Top 10 players: team "Defense" vs team "Offense"

[dhsilv2]

Kawhi is probably the best defender in the league wth lol

We in 2015?

When he locks in he deserves an arguement...

Though IMO not consistent enough anymore.

Gobert wasn't killed and I didn't hear about it right? Because in no world is he even in a discussion with Gobert for best defender. Hell not Giannis, not green, not PG....not Covington. Hell we can go on a while.

[dhsilv2]

Team offense arguably has a better defender at 3/5 positions. Voting them mainly for the Curry/Lillard matchup as Lillard is by far the worst defender of the bunch.

Are you getting your positions mixed up or something? No that doesn't make any sense.

Also the 'Curry isn't that bad a defender' thing is going a bit too far if Lillard is 'by far' a worse defender, he can play genuinely good defense when he wants to.

Curry is a very much average starting guard defender.

[iggymcfrack]

Team offense arguably has a better defender at 3/5 positions. Voting them mainly for the Curry/Lillard matchup as Lillard is by far the worst defender of the bunch.

Hold Up....
3/5 positions?

You either saying Bron is better than Kawhi, Jokic better than Embiid or Harden over PG???
Though I suppose AD over Giannis is debatable I can see your POV, and Curry over Lillard I agree.

DRPM last year:
LeBron +1.83 (9th among SFs)
Kawhi +0.02 (42nd among SFs)

I mean yeah, Kawhi stepped it up in the playoffs but could LeBron have done similar if he played with a team with multiple other creators where he could coast through the regular season with load management? Very possibly. Also, I think Giannis is a better defender than Davis if they’re both playing PF but Davis probably has a bigger impact at center. That’s pretty close.

[Funcrusher]

Kawhi and Lillard on team defense? Wth

It's either them or LeBron and Curry

But LeBron was better defensively than Kawhi last year... And Lillard over Steph on defense? Really?

[ThumbsUpBaby]

I'm sorry, since when is Lillard considered a good defender?

Kawhi's defense is getting pretty overrated. He's not the best defender in the league anymore.

[dhsilv2]

Team offense arguably has a better defender at 3/5 positions. Voting them mainly for the Curry/Lillard matchup as Lillard is by far the worst defender of the bunch.

Hold Up....
3/5 positions?

You either saying Bron is better than Kawhi, Jokic better than Embiid or Harden over PG???
Though I suppose AD over Giannis is debatable I can see your POV, and Curry over Lillard I agree.

DRPM last year:
LeBron +1.83 (9th among SFs)
Kawhi +0.02 (42nd among SFs)

I mean yeah, Kawhi stepped it up in the playoffs but could LeBron have done similar if he played with a team with multiple other creators where he could coast through the regular season with load management? Very possibly. Also, I think Giannis is a better defender than Davis if they’re both playing PF but Davis probably has a bigger impact at center. That’s pretty close.

AD's always been poor off ball among elite defensive talents. I don't think you're right on the AD thing here.

[TheNG]

I'm the OP.
I see so many comments about how is someone can be of the "defense" team etc. So let me explain my logic.
First, I wanted the positions to make sense. So I've been forced to put Embiid/Jokiic a C, then the PF could only be Davis/Giannis. Naturally I would put LeBron/Kawhi at SF, and since Curry/Liliard are PG, it means Harden/PG should be SG.

Now, given each position, I had to take one player and put him in the "Offense" team and the other on "Defense", so:
C: Easy choice - Embiid is surely better defender and Jokic probably is a better Offensive player.
SG: Easy- Harden is offensive beast while PG is an excellent defender.
SF: LeBron was always knows as an offensive beast , while Kawhi was 2 times DPOY. In addition, LeBron was criticised in the recent years for his defense by many people. Kawhi on the other hand helped stopping Giannis in last year playoffs. So it made more sense foo me to send Kawhi to the defensive team and put LeBron in the offensive team.
PF: Here I a had a tough choice. Both are great at both ends. But last year Giannis was pretty much "stopped" by Kawhi, hence is offense is still "limited" while his defense has less draws. So I decided to put Giannis on the defensive team and Davis on the offensive.
PG: Yes, Lillard is not a good defender. I know. But I a had three reasons to put him there. First - is he really worse than Curry on defense? I'm not sure. Second - let's say he is worse than Curry on defense by X. Surely Curry is better on Offense. By how much? let's say by Y. Is X>Y or Y>x? For me, Curry is such a good player on offense, that Y>X. I can't see the best "offensive" team without him. Third - I wanted the match up to be interesting. If I would have put Curry on the other team and Lillard on this one, I think the poll would have been much less interesting - not many people would vote for the "offensive" team.

[Ugly0598]

No Gobert on team "defense", huh???

[bearadonisdna]

It's not the all defensive team.
It's more of 'the better defender among the elite.'

Pretty interesting.
Honestly looking at the roster and still uncomfortable betting against LeBron, giving a tentative edge to team offense.

[TheNG]

No Gobert on team "defense", huh???

I wanted to take the top 10 players as was decided in the poll here at the forum and divide them to two teams. The name can be misleading though.

[pootbrah]

Giannis at point and AD at pf for team D. Length of the gods and would win 73plus

[Jabroni Lames]

I'm sorry, since when is Lillard considered a good defender?

Kawhi's defense is getting pretty overrated. He's not the best defender in the league anymore.

Yeah, the Raptors were loaded with high IQ defensive players up and down the roster, last year. Gasol is still an elite man defender (e.g. he shut down Embiid) and elite help defender (e.g. he shut down Giannis). Kawhi didn't have to work that hard on defense in the regular season or playoffs.

[homecourtloss]

Team offense arguably has a better defender at 3/5 positions. Voting them mainly for the Curry/Lillard matchup as Lillard is by far the worst defender of the bunch.

Hold Up....
3/5 positions?

You either saying Bron is better than Kawhi, Jokic better than Embiid or Harden over PG???
Though I suppose AD over Giannis is debatable I can see your POV, and Curry over Lillard I agree.

DRPM last year:
LeBron +1.83 (9th among SFs)
Kawhi +0.02 (42nd among SFs)

I mean yeah, Kawhi stepped it up in the playoffs but could LeBron have done similar if he played with a team with multiple other creators where he could coast through the regular season with load management? Very possibly. Also, I think Giannis is a better defender than Davis if they’re both playing PF but Davis probably has a bigger impact at center. That’s pretty close.

Kawhi coasted hard on defense all year and still gets to live off of 2014-2016 rep. He did do better in the playoffs, but wasn’t the whirlwind defensive force people think he is. As for the regular season:

DRPM last year:
LeBron +1.83 (9th among SFs)
Kawhi +0.02 (42nd among SFs)

DRAPM last year
LeBron +1.41, 47th in he NBA
Kawhi, -.63, 401st in the NBA

DPIPM last year
LeBron +1.2, 59th in the NBA
Kawhi, +.1, 199th inthe NBA

—Lakers Drtg 1.6 Points per 100 possessions better with James on court than off
—Raptors DRtg 3.6 points per 100 possessions worse with Kawhi on court than on

This was posted on March 25th so a little might have changed over the last few games James played:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1820092

LeBron

Top 6% in defending the pick and roll ball handler
Top 10% in defending hand offs
Top 14% in defending the roll man in pick and roll
Top 20% in defending off of screens
Top 27% in defending in ISO
Top 30% in post up defense
Top 43% in spot up defense (only defense he was average in)

Kawhi

Top 5% in defending hand offs
Top 5% in defending in ISO
Top 24% in spot up defense
Top 32% in defending the pick and roll ball handler
Bottom 44% in post up defense
Bottom 34% in defending off of screens
NO DATA (didn’t defend at least 10times) in defending the roll man in pick and roll


—Players whom James has defended overall season FG%: 46.5%.
FG% when defended by James: 42.7% (-3.8%, 10.1 FGAs defended per game)

—Players whom Kawhi has defended overall season FG%: 46.0%
FG% when defended by Kawhi: 45.1% (-.9%, 10.3 FGAs defended per game)

[reflex35]

It's close but team "offence" would win. Too much of scoring talent and the reality is that even great defence players cannot really stop great offensive players. Defensive player in today's game is always at disadvantage.
Rules are set in a way which makes scoring easier.

[AbeVigodaLive]

The premise of this thread and OP might be slightly flawed.

[iggymcfrack]

Better representative teams for “team offense” and “team defense”:

Offense
PG: Lillard
SG: Harden
SF: Gallo
PF: Griffin
C: Towns

Defense
PG: Lowry
SG: Butler
SF: George
PF: Dray
C: Gobert

[Warriorfan]

Team O as expected much better passers
Good passing can easily overcome good defense.

[freethedevil]

Kawhi and Lillard on team defense? Wth

It's either them or LeBron and Curry

or draymond or gobert or you know, great defenders?

[TheNG]

Kawhi and Lillard on team defense? Wth

It's either them or LeBron and Curry

or draymond or gobert or you know, great defenders?

Read the first message please, the idea was divide the top10 players into two teams...
Otherwise it wouldn't be fun, arguably the best offensive team consists only of players from the top10, while the best defensive team doesn't - and then it wouldn't be interesting to compare them at all.

[DaVoiceMaster]

Both teams are close in terms of talent. If I had to choose, I'd give the nod to Team Offense. However, I'd replace Davis with Durant and it becomes a no-brainer for Team Offense.