Better player next season: Simmons or Doncic?

[Bum Adebayo]

If Simmons really hasn't made his shooting a real priority until now that is a huge indictment of him and/or the Sixers organization. I mean I honestly find that hard to believe. How the hell could he not be working on perhaps the most important skill for any perimeter player?

How is it hard to believe? it is well known that he is an early bloomer who is extremely blessed to have the talent he has, he is doing the same things he was doing in high school, but he has never cared about improving at all, he is good enough to where his raw talent makes him an all star and gets him a max contract with only being in shape and barely training basketball skills. He would easily be a top 5 player in the NBA if he practiced hard.

[DreamTeam09]

How is he a true pg if he doesn't guard pgs??? You are the position you defend, not the position your coach puts you in on offense. When does Ben guard the PG??

I just said he guards 5 positions, which includes PG. Simmons and Richardson are our primary perimeter defenders.

Either way I agree with HBK that PG is a function of offense, hence Magic Johnson being universally recognized as a PG.

There are two problems with DreamTeam09's post.

(1) Simmons does guard point guards, and 3 other positions, depending on matchups. Was he a point guard in the Series against Brooklyn when he dominated Russel? Under "he is what he gaurds", is he a PG, SG, SF and PF all in the one game, or does it vary game to game what you classify him as?

(2) According to DreamTeam09 - Robert Covington is a point guard.

If Robert Covington covers the pg then who did Teague or Rose gaurd while they were on the court ?? Yes other players can gaurd multiple positions and not be at the primary position they are covering. Covington doesn't take any point gaurd duties either, To call Ben Simmons a true pg is a bit of a reach but that is semantics neway. Not something I'd really argue either, If he did cover the pg in the nets series then I can't really refute that, he didn't gaurd Lowry against the Raptors.

I guess this year he'll have to cover the pg full-time unless he takes the 2 and Richardson gaurds the point.

[mudsak]

No other player in the league has an asterisk next to their name quite like Simmons does.

He's such an incredibly talented player. Physically so gifted. He's the Giannis of point guards. "BUT"... He's a huge liability. Much of his production is balanced out by lack of ability to shoot the ball. And there is no other time that this is more evident than when it absolutely counts the most... in the playoffs.

I'm taking Doncic. Dude has game as smooth as butter. Meanest step-back in the league.

[nedleeds]

Barnes not selfish? We call him Bird Box Barnes on Mavs forum. And he absolutely has to make the playoffs next season coz that's what top players too. Kp not playing will probably help, Maxi is better.

G, you dont believe in Kristaps at all? I think he can be great.

You need to play to get better, KP doesn't play, he's injured both during the season and in off-season. And his rebounding numbers are a tad better than Bargnani's, we've been horrible at rebounding since 2011, but that's ofc because Senile Rick runs his midget lineups 48 mpg, he'd run them 60 minutes if he could.

If KP played the rest of his career with mittens he'd be better than Bargnani. He's the 2nd best rim deterrent / paint protector in the league behind Gobert.

[BoogieTime]

Simmons is a limited player

[nedleeds]

Thanks o all-knowing Lord

I was going to say he'll actually shoot less and worse. Saying he'll just be the same seems kind. Tell us how he improved his jumper from y1 to y2 and y3? This is a guy who got a year off to do nothing but learn to shoot and didn't.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/simmobe01.html?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#per_minute

Why based on this going into year 4 is he going to get better oh great oracle? Would you not trade Simmons for Doncic in a second? Every Gm in the league certainly would.

I wouldn't. Not in a second, an hour, or a month. Simmons isn't your normal type of player, which means he doesn't have your normal projected trajectory of growth. He usually focuses on one thing each offseason and adds it to his game (better ballhandling, strength, better defense). And from what we've seen this past offseason, which hasn't been the case in previous offseasons, is that he's shooting jumpshots. Is this the thing he adds this offseason? We shall see. Until then, I'll take the better, more athletic defender, who at the same time has similar numbers across the board with Luka.

It's fine to like Simmons but he's not close to Doncic. Luka is younger, a decent enough athlete for a 19 year old just turning 20. He played last year with a dumpster roster of Tim Hardaway, DJ, Dirks Corpse and other retreads.

You're alone in picking Simmons, your own front office would ship Simmons so fast his "shooting" sleeve would rip off. He'd be absolutely unstoppable with Embiid in pick and roll.

Watch on YouTube

[JB2]

I'm a huge fan of Simmons and think he's a special one, but to me, Luka is a generational player and I think given his ability to score, can actually be the number one guy on a championship team. Ben is no doubt the guy who can control championship games with his play making, like Luke can, but he can't take over carry/close which is what separates them.

[Rastas]

Simmons


Sent from my A5 using RealGM mobile app

[GeorgeMarcus]

It's fine to like Simmons but he's not close to Doncic. Luka is younger, a decent enough athlete for a 19 year old just turning 20. He played last year with a dumpster roster of Tim Hardaway, DJ, Dirks Corpse and other retreads.

You're alone in picking Simmons, your own front office would ship Simmons so fast his "shooting" sleeve would rip off. He'd be absolutely unstoppable with Embiid in pick and roll.

See, it's fine that you prefer Luka in the long run. That's a reasonable opinion to have. But the "not even close" talk is where you lose me very quickly. Last year Luka had the worst on/off of any Mavs rotation player besides Devin Harris. That fact is a lot more damning when you consider the lackluster talent he was surrounded by (which you referenced). PPG is really his only current advantage over Simmons, which wouldn't be the case if they switched teams last year. It's damn near impossible to argue that Doncic is the better player right now, but like I said it's reasonable to believe he will get there eventually.

[ITYSL]

im not the biggest simmons fan cause of his poor shooting but that voting result is ridiculously lopsided.

yall ignore defense

+1. I could see Luka winning this poll, but a 75-25 split? That's obscene. Especially when the Q is restricted to next season.

[gh123]

G, you dont believe in Kristaps at all? I think he can be great.

You need to play to get better, KP doesn't play, he's injured both during the season and in off-season. And his rebounding numbers are a tad better than Bargnani's, we've been horrible at rebounding since 2011, but that's ofc because Senile Rick runs his midget lineups 48 mpg, he'd run them 60 minutes if he could.

If KP played the rest of his career with mittens he'd be better than Bargnani. He's the 2nd best rim deterrent / paint protector in the league behind Gobert.

He is a great rim protector and it's cool, coz we haven't had one for a while. Him and Maxi should provide a lot of D at C position. But he has to do a lot more than that if he wants to (he doesn't) live up to that ridiculous contract.

[SerialChiller]

Doncic...i think he will continue to the better player the entirety of their careers. Hes already a leading man on a team. If BS was on the Mavs in his place having to lead a team offensively it wouldnt be pretty.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Would like to hear what you thinking he will realistically average next season and his %'s.

I hope/expect to see 1 of the following:
- willingness to shoot wide open 3's with regularity (at 30+%)
- higher volume of midrange, probably in the form of pull-up jumpers (think 25+% volume of shot attempts beyond 10 ft)

If he does both, I will be thrilled. #1 would be preferable imo. Forcing defenders to guard him on the perimeter would elevate his game/impact to another level. At the end of the day, any amount of progress is worthwhile progress. It's not often established All-Stars have such an obvious avenue to improve.

[76ersForLife]

Doncic...i think he will continue to the better player the entirety of their careers. Hes already a leading man on a team. If BS was on the Mavs in his place having to lead a team offensively it wouldnt be pretty.

We've already seen Simmons have to lead a team offensively when Embiid broke his eye socket last year.

The result? The 76ers only managed to win 17 straight games and he made Bellinelli and Ilyasova alot of money in free agency

[gorz]

Im not of the belief Doncic is face of the league type talent like some bill him but hes certainly better than Simmons and will continue going forward.

[Hipster Doofus]

Simmons isn't your normal type of player, which means he doesn't have your normal projected trajectory of growth. He usually focuses on one thing each offseason and adds it to his game (better ballhandling, strength, better defense).

This sounds like...every young player who ever played in the NBA.

What a unique specimen.

A 7 foot point guard? Yeah, absolutely like every other young player in the NBA...definitely not a unique specimen at all.

[Lost Angel]

I’m going with Luka — both now and in the future. can’t deny he’s going to be incredible.

[Hipster Doofus]

It's fine to like Simmons but he's not close to Doncic. Luka is younger, a decent enough athlete for a 19 year old just turning 20. He played last year with a dumpster roster of Tim Hardaway, DJ, Dirks Corpse and other retreads.

You're alone in picking Simmons, your own front office would ship Simmons so fast his "shooting" sleeve would rip off. He'd be absolutely unstoppable with Embiid in pick and roll.

Maybe that's why he averaged those numbers, because he was the focal point of the offense. Or lack thereof.

Simmons averaged higher rebounds and assists, while Luka only averaged 4 more points - while playing with corpses and retreads, as you say. While Simmons had a career year while playing with 3 other All-Star starters at the same time.

[mattao313]

Ill say Doncic imo Simmons is closer to a role player than a true star player. He cant really take over games and you certainly dont want to give him the ball at the end of games.

[notericjr]

Doncic...i think he will continue to the better player the entirety of their careers. Hes already a leading man on a team. If BS was on the Mavs in his place having to lead a team offensively it wouldnt be pretty.

why do people post things like this without doing any research or providing evidence?

Ben led the Sixers while Embiid was injured, to a historical win streak in his rookie year that took us from 8th seed to the 3rd seed

What has Luka done lol?

but but but bad teammates!