Official Offseason thread Vol 3: Bck2BACK

[Wiltside]

Bosh was elite. I'll hear nothing else. His PnR coverage was incredible, that silky smooth lefty J that most PF's could only dream of, and revolutionizing the stretch 5 role in today's NBA.

Put some respect on this mans.

[DayofMourning]

Would gladly see Bosh's jersey raised to the rafters here. Make it even more eventous by lowering #23 and O'Neal's.

[Bishop45]

Wanna see Winnie back in pre-draft shape, don't know what the difference in weight is but he looked a lot clunkier as a Soph. Maybe it was a different style of play, lot more rushed shots as a Soph. Mans is stuck between putting on weight to play the 4 for Spo and trying to be spry enough to stay at lead guard

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Surely if this past year has taught us anything, it's that Winnie is best as a Guard, or wing. Small ball 4 he ain't, and I really don't want to see him used in that spot this year.

Hoping he's getting leaner, more explosive, and played exclusively as a 1/2/3 this szn Bish.

Probably the biggest year for him development wise since Wade left the first time- likely because it's a given that he'll start again and possibly for the season. Lot of make and break, hopefully we're not wistfully begging to figure out his position for half the season

[Kobewade11]

I'm not the biggest Bosh fan. He's contributions by Heat fans I find to be over-exaggerated. During the big 3 era, Mia was worst in the league in rebounding twice and around the middle the other 2 years. Anecdotally, I recall game after game, season after season yelling at the tv for Bosh to move around more and box his man out rather than just to stand around and watch other guys shoot. His engine never impressed me.

I'm not saying that Mia would have won 2 titles without him, or that he sucked. He was a good pick and roll player and could switch on defense with ease. He was a solid 3rd wheel. He just wasn't anything close to as good of a player that some make him out to be.

And what exactly do some make him out to be? Its not like Bosh is in GOAT conversations.

An elite player which he never was, imo. He was always a second tier player.

Haven’t you been clamoring for us to trade for a second tier player in Bradley Beal or do I have you confused?

[Beenie]

An 11x all star who would have made a couple more all star games if his career wasnt cut short. is a lock for the HoF and he was never elite? maybe define your version of elite?

Truth is we never got to see Bosh’s full repertoire here in Miami due to illness and being a 3rd wheel. As for the rebounding #s this was addressed often by the team and Bosh. Our defensive system at the time always drew Bosh away from the rim. We sacrificed rebounding for a more blitzing style defense with Wade and Lebron playing as safeties. It was always designed to be a rebound by committee scheme. Personally, I thought we overused the style by 2014. It was a taxing scheme and the Spurs ripped it to shreds generating open looks on command. One of Spo’s most glaring lowlights IMO

As far as the allstar appearances, imo,they aren't necessarily an indication of elitism. It's a nice feather in the cap to brag about, sure. I would argue that the very best PF's in around Bosh's era were all a notch better than him. Again, he was a second tier player.

The team's excuse as to why Bosh got boxed out as often as he did doesnt explain his laziness to engage the glass despite him often enough being in a position to do so. Again, I'm indicting his motor, particularly on the defensive glass. Regardless of the defensive schematics that reduced his optimum ability to grab rebounds, he would often get outworked even when he was in a position to secure the board. It drove me nuts for years.

We got a small glimpse of Bosh being the featured option prior to his initial blood clot. Subsequent to his sidelining, the team performed better and was far more cohesive with Deng at the 4.

After he returned and prior to his second sidelining, the team's chemistry with Whiteside and Bosh on the court was awful. Whiteside was ascending and Bosh wasn't very effective.

[goodboy]

You buggin

[Beenie]

And what exactly do some make him out to be? Its not like Bosh is in GOAT conversations.

An elite player which he never was, imo. He was always a second tier player.

Haven’t you been clamoring for us to trade for a second tier player in Bradley Beal or do I have you confused?

What does one have to do with the other?

[MartyCONLONNN]

An 11x all star who would have made a couple more all star games if his career wasnt cut short. is a lock for the HoF and he was never elite? maybe define your version of elite?

Truth is we never got to see Bosh’s full repertoire here in Miami due to illness and being a 3rd wheel. As for the rebounding #s this was addressed often by the team and Bosh. Our defensive system at the time always drew Bosh away from the rim. We sacrificed rebounding for a more blitzing style defense with Wade and Lebron playing as safeties. It was always designed to be a rebound by committee scheme. Personally, I thought we overused the style by 2014. It was a taxing scheme and the Spurs ripped it to shreds generating open looks on command. One of Spo’s most glaring lowlights IMO

As far as the allstar appearances, imo,they aren't necessarily an indication of elitism. It's a nice feather in the cap to brag about, sure. I would argue that the very best PF's in around Bosh's era were all a notch better than him. Again, he was a second tier player.

The team's excuse as to why Bosh got boxed out as often as he did doesnt explain his laziness to engage the glass despite him often enough being in a position to do so. Again, I'm indicting his motor, particularly on the defensive glass. Regardless of the defensive schematics that reduced his optimum ability to grab rebounds, he would often get outworked even when he was in a position to secure the board. It drove me nuts for years.

We got a small glimpse of Bosh being the featured option prior to his initial blood clot. Subsequent to his sidelining, the team performed better and was far more cohesive with Deng at the 4.

After he returned and prior to his second sidelining, the team's chemistry with Whiteside and Bosh on the court was awful. Whiteside was ascending and Bosh wasn't very effective.

Funny thing is non of those personal displeasures disprove that he was in fact an elite player and is going to the hall of fame. a place where only elite players get inducted to. incase you were not aware.

[Kobewade11]

An elite player which he never was, imo. He was always a second tier player.

Haven’t you been clamoring for us to trade for a second tier player in Bradley Beal or do I have you confused?

What does one have to do with the other?

Is that you Betha or no

[Beenie]

An 11x all star who would have made a couple more all star games if his career wasnt cut short. is a lock for the HoF and he was never elite? maybe define your version of elite?

Truth is we never got to see Bosh’s full repertoire here in Miami due to illness and being a 3rd wheel. As for the rebounding #s this was addressed often by the team and Bosh. Our defensive system at the time always drew Bosh away from the rim. We sacrificed rebounding for a more blitzing style defense with Wade and Lebron playing as safeties. It was always designed to be a rebound by committee scheme. Personally, I thought we overused the style by 2014. It was a taxing scheme and the Spurs ripped it to shreds generating open looks on command. One of Spo’s most glaring lowlights IMO

As far as the allstar appearances, imo,they aren't necessarily an indication of elitism. It's a nice feather in the cap to brag about, sure. I would argue that the very best PF's in around Bosh's era were all a notch better than him. Again, he was a second tier player.

The team's excuse as to why Bosh got boxed out as often as he did doesnt explain his laziness to engage the glass despite him often enough being in a position to do so. Again, I'm indicting his motor, particularly on the defensive glass. Regardless of the defensive schematics that reduced his optimum ability to grab rebounds, he would often get outworked even when he was in a position to secure the board. It drove me nuts for years.

We got a small glimpse of Bosh being the featured option prior to his initial blood clot. Subsequent to his sidelining, the team performed better and was far more cohesive with Deng at the 4.

After he returned and prior to his second sidelining, the team's chemistry with Whiteside and Bosh on the court was awful. Whiteside was ascending and Bosh wasn't very effective.

Funny thing is non of those personal displeasures disprove that he was in fact an elite player and is going to the hall of fame. a place where only elite players get inducted to. incase you were not aware.

How many elite players can you name during their prime years ever going scoreless in a finals game?

[MartyCONLONNN]

Lebron scored 8 in a Finals game and hes considered the 2nd greatest player all time. Bosh averaged more points than him in that series too... Lebron was considered the best player on the planet by far at the time. so what does that make Lebron? your argument is awful. and Bosh is still going to the HoF. Name me a HoF player who wasnt elite?

[Beenie]

Lebron scored 8 in a Finals game and hes considered the 2nd greatest player all time. Bosh averaged more points than him in that series too... Lebron was considered the best player on the planet by far at the time. your argument is awful. and Bosh is still going to the HoF. Name me a HoF player who wasnt elite?

Played center a lot on a team that was worst in the league in rebounding, had a poor motor on the defensive glass, went scoreless in a game 7 in the finals and yet I'm audacious for suggesting that Bosh wasn't an elite level player.

Meanwhile, allstar appearances is the metric you are siting to establish elite level status.

[MartyCONLONNN]

Lebron scored 8 in a Finals game and hes considered the 2nd greatest player all time. Bosh averaged more points than him in that series too... Lebron was considered the best player on the planet by far at the time. your argument is awful. and Bosh is still going to the HoF. Name me a HoF player who wasnt elite?

Played center a lot on a team that was worst in the league in rebounding, had a poor motor on the defensive glass, went scoreless in a game 7 in the finals and yet I'm audacious for suggesting that Bosh wasn't an elite level player.

Meanwhile, allstar appearances is the metric you are siting to establish elite level status.

nope. i just mentioned that because it is a HUGE indicator of whether or not your considered one of the top players in the league at the time. But he was also an elite defensive big, both in the pick n roll and help defense. an efficient 3 level scorer (rare for 7 footer). a key cog on a team that made 4 consecutive finals and won 2 rings. a gold medalist. That redeem team had the best players in the league at the time and Bosh was our best big, outperforming Howard who was a considered the best big in the league at the time. He was arguably the most versatile big of his era. The list can go on.

You didnt like his rebounding numbers in a system that worked against him and a game 7 performance versus a whole resume of world class achievements. This is your metric to argue he wasnt elite lol. Again who in the hall of fame wasnt elite in some capacity?

[Beenie]

Lebron scored 8 in a Finals game and hes considered the 2nd greatest player all time. Bosh averaged more points than him in that series too... Lebron was considered the best player on the planet by far at the time. your argument is awful. and Bosh is still going to the HoF. Name me a HoF player who wasnt elite?

Played center a lot on a team that was worst in the league in rebounding, had a poor motor on the defensive glass, went scoreless in a game 7 in the finals and yet I'm audacious for suggesting that Bosh wasn't an elite level player.

Meanwhile, allstar appearances is the metric you are siting to establish elite level status.

nope. i just mentioned that because it is a HUGE indicator of whether or not your considered one of the top players in the league at the time. But he was also an elite defensive big, both in the pick n roll and help defense. an efficient 3 level scorer (rare for 7 footer). a key cog on a team that made 4 consecutive finals and won 2 rings. a gold medalist. That redeem team had the best players in the league at the time and Bosh was our best big, outperforming Howard who was a considered the best big in the league at the time. He was arguably the most versatile big of his era. The list can go on.

You didnt like his rebounding numbers in a system that worked against him and a game 7 performance versus a whole resume of world class achievements. This is your metric to argue he wasnt elite lol. Again who in the hall of fame wasnt elite in some capacity?

In the 7 seasons of his career prior to joining the Heat, Bosh only made it to the playoffs twice and his Raptors teams were eliminated in the first round both times. I rest my case.

[HeatFanLifer]

What we talking bout here with Bosh?

[rate_]

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Both Booker and Winslow running on the same team. Booker looks otherworldly in this game while Winslow barely sees the ball, and we chose Winslow over him in the draft

[MartyCONLONNN]

Played center a lot on a team that was worst in the league in rebounding, had a poor motor on the defensive glass, went scoreless in a game 7 in the finals and yet I'm audacious for suggesting that Bosh wasn't an elite level player.

Meanwhile, allstar appearances is the metric you are siting to establish elite level status.

nope. i just mentioned that because it is a HUGE indicator of whether or not your considered one of the top players in the league at the time. But he was also an elite defensive big, both in the pick n roll and help defense. an efficient 3 level scorer (rare for 7 footer). a key cog on a team that made 4 consecutive finals and won 2 rings. a gold medalist. That redeem team had the best players in the league at the time and Bosh was our best big, outperforming Howard who was a considered the best big in the league at the time. He was arguably the most versatile big of his era. The list can go on.

You didnt like his rebounding numbers in a system that worked against him and a game 7 performance versus a whole resume of world class achievements. This is your metric to argue he wasnt elite lol. Again who in the hall of fame wasnt elite in some capacity?

In the 7 seasons of his career prior to joining the Heat, Bosh only made it to the playoffs twice and his Raptors teams were eliminated in the first round both times. I rest my case.

Who were Bosh’s teammates ?? How much success has top 5 player Anthony Davis had in the playoffs let alone how many times did he make it while having an all star guard on his team. What case did you rest? the fact that you’re good at making conclusions without decent context? Prime Wade never passed the first round either without another star btw... These arguments are hilariously bad. good night.

[Beenie]

nope. i just mentioned that because it is a HUGE indicator of whether or not your considered one of the top players in the league at the time. But he was also an elite defensive big, both in the pick n roll and help defense. an efficient 3 level scorer (rare for 7 footer). a key cog on a team that made 4 consecutive finals and won 2 rings. a gold medalist. That redeem team had the best players in the league at the time and Bosh was our best big, outperforming Howard who was a considered the best big in the league at the time. He was arguably the most versatile big of his era. The list can go on.

You didnt like his rebounding numbers in a system that worked against him and a game 7 performance versus a whole resume of world class achievements. This is your metric to argue he wasnt elite lol. Again who in the hall of fame wasnt elite in some capacity?

In the 7 seasons of his career prior to joining the Heat, Bosh only made it to the playoffs twice and his Raptors teams were eliminated in the first round both times. I rest my case.

Who were Bosh’s teammates ?? How much success has top 5 player Anthony Davis had in the playoffs let alone how many times did he make it while having an all star guard on his team. What case did you rest? the fact that you’re good at making conclusions without decent context? Prime Wade never passed the first round either without another star btw... These arguments are hilariously bad. good night.

Wade made it out of the first round his rookie year with the team in my avy. Nite.

[MartyCONLONNN]

In the 7 seasons of his career prior to joining the Heat, Bosh only made it to the playoffs twice and his Raptors teams were eliminated in the first round both times. I rest my case.

Who were Bosh’s teammates ?? How much success has top 5 player Anthony Davis had in the playoffs let alone how many times did he make it while having an all star guard on his team. What case did you rest? the fact that you’re good at making conclusions without decent context? Prime Wade never passed the first round either without another star btw... These arguments are hilariously bad. good night.

Wade made it out of the first round his rookie year with the team in my avy. Nite.

That was a good well rounded team with 3 guys that went on to make multiple all star teams. I specifically said Prime Wade because he was one the best players ever and went nowhere without a good team. You never answered for Davis and his lack of success yet hes considered top 5. you never answered for which HoF werent elite? you keep deflecting and it’s a really childish form of debate.

[Beenie]

Who were Bosh’s teammates ?? How much success has top 5 player Anthony Davis had in the playoffs let alone how many times did he make it while having an all star guard on his team. What case did you rest? the fact that you’re good at making conclusions without decent context? Prime Wade never passed the first round either without another star btw... These arguments are hilariously bad. good night.

Wade made it out of the first round his rookie year with the team in my avy. Nite.

That was a good well rounded team with 3 guys that went on to make multiple all star teams. I specifically said Prime Wade because he was one the best players ever and went nowhere without a good team. You never answered for Davis and his lack of success yet hes considered top 5. you never answered for which HoF werent elite? you keep deflecting and it’s a really childish form of debate.

Wade wasn't even prime yet which works against your argument. And no Heat players that year went to the AS game.

I'll give you Davis, He's an outlier of a true elite level player with a poor record. But he's been out of the first round sweeping the Blazers in the process. And if you want to compare his career numbers to Bosh's while he was a Raptor be my guest.