trex_8063 wrote:FrogBros4Life wrote:trex_8063 wrote:1st ballot - '95 David Robinson
The near-reality as I see is that David Robinson was asked [by the Spurs] to be Bill Russell on defense and simultaneously be Shaquille O'Neal on offense.......and he kinda takes some flack for not being up to the task [primarily in the playoffs]. But realistically, if he'd been consistently capable of maintaining his rs standard of offensive performance and efficiency during the playoffs, we'd have been discussing him in the top 3 positions of this project. So I don't think it's off base to give him some consideration now around #10. This version of Robinson anchored a -2.9 rDRTG (5th/27) with a principle cast [in descending order of minutes played] of Avery Johnson (scrappy and energetic, but seriously undersized even for a PG; mediocre defender overall), Sean Elliott (mediocre defender), Vinny Del Negro (probably slightly weak defensively, iirc), Chuck Person (a pinch past prime, never a good defender anyway), Dennis Rodman (erratic defensively [awful in the Houston series, fwiw], and missed 33 games), and JR Reid, Terry Cummings, post-prime Doc Rivers (Rivers probably the only one of those three I'd say was passable good defensively [edit: +/- maybe Cummings]).
This version of Robinson simultaneously anchored a +3.4 rORTG (5th/27) with the aforementioned cast; they won 62 games (+5.90 SRS) overall. Made it to the WCF where Dennis Rodman had a total [and very public] meltdown, and the Spurs lost the series to Houston (with Hakeem in God-mode) in six games (outscored by a grand total of 10 pts in the entire series). Typically stated as Hakeem owning DRob and making him a helpless play-thing, though it's rarely acknowledged that Hakeem [because of how their offense and roster was structured] largely enjoyed single coverage (by Robinson), while Robinson was largely guarded by Olajuwon + 1-2 friends.
It's rarely acknowledged that DRob's cast [which had shot 37.5% from beyond the arc in the rs] somewhat crapped the bed shooting just 31.9% in this series (and did I mention they were only outscored by 10 points total in the entire series?); and again Rodman's meltdown and poor play is rarely given light of day in the construction of the usual narrative.
jsia, I think he deserves a look around now.
1.) You say that David Robinson was asked by the Spurs to be both Bill Russell on defense and Shaq on offense. I think that's a true statement.
Do you also feel that is true of both Ewing and Olajuwon or do you think Robinson's responsibilities were somehow more grueling? You also say you think Robinson receives some undue flack for this (I can also agree with this). Do you think Ewing's flack for that same situation is equally undue? more? less? Or do you feel in his case it's flack that has merit?
To a degree, yes. Were they both [like Robinson] asked to be the anchor on BOTH sides of the court? Yes. Did they both shoulder similar usage? Yes (peak levels, trough levels [during primes], and avg prime levels are all extremely similar for all three players).
However, I would say in terms of standard or
precedent set during the rs, Robinson set the bar higher than the other two (and thus had further to fall in the playoffs). This is why [as I'd noted previously] that even with his infamous playoff struggles, Robinson's avg offensive performance
in the playoffs from '93-'96 was similar to [even marginally better than] what rs Patrick Ewing was averaging from '92-'96.
To further qualify that Robinson was "setting the bar higher": If we compare rs Robinson ('90-'98) to rs Ewing ('89-'97) and rs Olajuwon ('89-'97), Robinson [despite basically same USG%] has slightly higher scoring volume by way of better shooting efficiency (because he's got the same mpg avg as Ewing, which is actually 1 mpg LESS than Hakeem in this sample); and it can't be fully explained away with pace, either, as even in per 100 possession terms he comes out first in pts. He also has slightly higher volume of orpg, same or more apg, and the lowest topg.....
'89-'97 rs Ewing: 24.4 ppg @ 56.1% TS, 2.5 orpg, 2.3 apg, 3.2 topg, 108 ORtg
'89-'97 rs Hakeem: 24.9 ppg @ 55.8% TS, 3.2 orpg, 3.0 apg, 3.3 topg, 109 ORtg
'90-'98 rs Robinson: 25.1 ppg @ 59.0% TS, 3.4 orpg, 3.0 apg, 2.9 topg, 118 ORtg
It's certainly not a huge difference, but there's no denying Robinson appears as the most statistically dominant offensive player in their respective primes during the rs (and note that's even with including some of his post-injury years). And this is arguably reflected in the performance of their respective team offenses:
Ewing's worst team offense ('89-'97): -2.3 rORTG
Ewing's best team offense ('89-'97): +3.3 rORTG
Ewing's avg team offense ('89-'97): -0.4 rORTG
Hakeem's worst team offense ('89-'97): -3.3 rORTG
Hakeem's best team offense (""): +2.1 rORTG
Hakeem's avg team offense (""): -0.17 rORTG
Robinson's worst team offense ('90-'98): -3.4 rORTG* (*that's '97 when he played just 6 games; outside of that year the worst is a -1.2 rORTG)
Robinson's best team offense ('90-'98): +4.1 rORTG
Robinson's avg team offense ('90-'98): +0.66 rORTG* (*if we removed '97 from the sample, the avg was +1.03 rORTG).
From the above one might infer that the Spur's success was more closely tied to the offensive performance of Robinson and the team in general. So from that standpoint, one could suggest that slightly more was "expected" of Robinson on the offensive end than was "expected" of the other two.
He didn't live up to that expectation, I'm not denying that, which is why they almost never lived up to their rs standards.
For completeness, the playoff avg's of Ewing and Robinson [omitting Hakeem at this point, as he was the clear best post-season performer and I was never at any point arguing Robinson over him anyway] in the years stated above....
'89-'97 Ewing ps: 22.6 ppg @ 52.7% TS, 2.6 orpg, 2.4 apg, 2.8 topg, 106 ORtg
'90-'98 Robinson ps: 23.4 ppg @ 54.9% TS, 3.6 orpg, 2.9 apg, 2.9 topg, 112 ORtg
So Robinson has the larger drop-off from his rs averages noted above, but still [on average] appears like the superior offensive playoff performer. But it still just wasn't enough, based on the expectation he'd set for himself by his titan-level rs performance. It's true he had struggles performing against strong defenses and was never a true ideal offensive center-piece. He'd likely have done better even in a 1a/1b role offensively (particularly if paired with a
perimeter-oriented 1a/1b option), or at least having one other truly reliable 2nd-option scorer; but he never had opportunity until Duncan came along (and just one year where Robinson was post-injury and 32 years old----arguably not even in his true prime anymore----after which Robinson was
clearly past his prime). Sean Elliott or a post-prime Dale Ellis were the best he ever had prior to that.
