Clippers Might Relocate... To Inglewood (UPDATE: And A New Logo To Go With It)

[ClipperDaz]

Can't wait for the boys to have their own home.

[Akklaim1]

Has anyone mentioned that Staples was horribly designed? That’s why it wasn’t meant to be consistently loud.

[Clemenza]

Has anyone mentioned that Staples was horribly designed? That’s why it wasn’t meant to be consistently loud.

Its a giant cave. The upper deck is so high up so you don't get that extra loud push from the folks seated in the nosebleeds like you do in other arenas. Its not the best place for concerts either.

[donemilio21]

Silver needs to find a way to force Dolan sell the Knicks. Not the MSG group. Just the Knicks.
He is an embarrassment for the league. Leaving his horrible management style aside, Knicks fans would gladly fill us in on that I'm sure, the fact that he is willing to sue another team owner in order to block him building a fully privately funded arena in a day where many sports teams are struggling to find arenas, begging for public money and moving teams around the country, is an embarrassment

[esqtvd]

Silver needs to find a way to force Dolan sell the Knicks. Not the MSG group. Just the Knicks.
He is an embarrassment for the league. Leaving his horrible management style aside, Knicks fans would gladly fill us in on that I'm sure, the fact that he is willing to sue another team owner in order to block him building a fully privately funded arena in a day where many sports teams are struggling to find arenas, begging for public money and moving teams around the country, is an embarrassment

calling V Stiviano

[Ranma]

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[WC NBA Fan]

What’s the latest legal issues? If it’s coast clear then congrats Clippers.

There are more or less 2 issues at this point.

The first one is regarding a grassroots group who is saying that the arena site should've been studied as a place to build affordable housing before anything else. They will have a hearing on the issue on September 20th.

I find this strange because supposedly, the FAA has ruled that no housing can be built in the LAX flight path and the arena site sits directly in the flight path. If this is so, then wouldn't the hearing be a waste of everyone's time?

The 2nd issue is the MSG lawsuit. They had first dibs on the land that the proposed arena is. Butts supposedly told them to give up the rights to the land because it would be used as a technology park. MSG conformed and it would later become Ballmer's site. MSG is saying they were duped. Had they known it was for a competing arena, they never would've given up the land.

My thing is this. If they don't have this in writing then they don't have a legal leg to stand on. And if it were in writing, wouldn't we be aware of this by now? They uncovered thousands of emails during the discovery process so you would think that they would've discovered any signed documents stating that Butts told Dolan that it was being used as a technology park.

My hunch is that everyone knows how much Ballmer is worth and they know that every year that this thing gets delayed means more money out of Ballmer's pockets. Their thinking is that if they can get Ballmer to cough up a % of what he saves by getting the arena done quicker, that he'll start paying people off to go away. When Ballmer talks about avoiding legal issues, I bet that's what he's getting at.

Do you want me to build affordable housing somewhere else? Fine, tell me where.

Do you want me to pay for the rights to this land? Fine, how much?

Don't want to get paid off. Fine, I'll see you in court but I've got the A's/Clippers bill on my side and you guys are going to lose. You'd be wise to accept a pay off.

[BillTheGOAT]

What’s the latest legal issues? If it’s coast clear then congrats Clippers.

There are more or less 2 issues at this point.

The first one is regarding a grassroots group who is saying that the arena site should've been studied as a place to build affordable housing before anything else. They will have a hearing on the issue on September 20th.

I find this strange because supposedly, the FAA has ruled that no housing can be built in the LAX flight path and the arena site sits directly in the flight path. If this is so, then wouldn't the hearing be a waste of everyone's time?

The 2nd issue is the MSG lawsuit. They had first dibs on the land that the proposed arena is. Butts supposedly told them to give up the rights to the land because it would be used as a technology park. MSG conformed and it would later become Ballmer's site. MSG is saying they were duped. Had they known it was for a competing arena, they never would've given up the land.

My thing is this. If they don't have this in writing then they don't have a legal leg to stand on. And if it were in writing, wouldn't we be aware of this by now? They uncovered thousands of emails during the discovery process so you would think that they would've discovered any signed documents stating that Butts told Dolan that it was being used as a technology park.

My hunch is that everyone knows how much Ballmer is worth and they know that every year that this thing gets delayed means more money out of Ballmer's pockets. Their thinking is that if they can get Ballmer to cough up a % of what he saves by getting the arena done quicker, that he'll start paying people off to go away. When Ballmer talks about avoiding legal issues, I bet that's what he's getting at.

Do you want me to build affordable housing somewhere else? Fine, tell me where.

Do you want me to pay for the rights to this land? Fine, how much?

Don't want to get paid off. Fine, I'll see you in court but I've got the A's/Clippers bill on my side and you guys are going to lose. You'd be wise to accept a pay off.

Thanks! I also thought the MSG lawsuit was to delay the project.

[WC NBA Fan]

What’s the latest legal issues? If it’s coast clear then congrats Clippers.

There are more or less 2 issues at this point.

The first one is regarding a grassroots group who is saying that the arena site should've been studied as a place to build affordable housing before anything else. They will have a hearing on the issue on September 20th.

I find this strange because supposedly, the FAA has ruled that no housing can be built in the LAX flight path and the arena site sits directly in the flight path. If this is so, then wouldn't the hearing be a waste of everyone's time?

The 2nd issue is the MSG lawsuit. They had first dibs on the land that the proposed arena is. Butts supposedly told them to give up the rights to the land because it would be used as a technology park. MSG conformed and it would later become Ballmer's site. MSG is saying they were duped. Had they known it was for a competing arena, they never would've given up the land.

My thing is this. If they don't have this in writing then they don't have a legal leg to stand on. And if it were in writing, wouldn't we be aware of this by now? They uncovered thousands of emails during the discovery process so you would think that they would've discovered any signed documents stating that Butts told Dolan that it was being used as a technology park.

My hunch is that everyone knows how much Ballmer is worth and they know that every year that this thing gets delayed means more money out of Ballmer's pockets. Their thinking is that if they can get Ballmer to cough up a % of what he saves by getting the arena done quicker, that he'll start paying people off to go away. When Ballmer talks about avoiding legal issues, I bet that's what he's getting at.

Do you want me to build affordable housing somewhere else? Fine, tell me where.

Do you want me to pay for the rights to this land? Fine, how much?

Don't want to get paid off. Fine, I'll see you in court but I've got the A's/Clippers bill on my side and you guys are going to lose. You'd be wise to accept a pay off.

Thanks! I also thought the MSG lawsuit was to delay the project.

That could also be part of Dolan's thinking. Let me delay this thing as much as possible so that I can get as many concerts in my building before Ballmer's building takes over the concert scene in Inglewood.

[Ranma]

Watch on YouTube

[mttwlsn16]

Silver needs to find a way to force Dolan sell the Knicks. Not the MSG group. Just the Knicks.
He is an embarrassment for the league. Leaving his horrible management style aside, Knicks fans would gladly fill us in on that I'm sure, the fact that he is willing to sue another team owner in order to block him building a fully privately funded arena in a day where many sports teams are struggling to find arenas, begging for public money and moving teams around the country, is an embarrassment

calling V Stiviano

Lmao

[TheNewEra]

There are more or less 2 issues at this point.

The first one is regarding a grassroots group who is saying that the arena site should've been studied as a place to build affordable housing before anything else. They will have a hearing on the issue on September 20th.

I find this strange because supposedly, the FAA has ruled that no housing can be built in the LAX flight path and the arena site sits directly in the flight path. If this is so, then wouldn't the hearing be a waste of everyone's time?

The 2nd issue is the MSG lawsuit. They had first dibs on the land that the proposed arena is. Butts supposedly told them to give up the rights to the land because it would be used as a technology park. MSG conformed and it would later become Ballmer's site. MSG is saying they were duped. Had they known it was for a competing arena, they never would've given up the land.

My thing is this. If they don't have this in writing then they don't have a legal leg to stand on. And if it were in writing, wouldn't we be aware of this by now? They uncovered thousands of emails during the discovery process so you would think that they would've discovered any signed documents stating that Butts told Dolan that it was being used as a technology park.

My hunch is that everyone knows how much Ballmer is worth and they know that every year that this thing gets delayed means more money out of Ballmer's pockets. Their thinking is that if they can get Ballmer to cough up a % of what he saves by getting the arena done quicker, that he'll start paying people off to go away. When Ballmer talks about avoiding legal issues, I bet that's what he's getting at.

Do you want me to build affordable housing somewhere else? Fine, tell me where.

Do you want me to pay for the rights to this land? Fine, how much?

Don't want to get paid off. Fine, I'll see you in court but I've got the A's/Clippers bill on my side and you guys are going to lose. You'd be wise to accept a pay off.

Thanks! I also thought the MSG lawsuit was to delay the project.

That could also be part of Dolan's thinking. Let me delay this thing as much as possible so that I can get as many concerts in my building before Ballmer's building takes over the concert scene in Inglewood.

So petty

[WC NBA Fan]

An interesting side note regarding the renderings. I always assumed that the arena would be facing north/south and would predominantly take up the space right at the corner of Century & Prairie where the motel & church's fried chicken is at.

As it turns out, that area will mostly be public space where fans will start their way towards the arena as the arena itself is facing east/west and is a good 100 yards south of the corner.

Why is this relevant? I find that this is a good thing for the timing aspect. It has been rumored that the motel will be rebuilt close by. In order for the motel to not have a break in operations, it would need to be completely rebuilt before demolition on the current motel could be done. That would obviously set the open date on the arena back if the arena was right at the corner. But by building it south of the corner, they can build the arena while building the new motel and leave the current one alone to keep doing business until the new one is complete and then be demolished.

This is great from a timing aspect as it would allow construction to start as soon as the lawsuits and red tape is out of the way. Start building the arena then build the open space when the motel is gone as opposed to not being able to build until the new motel is up and the old one is demolished. In fact, I wonder if that's the main reason for situating the site in the way that they did.

Furthermore, I'm hoping that this means that if things go smoothly from a legal standpoint, and if AEG is willing to negotiate a buyout as it would make financial sense on their part, that we could see this thing up before 2024.

[Akklaim1]

What are the chances the Lakers would come crawling for mercy to be a tenant of our arena once Staples Center starts showing its age and no longer a viable NBA arena? Since the Buss family isn't rich at all by NBA standards, they would have to use taxpayer's money for a new arena or beg AEG to get major renovations for Staples.

That would be awesome and hilarious.

[nickhx2]

0

[WC NBA Fan]

What are the chances the Lakers would come crawling for mercy to be a tenant of our arena once Staples Center starts showing its age and no longer a viable NBA arena? Since the Buss family isn't rich at all by NBA standards, they would have to use taxpayer's money for a new arena or beg AEG to get major renovations for Staples.

That would be awesome and hilarious.

I've heard that they are in the process of signing an extension at Staples. I do see the argument for the Lakers begging to play in Inglewood as hilarious but I really hope they follow through with the extension at Staples. More than anything, my interest in seeing the Clippers play in a new arena is because it would be THEIR arena. If the Lakers were to hypothetically come, we'd go back to being in their shadow.

The NBA is global. Every team should have their own arena. Sharing with the NHL is fine but having 2 teams in the same sports league in the same building not only cheapens the Clipper brand but cheapens the NBA brand as a whole. I'm so thankful that Steve Ballmer sees what we see as opposed to Donald's tomfoolery.

In short, stay the hell away Lakers.

[Ranma]

Both talk about how time with Team USA has generally benefited players both in terms of connections and developing an individual's game. A few years ago, James Harden, Kevin Durant and our own Paul George played one-on-one regularly against each other before George suffered an ankle injury. Those sessions were the highlight of the camp and Harden came away elevating his game. Before last season, George again competed with Durant and Harden in the Team USA camp and came away looking as the best player before starting out on fire in the 2018-19 season and finishing 3rd in MVP voting after suffering shoulder injuries.

It's also notable that Dwight Howard was not at all missed by his Team USA teammates in 2012 despite being "at the height of his powers" back then. This emphasizes again how D-Ho has been an unwelcomed presence in universal fashion regardless of where he's chosen to play.

Windhorst also touches on hearing that KD was totally surprised by Kawhi's call during free agency, which gave him actual pause in committing to the Nets. He doesn't think Kawhi will ever divulge the details of the conversation, but also goes on to stop short of calling Durant a liar in saying that Durant may have multiple truths in his mind in being a person who can change moods and opinions relatively easily.

Before getting into the Inglewood arena stuff at the 1:01:45 time stamp, Windhorst states it took a perfect storm for Kawhi to pull off the power play in order to secure Paul George on the Clippers. The fear of losing out to the Lakers caused the Clippers to negotiate from a position of vulnerability in giving up so much in the PG-13 trade in order to assure that Kawhi wouldn't end up a Laker this summer. Simmons thinks Kawhi set out to screw the Lakers over but Windhorst thinks that was only a byproduct of his primary aim of getting George to join him with the Clippers. Windhorst also points out that Paul George's previous teams have actually benefited from his trade demands citing the respective hauls that the Pacers and Thunder have received by trading him.

Windhorst further describes the Clippers' front office as recognizing what a monumental feat it has accomplished in free agency in positioning itself to even be in such position with the series of good moves that led up to that point, but also numb at the heavy cost that it paid to do so and seeing how precarious this team would be in a couple of seasons if things don't work out given the aforementioned sacrifice and the short-term nature of both of Kawhi and George's deals.

I was hoping to hear more about the Inglewood arena situation beyond what was already presented in the tweeted video clip below, but alas, Simmons--as a Clippers season-ticket holder--still thinks of Los Angeles as a Lakers town and points out how the Clippers failed to capitalize during the Lob City days when the Lakers were floundering.

The podcast was recorded before the injury to Boogie Cousins, so Windhorst and Simmons agree that the Lakers are best with AD at the 5 and LeBron at the 4, but both acknowledged that neither want to be at those respective positions.

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[Ranma]

What’s the latest legal issues? If it’s coast clear then congrats Clippers.

The 2nd issue is the MSG lawsuit. They had first dibs on the land that the proposed arena is. Butts supposedly told them to give up the rights to the land because it would be used as a technology park. MSG conformed and it would later become Ballmer's site. MSG is saying they were duped. Had they known it was for a competing arena, they never would've given up the land.

My thing is this. If they don't have this in writing then they don't have a legal leg to stand on. And if it were in writing, wouldn't we be aware of this by now? They uncovered thousands of emails during the discovery process so you would think that they would've discovered any signed documents stating that Butts told Dolan that it was being used as a technology park.

Dolan previously battled Michael Bloomberg when he was mayor of New York and was successful in killing the Big Apple's bid for the 2012 Olympics that would have resulted in a football stadium for the Jets that Dolan felt was a threat to Madison Square Garden as a venue for events. However, this time it doesn't look like he'll have the legal support or even community backing to block Inglewood from developing a basketball stadium for the Clippers despite his efforts to fund an opposing mayoral candidate and prop up questionable protest groups in the city.

Based on reports, it seems quite likely that there is no exclusive agreement on paper with the Forum preventing a competing venue from being developed in Inglewood as Dolan previously claimed. Now he's relying on the spirit of such an agreement that the other side is denying exists. Dolan claims that his $140-million investment in purchasing and renovating the Forum "before anyone wanted to invest in Inglewood" should be recognized enough to somehow be an act of good faith that entitles him to exclusivity. Then he further claims that he's reached out to both the Lakers and Clippers about playing in the Forum. Talk about desperate.

This billionaire is crying foul when his own lawyers failed to secure this exclusive agreement he thought he had in writing and is now whining that he'll lose out on his investment. Isn't that the nature of the business in the cut-throat world he typically operates in? Plus, I'm sure Stan Kroenke would have gladly bought the Forum and its accompanying land before Dolan acquired it and I suspect Steve Ballmer would still be interested in buying that package if it were made available for sale. Even NBA Commissioner Adam Silver has tried to broker an agreement to placate Dolan by giving him a cut of the revenue from sales of concert events at the Clippers' proposed arena, which Dolan refused to accept, by the way.

It's interesting to note that he supposedly has no problem with either of the Lakers or Clippers playing in Inglewood so long as they do so at his Forum; he even stated in a deposition that he doesn't necessarily need the exclusive seemingly conceding that he's lost on that point. Dolan is throwing an expensive temper tantrum that is only delaying the inevitable. I personally hope that Ballmer doesn't cave into giving Dolan any concessions just to make sure that he doesn't benefit one iota from the ill-advised fight he chose to wage with us.

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William D. Cohan, Vanity Fair (7/30/19)

Dolan is upset that with the city of Inglewood’s help, Ballmer now has big plans to build a new basketball arena in Inglewood for the Clippers, not far from the Forum. Like with the Jets stadium in New York, Dolan fears that the Clippers’ new stadium would occasionally compete with the Forum for concerts and other events, and hurt the returns on his $140 million. Dolan has argued in court filings that he thought he had an exclusive deal with Butts, and Inglewood, to make the renovated Forum the sole concert venue in the area and was shocked when he learned that Butts had backed Ballmer’s bid for the Clippers’ new stadium.

But a confidential deposition, taken in Los Angeles last November, reveals Dolan to be an imperial CEO who left the important details of a material transaction to his subordinates—some of whose names he could not recall—and then seemed incredulous that what he thought was an exclusive deal with Butts turned out to be less than clear in the actual written, and signed, contract. Oops. And now Ballmer is driving a Mack Truck through that careless drafting. Last week he released a dazzling video of what the new stadium would look like.

He was not pleased to have it revealed that the contract with Inglewood did not give the Forum an exclusive. “My position is that we invested $140 million and the first ones to do so in Inglewood and that we had an agreement with the city, both in paper and in spirit, that the city would help us with that investment to make it successful,” he said near the end of the deposition. It’s an understandable argument. It’s just too bad the contract MSG signed did not make the exclusivity explicit.

Dolan then explained how he had tried to get either the Lakers, who have a contract to play at the Staples Center until 2025, or the Clippers, who will play at Staples until 2024, to play at the Forum. But the Clippers rejected Dolan’s offer and the Lakers didn’t seem interested. (The Lakers are negotiating to stay at Staples.) “It’s not necessarily that I need the exclusive,” Dolan said about owning the lone concert venue in town. “I need to be able to respect the investment we made and for the city to respect the agreement that they made, that they will help support the investment. Otherwise, why would anybody invest in Inglewood if the city gave them assurances, right, that they would going to do everything to help them, right, and then later backed off of those assurances?”

Skip Miller, the attorney for Inglewood and Mayor Butts, did not appear to have much sympathy. “I would get it in writing, Mr. Dolan,” he said. “I would get it in writing. I wouldn’t just generally trust my lawyers to protect me.”

“Get It in Writing, Mr. Dolan”: Inside Jim Dolan’s L.A. Feud with Steve Ballmer


Josh Dean, Bloomberg Businessweek (7/26/19)

The facts are what the facts are. The Knicks—who occupy the world’s most famous arena and are, according to Forbes, the most valuable NBA franchise, worth an estimated $4 billion—have the league’s worst record in the 21st century. Since 2000 they have a win percentage of .416, despite paying more luxury tax for exceeding the salary cap than any other franchise. In short, Dolan’s New York Knicks have spent the most to perform the worst.

The Dolans own less than 10% of MSG’s stock, but they control the voting shares. No one can force Jim to do anything. “I can’t even sue them in Delaware court if I don’t like the deal,” says Mario Gabelli, whose Gamco Investors is one of the company’s largest shareholders. And MSG is thriving. Renovations to the Garden have created more revenue streams, and Dolan has greatly expanded MSG’s entertainment portfolio, adding Radio City Music Hall, the Beacon Theatre, and Los Angeles’s Forum, among other venues. Live entertainment venues are extremely valuable right now, Gabelli says, because “millennials and Gen Z love live entertainment.”

The thing is … no, something doesn’t have to be done. When people tell Dolan he’s not wanted, he looks around his filled arena and sees thousands of reasons this is wrong. “Take a look at our record and take a look at our attendance,” he told Kay. Results don’t actually matter. “Win or lose, we’re going to make roughly the same amount of money.”

Is the Knicks’ James Dolan the Worst Owner in Professional Sports?

[Ranma]

It's interesting to know that, per Ramona Shelburne, the Clippers initially were supposed to be the 2nd tenant in Staples Center--not the Lakers--but due to Sterling's dalliance with Anaheim for a couple of years, AEG apparently recruited the Lakers before Sterling decided to stick in L.A. and settle for 3rd-tenant status.

Ballmer's old interview with Bloomberg also provides some insight into his thoughts on the Clippers' arena project.

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[WC NBA Fan]

Incredible work Ranma! Wow, I'm surprised hoopshype didn't have those articles linked. Kudos to you for finding all of that.

The Vanity Fair article touches on what I've suspected all along. Dolan doesn't have anything in writing and he knows it. So his best option is to just delay it as much as possible to get as many events in his building while he has exclusivity. I'll give him that. I still think that the Clippers could have the Inglewood arena up by 2023 or even 2022 if they greased the right palms or if the Judge acts swiftly in Ballmer's favor. It would then just be a matter of AEG & Ballmer coming up with a buyout agreement that works for both sides before breaking ground.

Lastly, I didn't know that the Clippers were supposed to be the 2nd tenant although I'm not really surprised. Dr. Buss often talked of wanting to stay in Inglewood while the Clippers would merely be moving a few blocks up the street from the Sports Arena to Staples.

I have to say that I'm somewhat suspicious of those sources though. I've always felt that the Clippers to Anaheim was a done deal in '96 but got thwarted when the Staples project started coming to fruition. My thinking was that it was supposed to be for the Kings & Lakers then AEG talked Sterling into being a 3rd tenant. I could be wrong but knowing how much Sterling loved LA, I couldn't see him flirting with Anaheim had he known he could've been #2 at Staples ahead of the Lakers or with no Lakers at all.

Than again, knowing Sterling, Anaheim just could've been the ultimate negotiating ploy to get a better deal at Staples all along...