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Political Roundtable Part XXVI

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#821 » by UcanUwill » Tue Aug 6, 2019 6:52 pm

Ruzious wrote:The level of stupidity in Hannity's idea is almost unbelievable. https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/sean-hannity-force-schools-malls-054521306.html

Stupid to the point that I gotta wonder how Fox can justify keeping him on the air. Are there enough troglodytes out there that agree with him?


(R) will do anything to steer away your eyes from real problem - gun laws. They scapegoating video games, sorry, but these people are just pieces of ****, and I cant believe people still support that political party at this point. I dont believe it for a second they care about lives being saved as long as they pandering to NRA for their own selfish gain. Guess what, NRA does not care to make america safer, they only care about themselves, because they have gun fetish and just want their toys. As a man i get it, I was a boy. I liked playing win guns, but at some point you got to grow up and realize that ****** average Bill and Joe shouldnt have access to freaking rifles.

I have mental illness, I talked about this before, I am very empathetic person with strong morals i think, I would never hurt another person with a gun, but I would hurt myself probably. Point is, there are a lot of un diagnosed (if thats even matter) people with mental illness, living in a country where almost every household has a tool to kill. If you dont see a problem in that. you are an idiot, ban me for language, but I dont care, mass shootings happening every other week, but everyone keeps pretending kings have clothes on. How come sensible people in a country thats pretending to be progressive and western, do not unite, and take out NRA and these idiot politicians once and for all, it boggles my mind. Just keep watching Fox news and act video game is the problem, keep drinking the cool aid, playing Red dead surely made a sociopath to kill 30 people...
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#822 » by Ruzious » Tue Aug 6, 2019 7:18 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
Ruzious wrote:The level of stupidity in Hannity's idea is almost unbelievable. https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/sean-hannity-force-schools-malls-054521306.html

Stupid to the point that I gotta wonder how Fox can justify keeping him on the air. Are there enough troglodytes out there that agree with him?


(R) will do anything to steer away your eyes from real problem - gun laws. They scapegoating video games, sorry, but these people are just pieces of ****, and I cant believe people still support that political party at this point. I dont believe it for a second they care about lives being saved as long as they pandering to NRA for their own selfish gain. Guess what, NRA does care to make america safer, they only care about themselves, because they have gun fetish and just want their toys. As a man i get it, I was a boy. I liked playing win guns, but at some point you got to grow up and realize that ****** average Bill and Joe shouldnt have access to freaking rifles.

I have mental illness, I talked about this before, I am very empathetic person with strong morals i think, I would never hurt another person with a gun, but I would hurt myself probably. Point is, there are a lot of un diagnosed (if thats even matter) people with mental illness, living in a country where almost every household has a tool to kill. If you dont see a problem in that. you are an idiot, ban me for language, but I dont care, mass shootings happening every other week, but everyone keeps pretending kings have clothes on. How come sensible people in a country thats pretending to be progressive and western, do not unite, and take out NRA and these idiot politicians once and for all, it boggles my mind. Just keep watching Fox news and act video game is the problem, keep drinking the cool aid, playing Red dead surely made a sociopath to kill 30 people...

Ironically, Republicans have been efforting to cut mental health benefits from the ADA. They only want to stop cuts when there's another set of shootings - so they can find an alternative to more effective gun laws. Wait another month, and they'll no longer be for spending on mental health. Holy Dayton!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#823 » by Kanyewest » Tue Aug 6, 2019 8:41 pm

Hillary Clinton was against video games first!

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#824 » by Kanyewest » Tue Aug 6, 2019 9:27 pm

Warren is declared the winner of the debate winning 33%, Sanders with 18%, and Biden at 14%. https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/456309-democrats-pick-warren-as-winner-of-detroit-debates-poll

This poll has Biden(33), Sanders(19), and Warren(15)- one, two, and three. https://morningconsult.com/2020-democratic-primary/

All this one has Biden (32), Warren(21), and Sanders(15) one, two, and three. https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us08062019_ubrt73.pdf/
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#825 » by Pointgod » Tue Aug 6, 2019 9:34 pm

I was away of vacation for the past few weeks but good Lord the Republican Party is the problem in all of this. From enabling and amplifying Trump’s hate speech, to blocking any legislation for gun control, they’re a **** cancer on America and frankly the world. The 2020 election isn’t about policy anymore but whether America wants to be a country that’s solely driven by hate, division and violence.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#826 » by Pointgod » Tue Aug 6, 2019 9:41 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
Ruzious wrote:The level of stupidity in Hannity's idea is almost unbelievable. https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/sean-hannity-force-schools-malls-054521306.html

Stupid to the point that I gotta wonder how Fox can justify keeping him on the air. Are there enough troglodytes out there that agree with him?


(R) will do anything to steer away your eyes from real problem - gun laws. They scapegoating video games, sorry, but these people are just pieces of ****, and I cant believe people still support that political party at this point. I dont believe it for a second they care about lives being saved as long as they pandering to NRA for their own selfish gain. Guess what, NRA does care to make america safer, they only care about themselves, because they have gun fetish and just want their toys. As a man i get it, I was a boy. I liked playing win guns, but at some point you got to grow up and realize that ****** average Bill and Joe shouldnt have access to freaking rifles.

I have mental illness, I talked about this before, I am very empathetic person with strong morals i think, I would never hurt another person with a gun, but I would hurt myself probably. Point is, there are a lot of un diagnosed (if thats even matter) people with mental illness, living in a country where almost every household has a tool to kill. If you dont see a problem in that. you are an idiot, ban me for language, but I dont care, mass shootings happening every other week, but everyone keeps pretending kings have clothes on. How come sensible people in a country thats pretending to be progressive and western, do not unite, and take out NRA and these idiot politicians once and for all, it boggles my mind. Just keep watching Fox news and act video game is the problem, keep drinking the cool aid, playing Red dead surely made a sociopath to kill 30 people...


Powerful post. Honestly at this point the whole argument about who’s Progressive or Moderate is stupid. Everyone including Independents and Republicans who aren’t complete **** morons need to coalesce around Democratic candidates.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#827 » by pancakes3 » Tue Aug 6, 2019 10:46 pm

come november 2020, everyone should be rallying around the dem candidate but as of now we don't have a dem candidate, so really, isn't now the exact time to make delineations and decisions between the progressives and the centrists?

and i think the debates are proving that progressives are the ones with actual platforms. biden, as a centrist, doesn't really have much substance except his ties to the obama administration, and he's ready and willing to give that donald trump guy what for.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#828 » by dckingsfan » Wed Aug 7, 2019 2:06 pm

pancakes3 wrote:come november 2020, everyone should be rallying around the dem candidate but as of now we don't have a dem candidate, so really, isn't now the exact time to make delineations and decisions between the progressives and the centrists?

and i think the debates are proving that progressives are the ones with actual platforms. biden, as a centrist, doesn't really have much substance except his ties to the obama administration, and he's ready and willing to give that donald trump guy what for.

So, let's talk about the platforms and "big ideas" vs. "bad ideas".

The first progressive platform is the GND. It is awful - horrible at its very best. Basically politicizing climate change to ensure that we can't take the first steps forward. It is a big but also bad idea. (BTW, Beto's proposal is probably the best one out there right now)

M4A has become the thing. But most want a private insurance option as a transition. It just isn't going to pass otherwise. M4A is a good idea - but as it has been proposed by certain candidates it is unimplementable. (I think Mayor Pete has the implementable proposal right now)

Wealth tax sounds good - but it really isn't. See why Sweden and France killed their wealth taxes. What someone should be running on is fixing the tax code. Basically, you break it and then come up with something that is worse. (No candidate is taking on our debt and tax code right now)

Free college education sound amazing. But this is really just an unfunded Federal Mandate. And if everyone did take up free college it would blow out college system out of the water. (I like Beto's proposal on this as well).

But to your assertion that Biden doesn't have good ideas - well, I can't really argue with that one. And he certainly hasn't articulated them well either in writing or especially when he talks about them.

And violent agreement on this part - Trump really has to go.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#829 » by dckingsfan » Wed Aug 7, 2019 2:10 pm

Kanyewest wrote:Warren is declared the winner of the debate winning 33%, Sanders with 18%, and Biden at 14%. https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/456309-democrats-pick-warren-as-winner-of-detroit-debates-poll

This poll has Biden(33), Sanders(19), and Warren(15)- one, two, and three. https://morningconsult.com/2020-democratic-primary/

All this one has Biden (32), Warren(21), and Sanders(15) one, two, and three. https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us08062019_ubrt73.pdf/

Also:

Code: Select all

            POTUS Nomination - Politico   New Hampshire - Boston Globe   Texas - DMN/Emerson
Biden       33                            21                             28
Sanders     19                            17                             16
Warren      15                            14                             14
Harris       9                             8                              5
Buttigieg    6                             6                              7
O'Rourke     3                             0                             19
Yang         0                             1                              3
Booker       3                             1                              2
Castro       1                             0                              2

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/democratic_nomination_polls/
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#830 » by I_Like_Dirt » Wed Aug 7, 2019 3:38 pm

dckingsfan wrote:So, let's talk about the platforms and "big ideas" vs. "bad ideas".

The first progressive platform is the GND. It is awful - horrible at its very best. Basically politicizing climate change to ensure that we can't take the first steps forward. It is a big but also bad idea. (BTW, Beto's proposal is probably the best one out there right now)

M4A has become the thing. But most want a private insurance option as a transition. It just isn't going to pass otherwise. M4A is a good idea - but as it has been proposed by certain candidates it is unimplementable. (I think Mayor Pete has the implementable proposal right now)

Wealth tax sounds good - but it really isn't. See why Sweden and France killed their wealth taxes. What someone should be running on is fixing the tax code. Basically, you break it and then come up with something that is worse. (No candidate is taking on our debt and tax code right now)

Free college education sound amazing. But this is really just an unfunded Federal Mandate. And if everyone did take up free college it would blow out college system out of the water. (I like Beto's proposal on this as well).

But to your assertion that Biden doesn't have good ideas - well, I can't really argue with that one. And he certainly hasn't articulated them well either in writing or especially when he talks about them.

And violent agreement on this part - Trump really has to go.


Beto isn't bad. I likened him to Justin Trudeau before things really got rolling and feel more strongly about that comparison even more now. He isn't my favorite choice but wouldn't be the worst, either.

Buttgieg is quietly particularly astute in all of this. He's joined Warren and Harris as a top 3, in my view, those he also seems the least likely of the 3 to win.

I agree with you about nobody tackling the debt. It's a problem that's going to continue getting worse because voters see it as someone else's problem - X should pay more taxes or Y is bleeding the system of funds. I disagree that the environment and the debt need to be separated. They're absolutely linked. That doesn't mean don't be smart about it but not dealing with the environment sooner than later is going to be much, much worse for the debt than anything we can imagine.

Biden.... yeah... He seems to have this unshakeable 40% of voters who stick by him no matter how poor of a candidate he looks like, irrespective of anything that he says or does. Where have I seen that kind of 40% before? It's a concern, to be sure, because this is a different kind of 40% that isn't going to bring new voters into the fold that would have otherwise sat out. The Democrats desperately need to figure out how to talk about Obama rationally. He was a good president who did some things well and some things poorly. Their inability to even consider that he might not be perfect provides Biden with this protective shield that nobody has figured out how to crack yet.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#831 » by dckingsfan » Wed Aug 7, 2019 6:05 pm

Economist/YouGov - Wednesday, August 7

Seems like Warren is taking over the mantle on the progressive side and closing on Biden.

Code: Select all

Biden     25
Warren    18
Sanders   13
Harris     8
Buttigieg  7
O'Rourke   2
Booker     2
Yang       2
Gabbard    3
Castro     1
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#832 » by Kanyewest » Wed Aug 7, 2019 6:41 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Economist/YouGov - Wednesday, August 7

Seems like Warren is taking over the mantle on the progressive side and closing on Biden.

Code: Select all

Biden     25
Warren    18
Sanders   13
Harris     8
Buttigieg  7
O'Rourke   2
Booker     2
Yang       2
Gabbard    3
Castro     1

Although in the last YouGov/Economist poll before the debate, Biden was at 26 and Warren was at 20. Sanders is doing the same, which might be a moral victory for him. Mayor Pete got a small bump. Other candidates like Gabbard, Klobuchar, and Bullock are doing better. Harris lost support, she looks like the biggest loser from the debates.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#833 » by dckingsfan » Wed Aug 7, 2019 6:57 pm

Seems like one of either Sanders or Warren will have to step down - otherwise it will be Biden. I think if Harris steps down Biden would get a big bump.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#834 » by gtn130 » Wed Aug 7, 2019 7:13 pm

I'd short Biden. He has a huge name recognition advantage over most of the field, and lots of these polls being conducted align with who is most known among apoliticals. He's the Jeb Bush of this cycle IMO
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#835 » by Rand McNally » Wed Aug 7, 2019 8:09 pm

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#836 » by Ruzious » Wed Aug 7, 2019 8:09 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Seems like one of either Sanders or Warren will have to step down - otherwise it will be Biden. I think if Harris steps down Biden would get a big bump.

I don't think Sanders has any shot of beating Biden, but yeah - he could help Warren at least make it close against Biden. But is Sanders really willing to do that? And for all the reports on Harris scoring in the debates, she hasn't made significant headway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#837 » by pancakes3 » Wed Aug 7, 2019 9:10 pm

doesn't it ultimately come down to who the party chooses to advance? even if Sanders isn't willing, the party will make the decision for him like it did in 2016.

the question is whether there's enough of a movement for dem leadership to risk alienating centrists and independents, hoping that #nevertrump is enough of a galvanizing force to nominate someone progressive.

and to me, their response seems easy - no, it's not worth it. the only saving grace would be to have Biden keep sliding in the polls, and for Warren/Sanders to keep gaining ground and normalizing their policies that by the time it comes to nominate someone, those policies won't seem so anathema to centrists. the flip side of that playbook is for republicans to keep playing off cold-war-era biases and continue to throw out "socialist" like it's a dirty word.

take "free college" for instance. we've accepted the proposal that k12 education is a given, compulsory even. we also acknowledge that degree inflation is real, especially compared to the '60s when LBJ committed federal funding for k12 education (before that it was state funded). so coupling a commitment to provide free k12 education and degree inflation, free college seems to be a logically consistent extension. we can argue over financial feasibility (not really) but the plain proposition shouldn't be met with the vitriolic pushback that it sees.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#838 » by Ruzious » Wed Aug 7, 2019 9:18 pm

pancakes3 wrote:doesn't it ultimately come down to who the party chooses to advance? even if Sanders isn't willing, the party will make the decision for him like it did in 2016.

the question is whether there's enough of a movement for dem leadership to risk alienating centrists and independents, hoping that #nevertrump is enough of a galvanizing force to nominate someone progressive.

and to me, their response seems easy - no, it's not worth it. the only saving grace would be to have Biden keep sliding in the polls, and for Warren/Sanders to keep gaining ground and normalizing their policies that by the time it comes to nominate someone, those policies won't seem so anathema to centrists. the flip side of that playbook is for republicans to keep playing off cold-war-era biases and continue to throw out "socialist" like it's a dirty word.

take "free college" for instance. we've accepted the proposal that k12 education is a given, compulsory even. we also acknowledge that degree inflation is real, especially compared to the '60s when LBJ committed federal funding for k12 education (before that it was state funded). so coupling a commitment to provide free k12 education and degree inflation, free college seems to be a logically consistent extension. we can argue over financial feasibility (not really) but the plain proposition shouldn't be met with the vitriolic pushback that it sees.

Things are not logical if they're not financially feasible, and the unwillingness to face that is a logical irritation with some of the Democratic candidates.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#839 » by pancakes3 » Wed Aug 7, 2019 9:54 pm

Ruzious wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:doesn't it ultimately come down to who the party chooses to advance? even if Sanders isn't willing, the party will make the decision for him like it did in 2016.

the question is whether there's enough of a movement for dem leadership to risk alienating centrists and independents, hoping that #nevertrump is enough of a galvanizing force to nominate someone progressive.

and to me, their response seems easy - no, it's not worth it. the only saving grace would be to have Biden keep sliding in the polls, and for Warren/Sanders to keep gaining ground and normalizing their policies that by the time it comes to nominate someone, those policies won't seem so anathema to centrists. the flip side of that playbook is for republicans to keep playing off cold-war-era biases and continue to throw out "socialist" like it's a dirty word.

take "free college" for instance. we've accepted the proposal that k12 education is a given, compulsory even. we also acknowledge that degree inflation is real, especially compared to the '60s when LBJ committed federal funding for k12 education (before that it was state funded). so coupling a commitment to provide free k12 education and degree inflation, free college seems to be a logically consistent extension. we can argue over financial feasibility (not really) but the plain proposition shouldn't be met with the vitriolic pushback that it sees.

Things are not logical if they're not financially feasible, and the unwillingness to face that is a logical irritation with some of the Democratic candidates.


Bernie's plan costs $47 billion and Trump just approved a budget that sets the FY2020 military budget at 738 billion an increase of 52 billion from FY 2019 so it's just really hard to take "financial feasibility" arguments seriously in today's era of military spending.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#840 » by Kanyewest » Wed Aug 7, 2019 10:28 pm

Ruzious wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Seems like one of either Sanders or Warren will have to step down - otherwise it will be Biden. I think if Harris steps down Biden would get a big bump.

I don't think Sanders has any shot of beating Biden, but yeah - he could help Warren at least make it close against Biden. But is Sanders really willing to do that? And for all the reports on Harris scoring in the debates, she hasn't made significant headway.


I could see Bernie dropping out if he's in 3rd (same applies to Warren as well).

Harris did ok in the first debates but screwed up the optics by having t-shirts ready after her attack on Biden. But yeah, not so much in the 2nd debates where she was cut off guard by Tulsi. That being said, I think Harris will come in more prepared by attacks, especially by Tulsi. But she will go only as far as Biden falls and even then she has to worry about Mayor Pete, Booker, etc taking away the moderate vote.

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