Giannis Antetokounmpo's FIBA Stats vs. NBA Stats

[Mirotic12]

2018-19 NBA MVP Giannis Antetkounmpo's averages in the 2018-19 NBA regular season:

27.7 points per game
12.5 rebounds per game

and his stats in the 2019 NBA playoffs (where NBA teams supposedly play "real defense"):

25.5 points per game
12.3 rebounds per game


Giannis Antetokounmpo's stats so far in Greece's 2019 FIBA World Cup preparation (7 games so far):

Game 1: 19 points and 11 rebounds against Hungary (very weak opponent)

Game 2: 19 points and 8 rebounds against Iran (very weak opponent)

Game 3: 18 points and 8 rebounds against Turkey

Game 4: 16 points and 10 rebounds against Italy (minus its NBA players)

Game 5: 20 points and 1 rebound against Serbia (minus Nikola Jokic)

Game 6: 13 points and 4 rebounds against Jordan (very weak opponent)

Game 7: 26 points and 4 rebounds against Dominican Republic (minus their NBA players - very weak opponent)

averages so far (7 games):

18.7 points per game
6.6 rebounds per game


What is interesting about this to me is, that a very large majority of this forum will claim things like this any time a discussion comes up about the EuroLeague, or any player in the EuroLeague:

"Giannis averaged 28 and 13 in the NBA, so he would obviously average like 50 and 30 in the EuroLeague".

Note that the above opposition (other than Serbia) is much worse than your average EuroLeague team........


So the serious question here is very obvious - just how inflated are the NBA's stats?

Some other players that come to mind off the top of my head, that have had much worse stats in FIBA national team competitions than in the NBA:

Ricky Rubio
Steph Curry
Derrick Rose

etc.

[Magic Giannison]

Really, you take freaking friendly tourneys and use it as example in comparison to the NBA? Not only NBA play 8 more minutes than any FIBA games but the FIBA games are far different in terms of the concept overall as the pace is much slower and is defensive focused .


I like how you bring the numbers but not the minutes, your trolling and agenda are too obvious,stop it.

[Tim Reynolds]

I'd say a combination of shorter game length(40min in FIBA vs 48min in NBA) and no defensive 3-sec rule would do it.

[SmartWentCrazy]

If you include minutes/possessions, you’d make a more compelling argument. I’m going to guess that it didnt support your argument and you intentionally omitted them.

[Mirotic12]

If you include minutes/possessions, you’d make a more compelling argument. I’m going to guess that it didnt support your argument and you intentionally omitted them.

You can't get those stats from most of the friendlies, so nothing at all intentional. From watching the games I can say it's definitely less minutes played, and he's touching the ball way more than he ever does in the Bucks - in fact Greece's coach is basically letting him play hero ball almost the whole time he's on the court.

Keep in mind some of these opponents were very weak teams.........and could not even win games against teams from secondary level European leagues.

[SmartWentCrazy]

If you include minutes/possessions, you’d make a more compelling argument. I’m going to guess that it didnt support your argument and you intentionally omitted them.

You can't get those stats from most of the friendlies, so nothing at all intentional. From watching the games I can say it's less minutes played, and he's touching the ball way more than he ever does in the Bucks - in fact Greece's coach is basically letting him play hero ball almost the whole time he's on the court.

My best guess is that Giannis’ stats being less in international play are a function of both his minutes and total possessions per game being down. I’d wager his per play/per 100 possessions stats are higher in international play than they are in the NBA.

Said another way, he wouldnt average 50-30 in Euroleague as the game is shorter and slower; however, I’d guess his per possession stats would be higher relative to his per possession stats in the NBA.

To your larger point, we just saw the MVP of the Euroleague come in and be the ~30th best player in the NBA [which isnt a true comparison as Doncic exhibited growth as a player from age 18 to 19]. His rebounds/assists per possession likely decreased in the move while his scoring increased. I think its fair to assume Giannis would grab more rebounds, likely have more assists, but score relatively fewer points overall [though again, this would be a function of minutes/possessions].

[sunsbg]

"It's easier in NBA" - Doncic

One of the reasons for the above is it's star player driven league, FIBA is about team play - no new rules to magnify individual skills and win money from selling jerseys. I guess one of the reasons for US stars skipping the chance to represent their country is that they don't like playing under FIBA rules.

[Mirotic12]

My best guess is that Giannis’ stats being less in international play are a function of both his minutes and total possessions per game being down. I’d wager his per play/per 100 possessions stats are higher in international play than they are in the NBA.

Said another way, he wouldnt average 50-30 in Euroleague as the game is shorter and slower; however, I’d guess his per possession stats would be higher relative to his per possession stats in the NBA.

To your larger point, we just saw the MVP of the Euroleague come in and be the ~30th best player in the NBA [which isnt a true comparison as Doncic exhibited growth as a player from age 18 to 19]. His rebounds/assists per possession likely decreased in the move while his scoring increased. I think its fair to assume Giannis would grab more rebounds, likely have more assists, but score relatively fewer points overall [though again, this would be a function of minutes/possessions].

Doncic also had noticeable higher stats in NBA than he did in EuroLeague. It really looks like NBA stats are inflated and the 8 minute difference doesn't account for all of it. Even if we factor that in, Doncic had better averages in the NBA, if you prorate the numbers out another 8 minutes on average.

[RCM88x]

My best guess is that Giannis’ stats being less in international play are a function of both his minutes and total possessions per game being down. I’d wager his per play/per 100 possessions stats are higher in international play than they are in the NBA.

Said another way, he wouldnt average 50-30 in Euroleague as the game is shorter and slower; however, I’d guess his per possession stats would be higher relative to his per possession stats in the NBA.

To your larger point, we just saw the MVP of the Euroleague come in and be the ~30th best player in the NBA [which isnt a true comparison as Doncic exhibited growth as a player from age 18 to 19]. His rebounds/assists per possession likely decreased in the move while his scoring increased. I think its fair to assume Giannis would grab more rebounds, likely have more assists, but score relatively fewer points overall [though again, this would be a function of minutes/possessions].

Doncic also had noticeable higher stats in NBA than he did in EuroLeague. It really looks like NBA stats are inflated and the 8 minute difference doesn't account for all of it. Even if we factor that in, Doncic had better averages in the NBA, if you prorate the numbers out another 8 minutes on average.

He also was only just a top 25-40 player in the NBA, while he was the Euro League MVP a year earlier.

[Archx]

My best guess is that Giannis’ stats being less in international play are a function of both his minutes and total possessions per game being down. I’d wager his per play/per 100 possessions stats are higher in international play than they are in the NBA.

Said another way, he wouldnt average 50-30 in Euroleague as the game is shorter and slower; however, I’d guess his per possession stats would be higher relative to his per possession stats in the NBA.

To your larger point, we just saw the MVP of the Euroleague come in and be the ~30th best player in the NBA [which isnt a true comparison as Doncic exhibited growth as a player from age 18 to 19]. His rebounds/assists per possession likely decreased in the move while his scoring increased. I think its fair to assume Giannis would grab more rebounds, likely have more assists, but score relatively fewer points overall [though again, this would be a function of minutes/possessions].

Doncic also had noticeable higher stats in NBA than he did in EuroLeague. It really looks like NBA stats are inflated and the 8 minute difference doesn't account for all of it. Even if we factor that in, Doncic had better averages in the NBA, if you prorate the numbers out another 8 minutes on average.

He also was only just a top 25-40 player in the NBA, while he was the Euro League MVP a year earlier.

Yeah.. "only" at the age of 18 in EU and then 19/20 in the NBA. It's not like you're talking about a 10yo vet lol...His year per year progressions are off the charts.

But back to the point, like Luka said, spacing in the NBA is much better hence the "much easier to score" comment. Same goes for Giannis. You can see in FIBA games how 4 players just close down the lane or 2 bigs just camp under the rim, much harder for Giannis to get to the basket. In the NBA, he has a lot more room to operate.

In short, FIBA is a lot more pro defense while NBA is a lot more pro offense.

[G35]

You can never make an apples to apples comparison of stats between eras, players, leagues, teams.

There are not two situations that are exactly alike or even comparable......

[dhsilv2]

I hate this obsession with "inflated".

Inflated "excessively or unreasonably high."

Well no, the nba plays at a faster pace. NBA teams have better players and basketball naturally favors offense. As the players get better the offenses get better. The nba game is 20% longer. You can't compare per game metrics between FIBA and the NBA...it makes no sense to even attempt it.

[HotelVitale]

Whatever point you’re trying to make, OP, “inflated” isn’t the right term. Inflating is artificially supporting something so it’s larger than it should be, and I doubt you’re arguing that the NBA is faking or padding Giannis stats. What exactly are you levying, what’s the criticism here?

Also I don’t think anyone credible has ever claimed that players would average 50/30 or other wild stats in Euro play, it’s well known that the per game stat averages are generally lower in those leagues (Chinese leagues are a different story). Might be arguing with a ghost here.

[Mirotic12]

Updated the stats.

averages so far (7 games):

18.7 points per game
6.6 rebounds per game

[Bum Adebayo]

Very inflated, this has been known for a long time, NBA has banned defense from the game, they wanted super high scoring games to increase ratings because it is what the casuals want. In FIBA rules, one can play more defense and it clearly shows. The negative effect of catering to majority, as usual.

[sunsbg]

Whatever point you’re trying to make, OP, “inflated” isn’t the right term. Inflating is artificially supporting something so it’s larger than it should be, and I doubt you’re arguing that the NBA is faking or padding Giannis stats. What exactly are you levying, what’s the criticism here?

Also I don’t think anyone credible has ever claimed that players would average 50/30 or other wild stats in Euro play, it’s well known that the per game stat averages are generally lower in those leagues (Chinese leagues are a different story). Might be arguing with a ghost here.

I implied just that a few posts above.

When I started watching NBA it was considered a tougher league than EU leagues, now I was listening to Colangelo during USA vs Spain friendly explaining how other teams play more physical.

[bisme37]

Uhh the games are 20% shorter. 40 min vs 48. Seems like that takes care of the difference in his counting stats right there.

[Mirotic12]

Whatever point you’re trying to make, OP, “inflated” isn’t the right term. Inflating is artificially supporting something so it’s larger than it should be, and I doubt you’re arguing that the NBA is faking or padding Giannis stats. What exactly are you levying, what’s the criticism here?

Also I don’t think anyone credible has ever claimed that players would average 50/30 or other wild stats in Euro play, it’s well known that the per game stat averages are generally lower in those leagues (Chinese leagues are a different story). Might be arguing with a ghost here.

NBA has changed its rules to specifically make players seem better than they are on offense, to make it easier to score, to make it harder to play defense. In contrast, FIBA has logical and fair rules, allowing both offense and defense to have an equal chance to be played.

The result is that stats in the NBA seem to generally be higher for most players that have also played in competitions like the EuroLeague pro club league, or in major FIBA competitions like the FIBA EuroBasket, the Summer Olympics, and the FIBA World Cup.

These rules and specifically very big rules changes like adding the defensive 3 seconds rule, were openly said by NBA officials to have been done with the objective of decreasing defense, and increasing scoring. So I would say that actually does meet the definition of inflating.

[THE J0KER]

Updated the stats.

averages so far (7 games):

18.7 points per game
6.6 rebounds per game

This is just a preparation games. Serbia is unbeaten so far this summer, but you can't take seriously Jokic 13ppg average (Bogdanovic for example averages 20ppg). It would be dumb and crazy if Greece and Serbia used their stars Giannis and Jokic too much in warm-up games or even during the group phase.

[clyde21]

less spacing = less stats...pretty regular...means less open lanes to the basket, less shot makers so less assists, slower pace so less opportunities for rebounds, less opps for open court running, etc. it's why Luka said last year that the NBA is actually easier than euro basketball, which is slower, more rugged with less spacing and less full court basketball.