Official Offseason thread Vol 3: Bck2BACK

[MartyConlonJr]

"I'll tell you the interesting thing," Cuban said, "after Game 3 of the Miami series, our guys said, 'They aren't making any adjustments. We got 'em.' And so the confidence was through the roof."

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/fl-xpm-2011-08-30-sfl-miami-heat-mark-cuban-s083011-story.html

[HEATVols865]

Wade, LeBron, and Bosh easily played the most efficient basketball of their careers, during that four-year run, as a direct result of Spo's system. That efficiency got them two titles in four years. Would have been three had LeBron not shriveled up against Dallas the first season. He ultimately ended up costing Wade a second Finals MVP in the process as well.

Correction 3 had spo benched Bibby and started chalmers when Dallas benched JKid and started barrea, Rick Carlisle said it himself "all they needed to do was an adjustment that never came"

When did he say that?

Spo really did botch that series

And the Spurs series...the man is a **** coach! If someone offers a first round pick for him you take that deal any day of the week and twice on the weekends

[HEATVols865]

"I'll tell you the interesting thing," Cuban said, "after Game 3 of the Miami series, our guys said, 'They aren't making any adjustments. We got 'em.' And so the confidence was through the roof."

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/fl-xpm-2011-08-30-sfl-miami-heat-mark-cuban-s083011-story.html

And yet, Spo is still our coach...he should stick to what he knows best. Videos. Maybe he can have his own channel on Xvideos or own a bunch of Redbox machines...because he has no business coaching basketball.

[HeatGuyInChicago]

I am amazed how brazen people can be with their opinions when there is no accountability behind a keyboard. To say that he is not even qualified to be a head coach is ludicrous. It is not only a slap on the face to Eric Spoelstra but also to Pat Riley.

[HeatGuyInChicago]

As far as adjustments, LeBron is the best player in the league. Do you really think Mario Chalmers would have equaled the lack of production from LeBron? You run with your best horses in the game. That failure in the Finals made LeBron into the player he is today.

[AirP.]

Simple fact:

Bosh was more important to our titles than Lebron. There are very few elite players so humble that they can accept being a third wheel. Not rock the boat. And then cooly come up with big plays when the supposed superstar freezes.

No.

I can understand Bosh sacrificing the most for the team but that doesn't make him the most important player in those title runs. The simple fact is that Miami could have traded Bosh for a lesser player who could play Bosh's eventual role on the team much easier then trading LeBron to replace his role on the team.

NO.

Without Bosh (and with a "lesser" player) we wouldn't have won a championship. LeBrick was essential but Bosh was also essential.

Without LeBron Miami's just a solid to good playoff team, not really a legit contender. Without Bosh Miami would have still been a contender. By far, Lebron and Wade were way more worrisome to other teams then Bosh was. Bosh was a key player, but he was nowhere near as important as either LeBron or Wade, I'm guessing you're coming from the angle of LeBron and Wade somewhat overlapping skill set where as Bosh didn't have anyone who could basically duplicate his skillset, once again Miami could have went out and found someone good enough to win a championship without Bosh, the same could not be said of trading Lebron, which we saw LeBron leading bad teams to the finals before Miami and then carrying not as strong teams to the finals after Miami. Bosh got nowhere close while in Toronto.

My big stat I like to go to is the Dean Oliver's(not nba.com's) ORTG and DRTG when comparing players in somewhat the same situation like starter vs backup. In those playoffs Lebron's overall(ORTG-DRTG) for those playoffs went like this(since it tries to single out a player's impact to the team based off what the individual and the team actually did while on the court). It just shows me their impact on the team when they play, the more minutes(which LeBron constantly played more then Bosh) the better.
LeBron
10-11 (113, 102) +11
11-12 (116, 99) +17
12-13 (118, 101) +17
13-14 (124, 107) +17
Bosh
10-11 (111, 104) +7
11-12 (115, 102) +13
12-13 (108, 100) +8
13-14 (119, 110) +9

The impact per 100 possessions aren't even close. LeBron's playoff ORTG-DRTG are somewhere in the same ballpark as M.Jordan's.

[HeatGuyInChicago]

You are not going to give Eric Spoelstra some level of competency for drawing up this play in the playoffs during the final seconds. A coach that was incompetent would not have noticed Paul George overplaying a side.

Watch on YouTube

[gom]

Just checking in to see how far the thread has sunk and how long until the season starts. On the bright side, we didn't trade for Chris Paul or John Wall yet.

[Bishop45]

Justise>

Read on Twitter

[HIF]

No.

I can understand Bosh sacrificing the most for the team but that doesn't make him the most important player in those title runs. The simple fact is that Miami could have traded Bosh for a lesser player who could play Bosh's eventual role on the team much easier then trading LeBron to replace his role on the team.

NO.

Without Bosh (and with a "lesser" player) we wouldn't have won a championship. LeBrick was essential but Bosh was also essential.

Without LeBron Miami's just a solid to good playoff team, not really a legit contender. Without Bosh Miami would have still been a contender. By far, Lebron and Wade were way more worrisome to other teams then Bosh was. Bosh was a key player, but he was nowhere near as important as either LeBron or Wade, I'm guessing you're coming from the angle of LeBron and Wade somewhat overlapping skill set where as Bosh didn't have anyone who could basically duplicate his skillset, once again Miami could have went out and found someone good enough to win a championship without Bosh, the same could not be said of trading Lebron, which we saw LeBron leading bad teams to the finals before Miami and then carrying not as strong teams to the finals after Miami. Bosh got nowhere close while in Toronto.

My big stat I like to go to is the Dean Oliver's(not nba.com's) ORTG and DRTG when comparing players in somewhat the same situation like starter vs backup. In those playoffs Lebron's overall(ORTG-DRTG) for those playoffs went like this(since it tries to single out a player's impact to the team based off what the individual and the team actually did while on the court). It just shows me their impact on the team when they play, the more minutes(which LeBron constantly played more then Bosh) the better.
LeBron
10-11 (113, 102) +11
11-12 (116, 99) +17
12-13 (118, 101) +17
13-14 (124, 107) +17
Bosh
10-11 (111, 104) +7
11-12 (115, 102) +13
12-13 (108, 100) +8
13-14 (119, 110) +9

The impact per 100 possessions aren't even close. LeBron's playoff ORTG-DRTG are somewhere in the same ballpark as M.Jordan's.

Without Bosh we wouldn't have won a championship.

Reply again with whatever crap you want.

[wadenation305]

Wade, LeBron, and Bosh easily played the most efficient basketball of their careers, during that four-year run, as a direct result of Spo's system. That efficiency got them two titles in four years. Would have been three had LeBron not shriveled up against Dallas the first season. He ultimately ended up costing Wade a second Finals MVP in the process as well.

Correction 3 had spo benched Bibby and started chalmers when Dallas benched JKid and started barrea, Rick Carlisle said it himself "all they needed to do was an adjustment that never came"

When did he say that?

Spo really did botch that series

Interviewed on CNN's "Piers Morgan Live," choosing his words carefully amid the NBA lockout, Cuban offered his view on how the Mavericks took this past June's NBA Finals in six games, after falling behind 2-1 in the best-of-seven series.

"I'll tell you the interesting thing," Cuban said, "after Game 3 of the Miami series, our guys said, 'They aren't making any adjustments. We got 'em.' And so the confidence was through the roof."


Among the changes made during the series by the Mavericks was inserting point guard J.J. Barea into the starting lineup in place of shooting guard DeShawn Stevenson, and replacing sharpshooter Peja Stojakovic in the rotation with the more aggressive presence of forward Brian Cardinal. The Mavericks also adjusted their offense to take advantage of the Heat's aggressive close-out defense on outside shooters.

The lone notable Heat adjustment was moving point guard Mario Chalmers into the starting lineup in place of Mike Bibby for Game 6, after falling behind 3-2 in the series. Spoelstra elected not to utilize 3-point specialist James Jones in the series and only fleetingly utilized reserve guard Eddie House.


This one was mark cuban but I remember Rick saying the same thing in tv but it’s hard to find online, Spo really isn’t that good, he sticks to scrubs and is a robot, everything about him is robotic, he has no feel for the game and doesn’t make right substitutions or even pulls the guy with the hot hand

[Duke4life831]

Do your research then get back at me.

The onus to prove that is yours...you brought it up as a fact

Was curious on this so I looked.

LeBron career high TS% was 64.9% with his last year in Miami
Bosh career high TS% 59% twice and he did them both in Miami
Wade career high TS% was 58% and he did that 3 times, twice under Spo

[KingDavid]

No.

I can understand Bosh sacrificing the most for the team but that doesn't make him the most important player in those title runs. The simple fact is that Miami could have traded Bosh for a lesser player who could play Bosh's eventual role on the team much easier then trading LeBron to replace his role on the team.

NO.

Without Bosh (and with a "lesser" player) we wouldn't have won a championship. LeBrick was essential but Bosh was also essential.

Without LeBron Miami's just a solid to good playoff team, not really a legit contender. Without Bosh Miami would have still been a contender. By far, Lebron and Wade were way more worrisome to other teams then Bosh was. Bosh was a key player, but he was nowhere near as important as either LeBron or Wade, I'm guessing you're coming from the angle of LeBron and Wade somewhat overlapping skill set where as Bosh didn't have anyone who could basically duplicate his skillset, once again Miami could have went out and found someone good enough to win a championship without Bosh, the same could not be said of trading Lebron, which we saw LeBron leading bad teams to the finals before Miami and then carrying not as strong teams to the finals after Miami. Bosh got nowhere close while in Toronto.

My big stat I like to go to is the Dean Oliver's(not nba.com's) ORTG and DRTG when comparing players in somewhat the same situation like starter vs backup. In those playoffs Lebron's overall(ORTG-DRTG) for those playoffs went like this(since it tries to single out a player's impact to the team based off what the individual and the team actually did while on the court). It just shows me their impact on the team when they play, the more minutes(which LeBron constantly played more then Bosh) the better.
LeBron
10-11 (113, 102) +11
11-12 (116, 99) +17
12-13 (118, 101) +17
13-14 (124, 107) +17
Bosh
10-11 (111, 104) +7
11-12 (115, 102) +13
12-13 (108, 100) +8
13-14 (119, 110) +9

The impact per 100 possessions aren't even close. LeBron's playoff ORTG-DRTG are somewhere in the same ballpark as M.Jordan's.

Huh? In either scenario, we'd have an open max slot. We'd have a great bench or another star. Did you fall on your head? Why wouldn't we be contenders with that amount of money on the table?

[AirP.]

NO.

Without Bosh (and with a "lesser" player) we wouldn't have won a championship. LeBrick was essential but Bosh was also essential.

Without LeBron Miami's just a solid to good playoff team, not really a legit contender. Without Bosh Miami would have still been a contender. By far, Lebron and Wade were way more worrisome to other teams then Bosh was. Bosh was a key player, but he was nowhere near as important as either LeBron or Wade, I'm guessing you're coming from the angle of LeBron and Wade somewhat overlapping skill set where as Bosh didn't have anyone who could basically duplicate his skillset, once again Miami could have went out and found someone good enough to win a championship without Bosh, the same could not be said of trading Lebron, which we saw LeBron leading bad teams to the finals before Miami and then carrying not as strong teams to the finals after Miami. Bosh got nowhere close while in Toronto.

My big stat I like to go to is the Dean Oliver's(not nba.com's) ORTG and DRTG when comparing players in somewhat the same situation like starter vs backup. In those playoffs Lebron's overall(ORTG-DRTG) for those playoffs went like this(since it tries to single out a player's impact to the team based off what the individual and the team actually did while on the court). It just shows me their impact on the team when they play, the more minutes(which LeBron constantly played more then Bosh) the better.
LeBron
10-11 (113, 102) +11
11-12 (116, 99) +17
12-13 (118, 101) +17
13-14 (124, 107) +17
Bosh
10-11 (111, 104) +7
11-12 (115, 102) +13
12-13 (108, 100) +8
13-14 (119, 110) +9

The impact per 100 possessions aren't even close. LeBron's playoff ORTG-DRTG are somewhere in the same ballpark as M.Jordan's.

Huh? In either scenario, we'd have an open max slot. We'd have a great bench or another star. Did you fall on your head? Why wouldn't we be contenders with that amount of money on the table?

Who's taking LeBron's spot and making the Heat a real contender from that free agent class? Boozer? Amar'e? J.Johnson?

[AirP.]

Without Bosh we wouldn't have won a championship.

Reply again with whatever crap you want.

Ah, you're one of those "your opinion" is worth more then data, got it.

You're really down playing LeBron and Wade in this situation where you've said Bosh was more important then LeBron for the titles.

Simple fact:

Bosh was more important to our titles than Lebron. There are very few elite players so humble that they can accept being a third wheel. Not rock the boat. And then cooly come up with big plays when the supposed superstar freezes.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1873491&start=1500

Bosh did lead Toronto to 1(out of 7) seasons to .500 or better while LeBron was carrying a bad Cavs teams to 60+ win seasons and got them to the finals.

Ah.. you're a LeBron hater, got it.

[Beenie]

Quick recap of the recent non-news news:

-Miami is considering releasing a nonguaranteed contract (twitter speculation Nunn) to make room to add a FA. It's speculated that they have interest in Carmelo Anthony.

-Thunder is still reluctant to relinquish any of their draft picks to move CP3. Mia insists on getting their 2 picks back in such a deal.

-Beal would consider coming to Mia as a FA in 2021

Scintillating stuff, guys.

[twix2500]

Without Bosh we wouldn't have won a championship.

Reply again with whatever crap you want.

Ah, you're one of those "your opinion" is worth more then data, got it.

You're really down playing LeBron and Wade in this situation where you've said Bosh was more important then LeBron for the titles.

Simple fact:

Bosh was more important to our titles than Lebron. There are very few elite players so humble that they can accept being a third wheel. Not rock the boat. And then cooly come up with big plays when the supposed superstar freezes.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1873491&start=1500

Bosh did lead Toronto to 1(out of 7) seasons to .500 or better while LeBron was carrying a bad Cavs teams to 60+ win seasons and got them to the finals.

Ah.. you're a LeBron hater, got it.

He is not implying Bosh was a better player than LeBron. He implying Bosh uniqueness/versatility was vital for the Heat to run Spo system. That Wade could have taken a lot of LeBron role at an elite level in Spo system if the Heat did not get Lebron, but there was no player at that time who could play Bosh role in Spo system (defensively or offensively) at a high level. So implying how Bosh and LeBron worked on other teams is irrelevant. The biggest challenge the Heat had when they acquired the Big 3 was how to find roles for James and Wade without getting in each other way. The answer was move Bosh to the stretch five, utilize Wade less. Wade would have to free lance more off the ball to replace some of his touches that he gave away to Lebron. Bosh was capable of adjusting his game to make Wade and James work and still play at a high level. Bosh would also carry more of an offensive load in the absence of LeBron or Wade and would not get in each other player way.

It's similar to running backs in the NFL. A classic greeat running back can still have a great impact, but due to the change in systems they have become less important. Or middle linebackers in the NFL. Marshall Faulk is a fine a fine example his versatility allowed the Rams to run their system.

In anotherwords, Bosh was more impactful to Wade or LeBron efficiency than LeBron or Wade was to each other. Ala, a duo of Bosh and LeBron or Bosh and Wade would be easier to build around than Wade and LeBron as a duo. Also, heat would not had a max third slot. The big 3 didn't get the Max

On a smaller scale, Joel Anthony was important because he was capable of running the system defensively regardless that he was a hot garbage of a player. I'm just trying to give context on what people mean when they say Bosh was the most important player.


Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

[Mars]

IMHO we would have won in spite of lebron’s performance, but in typical spo fashion he held on to the rope attached to that dead horse he keeps beating till it’s too late. He always waited till we’re in a hole then bring charmers in, if spo would just do adjustments from time to time it wouldn’t have been even close in spite of lebron’s no show. And I’m not just talking about one game, I talking about all of them.

LeBron scored 8 points in Game 4. He played all 12 minutes of the fourth quarter and took "ONE" shot... let that marinate.

Total Minutes Played: 2010-11 NBA Finals

Bibby: 86 min (17.2 min per game)
Chalmers: 173 min (28.8 min per game)

[wadenation305]

IMHO we would have won in spite of lebron’s performance, but in typical spo fashion he held on to the rope attached to that dead horse he keeps beating till it’s too late. He always waited till we’re in a hole then bring charmers in, if spo would just do adjustments from time to time it wouldn’t have been even close in spite of lebron’s no show. And I’m not just talking about one game, I talking about all of them.

LeBron scored 8 points in Game 4. He played all 12 minutes of the fourth quarter and took "ONE" shot... let that marinate.

Total Minutes Played: 2010-11 NBA Finals

Bibby: 86 min (17.2 min per game)
Chalmers: 173 min (28.8 min per game)

No one is saying bench Bron for chalmers, it's bench Bibby for chalmers when Bibby was being murdered by barea, yes Bron choked and played horrible, but even with him playing like Doo Doo make that adjustment and we would have still won, in true spo fashion he starts us at a disadvantage and ride's it till we have no other option. There are things he does well but the ones he does bad are very glaring and hinder the team. Feel for the game and substitutions are not amongst the things he does well

[BenoUdrihFTL]

This offseason went from real exciting to real boring real fast lol

We seem to be in a holding pattern for now regarding trades so how about remaining FAs? I wouldn't mind plugging some roster soft spots with Joakim Noah and even... yes... Melo lol (assuming of course at the bare minimum salary allowable). Noah could provide some frontcourt value off the bench if he's load managed and we've really got nothing to lose by experimenting with Melo in a limited role. Both guys would figure to be low risk/mild reward signings