Better player next season: Simmons or Doncic?

[XxIronChainzxX]

When he does it, then you can talk. But even then, the priority is winning.

Can't win when your best player is always-injured Latvian Bargnani and Hardaway junior.

You have already started with tearing down his teammates, just like you did when you called DeAndre Jordan(former all star) and Harrison Branes(champion) bums. I don't like when you have to use that in your argument.

I'm not on the Doncic bandwagon by any stretch but you don't actually think the corpse of DeAndre Jordan and Harrison Barnes are good players?

[KidAmazin]

I think Ben is gonna have a monster season.

[Darth Celtic]

Doncic was better last year, is 3 years younger, and can shoot beyond 10ft. No brainer.

[TheWitcher]

This board is so anti-Ben Simmons at times it's cringey.

One of the highest Bball IQs we've seen, got a max contract without having to shoot the ball.

Is starting to shoot the ball, and the rookie with a low ceiling and poor efficiency is being coveted more by some of you. It's ok Ben Simmons will shut a lot of its haters up, and Luka fans will come back down to earth.

[ATRAIN53]

Luka is a closer.
Like he wants the ball in his hands with the game on the line.

He was a rookie last year so he had to defer.
I do not expect him to defer this year.

The Luka step back 3 is a thing you cant defend.

Simmons can't even shoot a 3 yet.
and he SHOULD defer to Embiid - Joel is a better player who wants to be a closer.

[ballup]

Luka looks to be better, but not surprising given Luka was better last season too. He has a bigger half court arsenal, which has step backs, fadeaways, turnarounds, and floaters. Surprisingly, he drives more than Simmons. You wouldn't think that'd be the case given their physical attributes. Simmons has the defensive edge and it would have made this comparison tougher if he had the activity of a Lowry or a Smart.

Both players have things to work upon, but Luka's is more correctable. Losing weight can help him get to the rim even more often, not that he is bad at floaters. He already has proven he can be a good shooter so it's more about high level consistency. Those areas need fine tuning and once they do, that guy becomes dangerous

Part of Simmons' troubles is his lack of aggression in looking for his own. His PPP for transition and post ups are low not because he's bad finishing those playtypes, but passes out too often. It's not like he was a gun shy rookie not wanting to step on his teammates toes. He needs to dominate those areas

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[The_Hater]

Simmons can't even shoot a 3 yet.
and he SHOULD defer to Embiid - Joel is a better player who wants to be a closer.

Using a big man as a so-called closer rarely works in the NBA. You generally need a guy with a versatile dribble drive game which is why Butler was the Sixers closer last season.

I don’t think Simmons is that guy either, it’s too easy to make him a shooter, but to me that stands out ad the biggest weakness on the Sixers otherwise talented team.

[Bum Adebayo]

Actually, I think both are the types of player that peak early instead of late, both are early bloomers that for one reason or another, won't be significantly better than in their rookie season. Doncic had a refined skillset and a strong body from the beginning, and limited athleticism. Simmons had the whole package of explosiveness, body strength, ball handling, vision and passing from the beginning, and limited shooting (zero basically) and half court scoring. Maybe I'm wrong but I only expect incremental improvements from both.

[Oscar9992]

This board is so anti-Ben Simmons at times it's cringey.

One of the highest Bball IQs we've seen, got a max contract without having to shoot the ball.

Is starting to shoot the ball, and the rookie with a low ceiling and poor efficiency is being coveted more by some of you. It's ok Ben Simmons will shut a lot of its haters up, and Luka fans will come back down to earth.

How on earth Luka has low ceiling? Dude scored more in rookie season than Simmons probably ever will.

And Simmons has yet to score single 3 pointer in his NBA career. Giannis is like a Curry compared to him.

[tribulations]

Doncic now, or any day.

[Lalouie]

you can keep simmons. i know who i want my money on at the end of the game

[Johnny Bball]

Simmons until Luka makes the playoffs. I think Simmons learned an awful lot last year. Not shooting wise, just otherwise.

[UcanUwill]

I watched 55-60 Mavs games last season. Jordan was utter trash, G-league trash. Barnes does some things well and can be useful on some teams, but he played solely to pad his ppg, that's a fact, no way around it.and yeah, Kp is 18+7 who is Yao level injured, am I not right? I am.

I think that KP is overrated aswell, I just don't think we should criticise him even before he played 1 game for the Mavs. That just looks like a premade excuse for Doncic. Barnes doesn't strike me as a selfish player, but we can agree to disagree. I don't even think Doncic has to make the playoffs next year, I just think wee need to wait for him to play on a good team, before we compare him to proven players.

Barnes not selfish? We call him Bird Box Barnes on Mavs forum. And he absolutely has to make the playoffs next season coz that's what top players too. Kp not playing will probably help, Maxi is better.

G, you dont believe in Kristaps at all? I think he can be great.

[LipSkinMatter]

This board is so anti-Ben Simmons at times it's cringey.

One of the highest Bball IQs we've seen, got a max contract without having to shoot the ball.

Is starting to shoot the ball, and the rookie with a low ceiling and poor efficiency is being coveted more by some of you. It's ok Ben Simmons will shut a lot of its haters up, and Luka fans will come back down to earth.

Did you just say Doncic has a low ceiling? WUT

[UcanUwill]

This board is so anti-Ben Simmons at times it's cringey.

One of the highest Bball IQs we've seen, got a max contract without having to shoot the ball.

Is starting to shoot the ball, and the rookie with a low ceiling and poor efficiency is being coveted more by some of you. It's ok Ben Simmons will shut a lot of its haters up, and Luka fans will come back down to earth.

Did you just say Doncic has a low ceiling? WUT

Somehow he had low ceiling and maxed out since 17, every offseason the same talk, and he comes out every season much better than the last. People dont learn from the past at all with this kid. I get it, he is chubby, not overly athletic, its always more hopeful to fall in love with mega athlete and dream he gets skilled with time. The more raw you are, the more theres room for improvement, thats called hope.

[nedleeds]

Simmons won't get any better, Luka will be in shape. Luka played with absolute garbage teammates. Replace him on that 76ers team and they win it all last year.

Thanks o all-knowing Lord

I was going to say he'll actually shoot less and worse. Saying he'll just be the same seems kind. Tell us how he improved his jumper from y1 to y2 and y3? This is a guy who got a year off to do nothing but learn to shoot and didn't.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/simmobe01.html?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#per_minute

Why based on this going into year 4 is he going to get better oh great oracle? Would you not trade Simmons for Doncic in a second? Every Gm in the league certainly would.

[klemen4]

Doncic was, is and will always be a better player.

Simmons can not shot, no point for making this thread.

[gh123]

I think that KP is overrated aswell, I just don't think we should criticise him even before he played 1 game for the Mavs. That just looks like a premade excuse for Doncic. Barnes doesn't strike me as a selfish player, but we can agree to disagree. I don't even think Doncic has to make the playoffs next year, I just think wee need to wait for him to play on a good team, before we compare him to proven players.

Barnes not selfish? We call him Bird Box Barnes on Mavs forum. And he absolutely has to make the playoffs next season coz that's what top players too. Kp not playing will probably help, Maxi is better.

G, you dont believe in Kristaps at all? I think he can be great.

You need to play to get better, KP doesn't play, he's injured both during the season and in off-season. And his rebounding numbers are a tad better than Bargnani's, we've been horrible at rebounding since 2011, but that's ofc because Senile Rick runs his midget lineups 48 mpg, he'd run them 60 minutes if he could.

[UcanUwill]

Barnes not selfish? We call him Bird Box Barnes on Mavs forum. And he absolutely has to make the playoffs next season coz that's what top players too. Kp not playing will probably help, Maxi is better.

G, you dont believe in Kristaps at all? I think he can be great.

You need to play to get better, KP doesn't play, he's injured both during the season and in off-season. And his rebounding numbers are a tad better than Bargnani's, we've been horrible at rebounding since 2011, but that's ofc because Senile Rick runs his midget lineups 48 mpg, he'd run them 60 minutes if he could.

I know Kristaps was nagged with injuries, but recently it only been one injury, he might not be that injury prone as we think, I hope for the best. And plain rebounding numbers do not indicate if player improves teams rebounding. I am not saying Kristaps is necessarily that player, but there are bigs who dont rebound much but improve teams rebounding, so in a vacuum individual rebounding numbers barely matter.

[Duke4life831]

This board is so anti-Ben Simmons at times it's cringey.

One of the highest Bball IQs we've seen, got a max contract without having to shoot the ball.

Is starting to shoot the ball, and the rookie with a low ceiling and poor efficiency is being coveted more by some of you. It's ok Ben Simmons will shut a lot of its haters up, and Luka fans will come back down to earth.

Based on what?

3pt attempts:
2018: 11 attempts
2019: 6 attempts

Jumpers from 10+ ft:
2018: 187 attempts
2019: 87 attempts

Jumpers from 15+ ft:
2018: 55 attempts
2019: 28 attempts

His average shot distance in the playoffs last year was just under 3ft. Where is this "starting to shoot the ball" thing come from. All stats show he actually cut his jump shooting numbers in half from his rookie year, also while cutting down the attempts he also drastically dropped in percentages as well.