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Rebuild reality and doin it right

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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#381 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Aug 8, 2019 1:23 pm

As Lloyd Pierce has reimagined Trae Young’s role in the offense, Hawks General Manager Travis Schlenk has reworked the supporting cast.

Atlanta used lottery picks on Virginia’s De’Andre Hunter and Duke’s Cam Reddish in the 2019 draft, adding a pair of big, multi-positional wings to complement Young’s pick-and-roll partnership with John Collins. Young called the moves, which fit with Pierce’s three-point heavy offensive scheme, a “home run at every position we need.”

Schlenk deserves credit for a tidy turnaround, at least on paper. In the two-plus years since he was hired, the first-time GM has identified a potential franchise player in Young, assembled a legitimate core of young talent, established a clear style of play and navigated his organization toward an incredibly flexible salary cap position next summer.

Many of the most important players in Pierce’s new-look rotation will be 23 or younger, meaning Atlanta’s anticipated leap forward might still be a year away. Although Young’s potential is enough to make the mind wander, the Hawks’ brass is doing its best not to get ahead of itself.

“Progression is the key word,” Pierce said. “We have to play better defense. We have to play together better. We are preparing our young guys to win games. If we do that, an all-star [selection for Young] is possible and the playoffs are possible.”
Washington Post


Few NBA teams are as disciplined as the Hawks when it comes to sticking to a long-term plan. In three drafts under GM Travis Schlenk, Atlanta has targeted skill sets more than players. The front office identifies specific types of players whose games complement one another and then moves around the draft to acquire them, without worrying about their abilities in a vacuum. They are putting on a team-building clinic.

The Hawks have now added five key players in the past three drafts: John Collins, Trae Young, Kevin Huerter, Hunter and Cam Reddish. The unusual part is that all five can play in a lineup together. Atlanta head coach Lloyd Pierce may start a more traditional big man like Alex Len at the 5, but he could close games with these five young players in his own version of the Lineup of Death: Young at the 1, Collins at the 5, and three 3-and-D wings around them.


Everything starts with Young; he already makes the players around him better. The only way for a team with Young to be good defensively is to surround him with length and athleticism on the perimeter. The Hawks, who now have three of the biggest wings in the NBA, are doing that.

The biggest challenge in targeting wings with elite size and athleticism in the draft is that few can consistently shoot 3s—think of recent lottery busts like Josh Jackson and Stanley Johnson. Without other perimeter players who can stretch the floor, defenders could sag in the lane and force the ball out of Young’s hands. That should not be an issue with any of the young wings in Atlanta. All three players can space the floor around a pick-and-roll between Young and Collins.

Schlenk, an assistant GM in Golden State before coming to Atlanta, is clearly trying to re-create his old team. It’s unrealistic to expect Young to be as good as Steph Curry, Collins to be as good as Draymond Green, or Huerter to be as good as Klay Thompson. What Schlenk is gambling on is that putting players with similar skill sets in the same types of lineups can create roughly similar results.

Spoiler:
Hunter, Huerter, and Reddish all can attack a mismatch, which means there’s nowhere on the perimeter to hide a poor defender. A team that wants to move its point guard off the ball on defense and put its best wing defender on Young will be in trouble. Only point guards with elite size for their position will be able to hold up against a 6-foot-7 wing, which means most will have to stay on Young. It is the opposite of what Atlanta can do with Young on defense. Point guards will have to guard Young, but he won’t have to guard them. Golden State’s ability to do the same thing with Curry has been one of the underrated keys to its success in the playoffs.

There would have been no way for Atlanta to create a team that fit this well together if it had stood pat and taken the best available players. The Hawks acquired three of their five core players in trades. They received an extra pick by trading down last year (getting the pick that became Reddish by moving down from no. 3 to no. 5 in 2018 so the Mavs could take Luka Doncic) and cashed in their surplus of picks one year later to move up to take Hunter. It’s a risky strategy. There were more talented players on the board at no. 4. Atlanta needs the rest of its core to make Hunter better than he would have been if he had gone almost anywhere else.

The Hawks should be one of the most exciting young teams in the NBA over the next few seasons. They play a 3-point-heavy style with the type of versatile defensive cast that could be very appealing to a superstar in free agency, much like the Nets were this offseason. They don’t have any bad salaries on their books, either; the only deals past 2020-21 are rookie contracts. They will have acres of cap space ahead of them. Collins won’t be eligible for an extension until the summer of 2021, and Young won’t be up for one until 2022.
The Ringer


What a way to get a rebuild rolling. They appear fully committed to their vision.

General manager Travis Schlenk took over in 2017. Atlanta was coming off 10 straight postseason appearances, only one year removed from a playoff-series victory and just two years removed from a 60-win season.

Now, only DeAndre’ Bembry remains from the roster Schlenk inherited just two years ago. The last two players to go, Taurean Prince and Kent Bazemore, got moved this summer. They’re still assembling a young core. It’s OK if every piece is not yet placed.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#382 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Aug 8, 2019 2:09 pm

It’s probably not a coincidence that the one team that has copied the most important parts of the Warriors model is run by one of their former executives. Atlanta Hawks GM Travis Schlenk drafted Trae Young to be his version of Curry and began looking for players who could be his versions of Thompson and Green. It might be Kevin Huerter and John Collins, or the players he selects with the no. 8 and no. 10 overall picks in this year’s draft. The Hawks are building their team around the synergy that exists between players with specific skill sets. It might be the best way to build through the draft given the way the NBA has flattened the lottery odds to make accumulating superstars harder. The Warriors didn’t need to make any top five picks to build their first championship team. There’s a lot the league can still learn from them. Maybe they really are light-years ahead.
The Ringer

The Hawks are placing great importance on the “nurture” aspect. It’s as if general manager Travis Schlenk is assembling a puzzle with the pieces he’s acquired. Their draft haul on Thursday night serves as evidence of the blueprint Schlenk is following, similar to the one that he helped build as an assistant in the Warriors front office. All three choices meet a clear objective: to build around point guard Trae Young.

[I]t’s critical to find players who can effectively space the floor and happily accept their roles. Hunter, 21, and Reddish, 19, are unselfish players who hit shots at an average-or-better rate, and they can make smart plays within the flow of the offense. Conversely, both Hunter and Reddish also benefit from Young since they’re at their best with simplified spot-up roles, attacking closeouts with straight-line drives and making the appropriate pass.

But they’ll cover up for Young too. Opposing offenses targeted Damian Lillard and Steph Curry in the postseason; they’ll someday do the same to Young, a miniature guard at 6-foot-2 with a skinny frame. Both Hunter and Reddish project favorably as off-ball defenders; one can take on a primary assignment against a guard, allowing Young to hide on defense against an inferior player off-ball—much like Curry has done over the years with the Warriors. As much as Young got compared to Curry in college because of his perimeter shooting, building around him on defense is just as important. The more his Hawks teammates can alleviate pressure on Young on defense, the more energy he will be able to exert on offense.

All the pieces fit together well; their skills complement each other rather than overlap, which can spark cohesive player development. Cam Reddish and fellow draftees De'Andre Hunter and Bruno Fernando join a group of Hawks players with unfulfilled potential:
Young must continue making advancements on offense, as does Huerter, to form a truly dynamic backcourt, and Collins must improve on defense. These kids all fit on paper, but now it’s time for their talent to manifest.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#383 » by EazyRoc » Fri Aug 9, 2019 4:57 am

Comparing Trae Young to Steph Curry isn’t fair to Steph...

That will make sense to everyone in about 3 years.

I like the new strategy. They are drafting the absolute best fits available not based on roster/positional needs, but scheme fit & skill set. We really are building something special. Coach Pierce has definitely exceeded my expectations with how he developed this team last year.

Cool thing is that if we don’t make the playoffs, we will still be able to add another lottery pick. This appears to be a damn good draft at the top.

It’s pretty cool that our core as constructed will all hit their primes and play their best basketball around the same time.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#384 » by EazyRoc » Fri Aug 9, 2019 5:54 am

Also people like to compare us to the Warriors, but the team we resemble most is the Suns when they had Nash, Amare, Marion, and the rest of them. Heavy PnR team with great 3 point shooters.

Trae = Nash
John = Amare
Hunter = Marion
Cam = Joe Johnson
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#385 » by D21 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:55 pm

EazyRoc wrote:Also people like to compare us to the Warriors, but the team we resemble most is the Suns when they had Nash, Amare, Marion, and the rest of them. Heavy PnR team with great 3 point shooters.

Trae = Nash
John = Amare
Hunter = Marion
Cam = Joe Johnson


Right, except that I don't see Cam being Joe Johnson. He may end up being an All-Star, it's possible, and playing Joe's spot, but I don't see the same kind of player. There are no a lot of player build like Joe, and it's a big part of his defense. Let be clear, they guy could have been a monster if he had had the game mentality of Kobe for example.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#386 » by EazyRoc » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:10 am

D21 wrote:
EazyRoc wrote:Also people like to compare us to the Warriors, but the team we resemble most is the Suns when they had Nash, Amare, Marion, and the rest of them. Heavy PnR team with great 3 point shooters.

Trae = Nash
John = Amare
Hunter = Marion
Cam = Joe Johnson


Right, except that I don't see Cam being Joe Johnson. He may end up being an All-Star, it's possible, and playing Joe's spot, but I don't see the same kind of player. There are no a lot of player build like Joe, and it's a big part of his defense. Let be clear, they guy could have been a monster if he had had the game mentality of Kobe for example.

They aren’t perfect comparisons but think about roles and talent level and it makes sense
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#387 » by D21 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:34 pm

EazyRoc wrote:
D21 wrote:
EazyRoc wrote:Also people like to compare us to the Warriors, but the team we resemble most is the Suns when they had Nash, Amare, Marion, and the rest of them. Heavy PnR team with great 3 point shooters.

Trae = Nash
John = Amare
Hunter = Marion
Cam = Joe Johnson


Right, except that I don't see Cam being Joe Johnson. He may end up being an All-Star, it's possible, and playing Joe's spot, but I don't see the same kind of player. There are no a lot of player build like Joe, and it's a big part of his defense. Let be clear, they guy could have been a monster if he had had the game mentality of Kobe for example.

They aren’t perfect comparisons but think about roles and talent level and it makes sense


yes, I understand this POV, it's just that for me, Cam doesn't have the potential that Joe Johnson had entering the league.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#388 » by EliteSmarts » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:29 am

EazyRoc wrote:Comparing Trae Young to Steph Curry isn’t fair to Steph...

That will make sense to everyone in about 3 years.

I like the new strategy. They are drafting the absolute best fits available not based on roster/positional needs, but scheme fit & skill set. We really are building something special. Coach Pierce has definitely exceeded my expectations with how he developed this team last year.

Cool thing is that if we don’t make the playoffs, we will still be able to add another lottery pick. This appears to be a damn good draft at the top.

It’s pretty cool that our core as constructed will all hit their primes and play their best basketball around the same time.

Are you really trying to say Young in his prime is going to be better than a prime Steph. Trae Young is one of my favorite players but you need to chill if you really believe that loll.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#389 » by EazyRoc » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:41 pm

EliteSmarts wrote:
EazyRoc wrote:Comparing Trae Young to Steph Curry isn’t fair to Steph...

That will make sense to everyone in about 3 years.

I like the new strategy. They are drafting the absolute best fits available not based on roster/positional needs, but scheme fit & skill set. We really are building something special. Coach Pierce has definitely exceeded my expectations with how he developed this team last year.

Cool thing is that if we don’t make the playoffs, we will still be able to add another lottery pick. This appears to be a damn good draft at the top.

It’s pretty cool that our core as constructed will all hit their primes and play their best basketball around the same time.

Are you really trying to say Young in his prime is going to be better than a prime Steph. Trae Young is one of my favorite players but you need to chill if you really believe that loll.

Yea I really believe that.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#390 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:18 pm

We think we're on the right path. -Travis Schlenk

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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#391 » by graymule » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:21 pm

:D

Looking at this season's Hawk team, I see only one thing missing... EXPERIENCE!!
As we get that, watch out !!

:roll:
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#392 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:49 pm

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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#393 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:53 am

The Hawks aren’t yet hot, but they’re definitely getting warm

The Hawks have rebuilt so fast and so well they’ve forced us to pay attention. Theirs is the NBA’s best collection of young talent. Could the Hawks’ timetable be accelerated by current events?

Schlenk: “It certainly can. We always keep an eye on what’s going on around the league. But I think for us, not to sound like a broken record, we need to see what this little young core can do together. Do they fit together? Certainly the thought is that they’re going to fit together nicely.”

“I still remember when we did that sign-and-trade. I was like, ‘We’re speeding up our timeline here.’ We could continue to go with these young guys, but we have a veteran who wants to come play with our young guys. We felt like we had a chance, just by that acquisition, to become a really good team. “

They might. A team with Collins, Parker, Trae Young, Kevin Huerter, DeAndre Hunter and Cam Reddish has upside aplenty. The Hawks won’t top many watch lists this fall, but come the winter they’ll be the hottest game in town. How long has it been since we’ve been able to say that? Only 30 years.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#394 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:31 pm

Flush with young talent and cap space, Trae Young and the Hawks could be on the cusp of something special

Look at the pieces Travis Schlenk has put in place, and it's hard not to at least think about a run at Giannis in 2021

The Atlanta Hawks are on the short list of hipster Twitter's favorite teams to watch this coming season. They're not contenders, very clearly, but they're going to be fun as hell, and their combination of roster and cap space lets you dream on something truly special developing in the not-too-distant future.

"We're not getting ahead of ourselves," Hawks president of basketball ops and general manager Travis Schlenk told CBS Sports. "But obviously we feel good about the direction we're going."

As with so many young teams, Atlanta's hat is hanging on perhaps the scariest word in all of sports: Potential. The reality, as we sit less than a week out from the start of the 2019-20 season, is the Hawks are a bad team, but they have the potential to be a really good team, perhaps in relatively short order.

Schlenk's blueprint from Day One: Pile up as many draft picks as possible because you're not going to hit 100 percent on them. "You obviously have to make good decisions in the draft, but nobody gets them all right," Schlenk said. "You have to give yourself multiple swings." That was the impetus behind the Young-for-Doncic deal. The extra pick from the Mavericks was seen as the tiebreaker between two players the Hawks viewed as "pretty equal."

Ironically, Schlenk is designing a team that will allow the Hawks to take the ball out of Young's hands. Schlenk comes from Golden State, where he spent 13 years helping build that machine. He knows the value of having five guys on the court who can all handle, pass and shoot.

Spoiler:
"We've been talking to Trae about moving without the ball from the first day he got here," Schlenk said. "I remember him looking at me like I was crazy when I told him the hardest time to score in the NBA is when you have the ball, but it's true. When you have the ball, you've got five sets of defensive eyes on you. When you don't have the ball, you maybe have one set of eyes on you, the guy who's guarding you, and there's a good chance even he's not paying full attention because he's doing what? He's looking at the ball.

"So, yeah, we spend a lot of time talking with Trae about that," Schlenk continued. "Just trying to get him to realize if he gives it up, and then gets right into moving, he's going to get great looks. But that's only possible if you have other guys on the floor who can facilitate. I say it all the time, and it sounds so elementary, but if you have five guys on the court who can shoot, pass and dribble, you're really hard to guard. But you look around the league, and there aren't a lot of teams who can put five guys on the court that can do all three. They can maybe do one or two things, but not all three. We want as many guys as possible who can do all three."

Enter Hunter, who comes out of Virginia as an elite defensive prospect on the wing, but also as a guy the Hawks believe has loads of offensive upside that he didn't necessarily get to show in his more conservative, pattern-oriented college system. The same goes for Reddish, a sweet-stroke shooter whose talent is unquestioned, but whose tendency to fade from the action in college, to just sort of disappear for stretches, was a universal pre-draft concern among scouts.

Now you factor in John Collins, a potential budding All-Star who Schlenk raves about, and this is the exciting core of a team that is, for all intents and purposes, the youngest in basketball.

All the while, the Hawks are projected to have some $70 million in cap space next season. Jaylen Brown just reportedly turned down the Celtics' four-year, $80 million dollar offer on the belief that he can get more next summer. This is premature, but given Schlenk's penchant for versatile two-way players, Brown would make a lot of sense.

That said, Schlenk is adamant he won't use the Hawks' cap space just because they have it.

"I think the biggest mistake teams make is they say, 'Hey, we have all this cap space and we have to spend it on somebody,' and they go out and get the wrong guy who doesn't fit the culture or the system, or just isn't worth the money, or whatever," Schlenk said. "Cap space can be a little bit of fool's gold in that way."


You start looking around the league at the teams who might have both the cap space and an intriguing enough roster to at least draw the interest of Giannis Antetokounmpo, and Atlanta has to be at least mentioned. We'll obviously have to see how these young guys develop. But if indeed they start making the transition from potentially good to actually good, all the pieces are in place for a splash move.

"I haven't given it much thought, but no, I don't think it would be out of the question," a league scout told CBS Sports about the possibility of Giannis, or any other big-time free agent, eventually considering Atlanta. "There's no doubt they're building something there. But we've said the same thing about a lot of young teams in the past, and where are most of those teams now? In the NBA, the gap between young and promising and even just becoming a playoff team is huge. Atlanta obviously has a long way to go."
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#395 » by jayu70 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:31 pm

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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#396 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:57 pm

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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#397 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:07 pm

Trav is mentioned in an incredibly well written piece over on SB Nation.

The death of long-term planning in the NBA

...in several hours of conversation with over a dozen front office employees, nearly all acknowledge that it’s never been more difficult to strategically build than it is right now.

“The money has gotten so much bigger,” Atlanta Hawks general manager Travis Schlenk told SB Nation. “You see guys willing to part with the super max, but they’re still signing $150 million deals. I don’t want to say [the difference in money] doesn’t matter because it obviously does, but they’re still going to be well taken care of for the rest of their lives, and still be able to take care of their families.”

“We’re going to have $70 million in cap space more than likely this upcoming summer,” Schlenk said. “Just because you have it doesn’t mean you have to go spend it and sign a bunch of guys. We’re an instant-result society now, with everyone having phones in our hands and they can get any answer to any information they want immediately, and so it’s something we spend a lot of time talking about, more macro level, just with our guys and trying to get our young guys that are all 20, 21, 22 to understand that they’re not going to hit their peaks as basketball players until they’re 26, 27, 28.”

The Hawks are one team that’s firmly committed to a five-year plan, one that requires patience, sharp scouting, and cultural buy-in. But they, too, know they aren’t immune to the winds of change. “Fortunately, just because of where we are, we’re not feeling that right now,” Schlenk said. “But I guess that could change tomorrow.” He paused for a moment and then started to laugh. “All it takes is one of my young guys to say ‘I want out of here.’


What looms ahead may be a golden age for asset accumulation, filled with opportunities to pounce on situations that otherwise wouldn’t appear in a more rigid environment.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#398 » by CP War Hawks » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:17 pm

I believe the team stealth tanks this season. 2020 is very important in the direction of the franchise. That off season with two 1st rounders and cap space to sign basically who you want.

The reason you want to make the playoffs that year instead of this one is to show the big time FAs in 2021 to join a young battle tested, ready to compete team that's considerably young (19-23) that will be very good w/o you, but has a chance to be special with you.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#399 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Nov 5, 2019 10:55 am

Some valid criticisms of Schlenk's drafting.

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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#400 » by steady » Wed Nov 6, 2019 10:23 am

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