Better player next season: Simmons or Doncic?

[ballup]

He had a bad series against Boston as a rookie, it happens. At least he was in the playoffs. He led the team to 17 straight wins to help them get there when Joel fractured his orbital.

Not to mention, Luka would have been 3rd/4th scoring option on the Sixers this year too.

That 17 straight wins stat is straight up a lie. It was only 10 straight wins and they faced a bunch of tanking teams at the end of the season. Only 2 games were against good teams

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Straight up lie? They won 17 games in a row and Embiid was out for most of them. Not at all a lie and weird for you to frame it that way.

You said Simmons led them to 17 straight wins when Embiid got his eye injury. Embiid injured his eye on the 74th game of the regular season. Tell me how, in an 82 win season, can you rattle off 17 straight wins when you already played 73 games.

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[JAYZGOAT]

Truly, is this one worth arguing? How about we return to this when Simmons develops a consistent shot?

I could easily say how about we return when Luka learns how to play defense better or makes the playoffs.

[JAYZGOAT]

And again, despite not having a jumpshot, Luka only averaged 5 more points as the #1 option on worse effiencency.

[GeorgeMarcus]

That 17 straight wins stat is straight up a lie. It was only 10 straight wins and they faced a bunch of tanking teams at the end of the season. Only 2 games were against good teams

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Straight up lie? They won 17 games in a row and Embiid was out for most of them. Not at all a lie and weird for you to frame it that way.

You said Simmons led them to 17 straight wins when Embiid got his eye injury. Embiid injured his eye on the 74th game of the regular season. Tell me how, in an 82 win season, can you rattle off 17 straight wins when you already played 73 games.

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Oh so we are removing the games Embiid played? That's fine too but that's not what I was going for. Simmons led the Sixers to winning 17 straight games, which clearly wasn't a lie. This just happened last year- I'm not pulling one over on anyone

Talking about weak schedule/tanking teams is weak. Good teams rarely win 10 games in a row regardless of variance in SOS.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Truly, is this one worth arguing? How about we return to this when Simmons develops a consistent shot?

Simmons: more efficient, better defensively, better rebounder, more assists on lower usage, better RPM, played for a winning team, and unlike last year was a clear positive in the playoffs

Anti-Simmons crowd: "can't shoot"

Rinse and repeat

[ballup]

Oh shut up. This is the NBA. It's impressive regardless. You'd be creaming your pants if Luka could lead his team to 10 straight wins. Luka should lead his team to the playoffs first. There's no excuse why they shouldn't be in the playoffs this year

It really isn't that impressive and fact checking is important. I'm fine with people throwing out opinions like "Luka has a great shooting touch" or "Simmons has a great BBIQ". It's another thing to make a ridiculous lie for the sake of an argument.

You're expecting the Mavericks to go to the playoffs? We don't even know if Porzingis is back to normal or will even play the full season. The Mavs have a bunch of nice role players, and I like most of them, but they're not great ones and there's not much raw talent outside of their big 2. There's 10 other playoff contending teams in the west so I'm not sure where this playoff expectancy is coming from

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17 straight wins as the clear focal point on offense is impressive no matter how you slice it. I don't think there was one shot creator on the team during the streak. Apologies for telling you to shut up though, that was out of line.


And yes, if the Mavs aren't at least fighting for a playoff spot in the west u will be very disappointed. Luka is being touted as a superstar, or atleast trending to an elite player. Superstars and elite players get their teams to the playoffs. Until he does, these Ben Simmons comparisons seem a bit premature

Idk why you are settling MY expections for the Mavericks. Here are the 10 teams I see are better:

Warriors
Nuggets
Blazers
Rockets
Jazz
Spurs
Clippers
Kings
Lakers
Pelicans

I can see the Mavs rank higher than the Pelicans and maybe one team gets devastated by injuries/team implosion. A healthy and star like KP could get them in the hunt, but that status does heavily depend on KP. You need a good team to make it to the playoffs in this loaded west. Someone has to lose in the conference. It's mathematically improbable to have 11 teams with 45+ wins in the same conference.



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[tv24lakers]

Truly, is this one worth arguing? How about we return to this when Simmons develops a consistent shot?

I could easily say how about we return when Luka learns how to play defense better or makes the playoffs.

You're not going to find me arguing against Simmons abilities. Both players are extremely gifted, but Doncic has the slightest of edge given his ability to stretch the floor.

[Archx]

And again, despite not having a jumpshot, Luka only averaged 5 more points as the #1 option on worse effiencency.

What are you on about? Embiid publicly complained when Ben was the nr1 option. Ben also was nothing special when he didn't have the support of Philly's best players, Embiid included. But even then, your best argument is his defense, which wasn't such a big factor vs TOR anyway...

Also, 5pts difference in average is quite a lot when you're going into 20+ pts range. If it was so easy, everyone would be averaging that. And at the end of the day, you're still comparing basically a rookie with a player of 3 years of experience playing and training with NBA talent.

At least you can somehow hide Luka on defense, but you can not hide Ben's lack of shooting when defense just collapses the paint and leaves him wide open. Also, Luka is good off ball defender, so it's not as bad as people make it to be anyway...

[JN61]

To me Doncic was already better player last year and I'm expecting big jump this year. Can Simmons do that? We will see.

[ballup]

Straight up lie? They won 17 games in a row and Embiid was out for most of them. Not at all a lie and weird for you to frame it that way.

You said Simmons led them to 17 straight wins when Embiid got his eye injury. Embiid injured his eye on the 74th game of the regular season. Tell me how, in an 82 win season, can you rattle off 17 straight wins when you already played 73 games.

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Oh so we are removing the games Embiid played? That's fine too but that's not what I was going for. Simmons led the Sixers to winning 17 straight games, which clearly wasn't a lie. This just happened last year- I'm not pulling one over on anyone

Talking about weak schedule/tanking teams is weak. Good teams rarely win 10 games in a row regardless of variance in SOS.

Saying

He led the team to 17 straight wins to help them get there when Joel fractured his orbital.

is a lot different from

He led the team to 17 straight wins leading into the playoffs with sidelined for 7 of those games.

The former implys that Embiid was injured for all 17 games.

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[JN61]

And again, despite not having a jumpshot, Luka only averaged 5 more points as the #1 option on worse effiencency.

Only averaged 5 more points? What in the world... That is huge difference in terms of scoring.

[GeorgeMarcus]

You said Simmons led them to 17 straight wins when Embiid got his eye injury. Embiid injured his eye on the 74th game of the regular season. Tell me how, in an 82 win season, can you rattle off 17 straight wins when you already played 73 games.

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Oh so we are removing the games Embiid played? That's fine too but that's not what I was going for. Simmons led the Sixers to winning 17 straight games, which clearly wasn't a lie. This just happened last year- I'm not pulling one over on anyone

Talking about weak schedule/tanking teams is weak. Good teams rarely win 10 games in a row regardless of variance in SOS.

Saying

He led the team to 17 straight wins to help them get there when Joel fractured his orbital.

is a lot different from

He led the team to 17 straight wins leading into the playoffs with sidelined for 7 of those games.

The former implys that Embiid was injured for all 17 games.

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I can see how it would be interpreted that way but it literally happened last year. We all (or at least most of us) know what happened. To call it an outrageous lie is, well, outrageous. It's not like Ben wasn't vital to the 7 games we won with Embiid.

[GeorgeMarcus]

And again, despite not having a jumpshot, Luka only averaged 5 more points as the #1 option on worse effiencency.

Only averaged 5 more points? What in the world... That is huge difference in terms of scoring.

Butler averaged 23.9 for the Bulls 2 years ago, 22.2 for the TWolves last year, and 18.2 for the Sixers this year. He didn't average 5.7 less than in Chicago because he got worse. It's a product of team construct. Ben's efficiency advantage essentially washes away Luka's volume advantage (disregarding other aspects of the game which favor Ben).

[JN61]

And again, despite not having a jumpshot, Luka only averaged 5 more points as the #1 option on worse effiencency.

Only averaged 5 more points? What in the world... That is huge difference in terms of scoring.

Butler averaged 23.9 for the Bulls 2 years ago, 22.2 for the TWolves last year, and 18.2 for the Sixers this year. He didn't average 5.7 less than in Chicago because he got worse. It's a product of team construct. Ben's efficiency advantage essentially washes away Luka's volume advantage (disregarding other aspects of the game which favor Ben).

Could Simmons be the first option scorer for Sixers?

[GeorgeMarcus]

Only averaged 5 more points? What in the world... That is huge difference in terms of scoring.

Butler averaged 23.9 for the Bulls 2 years ago, 22.2 for the TWolves last year, and 18.2 for the Sixers this year. He didn't average 5.7 less than in Chicago because he got worse. It's a product of team construct. Ben's efficiency advantage essentially washes away Luka's volume advantage (disregarding other aspects of the game which favor Ben).

Could Simmons be the first option scorer for Sixers?

Put it this way- he would have been the leading scorer on the Mavs. In an ideal setting he's in a secondary scoring role so he can focus on everything else.

[ballup]

Oh so we are removing the games Embiid played? That's fine too but that's not what I was going for. Simmons led the Sixers to winning 17 straight games, which clearly wasn't a lie. This just happened last year- I'm not pulling one over on anyone

Talking about weak schedule/tanking teams is weak. Good teams rarely win 10 games in a row regardless of variance in SOS.

Saying

He led the team to 17 straight wins to help them get there when Joel fractured his orbital.

is a lot different from

He led the team to 17 straight wins leading into the playoffs with sidelined for 7 of those games.

The former implys that Embiid was injured for all 17 games.

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I can see how it would be interpreted that way but it literally happened last year. We all (or at least most of us) know what happened. To call it an outrageous lie is, well, outrageous. It's not like Ben wasn't vital to the 7 games we won with Embiid.

10 games missed versus 17 games missed is pretty significant in this context. It's fine to have an error of 1 or 2 games, but when you report something erroneous by 70%, that is outrageous.


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[GeorgeMarcus]

Saying



is a lot different from



The former implys that Embiid was injured for all 17 games.

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I can see how it would be interpreted that way but it literally happened last year. We all (or at least most of us) know what happened. To call it an outrageous lie is, well, outrageous. It's not like Ben wasn't vital to the 7 games we won with Embiid.

10 games missed versus 17 games missed is pretty significant in this context. It's fine to have an error of 1 or 2 games, but when you report something erroneous by 70%, that is outrageous.

Semantics. It wasn't an "error" you knew what I meant...

[Misteclipse]

Quite obviously Ben Simmons. Far superior defensive player.

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Quite obviously Luka. Far superior offensive player.

(see how that works?)

Simmons is a far superior offensive player than Doncic is a defender. That's the obvious difference. Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year, Ben despite his inability to shoot, is a far better finisher, with a better handle, ability to get inside, and obviously a superior athlete.

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[ballup]

I can see how it would be interpreted that way but it literally happened last year. We all (or at least most of us) know what happened. To call it an outrageous lie is, well, outrageous. It's not like Ben wasn't vital to the 7 games we won with Embiid.

10 games missed versus 17 games missed is pretty significant in this context. It's fine to have an error of 1 or 2 games, but when you report something erroneous by 70%, that is outrageous.

Semantics. It wasn't an "error" you knew what I meant...

No I clearly didn't know what you meant or else we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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[dickfox]

Doncic was better last year and will be better this year because Simmons is playing handball and not basketball with that 0% jumper.