Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F

[Instincts]

Young players can make huge gains, especially between 20 and 21. Look at Isaac and Fox last year.

I really like JI’s potential, but to put his modest gains alongside Fox’s transformation into a stud PG just isn’t realistic. JI just stayed healthy for a full season and he made nice, but modest, improvements - and those were gradually over the course of the season.

As much as I’d love for it to happen, a Fox type of transformation from Bamba is very unlikely this year.

Usually when a leap like Fox’s happens, it’s not with a player who had a major injury that kept him off the court for 5 months...one where the player’s activity is still being monitored and limited two months before training camp starts.

I expect Bamba to come back better than last year, but I also think he will be very rusty and still in rookie mode early on. His progress will be gradual throughout the year and my guess is the medical staff will monitor him very closely early on.

Wait, wait, wait...

In comparing Foxs, JIs, and Bambas development you are leaving out a major consideration. Basketball awareness / aka nba readiness.

At the time of the draft Fox was nba ready other than a outside shot. Thus the early breakout.

JI was less nba ready due to weight/ physicality and was viewed as a 3 to 4 year project player, to his credit he has made substantial strides in this area and now has the potential for a breakout, but I think it will likely be year 3 or 4 as expected before he "breaks out".

Bamba is a different story all together. Bamba was not nba ready due to basketball awareness, low motor, and weight/ physicality. These are major concerns and firmly suggested Bamba as a 3 to 4 year project player. But even more so, low awareness and low motor are issues that have a higher percentage to prove as inherent traits that a player would not be able to sufficiently rectify. I hope Bamba proves me wrong on this, but I expect only substantial shooting and weight improvements this year, with awareness and motor showing only modest improvement. Thus I dont think Bamba has breakout potential this year, likely year 3 to 4 if he can rectify to the awareness issue sufficiently.

[basketballRob]

Young players can make huge gains, especially between 20 and 21. Look at Isaac and Fox last year.

I really like JI’s potential, but to put his modest gains alongside Fox’s transformation into a stud PG just isn’t realistic. JI just stayed healthy for a full season and he made nice, but modest, improvements - and those were gradually over the course of the season.

As much as I’d love for it to happen, a Fox type of transformation from Bamba is very unlikely this year.

Usually when a leap like Fox’s happens, it’s not with a player who had a major injury that kept him off the court for 5 months...one where the player’s activity is still being monitored and limited two months before training camp starts.

I expect Bamba to come back better than last year, but I also think he will be very rusty and still in rookie mode early on. His progress will be gradual throughout the year and my guess is the medical staff will monitor him very closely early on.

Wait, wait, wait...

In comparing Foxs, JIs, and Bambas development you are leaving out a major consideration. Basketball awareness / aka nba readiness.

At the time of the draft Fox was nba ready other than a outside shot. Thus the early breakout.

JI was less nba ready due to weight/ physicality and was viewed as a 3 to 4 year project player, to his credit he has made substantial strides in this area and now has the potential for a breakout, but I think it will likely be year 3 or 4 as expected before he "breaks out".

Bamba is a different story all together. Bamba was not nba ready due to basketball awareness, low motor, and weight/ physicality. These are major concerns and firmly suggested Bamba as a 3 to 4 year project player. But even more so, low awareness and low motor are issues that have a higher percentage to prove as inherent traits that a player would not be able to sufficiently rectify. I hope Bamba proves me wrong on this, but I expect only substantial shooting and weight improvements this year, with awareness and motor showing only modest improvement. Thus I dont think Bamba has breakout potential this year, likely year 3 to 4 if he can rectify to the awareness issue sufficiently.

I could research and find comments about Isaac's motor at this time last year. I remember people saying he doesn't run hard all the time.

Bamba's problem was conditioning and knowing where to be on the floor. Much like it was Isaac's.

With Birch pushing him I think he'll give a better effort.





Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[Ducklett]

Young players can make huge gains, especially between 20 and 21. Look at Isaac and Fox last year.

I really like JI’s potential, but to put his modest gains alongside Fox’s transformation into a stud PG just isn’t realistic. JI just stayed healthy for a full season and he made nice, but modest, improvements - and those were gradually over the course of the season.

As much as I’d love for it to happen, a Fox type of transformation from Bamba is very unlikely this year.

Usually when a leap like Fox’s happens, it’s not with a player who had a major injury that kept him off the court for 5 months...one where the player’s activity is still being monitored and limited two months before training camp starts.

I expect Bamba to come back better than last year, but I also think he will be very rusty and still in rookie mode early on. His progress will be gradual throughout the year and my guess is the medical staff will monitor him very closely early on.

Wait, wait, wait...

In comparing Foxs, JIs, and Bambas development you are leaving out a major consideration. Basketball awareness / aka nba readiness.

At the time of the draft Fox was nba ready other than a outside shot. Thus the early breakout.

JI was less nba ready due to weight/ physicality and was viewed as a 3 to 4 year project player, to his credit he has made substantial strides in this area and now has the potential for a breakout, but I think it will likely be year 3 or 4 as expected before he "breaks out".

Bamba is a different story all together. Bamba was not nba ready due to basketball awareness, low motor, and weight/ physicality. These are major concerns and firmly suggested Bamba as a 3 to 4 year project player. But even more so, low awareness and low motor are issues that have a higher percentage to prove as inherent traits that a player would not be able to sufficiently rectify. I hope Bamba proves me wrong on this, but I expect only substantial shooting and weight improvements this year, with awareness and motor showing only modest improvement. Thus I dont think Bamba has breakout potential this year, likely year 3 to 4 if he can rectify to the awareness issue sufficiently.

Wasn't Bamba's extremely high intelligence (not BBIQ, actual IQ) one of comments most draft analysts had?

I feel like it was compared to David Robinson.

[basketballRob]

I really like JI’s potential, but to put his modest gains alongside Fox’s transformation into a stud PG just isn’t realistic. JI just stayed healthy for a full season and he made nice, but modest, improvements - and those were gradually over the course of the season.

As much as I’d love for it to happen, a Fox type of transformation from Bamba is very unlikely this year.

Usually when a leap like Fox’s happens, it’s not with a player who had a major injury that kept him off the court for 5 months...one where the player’s activity is still being monitored and limited two months before training camp starts.

I expect Bamba to come back better than last year, but I also think he will be very rusty and still in rookie mode early on. His progress will be gradual throughout the year and my guess is the medical staff will monitor him very closely early on.

Wait, wait, wait...

In comparing Foxs, JIs, and Bambas development you are leaving out a major consideration. Basketball awareness / aka nba readiness.

At the time of the draft Fox was nba ready other than a outside shot. Thus the early breakout.

JI was less nba ready due to weight/ physicality and was viewed as a 3 to 4 year project player, to his credit he has made substantial strides in this area and now has the potential for a breakout, but I think it will likely be year 3 or 4 as expected before he "breaks out".

Bamba is a different story all together. Bamba was not nba ready due to basketball awareness, low motor, and weight/ physicality. These are major concerns and firmly suggested Bamba as a 3 to 4 year project player. But even more so, low awareness and low motor are issues that have a higher percentage to prove as inherent traits that a player would not be able to sufficiently rectify. I hope Bamba proves me wrong on this, but I expect only substantial shooting and weight improvements this year, with awareness and motor showing only modest improvement. Thus I dont think Bamba has breakout potential this year, likely year 3 to 4 if he can rectify to the awareness issue sufficiently.

Wasn't Bamba's extremely high intelligence (not BBIQ, actual IQ) one of comments most draft analysts had?

I feel like it was compared to David Robinson.

I think it takes a while for the game to slow down for young players, where they can make good decisions. Bamba didn't play long enough to get to that point.

[Instincts]

I really like JI’s potential, but to put his modest gains alongside Fox’s transformation into a stud PG just isn’t realistic. JI just stayed healthy for a full season and he made nice, but modest, improvements - and those were gradually over the course of the season.

As much as I’d love for it to happen, a Fox type of transformation from Bamba is very unlikely this year.

Usually when a leap like Fox’s happens, it’s not with a player who had a major injury that kept him off the court for 5 months...one where the player’s activity is still being monitored and limited two months before training camp starts.

I expect Bamba to come back better than last year, but I also think he will be very rusty and still in rookie mode early on. His progress will be gradual throughout the year and my guess is the medical staff will monitor him very closely early on.

Wait, wait, wait...

In comparing Foxs, JIs, and Bambas development you are leaving out a major consideration. Basketball awareness / aka nba readiness.

At the time of the draft Fox was nba ready other than a outside shot. Thus the early breakout.

JI was less nba ready due to weight/ physicality and was viewed as a 3 to 4 year project player, to his credit he has made substantial strides in this area and now has the potential for a breakout, but I think it will likely be year 3 or 4 as expected before he "breaks out".

Bamba is a different story all together. Bamba was not nba ready due to basketball awareness, low motor, and weight/ physicality. These are major concerns and firmly suggested Bamba as a 3 to 4 year project player. But even more so, low awareness and low motor are issues that have a higher percentage to prove as inherent traits that a player would not be able to sufficiently rectify. I hope Bamba proves me wrong on this, but I expect only substantial shooting and weight improvements this year, with awareness and motor showing only modest improvement. Thus I dont think Bamba has breakout potential this year, likely year 3 to 4 if he can rectify to the awareness issue sufficiently.

I could research and find comments about Isaac's motor at this time last year. I remember people saying he doesn't run hard all the time.

Bamba's problem was conditioning and knowing where to be on the floor. Much like it was Isaac's.

With Birch pushing him I think he'll give a better effort.





Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Not sure where you are planning on researching, but I have watched Isaac quite a bit over the years and never concerned him a low motor player and it is definitely something I look for in the recipe of inherent traits of young players.

Regardless, I hope you are right on Bamba rectifying the effort issues this year. That would be a huge step in the right direction, especially considering the with the looming main event battle with low awareness that awaits. I will say that there can be a connection between low motor and low awareness, if the he can beat the low motor issue, then the chances of beating the low awareness have to increase.

[ezzzp]

I really like JI’s potential, but to put his modest gains alongside Fox’s transformation into a stud PG just isn’t realistic. JI just stayed healthy for a full season and he made nice, but modest, improvements - and those were gradually over the course of the season.

As much as I’d love for it to happen, a Fox type of transformation from Bamba is very unlikely this year.

Usually when a leap like Fox’s happens, it’s not with a player who had a major injury that kept him off the court for 5 months...one where the player’s activity is still being monitored and limited two months before training camp starts.

I expect Bamba to come back better than last year, but I also think he will be very rusty and still in rookie mode early on. His progress will be gradual throughout the year and my guess is the medical staff will monitor him very closely early on.

Wait, wait, wait...

In comparing Foxs, JIs, and Bambas development you are leaving out a major consideration. Basketball awareness / aka nba readiness.

At the time of the draft Fox was nba ready other than a outside shot. Thus the early breakout.

JI was less nba ready due to weight/ physicality and was viewed as a 3 to 4 year project player, to his credit he has made substantial strides in this area and now has the potential for a breakout, but I think it will likely be year 3 or 4 as expected before he "breaks out".

Bamba is a different story all together. Bamba was not nba ready due to basketball awareness, low motor, and weight/ physicality. These are major concerns and firmly suggested Bamba as a 3 to 4 year project player. But even more so, low awareness and low motor are issues that have a higher percentage to prove as inherent traits that a player would not be able to sufficiently rectify. I hope Bamba proves me wrong on this, but I expect only substantial shooting and weight improvements this year, with awareness and motor showing only modest improvement. Thus I dont think Bamba has breakout potential this year, likely year 3 to 4 if he can rectify to the awareness issue sufficiently.

Uh, I'm not sure what you are telling me to "wait wait wait" on when you are literally giving reasons that support my statement about trying to equate JI's progress to Fox's jump.

Btw, you failed to mention that Isaac missed almost his entire rookie year (only played first 27 games / 536 minutes).

If you are going to talk about "readiness" etc you should start with the actual facts about their 1st year - the primary factor was health....something that I laid out in the post you just commented on.

[Instincts]

I really like JI’s potential, but to put his modest gains alongside Fox’s transformation into a stud PG just isn’t realistic. JI just stayed healthy for a full season and he made nice, but modest, improvements - and those were gradually over the course of the season.

As much as I’d love for it to happen, a Fox type of transformation from Bamba is very unlikely this year.

Usually when a leap like Fox’s happens, it’s not with a player who had a major injury that kept him off the court for 5 months...one where the player’s activity is still being monitored and limited two months before training camp starts.

I expect Bamba to come back better than last year, but I also think he will be very rusty and still in rookie mode early on. His progress will be gradual throughout the year and my guess is the medical staff will monitor him very closely early on.

Wait, wait, wait...

In comparing Foxs, JIs, and Bambas development you are leaving out a major consideration. Basketball awareness / aka nba readiness.

At the time of the draft Fox was nba ready other than a outside shot. Thus the early breakout.

JI was less nba ready due to weight/ physicality and was viewed as a 3 to 4 year project player, to his credit he has made substantial strides in this area and now has the potential for a breakout, but I think it will likely be year 3 or 4 as expected before he "breaks out".

Bamba is a different story all together. Bamba was not nba ready due to basketball awareness, low motor, and weight/ physicality. These are major concerns and firmly suggested Bamba as a 3 to 4 year project player. But even more so, low awareness and low motor are issues that have a higher percentage to prove as inherent traits that a player would not be able to sufficiently rectify. I hope Bamba proves me wrong on this, but I expect only substantial shooting and weight improvements this year, with awareness and motor showing only modest improvement. Thus I dont think Bamba has breakout potential this year, likely year 3 to 4 if he can rectify to the awareness issue sufficiently.

Uh, I'm not sure what you are telling me to "wait wait wait" on when you are literally giving reasons that support my statement about trying to equate JI's progress to Fox's jump.

Btw, you failed to mention that Isaac missed almost his entire rookie year (only played first 27 games / 536 minutes).

If you are going to talk about "readiness" etc you should start with the actual facts about their 1st year - the primary factor was health....something that I laid out in the post you just commented on.

You're right ezzzp.

I was really only taking exception with the Bamba comments. I hope he proves me wrong, but he has big hurdles to overcome with the awareness and motor issues. I would be surprised if improvement happens this year to any substantial degree simply due to the inherent nature of awareness and to a lesser degree the motor concerns.

[ezzzp]

*moved here to keep Gravett thread on topic

Anyone who thinks Birch is playing over Bamba is crazy.

First off, the only way he develops is putting him in a position too, and we used a high pick on him

But let's be honest here, I like birch, but he is an undersized for the position and cant shoot and is being paid minimum.

No way he replaces a 21 year old, 7 footer who is a stretch 5 and has one of the longest wingspan in the NBA.

It's just not happening. Just on the monetary investment a lone.

Reasons for why its not that crazy that Birch starts the season as primary back up:

(1) Bamba is coming off a serious injury and hasn't played a single NBA minute since January. He has spent most of the time unable to work on his game because of the type of injury he had. His on court activities are literally still being closely monitored and limited...see summer league for evidence.

Even though he was improving prior to his injury, Bamba was still a very raw player on BOTH ends of the floor at the time of injury. So while he might have added upper body muscle, the lost time on-court to develop his skills will likely have some impact on how much growth he makes from year 1 to year 2.

On top of that, because he has not played in real game conditions for months, he'll be rusty in training camp and pre-season. Meanwhile, Birch will be coming off of the end of season momentum and success he had - hungrier than ever. He'll also be in game shape and rhythm as he'll be the starting C for Canada at the FIBA games that end 2 weeks before training camp.

(2) The Magic are not rebuilding, they have a clear goal to make the playoffs.

If you look at the Magic's schedule (there is a whole thread on it) you'll see that it will be crucial for the Magic to get off to a good start to mitigate what will be a very tough December/January.

That tells me that Clifford isn't going to be very patient or willing to risk losing games in exchange for player development. The continuity advantage is with Birch. So unless Bamba comes in ready and clearly more impactful than Khem, I don't see Clifford putting vital games that could very well dictate the season's success at risk.

I think Bamba will eventually take that back up role, but because of the injury and the importance of a good start, there is a good chance that Khem gets the nod early on.

[ezzzp]

Jacob Goldstein's (of @The_BBall_Index) projected playoff probabilities for the 2019-20 season.

a 34% chance of making it to the second round



Source:

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

[ezzzp]

I was really only taking exception with the Bamba comments. I hope he proves me wrong, but he has big hurdles to overcome with the awareness and motor issues. I would be surprised if improvement happens this year to any substantial degree simply due to the inherent nature of awareness and to a lesser degree the motor concerns.

I essentially said the same thing you said about Bamba:

"As much as I’d love for it to happen, a Fox type of transformation from Bamba is very unlikely this year. I expect Bamba to come back better than last year, but I also think he will be very rusty and still in rookie mode early on. His progress will be gradual throughout the year and my guess is the medical staff will monitor him very closely early on."

...and if you look a few posts above that one (post #1831) and one posted later (post #1848) you'll see that I even go into specifics. I think you have me confused with someone else.

[Instincts]

I was really only taking exception with the Bamba comments. I hope he proves me wrong, but he has big hurdles to overcome with the awareness and motor issues. I would be surprised if improvement happens this year to any substantial degree simply due to the inherent nature of awareness and to a lesser degree the motor concerns.

I essentially said the same thing you said about Bamba:

"As much as I’d love for it to happen, a Fox type of transformation from Bamba is very unlikely this year. I expect Bamba to come back better than last year, but I also think he will be very rusty and still in rookie mode early on. His progress will be gradual throughout the year and my guess is the medical staff will monitor him very closely early on."

...and if you look a few posts above that one (post #1831) and one posted later (post #1848) you'll see that I even go into specifics. I think you have me confused with someone else.

Yeah prob just a misread and my concern with Bamba showing itself. I have always been in the prove it camp with Bamba. His awareness is so low that he is going to have to prove it on the court. I do not give him the benefit of the doubt I give other young players like AG and Isaac due to his lack of two of the recipe traits of awareness and motor.

[ezzzp]

DaQuan Jeffries is part of this LA select team scrimmaging vs USA FIBA squad.

Read on Twitter

[ezzzp]

Read on Twitter

[pepe1991]

Read on Twitter

so you have to pay $5 a month to get an access to usless data like "gravity" ? What's next , $300 diet plan for DJ Augustin?

Gotta milk them nba fans like it's nba 2k

[ezzzp]

Read on Twitter

so you have to pay $5 a month to get an access to usless data like "gravity" ? What's next , $300 diet plan for DJ Augustin?

Gotta milk them nba fans like it's nba 2k

they post a lot of their stuff for free on twitter and a lot of their data on their site is free anyhow ....also just because you don’t understand how to apply that gravity data doesn’t mean it’s useless

...and from what I understand about bb-index is that the people that pay for the data behind their paywall use it for betting - not 2K

[drsd]

I guess this explains why Gordon works on his low post game. If he is pulling defenders to the rim, then that by definition means this leaves open shooters on the wings.

Gordon's assist numbers have improved in every season, without exception. I would expect this to continue this season. A 4+ apg stat line is thus an expectation in this Gravity conversation.

EDIT: Is Gordon trying to evolve into a triple-double threat type player?


..

[pepe1991]

Read on Twitter

so you have to pay $5 a month to get an access to usless data like "gravity" ? What's next , $300 diet plan for DJ Augustin?

Gotta milk them nba fans like it's nba 2k

they post a lot of their stuff for free on twitter and a lot of their data on their site is free anyhow ....also just because you don’t understand how to apply that gravity data doesn’t mean it’s useless

...and from what I understand about bb-index is that the people that pay for the data behind their paywall use it for betting - not 2K

I understand what gravity in basketball advanced stats is and means . I just find it idiotic to charge people for data. ESPN does it too.

I refered to NBA 2k ( 19 ) because they made my career mode borderline unplayable for ones who don't want to spend real money to improve skills over reasonable period of time.

[drsd]

I just find it idiotic to charge people for data. ESPN does it too.

How do you propose to pay statisticians for their time and work?


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[thelead]

I just find it idiotic to charge people for data. ESPN does it too.

How do you propose to pay statisticians for their time and work?


..

While I like free things, too many people think like pepe these days. They should try working for free and see how long it lasts...

[drsd]

Regarding Isaiah Briscoe, just read:

... during the offseason and after his injury, Isaiah Briscoe was spotted doing his rehab within the Amway Center. That is reportedly a common practice to provide training facilities for injured players after they are cut when in a similar circumstance.

Page 3 of Okeke story: LINK


Anyone else heard this rumor ?


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