Better player next season: Simmons or Doncic?

[Archx]

LMAO at the "defense argument". The last thing you're going to worry about, if you have Luka on the team, is defense. Mavs towards the end of the season weren't so bad because Luka was not TOP defender but because the whole team structure was simply bad. And there is basically only 1 superstar that comes to my mind who can really play good defense and is a killer on offense and that's Kawhi. LBJ either lost a step or has become lazy...

Ben simply can not shoot and for a player who wants to be a guard and has a high usage rate, it's simply terrible. Rondo comes to mind ( great defender with non existing outside shot), but it worked in Boston because he had KG, Allen and Pierce around him, all good/great shooters ( including KG ). Ben had amazing shooters around him ( including Embiid ) and at the end, it didn't work. So why Philly couldn't do anything so far if Ben is so amazing on defense and was still surrounded with amazing talent?

I would much rather compare Ben with Rondo than with Luka. Unless people here are too young to remember how Rondo was guarded early on when he had no jumpshot. But Boston still made it work. I think that Philly could be much better if they brought in a true PG who can shoot and who can also stretch the floor and simply use Ben as a PF/SF slasher who can effectively play under the rim aswell. But him playing from the outside, so far, wasn't so productive.

[Bob8]

My bad Slovenia. The point is the same. He has the whole summer to work on his game. And if the Mavs want to win, Luka has to play better D.

Again: Provide stats backing your claim of his terrible defense

Did you watch a Mavs game last year. Carlisle hid him on defense the entire game.

He’s very good rebounder and solid team defender. You don’t need more from your first opinion in offense and primary facilitator. Team around Luka should be build with shooters and defenders. He’s big and strong enough to be positive team defender eventually, but he will never guard best scorers and he doesn’t need to. All this talk how Luka is a bad defender and how his career depends on it is a bull. His career will mostly depend on how good shooter can he become. Nobody is stopping 6’8”, 230, Pg with great vision, who is near elite shooter. Mavs need someone to guard Pg and a rim protector. Wright and KP look pretty solid options.

[ILikeLollies]

Ben simply can not shoot and for a player who wants to be a guard and has a high usage rate, it's simply terrible. Rondo comes to mind ( great defender with non existing outside shot), but it worked in Boston because he had KG, Allen and Pierce around him, all good/great shooters ( including KG ). Ben had amazing shooters around him ( including Embiid ) and at the end, it didn't work. So why Philly couldn't do anything so far if Ben is so amazing on defense and was still surrounded with amazing talent?

.

I mean seriously.

[PennSports]

It's fine to like Simmons but he's not close to Doncic. Luka is younger, a decent enough athlete for a 19 year old just turning 20. He played last year with a dumpster roster of Tim Hardaway, DJ, Dirks Corpse and other retreads.

You're alone in picking Simmons, your own front office would ship Simmons so fast his "shooting" sleeve would rip off. He'd be absolutely unstoppable with Embiid in pick and roll.

Maybe that's why he averaged those numbers, because he was the focal point of the offense. Or lack thereof.

Simmons averaged higher rebounds and assists, while Luka only averaged 4 more points - while playing with corpses and retreads, as you say. While Simmons had a career year while playing with 3 other All-Star starters at the same time.

It's the opposite, Luka put up those numbers while being the sole focus of opposing defenses. Simmons puts his offensive numbers up being completely ignored as defenders play 8 feet off of him, terrified of Reddick and Embiid. Simmons for all his defensive chops is a 5th wheel in half-court offense.

Trading him to a team where he could play center would do wonders for him since he so far has shown no intention to shoot a basketball.

so opponents pack the entire paint to stop ben from getting to the hoop but he still does at a good and efficient rate. Are you sure you aren't arguing in favor of Ben? Teams create a wall to try and prevent him from driving to the hoop but he is also somehow ignored? What are you even trying to say my man lol

[Bum Adebayo]

LMAO at the "defense argument". The last thing you're going to worry about, if you have Luka on the team, is defense. Mavs towards the end of the season weren't so bad because Luka was not TOP defender but because the whole team structure was simply bad. And there is basically only 1 superstar that comes to my mind who can really play good defense and is a killer on offense and that's Kawhi. LBJ either lost a step or has become lazy...

Ben simply can not shoot and for a player who wants to be a guard and has a high usage rate, it's simply terrible. Rondo comes to mind ( great defender with non existing outside shot), but it worked in Boston because he had KG, Allen and Pierce around him, all good/great shooters ( including KG ). Ben had amazing shooters around him ( including Embiid ) and at the end, it didn't work. So why Philly couldn't do anything so far if Ben is so amazing on defense and was still surrounded with amazing talent?

I would much rather compare Ben with Rondo than with Luka. Unless people here are too young to remember how Rondo was guarded early on when he had no jumpshot. But Boston still made it work. I think that Philly could be much better if they brought in a true PG who can shoot and who can also stretch the floor and simply use Ben as a PF/SF slasher who can effectively play under the rim aswell. But him playing from the outside, so far, wasn't so productive.

Stopped reading there.

[mowcrowbar]

Luka is a already better player and he hasnt even repeated his class twice.

[BoardCrusher]

Wow................is this Luka's mums burner account?

To be fair non-existent jump shot is bigger flaw than mediocre defense in modern NBA. Howard, Shaq and Giannis are rare exceptions and Ben is nothing like them. And Giannis actually score 40-50 3 pointers every year.

Luka’s defense is not mediocre. It’s downright bad. Perhaps he will spend the summer and fix it. Given Croatia isn’t in the World Cup it’s possible.

Something tells me your knowledge of basketball is on the same level as your geography

[Pachinko_]

Seems to me Luka played good D in short stretches when he wanted to. Looks like a question of conditioning to me, he needs to extend those stretches but first he has to have the legs & lungs for it.

Anyway at least that's workable. I'd rather that than a guy like Jabari that you have to convince that defense actually exists and is there for a reason.

[nedleeds]

Maybe that's why he averaged those numbers, because he was the focal point of the offense. Or lack thereof.

Simmons averaged higher rebounds and assists, while Luka only averaged 4 more points - while playing with corpses and retreads, as you say. While Simmons had a career year while playing with 3 other All-Star starters at the same time.

It's the opposite, Luka put up those numbers while being the sole focus of opposing defenses. Simmons puts his offensive numbers up being completely ignored as defenders play 8 feet off of him, terrified of Reddick and Embiid. Simmons for all his defensive chops is a 5th wheel in half-court offense.

Trading him to a team where he could play center would do wonders for him since he so far has shown no intention to shoot a basketball.

so opponents pack the entire paint to stop ben from getting to the hoop but he still does at a good and efficient rate. Are you sure you aren't arguing in favor of Ben? Teams create a wall to try and prevent him from driving to the hoop but he is also somehow ignored? What are you even trying to say my man lol

Nobody is packing or walling anything against Simmons, did you watch a 6ers game? They're packing the paint because of Embiid, he's a turnover machine when doubled. Don't confuse not being guarded with a wall.

[gh123]

Ben has had the most stacked squad in the East and hasn't done anything with it, that's Ben, he's not good

[gh123]

Biid, Butler, Harris, tons of shooters and specialists around you, how do you still lose? That's coz you're no-impact 11+7 player.

[Sactowndog]

Again: Provide stats backing your claim of his terrible defense

Did you watch a Mavs game last year. Carlisle hid him on defense the entire game.

but thats the thing about being a bad defender, its easier to hide. If Luka can gaurd the 4th or 5 best player on the other team and not negatively impact his teams defense, thats all you really need from a 1st offensive option

That’s true but it doesn’t make him a average defender. He is still bad.

[Pg81]

Luka and it's not even close

Let me guess. Is it because Ben can’t shoot?

That and he already led a team to a title winning MvP while being the youngest, but I am sure that was just a fluke that the guy who has been polishing his skills at a professional level for the past odd 3-4 years comes into the league polished beyond anything Simmons was when he was at the same age.

[Swish1906]

Did you watch a Mavs game last year. Carlisle hid him on defense the entire game.

but thats the thing about being a bad defender, its easier to hide. If Luka can gaurd the 4th or 5 best player on the other team and not negatively impact his teams defense, thats all you really need from a 1st offensive option

That’s true but it doesn’t make him a average defender. He is still bad.

Third time you claim it without providing anything except "did you see Mavs games, Rick was hiding him"

Quality posting, gratulations.

[reflex35]

Simmons does have a higher ceiling but if I was betting I would put my money on Luka all day long.
It is just more believable.
If he improves his 3pt percentage a bit (a few points - and he just need not to take stupid shots at the end of the clock-time) that will add another 2-4 points to his points per game and you have a 25 pts, 6 assist, 8 reb guy... Without changing anything...
How many of those guys are in NBA? We are talking ALL-NBA with those stats.
We all always think and compare these guys to elite of the elite.
But the reality is that even if Luka improves a tiny bit he will be an Allstar minimum.
Simmons has a higher ceiling but I doubt that he can become a good shooter in a year or two. Therefore he will be limited until that time comes or if it will ever come.
NEXT YEAR LUKA FOR SURE.

[Calamity_Cometh]

Doncic exceeded all expectations for me.

If Simmons could develop just a midrange pullup, like LaMarcus Aldridge type of game, I would take him.

I'm not sure he will, so give me Doncic. Both of them have such high ceilings but Doncic is just more developed.

[Pg81]

Simmons does have a higher ceiling but if I was betting I would put my money on Luka all day long.
It is just more believable.
If he improves his 3pt percentage a bit (a few points - and he just need not to take stupid shots at the end of the clock-time) that will add another 2-4 points to his points per game and you have a 25 pts, 6 assist, 8 reb guy... Without changing anything...
How many of those guys are in NBA? We are talking ALL-NBA with those stats.
We all always think and compare these guys to elite of the elite.
But the reality is that even if Luka improves a tiny bit he will be an Allstar minimum.
Simmons has a higher ceiling but I doubt that he can become a good shooter in a year or two. Therefore he will be limited until that time comes or if it will ever come.
NEXT YEAR LUKA FOR SURE.

I see no reason to believe that Simmons has a higher ceiling than Luka.

[Pg81]

double post

[reflex35]

Simmons does have a higher ceiling but if I was betting I would put my money on Luka all day long.
It is just more believable.
If he improves his 3pt percentage a bit (a few points - and he just need not to take stupid shots at the end of the clock-time) that will add another 2-4 points to his points per game and you have a 25 pts, 6 assist, 8 reb guy... Without changing anything...
How many of those guys are in NBA? We are talking ALL-NBA with those stats.
We all always think and compare these guys to elite of the elite.
But the reality is that even if Luka improves a tiny bit he will be an Allstar minimum.
Simmons has a higher ceiling but I doubt that he can become a good shooter in a year or two. Therefore he will be limited until that time comes or if it will ever come.
NEXT YEAR LUKA FOR SURE.

I see no reason to believe that Simmons has a higher ceiling than Luka.

He is faster, more athletic, jumps higher.
He is just a better athlete overall.
He as well is deadly on open floor and he is better in that than Luka. And his "only problem" is that he can't be a superb point guard because he does not shoot... "Only" is in quotes because lack of shooting makes him limited in a lot of other areas and therefore Luka is better.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Luka and it's not even close

Let me guess. Is it because Ben can’t shoot?

That and he already led a team to a title winning MvP while being the youngest, but I am sure that was just a fluke that the guy who has been polishing his skills at a professional level for the past odd 3-4 years comes into the league polished beyond anything Simmons was when he was at the same age.

If he had done that in the NBA then great but I’m not here to argue Euroleague vs NCAA. Simmons was the better player last year in the league that matters.