Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[payitforward]

Question is what are you going to get with the money that’s freed up if you unload JW’s contract. If the Zards have a realistic shot at signing a top player like a Giannis or a Kawhi then I’m with you. But if that money ends up simply being used to sign 2-3 good or decent players then I’m not on board.

Even an overrated, overpaid Wall has the capability of being a legit difference maker on both ends of the court when healthy. I'm guessing Pat Riley knows that and that's why Wall is reportedly on his radar screen.

See, that's where I disagree. For the price of Wall, you could get 2 or 3 pretty darn good players who are likely to be younger and more durable.

For the price of Wall, you could have had D'Angelo Russell and Jeremy Lamb.
For the price of Wall, you could have had Malcolm Brogdon and Bojan Bogdanovic
For the price of Wall, you could have had Tomas Satoransky, Thad Young, Kevon Looney, Maurice Harkless and the Miami 2023 lotto protected 1st.

What might be at stake here is this concept of "legit difference maker."

In basketball, with very very rare exceptions wins come from what all the players do in their minutes on the court. Thus, for example, you might not think that e.g. Russell/Lamb are as good as Wall. But, assume that, combined, they play lots more minutes than John. They don't have to be better than Wall. They have to be better than the combination of Wall plus the guy who would play the rest of those lots more minutes!

Even when John was at his very very best -- & in a year where Beal had a breakout season & Porter was absolutely tremendous & Gortat was very good as well -- the Wizards had 49 wins in the weaker conference. Why? Because, that year, we had a whole bunch of guys who played @45% of our minutes & combined to be way way below average in productivity.

I don't care how good your captain is, or how skilled your sailors are. A drag sail slows down your boat!

[Kanyewest]

I just think it wasn't ever in the best interest to super-max Wall even back in 2017. The Wizards still had 2 years with Wall under contract and there were still some things that needed to be worked out like a consistent jumper and his defense that stood out after that playoff loss to the Celtics. Plus it didn't make much sense to allocate that extra money at that point because the Wizards still needed to find another quality point guard. Yes Satoransky turned out to be pretty good- but now with Wall's salary I'mm not sure the Wizards would have been able to keep him anyways.

And if the Wizards had lost Wall to free agency, so be it. It probably meant the Wizards needed to be rebooted anyways if that was the case.

[gambitx777]

The problem is was the Ted being loyal to wall or was that E.G. doing E.G things. ? The world may never know! Imagine if we didn't supermax him but we traded him when he was making 19 say last off season or the deadline before that. . That would have been a decent haul !

I just think it wasn't ever in the best interest to super-max Wall even back in 2017. The Wizards still had 2 years with Wall under contract and there were still some things that needed to be worked out like a consistent jumper and his defense that stood out after that playoff loss to the Celtics. Plus it didn't make much sense to allocate that extra money at that point because the Wizards still needed to find another quality point guard. Yes Satoransky turned out to be pretty good- but now with Wall's salary I'mm not sure the Wizards would have been able to keep him anyways.

And if the Wizards had lost Wall to free agency, so be it. It probably meant the Wizards needed to be rebooted anyways if that was the case.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

With the injury to DeMarcus Cousins the only Center the Lakers have besides Javale McGee is Anthony Davis. He does not want to play center. It's a shame that Ian Mahinmi doesn't have much to offer because it would be great to find some sort of trade with the Lakers.

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[nate33]

With the injury to DeMarcus Cousins the only Center the Lakers have besides Javale McGee is Anthony Davis. He does not want to play center. It's a shame that Ian Mahinmi doesn't have much to offer because it would be great to find some sort of trade with the Lakers.

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The Lakers don't have the salary ballast to make a trade for a contract like Mahinmi's. They're looking for centers on vet minimum deals. Noah seems like the best option IMO.

The reality is that Davis will play center when it matters. They just need a guy to eat up a few minutes at the start of the 1st and 3rd quarters and bang against the opposition's center when he is fresh - soften him up a bit so it will be easier for Davis to bang against him in crunch time.

[nate33]

I just think it wasn't ever in the best interest to super-max Wall even back in 2017. The Wizards still had 2 years with Wall under contract and there were still some things that needed to be worked out like a consistent jumper and his defense that stood out after that playoff loss to the Celtics. Plus it didn't make much sense to allocate that extra money at that point because the Wizards still needed to find another quality point guard. Yes Satoransky turned out to be pretty good- but now with Wall's salary I'mm not sure the Wizards would have been able to keep him anyways.

And if the Wizards had lost Wall to free agency, so be it. It probably meant the Wizards needed to be rebooted anyways if that was the case.

I looked back in the Wall Appreciation Thread (and the Amazingly Sucky John Wall Thread) and didn't really see anyone arguing that he shouldn't be supermaxed at that time. CCJ was the one guy who wondered why there was such a rush. He pointed out that there was no need to supermax him 2 years before his contract was up. The general consensus was that a supermax was perhaps a mild overpay, but it was what we had to do.

Remember, he had just come off his All-NBA year (2nd team) and an impressive playoff run. He averaged 27 and 11 with an ORtg of 112 and took Boston to 7 games.

[DCZards]

I just think it wasn't ever in the best interest to super-max Wall even back in 2017. The Wizards still had 2 years with Wall under contract and there were still some things that needed to be worked out like a consistent jumper and his defense that stood out after that playoff loss to the Celtics. Plus it didn't make much sense to allocate that extra money at that point because the Wizards still needed to find another quality point guard. Yes Satoransky turned out to be pretty good- but now with Wall's salary I'mm not sure the Wizards would have been able to keep him anyways.

And if the Wizards had lost Wall to free agency, so be it. It probably meant the Wizards needed to be rebooted anyways if that was the case.

I looked back in the Wall Appreciation Thread (and the Amazingly Sucky John Wall Thread) and didn't really see anyone arguing that he shouldn't be supermaxed at that time. CCJ was the one guy who wondered why there was such a rush. He pointed out that there was no need to supermax him 2 years before his contract was up. The general consensus was that a supermax was perhaps a mild overpay, but it was what we had to do.

Remember, he had just come off his All-NBA year (2nd team) and an impressive playoff run. He averaged 27 and 11 with an ORtg of 112 and took Boston to 7 games.

Yup...there was very little, if any, opposition on this board to Wall's supermax contract. Truth is, Wall was never going to be worth the supermax. But that's not JW's fault. There are probably less than 10 players in the NBA who are worthy of that kind of money.

Wall's contract has increasingly become a lightening rod primarily because of his injury and unavailability.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I just think it wasn't ever in the best interest to super-max Wall even back in 2017. The Wizards still had 2 years with Wall under contract and there were still some things that needed to be worked out like a consistent jumper and his defense that stood out after that playoff loss to the Celtics. Plus it didn't make much sense to allocate that extra money at that point because the Wizards still needed to find another quality point guard. Yes Satoransky turned out to be pretty good- but now with Wall's salary I'mm not sure the Wizards would have been able to keep him anyways.

And if the Wizards had lost Wall to free agency, so be it. It probably meant the Wizards needed to be rebooted anyways if that was the case.

I looked back in the Wall Appreciation Thread (and the Amazingly Sucky John Wall Thread) and didn't really see anyone arguing that he shouldn't be supermaxed at that time. CCJ was the one guy who wondered why there was such a rush. He pointed out that there was no need to supermax him 2 years before his contract was up. The general consensus was that a supermax was perhaps a mild overpay, but it was what we had to do.

Remember, he had just come off his All-NBA year (2nd team) and an impressive playoff run. He averaged 27 and 11 with an ORtg of 112 and took Boston to 7 games.

For one thing I was born in 1961. For another I was a captain in the Air Force. For another I saw them give Gilbert Arenas too much money. And I saw that make the same damn mistake with John Wall I'm not a genius I've just been kind of observing even if I do have a genius IQ

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Not even going to bother correcting autocorrect

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[Ruzious]

I just think it wasn't ever in the best interest to super-max Wall even back in 2017. The Wizards still had 2 years with Wall under contract and there were still some things that needed to be worked out like a consistent jumper and his defense that stood out after that playoff loss to the Celtics. Plus it didn't make much sense to allocate that extra money at that point because the Wizards still needed to find another quality point guard. Yes Satoransky turned out to be pretty good- but now with Wall's salary I'mm not sure the Wizards would have been able to keep him anyways.

And if the Wizards had lost Wall to free agency, so be it. It probably meant the Wizards needed to be rebooted anyways if that was the case.

I looked back in the Wall Appreciation Thread (and the Amazingly Sucky John Wall Thread) and didn't really see anyone arguing that he shouldn't be supermaxed at that time. CCJ was the one guy who wondered why there was such a rush. He pointed out that there was no need to supermax him 2 years before his contract was up. The general consensus was that a supermax was perhaps a mild overpay, but it was what we had to do.

Remember, he had just come off his All-NBA year (2nd team) and an impressive playoff run. He averaged 27 and 11 with an ORtg of 112 and took Boston to 7 games.

For one thing I was born in 1961. For another I was a captain in the Air Force. For another I saw them give Gilbert Arenas too much money. And I saw that make the same damn mistake with John Wall I'm not a genius I've just been kind of observing even if I do have a genius IQ

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Fwiw, I also recall being very critical of the timing of the Wall extension. And... I was also born in 1961 but was too much of a wimp to consider the Air Force. I thought the Arenas contract was ok at the time he signed - but definitely not the Wall contract.

[Ruzious]

Just a trade thought if I believed we were in win-now mode: Trade Troy Brown Jr and CJ MIles to Minnesota for Robert Covington - the classic 3 and D small forward and the kind of defender that can make a difference in the East - not so much in the West. Minny's going nowhere, so Brown is the kind of player they'd look to develop as a future building block.

[gambitx777]

If the super max is going to be a thing, every CBA needs an amnysty clause built into it, to void bad contracts like this and still pay the player.

[nate33]

Just a trade thought if I believed we were in win-now mode: Trade Troy Brown Jr and CJ MIles to Minnesota for Robert Covington - the classic 3 and D small forward and the kind of defender that can make a difference in the East - not so much in the West. Minny's going nowhere, so Brown is the kind of player they'd look to develop as a future building block.

Yes. That trade would make a lot of sense. Wall, Beal, Covington and Bryant makes a pretty good core.

I still don't love the idea of building around Wall, though. I think even a team of Wall, Beal, Covington, the most optimistic projection of Hachimura, and Bryant peaks out as a 2nd round playoff team with maybe a 25% chance of sneaking into an EC Finals thanks to the poor competition. They'd have no real hope of beating a top tier West team.

I'd much rather dream big. Dump Wall, develop the youth, and hope to find a younger max-caliber free agent to join Beal and the young guys.

[payitforward]

Meh. I don't know what Brown's ceiling is, but he just turned 20 years old. I can't see trading him for about-to-be-29 Robert Covington.

[gambitx777]

Heat get :Wall, Mo , ish
Wiz get : dragic , Winslow, Tyler J
Suns get JJ, a second from Miami, j Jones, the rights to Sannon.

At some point can't be done now anyway. Idk might be worth waiting till wall plays so you don't have to loose mo Sannon and Jones in a trade but if they all say yes at the dead line do you pull the trigger?

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[nate33]

I posted this in the Wagner thread, but thought I'd get some commentary on it here:

Washington trades: Mahinmi + Wagner
Cleveland trades: Thompson

Why for Washington: It gives us a backup big man who can fill our void in rebounding and defense. It also frees up a roster spot so we don't have to cut Jemerrio Jones.

Why for Cleveland: Thompson is not in their future plans. They swap expiring contracts and pick up a Wagner as a prospect to compensate for the downgrade of Mahinmi to Thompson.

Technically, it would be two trades: Mahinmi for Thompson and then Wagner for a TPE, enabling us to make the trade right now instead of waiting until December 15th. The biggest problem I see is that it makes us a little better in the short term which only hurts us long term because we end up with a lower pick. But still, I'm having nightmares about getting destroyed on the boards all season long. Having a monster rebounder like Thompson play 1500 minutes off the bench would mitigate that problem a great deal. And winning a few more games and competing defensively and on the glass helps to develop the right habits for our young players.

[payitforward]

I like it, nate. Only problem I can see is that the Cavs have 15 guys under contract. 2 of them are non-guaranteed, tho -- so it might depend on how much they like Malik Newman & Levi Randolph.

Well... Randolph is about to turn 27 & has never made it in the league; hard to imagine he'd be an impediment.

[queridiculo]

I looked back in the Wall Appreciation Thread (and the Amazingly Sucky John Wall Thread) and didn't really see anyone arguing that he shouldn't be supermaxed at that time. CCJ was the one guy who wondered why there was such a rush. He pointed out that there was no need to supermax him 2 years before his contract was up. The general consensus was that a supermax was perhaps a mild overpay, but it was what we had to do.

Remember, he had just come off his All-NBA year (2nd team) and an impressive playoff run. He averaged 27 and 11 with an ORtg of 112 and took Boston to 7 games.

For one thing I was born in 1961. For another I was a captain in the Air Force. For another I saw them give Gilbert Arenas too much money. And I saw that make the same damn mistake with John Wall I'm not a genius I've just been kind of observing even if I do have a genius IQ

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Fwiw, I also recall being very critical of the timing of the Wall extension. And... I was also born in 1961 but was too much of a wimp to consider the Air Force. I thought the Arenas contract was ok at the time he signed - but definitely not the Wall contract.

I was on board with the Arenas deal, but I didn't care for the Wall extension. The timing didn't make any sense for me, I wasn't convinced he was deserving.

[gambitx777]

Well they could do it just Ian for Thompson that would save them money. Almost 3-4 mill. We could include some cash to save them more money and if we wanted to we could I close J Jones which would cut back their savings and the spot issue but we could also give them Sannon if we have seen enough of him. The team seems to like him a lot.

I like it, nate. Only problem I can see is that the Cavs have 15 guys under contract. 2 of them are non-guaranteed, tho -- so it might depend on how much they like Malik Newman & Levi Randolph.

Well... Randolph is about to turn 27 & has never made it in the league; hard to imagine he'd be an impediment.

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[penbeast0]

Conjuring the ghost of George Allen, the Wiz decide to try to be relevant THIS year.

We send John Wall, Ian Mahinmi, and Davis Bertrans to OKC for Chris Paul and Daniel Gallinari.
We do it to try to be relevant in the East now.

OKC decides by the time they start to turn it around Wall will be worth more than Paul (probably then they make the rumored Adams for Hayward deal to double down on rehab) with Bertrans being a younger and similar player to Gallinari.

If (a BIG IF) we then stay healthy, how far do you think we are likely to go in the East?

I don't think I'd even do this but just for thought . . .