RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20

[TheBoi10]

People really voting supreme chucker Mormon Monta Ellis

[NZB2323]

Kyle Lowry will be 33 next year and Mitchell will be 23. Mitchell is killing it with Team USA and will have more spacing with Conley and Bojan. Lowry has been drinking champagne and will have less spacing with Kawhi gone.

[iggymcfrack]

This **** isn’t even fair anymore Paul or Mitchell should of been this and the last spot but now the voting is getting stuffed

Cry me a river.

Mitchell is not better than Siakam or Simmons. I don't know what else to you.
The numbers don't lie!

I love Spida but he really hasn't done enough in this league to justify him being a top 25 player.

The next two spots should go to Lowry and Paul.

There should be more weight being the first option on a playoff team in the west. You put Mitchell with Kawhi and the attention he can draw and I’m sure his advanced numbers would greatly jump. There is a big under appreciation for the work load Mitchell has to carry the way that roster was built.

Lowry and Paul have both spent time as the first option. Lowry did it a ton last year while Kawhi was doing his load management and the Raptors were even better going 17-5 with Lowry and without Kawhi with Lowry's stats improving greatly over that period as well. Paul's done it his whole career and when Harden was on the bench last year, Paul was a loads better player averaging 23/5/13 on .584 TS%. There's no reason to think they couldn't fulfill Mitchell's role better than he does it. Likewise, there's no reason to think that Mitchell would suddenly become hyper-efficient in a new role that he hasn't really worked at.

[iggymcfrack]

Kyle Lowry will be 33 next year and Mitchell will be 23. Mitchell is killing it with Team USA and will have more spacing with Conley and Bojan. Lowry has been drinking champagne and will have less spacing with Kawhi gone.

This is the second time I've heard "Mitchell is killing it with Team USA" as an explanation for why he's likely to make a giant leap to the level of Paul and Lowry. They've played one friendly where Mitchell had 13/4/0 on 5/10 shooting. Am I really supposed to be that impressed with that performance? Middleton was 12/3/3 on 5/7 shooting. Jaylen Brown had 9/4/1 on 4/5 shooting in 10 minutes. Should we be projecting huge leaps for them as well based on a single exhibition performance? Or is it the scrimmage where Mitchell had 8/2/4 on 3/7 shooting that's lighting the world on fire?

[KqWIN]

Cry me a river.

Mitchell is not better than Siakam or Simmons. I don't know what else to you.
The numbers don't lie!

I love Spida but he really hasn't done enough in this league to justify him being a top 25 player.

The next two spots should go to Lowry and Paul.

There should be more weight being the first option on a playoff team in the west. You put Mitchell with Kawhi and the attention he can draw and I’m sure his advanced numbers would greatly jump. There is a big under appreciation for the work load Mitchell has to carry the way that roster was built.

Lowry and Paul have both spent time as the first option. Lowry did it a ton last year while Kawhi was doing his load management and the Raptors were even better going 17-5 with Lowry and without Kawhi with Lowry's stats improving greatly over that period as well. Paul's done it his whole career and when Harden was on the bench last year, Paul was a loads better player averaging 23/5/13 on .584 TS%. There's no reason to think they couldn't fulfill Mitchell's role better than he does it. Likewise, there's no reason to think that Mitchell would suddenly become hyper-efficient in a new role that he hasn't really worked at.

This is an issue with grouping players into first option, second option etc. When Kawhi was out, I suppose Lowry was the number one option. But it wasn't remotely similar to Mitchell's role despite the "first option" label being the same. It's not just how much of the offense they consume, it's the role players around them. It's just a completely different context.

[NZB2323]

Kyle Lowry will be 33 next year and Mitchell will be 23. Mitchell is killing it with Team USA and will have more spacing with Conley and Bojan. Lowry has been drinking champagne and will have less spacing with Kawhi gone.

This is the second time I've heard "Mitchell is killing it with Team USA" as an explanation for why he's likely to make a giant leap to the level of Paul and Lowry. They've played one friendly where Mitchell had 13/4/0 on 5/10 shooting. Am I really supposed to be that impressed with that performance? Middleton was 12/3/3 on 5/7 shooting. Jaylen Brown had 9/4/1 on 4/5 shooting in 10 minutes. Should we be projecting huge leaps for them as well based on a single exhibition performance? Or is it the scrimmage where Mitchell had 8/2/4 on 3/7 shooting that's lighting the world on fire?

Multiple people have said in interviews that he's been the most impressive person in camp.

[KqWIN]

Kyle Lowry will be 33 next year and Mitchell will be 23. Mitchell is killing it with Team USA and will have more spacing with Conley and Bojan. Lowry has been drinking champagne and will have less spacing with Kawhi gone.

This is the second time I've heard "Mitchell is killing it with Team USA" as an explanation for why he's likely to make a giant leap to the level of Paul and Lowry. They've played one friendly where Mitchell had 13/4/0 on 5/10 shooting. Am I really supposed to be that impressed with that performance? Middleton was 12/3/3 on 5/7 shooting. Jaylen Brown had 9/4/1 on 4/5 shooting in 10 minutes. Should we be projecting huge leaps for them as well based on a single exhibition performance? Or is it the scrimmage where Mitchell had 8/2/4 on 3/7 shooting that's lighting the world on fire?

The reports out of camp are more important than the exhibitions. The exhibitions don't really matter all that much because it's such a small sample size. Team USA has proven to be a launching pad for rising stars in the past. It's not a unique opinion at all. Mitchell being reported as the breakout player in camp is a really valid reason to think he's doing well.

[iggymcfrack]

There should be more weight being the first option on a playoff team in the west. You put Mitchell with Kawhi and the attention he can draw and I’m sure his advanced numbers would greatly jump. There is a big under appreciation for the work load Mitchell has to carry the way that roster was built.

Lowry and Paul have both spent time as the first option. Lowry did it a ton last year while Kawhi was doing his load management and the Raptors were even better going 17-5 with Lowry and without Kawhi with Lowry's stats improving greatly over that period as well. Paul's done it his whole career and when Harden was on the bench last year, Paul was a loads better player averaging 23/5/13 on .584 TS%. There's no reason to think they couldn't fulfill Mitchell's role better than he does it. Likewise, there's no reason to think that Mitchell would suddenly become hyper-efficient in a new role that he hasn't really worked at.

This is an issue with grouping players into first option, second option etc. When Kawhi was out, I suppose Lowry was the number one option. But it wasn't remotely similar to Mitchell's role despite the "first option" label being the same. It's not just how much of the offense they consume, it's the role players around them. It's just a completely different context.

Sure, Lowry's a pass-first PG while Mitchell's a score first SG. They don't play the same. But Lowry was more effective as a #1 option than Mitchell was. That's the important thing. So if Lowry was better as the first option, a much better defender, and the second best #2 option in the league, there's no reason to think Mitchell's more valuable just because he didn't happen to have a better scorer on his team.

[ZemGOAT]

Lowry

[Catchall]

#RaptorsHomers

[Yallbecrazy]

Kyle Lowry will be 33 next year and Mitchell will be 23. Mitchell is killing it with Team USA and will have more spacing with Conley and Bojan. Lowry has been drinking champagne and will have less spacing with Kawhi gone.

Spacing? Lowry? Lowry doesn't need spacing- he provides the spacing and gets spacing for others

[KqWIN]

Lowry and Paul have both spent time as the first option. Lowry did it a ton last year while Kawhi was doing his load management and the Raptors were even better going 17-5 with Lowry and without Kawhi with Lowry's stats improving greatly over that period as well. Paul's done it his whole career and when Harden was on the bench last year, Paul was a loads better player averaging 23/5/13 on .584 TS%. There's no reason to think they couldn't fulfill Mitchell's role better than he does it. Likewise, there's no reason to think that Mitchell would suddenly become hyper-efficient in a new role that he hasn't really worked at.

This is an issue with grouping players into first option, second option etc. When Kawhi was out, I suppose Lowry was the number one option. But it wasn't remotely similar to Mitchell's role despite the "first option" label being the same. It's not just how much of the offense they consume, it's the role players around them. It's just a completely different context.

Sure, Lowry's a pass-first PG while Mitchell's a score first SG. They don't play the same. But Lowry was more effective as a #1 option than Mitchell was. That's the important thing. So if Lowry was better as the first option, a much better defender, and the second best #2 option in the league, there's no reason to think Mitchell's more valuable just because he didn't happen to have a better scorer on his team.

You kinda skipped the point there. Lowry's first option isn't remotely similar to Mitchell's first option. It's comparing apples to oranges. The whole "first option" tag isn't very descriptive. Lowry's usage when Kawhi did not play is very similar to Ricky Rubio, for example. We're not even in the same ballpark. If we're trying to be correct here, we should probably describe a player's burden by his burden and not these high level labels that don't describe anything in actuality.

If you wanted to play that game of switching scenarios, you would need to put Lowry on a team with no other shot creators and 2-3 non shooters or bad shooters always on the court. Similarly, you would have to envision Mitchell on a team like the Raptors with exceptionally good shooting and passing at most positions.

Mitchell was a first option last year and will remain the first option, but he's in a completely different context. The grouping is not very useful so we just think about the actual team situation, don't you think? You can't just assume that he'll be amazing in the new situation, but it is safe to assume that the situation he was the last two years was very difficult to succeed in.

[NZB2323]

Kyle Lowry will be 33 next year and Mitchell will be 23. Mitchell is killing it with Team USA and will have more spacing with Conley and Bojan. Lowry has been drinking champagne and will have less spacing with Kawhi gone.

Spacing? Lowry? Lowry doesn't need spacing- he provides the spacing and gets spacing for others

Everyone does better with more spacing. If Kawhi draws a double team or the guy guarding Kawhi is glued onto him and can't play help defense that opens things up.

[And1+2]

I'm going to go with the only NBA champion without a debilitating injury on the list.

[GusT15]

I have the outmost respect for Raptor fans,who despite of the overwhelming power they have in these boards #wise,they didn't hijack the voting earlier.
#23 and #24 means they waited long enough to not irritate other fanbases.
(It is pretty funny to see "go vote Lowry" threads in their board ofc)

On a personal note,voted for Mitchell on this one (but i have Siakam on my top20 so we're cool)

[ThatClockWork]

Kyle Lowry will be 33 next year and Mitchell will be 23. Mitchell is killing it with Team USA and will have more spacing with Conley and Bojan. Lowry has been drinking champagne and will have less spacing with Kawhi gone.

Okay? Those are all speculative in nature. While I appreciate the hot take, you really can't back any of this up.

[TheNewEra]

I have the outmost respect for Raptor fans,who despite of the overwhelming power they have in these boards #wise,they didn't hijack the voting earlier.
#23 and #24 means they waited long enough to not irritate other fanbases.
(It is pretty funny to see "go vote Lowry" threads in their board ofc)

On a personal note,voted for Mitchell on this one (but i have Siakam on my top20 so we're cool)

Exactly because when I last checked for 23 Paul and Mitchell were about at the forefront. A day or so later and Siakam won I’m like wtf

[refshateRaps]

Ben Simmons made to 25?

Aside from being a big body guy has been pure trash. Lowry should be way higher on the list

[KqWIN]

Kyle Lowry will be 33 next year and Mitchell will be 23. Mitchell is killing it with Team USA and will have more spacing with Conley and Bojan. Lowry has been drinking champagne and will have less spacing with Kawhi gone.

Okay? Those are all speculative in nature. While I appreciate the hot take, you really can't back any of this up.

Besides the champagne comment, which is obviously in jest, it's not speculative. It's either a fact or very easy to back up. Are you arguing any of these points?

Lowry will literally be 33 and Mitchell 23.

Every report has Mitchell killing with team USA.

Bojan and Conley clearly provide more spacing than Rubio, Favors, and Crowder.

Of course Lowry will have less spacing with Kawhi, who commanded double teams the second he touched the ball.

[Edrees]

Hey everyone, let's vote Durant for the 25th spot next poll. Please do it. The ultimate retribution for not taking him off the list.

I voted for Lowry. Honestly with fine with either Lowry or CP3