ImageImageImageImageImage

Around the Offseason, Take 2

Moderators: j4remi, NoLayupRule, HerSports85, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36

YouthMovement
General Manager
Posts: 9,046
And1: 5,033
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#781 » by YouthMovement » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:07 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
Read on Twitter

:lol:
User avatar
malik959
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,297
And1: 1,832
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
Location: Alabama (from L.I)
     

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#782 » by malik959 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:43 pm

It's only a 5 man team :lol:
User avatar
malik959
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,297
And1: 1,832
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
Location: Alabama (from L.I)
     

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#783 » by malik959 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:43 pm

Ex Knicks making an impact!
Jump Shot
Analyst
Posts: 3,727
And1: 971
Joined: May 23, 2008
     

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#784 » by Jump Shot » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:59 pm

Shake and bake!
User avatar
HerSports85
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 21,757
And1: 35,336
Joined: Dec 22, 2011

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#785 » by HerSports85 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:20 am

BAF: Chicago Bulls
23-24 In-season tournament Champs
User avatar
dakomish23
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 58,771
And1: 48,742
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#786 » by dakomish23 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:35 am

Not sure if already posted

Are We Sure … Karl-Anthony Towns Isn’t the Best Big Man in the NBA?

The Wolves center dominated down the stretch last season. Could he hit an even higher level now that the team is building around him instead of Jimmy Butler?

Danny ChauAug 12, 2019, 5:30am EDT

Spoiler:
The Wolves center dominated down the stretch last season. Could he hit an even higher level now that the team is building around him instead of Jimmy Butler?

The NBA offseason established a bunch of new story lines that require closer inspection. Throughout the next month-plus, we’re giving second thoughts to the most intriguing ones.

Today’s question: Are we sure Karl-Anthony Towns isn’t already the best big man in the NBA?


Karl-Anthony Towns is 23 years old. He will be 24 for much of the 2019-20 campaign, his fifth season in the NBA. He is just outside the top 10 in NBA MVP futures odds, according to FanDuel, sharing the same odds as Kyrie Irving and Luka Doncic. Depending on how much of a leap Doncic will make in his sophomore season, Towns is the youngest MVP contender in the NBA. Still, his youth—he is only four months older than the Suns’ 2019 lottery pick, Cameron Johnson—belies the exhausting shifts in the way people have reengineered KAT’s narrative and trajectory since his 2015-16 rookie season. Which, if you’ve forgotten, was incredible. He was one of only eight rookies in history to average at least 18 points, 10 rebounds, and 1.5 blocks per game, joining present-and-future Hall of Fame players like Tim Duncan, Shaquille O’Neal, Hakeem Olajuwon, and David Robinson.

He demonstrated unique gifts then—the size, length, and verticality to be an ideal rim protector; the strength to power through fellow centers down on the block; the touch and willingness to extend his range out to the 3-point line; the lateral mobility to one day become an omnipositional defender. It was a foreign combination of skills housed in the frame of a vintage center. But more than that was the idea that his skill set wasn’t just a word cloud waiting to be potentiated—the results were already plain to see. His future, by sheer force of talent, felt predetermined.

Of course, it wasn’t: He was 20 years old. The only thing truly preordained at that age is the swiftness with which attitudes and environments change. Indeed, over the past three seasons, KAT has grown into something else. These days, he’s less Kevin Garnett, more Dirk Nowitzki—a historically good shooter at his position, hidden by his obvious physical gifts. He’s not the all-world defender he flashed the potential of becoming earlier in his career, but he’s developed his offensive game in ways no one could have predicted him to in his lone season at Kentucky—in ways that turn him into a true one-of-one in today’s league.

Unlike either KG or Dirk, though, Towns is playing in an era when teams actually know how to build around an anomalous player. And the Wolves are showing signs that they know what needs to be done to best complement their star. Good timing: Towns’s five-year, $158 million max extension has kicked in and will take him through his age-27 season, the same season Garnett made his first conference final and the year Dirk made his first NBA Finals. For now, youth is still on KAT’s side. And maybe it’s time then, as he enters Year 5 of his career, to start celebrating Towns for what he is rather than what he isn’t.

That player arrived around the time 2019 did. Towns had started to spread his wings after the mid-November trade that sent Jimmy Butler to the Sixers, but he reached a new level after the Wolves fired Tom Thibodeau in early January. In the 37 games Towns played under Wolves coach Ryan Saunders, he averaged 26.8 points (on a ridiculous 54/42/84 shooting split), 12.4 rebounds, 3.7 assists, and 1.3 blocks per game. The most eye-popping figure of the lot might be Towns’s accuracy from 3, hitting 42 percent on nearly five attempts per game. Nowitzki, for what it’s worth, never reached five attempts per game in any season of his career; Towns will almost assuredly surpass it in 2019-20. The second most eye-popping figure might be his assist average, which matches Garnett’s career number. Towns’s ever-expanding perimeter skills slowed the game down for himself, and the space he was suddenly operating in allowed him to flash some dormant creativity as a facilitator.

The Wolves are still asking the world of Towns to bring them back into the playoffs, but for once, they aren’t trying to build a superstructure on top of a lofty idea of what Towns might be; they’re building around the skills he’s already elite at. All the pieces in place at Minnesota now are meant to accentuate Towns’s unique gravity as a sharpshooting, semitraditional big man. The franchise’s confidence in his ability to serve as a primary playmaker for others can be seen in their draft-night moves, trading a point forward in Dario Saric in order to land Jarrett Culver, a Swiss army knife wing who could easily thrive playing under Towns’s auspices in an inverted offensive scheme.

KAT hasn’t quite lived up to his billing as a defensive playmaker after his rookie season, and the Wolves have worked on augmenting his support on that end of the floor with two recent big-men acquisitions in Jordan Bell and Noah Vonleh. Bell cut his teeth on championship Warriors teams as a Draymond Green disciple, moonlighting at center and showcasing his switchability; Vonleh has spent the past few seasons rounding out into a quality role player with the length and mobility to cover a lot of ground on defense.

Minnesota can play big up front, and it can play small, with 3-and-D soldiers like Robert Covington or Jake Layman moving up a position to man the 4. The Wolves have a cadre of players comfortable playing off the ball, cutting and relocating to give Towns the space to either pass, pull up, or drive down the center of the lane. Nikola Jokic is a better passer but even at his most assertive won’t take over a game on offense the same way KAT can; Joel Embiid, Giannis Antetokounmpo, and Anthony Davis all have rightful claims at being better two-way players, but none can shoot nearly as well from distance, which might be just as meaningful to the way teams game-plan around a star.

And that’s where this upcoming season gets interesting for the Wolves. This might just be the year the hype swings all the way back around for their franchise cornerstone. Towns will have not only a sense of continuity, but a sense of agency over the direction of the franchise. They’ve finally gone all in on the actual Karl-Anthony Towns. That’s the biggest change the team could have offered him.


Spoiler:
not while AD is healthy. That guy might be the best big man ever by the time his career is done
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


#FreeJimmit
spree2kawhi
RealGM
Posts: 12,565
And1: 5,711
Joined: Mar 01, 2005

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#787 » by spree2kawhi » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:30 am

dakomish23 wrote:
Spoiler:
not while AD is healthy. That guy might be the best big man ever by the time his career is done

Why do people always forget about Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem so quickly? AD and Towns literally have no edge whatsoever.
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 71,855
And1: 69,930
Joined: Jul 12, 2009

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#788 » by Clyde_Style » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:34 am

spree2kawhi wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Spoiler:
not while AD is healthy. That guy might be the best big man ever by the time his career is done

Why do people always forget about Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem so quickly? AD and Towns literally have no edge whatsoever.


Kareem, Russell, Walton when he was healthy, Wilt, etc.
Thugger HBC
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 49,679
And1: 18,760
Joined: Jan 14, 2011
Location: Defense+efficient offense=titles...what do you have?
       

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#789 » by Thugger HBC » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:46 am

spree2kawhi wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Spoiler:
not while AD is healthy. That guy might be the best big man ever by the time his career is done

Why do people always forget about Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem so quickly? AD and Towns literally have no edge whatsoever.

AD is on David Robinson level. Not a bad place to be, but nowhere close to best ever.
R. I. P. Mamba 8/23/78 - 1/26/20

Gone, but will never be forgotten
User avatar
iLLmatic860
General Manager
Posts: 9,896
And1: 16,387
Joined: Jan 23, 2013
Location: Tampa
     

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#790 » by iLLmatic860 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:59 am

Thugger HBC wrote:
spree2kawhi wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Spoiler:
not while AD is healthy. That guy might be the best big man ever by the time his career is done

Why do people always forget about Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem so quickly? AD and Towns literally have no edge whatsoever.

AD is on David Robinson level. Not a bad place to be, but nowhere close to best ever.

Yeah way to soon for all that
User avatar
Rasho Brezec
RealGM
Posts: 61,959
And1: 18,587
Joined: Mar 12, 2008
Contact:
   

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#791 » by Rasho Brezec » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:53 pm

Do we have any roster spots left?

Image
User avatar
god shammgod
RealGM
Posts: 138,117
And1: 136,532
Joined: Feb 18, 2006

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#792 » by god shammgod » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:24 pm

team usa loses to australia
User avatar
xNewYorkMadex
General Manager
Posts: 8,749
And1: 5,758
Joined: Jul 17, 2006
Location: New York
   

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#793 » by xNewYorkMadex » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:01 pm

I like the Dwight Howard signing a lot for LA.

Dwight is still a good player imo. High percentage from the field, still a great rebounder. Not a total wreck on the defensive end. Think he will help LA.

I’d take him over Noah any day. Even though Noah is a great leader, his offense is absolute trash and the defense can just ignore him.
Andrea Bargnani nYk 2013-2015
User avatar
Separatista
RealGM
Posts: 11,810
And1: 6,671
Joined: Jan 30, 2014

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#794 » by Separatista » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:24 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:Do we have any roster spots left?


Holymother that’s yokozuna kakuryu, winner of the last sumo tourney. He got a nice shooting form, not bad
spree2kawhi
RealGM
Posts: 12,565
And1: 5,711
Joined: Mar 01, 2005

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#795 » by spree2kawhi » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:13 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
spree2kawhi wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Spoiler:
not while AD is healthy. That guy might be the best big man ever by the time his career is done

Why do people always forget about Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem so quickly? AD and Towns literally have no edge whatsoever.

AD is on David Robinson level. Not a bad place to be, but nowhere close to best ever.

David Robinson is an NBA champion, MVP and scored 71 points in a game during an era, where teams totaled between 70 and 80 points. Davis is very talented and athletic, but he has shown nothing close to Robinson either.
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
RealGM
Posts: 97,346
And1: 62,483
Joined: May 16, 2005
Location: In Your Head, USA
   

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#796 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:17 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
spree2kawhi wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Spoiler:
not while AD is healthy. That guy might be the best big man ever by the time his career is done

Why do people always forget about Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem so quickly? AD and Towns literally have no edge whatsoever.

AD is on David Robinson level. Not a bad place to be, but nowhere close to best ever.


David Robinson led his team to the Land of Rings. AD ain't done shyt.
Free Palestine
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 95,251
And1: 136,504
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#797 » by 3toheadmelo » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:32 pm

Rui was someone I wanted the Knicks to look at if we traded down. Really underrated player. Good pick for the Wizards
Image
It’s like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain’t directed directly at me, I don’t respect it
HEZI
RealGM
Posts: 43,166
And1: 29,366
Joined: Nov 16, 2004
 

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#798 » by HEZI » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:36 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
spree2kawhi wrote:Why do people always forget about Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem so quickly? AD and Towns literally have no edge whatsoever.

AD is on David Robinson level. Not a bad place to be, but nowhere close to best ever.


David Robinson led his team to the Land of Rings. AD ain't done shyt.


More like he rode Tim Duncan to a championship at the age of 33 during a lockout season right after MJ retired and the Bulls got dismantled

Yes David Robinson was a great player but lets not overrate the dude like he was on some other level than Anthony Davis who has yet to even hit his prime yet

I don't remember Robinson taking the Spurs anywhere before the year they tanked for Duncan
DENVER NUGGETS
Jamal Murray/Ty Jerome/Dante Exum
Zach Lavine/Ayo Dosunmu/Corey Kispert
Aaron Gordon/Harrison Barnes/Isaac Okoro
Jakob Poeltl/Moussa Diabate/Karlo Matkovic
Ivica Zubac/Nick Richards/Oscar Tshiebwe
User avatar
HerSports85
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 21,757
And1: 35,336
Joined: Dec 22, 2011

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#799 » by HerSports85 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:10 pm

Read on Twitter
BAF: Chicago Bulls
23-24 In-season tournament Champs
User avatar
Chanel Bomber
RealGM
Posts: 23,902
And1: 42,014
Joined: Sep 20, 2018
 

Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#800 » by Chanel Bomber » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:42 pm

dakomish23 wrote:Not sure if already posted

Are We Sure … Karl-Anthony Towns Isn’t the Best Big Man in the NBA?

The Wolves center dominated down the stretch last season. Could he hit an even higher level now that the team is building around him instead of Jimmy Butler?

Danny ChauAug 12, 2019, 5:30am EDT

Spoiler:
The Wolves center dominated down the stretch last season. Could he hit an even higher level now that the team is building around him instead of Jimmy Butler?

The NBA offseason established a bunch of new story lines that require closer inspection. Throughout the next month-plus, we’re giving second thoughts to the most intriguing ones.

Today’s question: Are we sure Karl-Anthony Towns isn’t already the best big man in the NBA?


Karl-Anthony Towns is 23 years old. He will be 24 for much of the 2019-20 campaign, his fifth season in the NBA. He is just outside the top 10 in NBA MVP futures odds, according to FanDuel, sharing the same odds as Kyrie Irving and Luka Doncic. Depending on how much of a leap Doncic will make in his sophomore season, Towns is the youngest MVP contender in the NBA. Still, his youth—he is only four months older than the Suns’ 2019 lottery pick, Cameron Johnson—belies the exhausting shifts in the way people have reengineered KAT’s narrative and trajectory since his 2015-16 rookie season. Which, if you’ve forgotten, was incredible. He was one of only eight rookies in history to average at least 18 points, 10 rebounds, and 1.5 blocks per game, joining present-and-future Hall of Fame players like Tim Duncan, Shaquille O’Neal, Hakeem Olajuwon, and David Robinson.

He demonstrated unique gifts then—the size, length, and verticality to be an ideal rim protector; the strength to power through fellow centers down on the block; the touch and willingness to extend his range out to the 3-point line; the lateral mobility to one day become an omnipositional defender. It was a foreign combination of skills housed in the frame of a vintage center. But more than that was the idea that his skill set wasn’t just a word cloud waiting to be potentiated—the results were already plain to see. His future, by sheer force of talent, felt predetermined.

Of course, it wasn’t: He was 20 years old. The only thing truly preordained at that age is the swiftness with which attitudes and environments change. Indeed, over the past three seasons, KAT has grown into something else. These days, he’s less Kevin Garnett, more Dirk Nowitzki—a historically good shooter at his position, hidden by his obvious physical gifts. He’s not the all-world defender he flashed the potential of becoming earlier in his career, but he’s developed his offensive game in ways no one could have predicted him to in his lone season at Kentucky—in ways that turn him into a true one-of-one in today’s league.

Unlike either KG or Dirk, though, Towns is playing in an era when teams actually know how to build around an anomalous player. And the Wolves are showing signs that they know what needs to be done to best complement their star. Good timing: Towns’s five-year, $158 million max extension has kicked in and will take him through his age-27 season, the same season Garnett made his first conference final and the year Dirk made his first NBA Finals. For now, youth is still on KAT’s side. And maybe it’s time then, as he enters Year 5 of his career, to start celebrating Towns for what he is rather than what he isn’t.

That player arrived around the time 2019 did. Towns had started to spread his wings after the mid-November trade that sent Jimmy Butler to the Sixers, but he reached a new level after the Wolves fired Tom Thibodeau in early January. In the 37 games Towns played under Wolves coach Ryan Saunders, he averaged 26.8 points (on a ridiculous 54/42/84 shooting split), 12.4 rebounds, 3.7 assists, and 1.3 blocks per game. The most eye-popping figure of the lot might be Towns’s accuracy from 3, hitting 42 percent on nearly five attempts per game. Nowitzki, for what it’s worth, never reached five attempts per game in any season of his career; Towns will almost assuredly surpass it in 2019-20. The second most eye-popping figure might be his assist average, which matches Garnett’s career number. Towns’s ever-expanding perimeter skills slowed the game down for himself, and the space he was suddenly operating in allowed him to flash some dormant creativity as a facilitator.

The Wolves are still asking the world of Towns to bring them back into the playoffs, but for once, they aren’t trying to build a superstructure on top of a lofty idea of what Towns might be; they’re building around the skills he’s already elite at. All the pieces in place at Minnesota now are meant to accentuate Towns’s unique gravity as a sharpshooting, semitraditional big man. The franchise’s confidence in his ability to serve as a primary playmaker for others can be seen in their draft-night moves, trading a point forward in Dario Saric in order to land Jarrett Culver, a Swiss army knife wing who could easily thrive playing under Towns’s auspices in an inverted offensive scheme.

KAT hasn’t quite lived up to his billing as a defensive playmaker after his rookie season, and the Wolves have worked on augmenting his support on that end of the floor with two recent big-men acquisitions in Jordan Bell and Noah Vonleh. Bell cut his teeth on championship Warriors teams as a Draymond Green disciple, moonlighting at center and showcasing his switchability; Vonleh has spent the past few seasons rounding out into a quality role player with the length and mobility to cover a lot of ground on defense.

Minnesota can play big up front, and it can play small, with 3-and-D soldiers like Robert Covington or Jake Layman moving up a position to man the 4. The Wolves have a cadre of players comfortable playing off the ball, cutting and relocating to give Towns the space to either pass, pull up, or drive down the center of the lane. Nikola Jokic is a better passer but even at his most assertive won’t take over a game on offense the same way KAT can; Joel Embiid, Giannis Antetokounmpo, and Anthony Davis all have rightful claims at being better two-way players, but none can shoot nearly as well from distance, which might be just as meaningful to the way teams game-plan around a star.

And that’s where this upcoming season gets interesting for the Wolves. This might just be the year the hype swings all the way back around for their franchise cornerstone. Towns will have not only a sense of continuity, but a sense of agency over the direction of the franchise. They’ve finally gone all in on the actual Karl-Anthony Towns. That’s the biggest change the team could have offered him.


Spoiler:
not while AD is healthy. That guy might be the best big man ever by the time his career is done

AD's not even the best big in the game today. That guy is so overrated, it's unbelievable. I don't care about injuries or how mediocre his supporting cast has been over the years, you can't reach the postseason only twice in your first seven years and be the best big man ever. AD is not KAJ. He's not Shaq, he's not Hakeem, he's not Duncan, and he's not Dirk. Not even close. Closest comparison might be KG and KG made it to the postseason 7 years in a row in Minnesota and his supporting casts were less than impressive.

Return to New York Knicks