Around the Offseason, Take 2

[bearadonisdna]

The 2 guys I regret most letting just walk,
Hezonja and mudiay.
Probably hezonja more than mudiay because mudiay was polarizing to the fanbase despite being one of the knicks most productive guards.

Hezonja was a nice piece to have , who could play small forward with some guard skills.

Morris, Ellington, Payton vs hezonja , mudiay isn't all that different, granted hezonja had the worst stats of all of them IIRC.

The way the end of the season went down was hard to identify the keepers, but in the back of my mind I always thought they had them as fall back options. At least they went out west.

[Clyde_Style]

The 2 guys I regret most letting just walk,
Hezonja and mudiay.
Probably hezonja more than mudiay because mudiay was polarizing to the fanbase despite being one of the knicks most productive guards.

Hezonja was a nice piece to have , who could play small forward with some guard skills.

Morris, Ellington, Payton vs hezonja , mudiay isn't all that different, granted hezonja had the worst stats of all of them IIRC.

The way the end of the season went down was hard to identify the keepers, but in the back of my mind I always thought they had them as fall back options.

Now I know the answer to the Zen question:

What is the sound of one fan clapping?

[RHODEY]

The 2 guys I regret most letting just walk,
Hezonja and mudiay.
Probably hezonja more than mudiay because mudiay was polarizing to the fanbase despite being one of the knicks most productive guards.

Hezonja was a nice piece to have , who could play small forward with some guard skills.

Morris, Ellington, Payton vs hezonja , mudiay isn't all that different, granted hezonja had the worst stats of all of them IIRC.

The way the end of the season went down was hard to identify the keepers, but in the back of my mind I always thought they had them as fall back options. At least they went out west.

IMO, while both were somewhat skilled neither could really put it all together enough to contribute to wins. But they filled their purpose for the tank...

[spree2kawhi]

AD is on David Robinson level. Not a bad place to be, but nowhere close to best ever.

David Robinson led his team to the Land of Rings. AD ain't done shyt.

More like he rode Tim Duncan to a championship at the age of 33 during a lockout season right after MJ retired and the Bulls got dismantled

Yes David Robinson was a great player but lets not overrate the dude like he was on some other level than Anthony Davis who has yet to even hit his prime yet

I don't remember Robinson taking the Spurs anywhere before the year they tanked for Duncan

They were contenders with him and he was the MVP.

[iLLmatic860]

The 2 guys I regret most letting just walk,
Hezonja and mudiay.
Probably hezonja more than mudiay because mudiay was polarizing to the fanbase despite being one of the knicks most productive guards.

Hezonja was a nice piece to have , who could play small forward with some guard skills.

Morris, Ellington, Payton vs hezonja , mudiay isn't all that different, granted hezonja had the worst stats of all of them IIRC.

The way the end of the season went down was hard to identify the keepers, but in the back of my mind I always thought they had them as fall back options. At least they went out west.

Mario was decent for us but not really much of an impact player. He had some signature moments but I feel like he had the same issue in Orlando. He is very replaceable imo.

[MaseInYourFace]

I think the Dwight Howard signing is going to work out for the Lakers.

He still has game left, LeBron will get him the ball in the right places and make his life easier. He really just needs to worry about getting rebounds, which won’t be a problem at all for him, and at least playing average level defense.

Howard has never stopped being a productive player. His main issue for some time has been he’s always worn out his welcome on every team he’s been. He’s a proven chemistry killer at this point.

[MaseInYourFace]

Spoiler:

not while AD is healthy. That guy might be the best big man ever by the time his career is done

Why do people always forget about Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem so quickly? AD and Towns literally have no edge whatsoever.

I didn’t forget about anybody. I watched all those guys play. In the case of Shaq and Duncan, I watched their whole careers.

I didn’t say AD’s there now. I said he could end up being the best ever by the time it’s all said and done. He’s got another 10 years left barring catastrophic injuries. Stick to what was said.

He’s that talented. He just doesn’t have the wins to back it up. The narrative will change dramatically if he starts adding some rings to his resume. It always does. How do I know that? Because it happened for Hakeem and Shaq as they won, along with many others.

AD would have to put together like 5 seasons of mvp type basketball without significant injuries, and a chip or two just to be in that convo IMO.

[spree2kawhi]

Why do people always forget about Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem so quickly? AD and Towns literally have no edge whatsoever.

I didn’t forget about anybody. I watched all those guys play. In the case of Shaq and Duncan, I watched their whole careers.

I didn’t say AD’s there now. I said he could end up being the best ever by the time it’s all said and done. He’s got another 10 years left barring catastrophic injuries. Stick to what was said.

He’s that talented. He just doesn’t have the wins to back it up. The narrative will change dramatically if he starts adding some rings to his resume. It always does. How do I know that? Because it happened for Hakeem and Shaq as they won, along with many others.

AD would have to put together like 5 seasons of mvp type basketball without significant injuries, and a chip or two just to be in that convo IMO.

Exactly. He has all the potential, but who would you rather build around? Prime Hakeem, prime Duncan, prime Shaq or freaking Anthony Davis?

I mean, last year he was not as good as I expected and it may obviously have been due to his situation being in limbo. Before that he was the best big in the league imo, but still he was nowhere near the level of those mentioned above. Just not there yet.

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

AD needs to win a couple of Finals MVPs, at least one league MVP, and perhaps a DPOY award before we can even start to ask if he's one of the best bigs ever.

He's still very young, of course, so there is plenty of time for him. But he also needs to show he can stay healthy. I can't think of another star bigman who has missed so many games in his first 7 seasons. Even guys like Ewing, Daugherty, and Yao, who would all eventually struggle with injuries, were healthier at this point in their respective careers.

[taj2133]

Watch on YouTube

[Gravy]

The 2 guys I regret most letting just walk,
Hezonja and mudiay.
Probably hezonja more than mudiay because mudiay was polarizing to the fanbase despite being one of the knicks most productive guards.

Hezonja was a nice piece to have , who could play small forward with some guard skills.

Morris, Ellington, Payton vs hezonja , mudiay isn't all that different, granted hezonja had the worst stats of all of them IIRC.

The way the end of the season went down was hard to identify the keepers, but in the back of my mind I always thought they had them as fall back options. At least they went out west.

It's only summer league but we may have a better version of Hezonja with Iggy.

The Mudiay hate was wild. For long stretches of the season he was the only player on the team who could score.. despite his other shortcomings. But it shouldn't be as necessary now with Randle, Payton, Morris, DSJ etc

[dakomish23]

AD's not even the best big in the game today. That guy is so overrated, it's unbelievable. I don't care about injuries or how mediocre his supporting cast has been over the years, you can't reach the postseason only twice in your first seven years and be the best big man ever. AD is not KAJ. He's not Shaq, he's not Hakeem, he's not Duncan, and he's not Dirk. Not even close. Closest comparison might be KG and KG made it to the postseason 7 years in a row in Minnesota and his supporting casts were less than impressive.

We’re gonna have to agree to disagree about the opening line. I think without a doubt he’s the best big man in the NBA.

You can’t count last season when they weren’t even playing him to make sure he didn’t get injured. Look at the other seasons. His teams have been ravaged by injuries and terrible management decisions. How are those teams supposed to make it in the buzzsaw that is the West?

Also, I said by the time his career is done. I didn’t say right now. 10 years from now if he adds some rings he’s going to be in the convo at the minimum.

So were KG's teams until they surrounded him and Wally with Spree and Cassell. The West was stacked then too. I'm not even talking about making noise in the Western playoffs anyway, just leading the Pelicans to the postseason.

We can disagree of course but I think Jokic and Embiid are far more impactful players than Davis. They apply pressure and make opposing defenses collapse in a way that I have yet to see from AD. I also believe they have better intangibles and their impact goes beyond their boxscore numbers. You mention injuries but let's not forget that Jokic kept the Nuggets afloat and even led them to the top of the Western Conference while his team suffered a plethora of injuries last season. Denver had better reserves yes, but it doesn't excuse AD for missing the playoffs entirely so many times (5 out of 7 seasons). They weren't playing AD last year because he made his trade demand public, which means the repercussions were completely self-inflicted so I'm not gonna throw a pity party... I believe they were out of the playoff picture already regardless.

The Pelicans record the past few seasons is more of a reflection of where Jrue ranks among NBA guards, less so AD. That's because Jrue has far more impact on his team winning and losing than AD does, and that in and of itself is an indictment on AD. That's just my theory. AD doesn't make his teammates better and is still far too reliant on his teammates as a scorer. He doesn't dictate pace or control the game offensively. I think he's an elite second option on a championship team, but nowhere near a "best player on a title team" type guy, and that's what it takes to be one of if not the best big ever.

We shall see how things play out in LA. I'm aware he might still reach another level, I just don't see greatness in him.

You can honestly go with any of AD Jokic Embid and make a good argument for they’re the best big man in the NBA. Good to see the resurgence of the big man after the premature declarations that they were obsolete.

[dakomish23]

AD needs to win a couple of Finals MVPs, at least one league MVP, and perhaps a DPOY award before we can even start to ask if he's one of the best bigs ever.

He's still very young, of course, so there is plenty of time for him. But he also needs to show he can stay healthy. I can't think of another star bigman who has missed so many games in his first 7 seasons. Even guys like Ewing, Daugherty, and Yao, who would all eventually struggle with injuries, were healthier at this point in their respective careers.

Good point and that’s the only thing I think that stops him. Maybe carrying less of a load with Lebron around will help give him some load management days to keep him fresh.

[dakomish23]

I didn’t forget about anybody. I watched all those guys play. In the case of Shaq and Duncan, I watched their whole careers.

I didn’t say AD’s there now. I said he could end up being the best ever by the time it’s all said and done. He’s got another 10 years left barring catastrophic injuries. Stick to what was said.

He’s that talented. He just doesn’t have the wins to back it up. The narrative will change dramatically if he starts adding some rings to his resume. It always does. How do I know that? Because it happened for Hakeem and Shaq as they won, along with many others.

AD would have to put together like 5 seasons of mvp type basketball without significant injuries, and a chip or two just to be in that convo IMO.

Exactly. He has all the potential, but who would you rather build around? Prime Hakeem, prime Duncan, prime Shaq or freaking Anthony Davis?

I mean, last year he was not as good as I expected and it may obviously have been due to his situation being in limbo. Before that he was the best big in the league imo, but still he was nowhere near the level of those mentioned above. Just not there yet.

Who said he was?

[dakomish23]

Why do people always forget about Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem so quickly? AD and Towns literally have no edge whatsoever.

I didn’t forget about anybody. I watched all those guys play. In the case of Shaq and Duncan, I watched their whole careers.

I didn’t say AD’s there now. I said he could end up being the best ever by the time it’s all said and done. He’s got another 10 years left barring catastrophic injuries. Stick to what was said.

He’s that talented. He just doesn’t have the wins to back it up. The narrative will change dramatically if he starts adding some rings to his resume. It always does. How do I know that? Because it happened for Hakeem and Shaq as they won, along with many others.

AD would have to put together like 5 seasons of mvp type basketball without significant injuries, and a chip or two just to be in that convo IMO.

He’s already got a couple under his belt

16-17
28.0 PPG 11.8 RPG 2.1 APG 1.3 SPG 2.2 BPG
51% FG 80% FT 52% EFG 58% TS

17-18
28.1 PPG 11.1 RPG 2.3 APG 1.5 SPG 2.6 BPG
53% FG 83% FT 55% EFG 61% TS

Expect a lot more of these barring injuries.

[HarthorneWingo]

David Robinson led his team to the Land of Rings. AD ain't done shyt.

More like he rode Tim Duncan to a championship at the age of 33 during a lockout season right after MJ retired and the Bulls got dismantled

Yes David Robinson was a great player but lets not overrate the dude like he was on some other level than Anthony Davis who has yet to even hit his prime yet

I don't remember Robinson taking the Spurs anywhere before the year they tanked for Duncan

They were contenders with him and he was the MVP.

[K_ick_God]

Interesting LeVert extension. More than he's currently worth but good chance he could be worth more IMO.

[JXL]

Look at these team rankings for NBA 2K20. I really thought the Knicks would be lower. They're ahead of the Pistons.

https://hoopshype.com/nba2k/teams/?utm_source=smg&utm_medium=wasabi&utm_content=home-latest-news

[spree2kawhi]

I didn’t forget about anybody. I watched all those guys play. In the case of Shaq and Duncan, I watched their whole careers.

I didn’t say AD’s there now. I said he could end up being the best ever by the time it’s all said and done. He’s got another 10 years left barring catastrophic injuries. Stick to what was said.

He’s that talented. He just doesn’t have the wins to back it up. The narrative will change dramatically if he starts adding some rings to his resume. It always does. How do I know that? Because it happened for Hakeem and Shaq as they won, along with many others.

AD would have to put together like 5 seasons of mvp type basketball without significant injuries, and a chip or two just to be in that convo IMO.

He’s already got a couple under his belt

16-17
28.0 PPG 11.8 RPG 2.1 APG 1.3 SPG 2.2 BPG
51% FG 80% FT 52% EFG 58% TS

17-18
28.1 PPG 11.1 RPG 2.3 APG 1.5 SPG 2.6 BPG
53% FG 83% FT 55% EFG 61% TS

Expect a lot more of these barring injuries.

Agreed, it's all good. Honestly I would have loved to sell the farm for him last spring.

[HarthorneWingo]

Look at these team rankings for NBA 2K20. I really thought the Knicks would be lower. They're ahead of the Pistons.

https://hoopshype.com/nba2k/teams/?utm_source=smg&utm_medium=wasabi&utm_content=home-latest-news

That will change after the Pistons sign Michael Beasley