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Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj

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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#721 » by payitforward » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:26 pm

Why is anyone thinking Bobby Portis will be on the team? Why does anyone want Bobby Portis on the team?

I suppose we may extend his qualifying offer, & if no one gives him a better deal, he'll be with us one more year. But, I doubt it. I can't imagine a new GM feeling like he has to justify yet another Ernie idiocy.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#722 » by nate33 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:39 pm

payitforward wrote:Why is anyone thinking Bobby Portis will be on the team? Why does anyone want Bobby Portis on the team?

I suppose we may extend his qualifying offer, & if no one gives him a better deal, he'll be with us one more year. But, I doubt it. I can't imagine a new GM feeling like he has to justify yet another Ernie idiocy.

Bobby Portis is a luxury we cannot afford so long as we're paying 50% of our cap to players who won't even contribute (Wall and Mahinmi). Portis is a decent player, but he's not so much better than a vet minimum guy that it's worth the cap hit - not when our cap situation is so constrained. Why pay Portis $15M when you can get a guy like Jaymichael Green for half of that, or a guy like Faried for even less than half, or Mike Muscala for possibly the vet minimum?
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#723 » by Rainwater » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:35 am

payitforward wrote:Why is anyone thinking Bobby Portis will be on the team? Why does anyone want Bobby Portis on the team?

I suppose we may extend his qualifying offer, & if no one gives him a better deal, he'll be with us one more year. But, I doubt it. I can't imagine a new GM feeling like he has to justify yet another Ernie idiocy.


Yeah, I thought it was a foregone conclusion that Portis would be gone. If anything I thought it was Parker the Wiz would try to keep. He literally out played Portis and showed so much potential.
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Re: Howard to sign a 1 year deal for the tax MLE with the Washington Wizards 

Post#724 » by closg00 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:44 am

CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:Even if cancer, his cancerous numbers blow Gortat's numbers out of the water with only about 5 minutes more per game. Not saying it was all on him, but this seems like at the very least a solid uptick.


Turns-out, he was a cancer
https://sports.yahoo.com/wizards-gm-calls-dwight-howard-130008239.html
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Re: Howard to sign a 1 year deal for the tax MLE with the Washington Wizards 

Post#725 » by queridiculo » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:06 pm

closg00 wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:Even if cancer, his cancerous numbers blow Gortat's numbers out of the water with only about 5 minutes more per game. Not saying it was all on him, but this seems like at the very least a solid uptick.


Turns-out, he was a cancer
https://sports.yahoo.com/wizards-gm-calls-dwight-howard-130008239.html


To be fair, IIRC this comment was framed in the context of Bryant's return, and the club making it abundantly clear that there wasn't going to be a big role available for Howard due to their commitment to TBJ.

Some selective quoting in that article to give an impression that's not backed up by anything that officials of the team have publicly said.
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Re: Howard to sign a 1 year deal for the tax MLE with the Washington Wizards 

Post#726 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:28 pm

closg00 wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:Even if cancer, his cancerous numbers blow Gortat's numbers out of the water with only about 5 minutes more per game. Not saying it was all on him, but this seems like at the very least a solid uptick.


Turns-out, he was a cancer
https://sports.yahoo.com/wizards-gm-calls-dwight-howard-130008239.html


Stand humbly corrected on that one.
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Re: Howard to sign a 1 year deal for the tax MLE with the Washington Wizards 

Post#727 » by verbal8 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:44 pm

CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:
closg00 wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:Even if cancer, his cancerous numbers blow Gortat's numbers out of the water with only about 5 minutes more per game. Not saying it was all on him, but this seems like at the very least a solid uptick.


Turns-out, he was a cancer
https://sports.yahoo.com/wizards-gm-calls-dwight-howard-130008239.html


Stand humbly corrected on that one.


I think it was more eagerness to get CJ Miles in exchange for a player not in the teams future, but I am not sure really about the reasoning for that.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#728 » by payitforward » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:28 pm

No, it was eagerness to get Howard off the team -- as Sheppard indicated clearly; when asked about having traded Howard, he replied it was the fastest trade he'd ever made.

C.J. Miles is no more in the team's future than Dwight was.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#729 » by queridiculo » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:52 pm

payitforward wrote:No, it was eagerness to get Howard off the team -- as Sheppard indicated clearly; when asked about having traded Howard, he replied it was the fastest trade he'd ever made.

C.J. Miles is no more in the team's future than Dwight was.


Read on Twitter


No GM in their right mind would ever give the impression that he is bad mouthing players.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#730 » by payitforward » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:20 pm

Correct, of course -- hence Tommy's reframing of his remark. But, my comment was in response to the idea that we traded with Memphis, because we were eager to acquire C.J. Miles.

Note that Tommy doesn't say anything like that. I.e., it was "eagerness to get Howard off the team" all the same.

Were we eager, because we couldn't offer Dwight a starting job? What do you think...?
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#731 » by payitforward » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:39 pm

Read on Twitter

Had we simply cut Howard, we would be "Memphis" in this tweet.

We wouldn't have the corpse of C.J. Miles on the roster, we'd be paying out @$6m less in salary, & we'd have to cut one less player to get down to 15.

(I'm sure someone will respond what a valuable player C.J. Miles is. If that's what you're thinking, maybe you want to read that tweet again: the Grizzlies "never intended to bring Howard to camp." So, why'd they make the trade? To get rid of C.J. Miles, lower their salary, & get that extra roster spot -- i.e. what I just said.)
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#732 » by verbal8 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:24 pm

payitforward wrote:
Read on Twitter

Had we simply cut Howard, we would be "Memphis" in this tweet.

We wouldn't have the corpse of C.J. Miles on the roster, we'd be paying out @$6m less in salary, & we'd have to cut one less player to get down to 15.

(I'm sure someone will respond what a valuable player C.J. Miles is. If that's what you're thinking, maybe you want to read that tweet again: the Grizzlies "never intended to bring Howard to camp." So, why'd they make the trade? To get rid of C.J. Miles, lower their salary, & get that extra roster spot -- i.e. what I just said.)


They went from wasting most of a $8.7 million salary to only having $3 million in "dead money". Given the way the bottom of the Free Agent market looked, the Wizards would have been able to put that $5.7 million to better use than the corpse of CJ Miles.

One option the waiving Dwight Howard transaction would have opened up is using one of the TPEs - either to get a useful player or an asset.

If we were talking about a healthy 25-year old CJ Miles, this would be a completely different story.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#733 » by nate33 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:33 pm

payitforward wrote:
Read on Twitter

Had we simply cut Howard, we would be "Memphis" in this tweet.

We wouldn't have the corpse of C.J. Miles on the roster, we'd be paying out @$6m less in salary, & we'd have to cut one less player to get down to 15.

(I'm sure someone will respond what a valuable player C.J. Miles is. If that's what you're thinking, maybe you want to read that tweet again: the Grizzlies "never intended to bring Howard to camp." So, why'd they make the trade? To get rid of C.J. Miles, lower their salary, & get that extra roster spot -- i.e. what I just said.)

Yup. I made the same point in the Discussing Other Teams Moves thread. Basically, we are paying $6M for CJ Miles. If we never made that trade, we'd have that $6M to spend elsewhere.

With 20/20 hindsight on this offseason, I really would have preferred to just keep Sato at $9.5M rather than Ish at $6M and Miles (effectively at $6M). It would have given us the better player and saved $3.5M and a roster spot. That $3.5M saved, plus the approximately $3M we currently have in luxtax space could have been used to acquire some other short contract and a 2nd round pick (to make up for the 2nd round pick we didn't acquire in the Sato transaction). Or it could have been used on a young free agent (like the oft mentioned Noah Vonleh).

Ah, what could have been...

PG Sato/Thomas
SG Beal/Thomas
SF Brown/Hachimura
PF Bertans/Hachimura
C Bryant/Vonleh

That's a perfectly competitive (in the East) 8-man rotation if Thomas is any semblance of his pre-Boston self. The defense is so much better with Sato and Vonleh instead of Ish and Wagner.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#734 » by verbal8 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:54 pm

Sato on a reasonable deal seems like the type of role players that well-run teams use to fill out their roster.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#735 » by payitforward » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:59 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:
Read on Twitter

Had we simply cut Howard, we would be "Memphis" in this tweet.

We wouldn't have the corpse of C.J. Miles on the roster, we'd be paying out @$6m less in salary, & we'd have to cut one less player to get down to 15.

(I'm sure someone will respond what a valuable player C.J. Miles is. If that's what you're thinking, maybe you want to read that tweet again: the Grizzlies "never intended to bring Howard to camp." So, why'd they make the trade? To get rid of C.J. Miles, lower their salary, & get that extra roster spot -- i.e. what I just said.)

Yup. I made the same point in the Discussing Other Teams Moves thread. Basically, we are paying $6M for CJ Miles. If we never made that trade, we'd have that $6M to spend elsewhere.

With 20/20 hindsight on this offseason, I really would have preferred to just keep Sato at $9.5M rather than Ish at $6M and Miles (effectively at $6M). It would have given us the better player and saved $3.5M and a roster spot. That $3.5M saved, plus the approximately $3M we currently have in luxtax space could have been used to acquire some other short contract and a 2nd round pick (to make up for the 2nd round pick we didn't acquire in the Sato transaction). Or it could have been used on a young free agent (like the oft mentioned Noah Vonleh).

Ah, what could have been...

PG Sato/Thomas
SG Beal/Thomas
SF Brown/Hachimura
PF Bertans/Hachimura
C Bryant/Vonleh

That's a perfectly competitive (in the East) 8-man rotation if Thomas is any semblance of his pre-Boston self. The defense is so much better with Sato and Vonleh instead of Ish and Wagner.

That's great, nate -- never thought of it quite that way. Plus, Sato then becomes an extremely valuable trade chip. We'd have gotten a lot for him. Oh well...
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#736 » by penbeast0 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:08 am

payitforward wrote:That's great, nate -- never thought of it quite that way. Plus, Sato then becomes an extremely valuable trade chip. We'd have gotten a lot for him. Oh well...


A lot of us were unhappy with letting Satoransky go at that price but I don't think he wanted to resign with us if another offer was reasonably competitive. The way we treated him in the playoffs the previous year had to sting and I think he wanted out.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#737 » by nate33 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:14 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
payitforward wrote:That's great, nate -- never thought of it quite that way. Plus, Sato then becomes an extremely valuable trade chip. We'd have gotten a lot for him. Oh well...


A lot of us were unhappy with letting Satoransky go at that price but I don't think he wanted to resign with us if another offer was reasonably competitive. The way we treated him in the playoffs the previous year had to sting and I think he wanted out.

That's true. But that's where new GM Tommy Sheppard sits down with Sato and discusses his vision. Sato would have the role of starting PG this year. And in the next two years, he'll be the primary backup guard at both PG and SG, hopefully for a winning ball club. And there will be no more of Brooks trying to find some waterbug PG to replace him.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#738 » by payitforward » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:44 pm

The relevance of the discussion not so much about keeping Sato as about trading Howard for the remains of Miles (rather than just waiving him). Doing that decreased our flexibility.

Yet, if we'd waived Howard, we still might not have kept Sato. We'd still have had more flexibility this off season. Even if Dwight hadn't been picked up by LA, I'd have preferred doing that & signing a young wing for $3+m over trading Dwight for Miles with the same financial result.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#739 » by queridiculo » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:22 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
payitforward wrote:That's great, nate -- never thought of it quite that way. Plus, Sato then becomes an extremely valuable trade chip. We'd have gotten a lot for him. Oh well...


A lot of us were unhappy with letting Satoransky go at that price but I don't think he wanted to resign with us if another offer was reasonably competitive. The way we treated him in the playoffs the previous year had to sting and I think he wanted out.


Satoransky expected to be back with Washington, he said so himself, and as a RFA it's not like he had any choice in the matter anyway.

If you're fine with paying Smith $6 million per, it makes very little sense why you can't convince yourself that Satoransky is good value at $9.5/$10 per.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#740 » by penbeast0 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:53 pm

I agree, but in today's NBA, if the RFA tells you he wants out, you might let him go to avoid an unhappy locker room.
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