Gordon Hayward

[GOATTatum]

Gordon is gonna return to allstar form this year. He's gonna get a ton of open looks with teams double and triple teaming Tatum.

[Darth Celtic]

More mediocrity for $30+ million

Serious answers please. Looking at how PG bounced back, I'm really curious to what Gordon will look like this season.

Didn't George look a lot better, a lot earlier? Not saying it's over for Gordon, he is, what, 29? But still, just because George managed to come back and have a peak season last year, doesn't mean Hayward can get anywhere close to his best. It is a huge enigma, but I am rooting for him.

PG13 came back in season when the team was in the playoffs. He did ok in the playoffs then had all offseason to work on his game with the team without rehab.

Hayward broke his leg in season and didn't get to work out with team for basketball till training camp. He had a second surgery to remove a screw that was rubbing on his tendons causing pain which kept him from rehabbing and working out at top level. He basically was rehabbing all last offseason.

This year, he's not rehabbing. He's working out, working on his game, 7 days a week near 4hrs a day at the Celtics practice facility with Celtics trainers.

Is there a chance he comes back same as last year and mentally just can't be that guy anymore? Sure. I bet more on the guy working his tail off, staying in boston full time, and working with the team trainers making a big return this year.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I heard the same nonsense from Celtics fans last year.

60+ win team, lock to make finals, Warriors East

Overrated frauds every year, but last year they only won 49 games and got infinitely worse

I’m sorry, I can’t see you through all 18 of these banners we have over here. You had ONE good season and your rental left.

lol Classic Celtics fan comeback. Bring up 17 banners ya'll won against Firefighters and Plumbers back in the day.

Celtics and Raptors have the same amount of Titles the last 20 years lmao. Your history against a team that was born in 1995 really doesnt fit the narrative bud

... and airline pilots apparently...

[Darth Celtic]

If Hayward doesn't come off the bench again, Stevens is making the same mistake again. Tatum/Brown are better. Hayward isn't a 4 ( or too many spots he's not good at defending the 4). Especially with the hole at centre. And don't care how positive anyone wants to try and be about that. 14/6 and pretty average efficiency I would expect.

Look at team USA. Brown, Tatum, Middleton all playing. Brown and Tatum defending 4's. Even against bigger teams. Expect to see the same type of thing on the Celtics.

Brown/Tatum/Hayward are not 4's but can all switch on defense and defend 4's good enough to play the position.

[Asif16]

If Hayward doesn't come off the bench again, Stevens is making the same mistake again. Tatum/Brown are better. Hayward isn't a 4 ( or too many spots he's not good at defending the 4). Especially with the hole at centre. And don't care how positive anyone wants to try and be about that. 14/6 and pretty average efficiency I would expect.

Look at team USA. Brown, Tatum, Middleton all playing. Brown and Tatum defending 4's. Even against bigger teams. Expect to see the same type of thing on the Celtics.

Brown/Tatum/Hayward are not 4's but can all switch on defense and defend 4's good enough to play the position.

Really depends on whether or not Hayward was able to get his speed and agility back but the chances of Hayward successfully guarding the 4 is looking bleak. He was never a solid defender to start with. And Last year he looked like he can barely move.

If its an experiment Steven is gonna try to start the season, I dont think the experiment will last long.

[Darth Celtic]

If Hayward doesn't come off the bench again, Stevens is making the same mistake again. Tatum/Brown are better. Hayward isn't a 4 ( or too many spots he's not good at defending the 4). Especially with the hole at centre. And don't care how positive anyone wants to try and be about that. 14/6 and pretty average efficiency I would expect.

Look at team USA. Brown, Tatum, Middleton all playing. Brown and Tatum defending 4's. Even against bigger teams. Expect to see the same type of thing on the Celtics.

Brown/Tatum/Hayward are not 4's but can all switch on defense and defend 4's good enough to play the position.

Really depends on whether or not Hayward was able to get his speed and agility back but the chances of Hayward successfully guarding the 4 is looking bleak. He was never a solid defender to start with. And Last year he looked like he can barely move.

If its an experiment Steven is gonna try to start the season, I dont think the experiment will last long.

Actually last year I felt better when he defended 4's than 2's. He was a bit slower coming off injury last year and not having any training but rehabbing in the offseason. When I watched him, yes he wasn't a 4, but the dude is strong. He can muscle up a post player better than any wing on celtics other than maybe Smart.

PS, to jazz fans laughing he got hurt.... stay classy san diego.

[Johnny Bball]

If Hayward doesn't come off the bench again, Stevens is making the same mistake again. Tatum/Brown are better. Hayward isn't a 4 ( or too many spots he's not good at defending the 4). Especially with the hole at centre. And don't care how positive anyone wants to try and be about that. 14/6 and pretty average efficiency I would expect.

Look at team USA. Brown, Tatum, Middleton all playing. Brown and Tatum defending 4's. Even against bigger teams. Expect to see the same type of thing on the Celtics.

Brown/Tatum/Hayward are not 4's but can all switch on defense and defend 4's good enough to play the position.

I didn't say Tatum or Brown can't defend the 4. I think they would do it better even if but you expect them to be the 2 and 3. But that is not Hayward.

[Hoopz Afrik]

I've been in the 14-5-4 camp for him with good efficiency. I think he settles into a tertiary scorer, secondary playmaker role with this team. I think he'll look markedly better this coming szn than he did this past szn. I think him and Marcus Smart manning the second unit for the Celtics is going to be a huge deal for them.

[IgorK]

His best year in Utah was 21/5/5 shooting 47%fg/40%3pt/84%FT. Don't see him getting anywhere near that again but I could see him being a 15/4/4 guy.

Which in theory would be the perfect 3rd option on a contending team, right?

Funny - Kuzma will easily approach those numbers this year (18/5/2 last year), yet nobody will call him "the perfect 3rd option on a contending team".

[AbeVigodaLive]

His best year in Utah was 21/5/5 shooting 47%fg/40%3pt/84%FT. Don't see him getting anywhere near that again but I could see him being a 15/4/4 guy.

Which in theory would be the perfect 3rd option on a contending team, right?

Funny - Kuzma will easily approach those numbers this year (18/5/2 last year), yet nobody will call him "the perfect 3rd option on a contending team".

Maybe.

But back to which stats we're using... the advanced stats (even last year) favor Hayward across the board.

[IgorK]

Which in theory would be the perfect 3rd option on a contending team, right?

Funny - Kuzma will easily approach those numbers this year (18/5/2 last year), yet nobody will call him "the perfect 3rd option on a contending team".

Maybe.

But back to which stats we're using... the advanced stats (even last year) favor Hayward across the board.

My comment was more about fans' take on Kuzma rather than indicating Gordon's skills/value. I think Gordon has a high enough IQ to play well beyond this injury. He was never a max guy in my view but he can be one of the league's best glue guys (a la Iggy).

[PurpleGreenGold]

Look at team USA. Brown, Tatum, Middleton all playing. Brown and Tatum defending 4's. Even against bigger teams. Expect to see the same type of thing on the Celtics.

Brown/Tatum/Hayward are not 4's but can all switch on defense and defend 4's good enough to play the position.

Really depends on whether or not Hayward was able to get his speed and agility back but the chances of Hayward successfully guarding the 4 is looking bleak. He was never a solid defender to start with. And Last year he looked like he can barely move.

If its an experiment Steven is gonna try to start the season, I dont think the experiment will last long.

Actually last year I felt better when he defended 4's than 2's. He was a bit slower coming off injury last year and not having any training but rehabbing in the offseason. When I watched him, yes he wasn't a 4, but the dude is strong. He can muscle up a post player better than any wing on celtics other than maybe Smart.

PS, to jazz fans laughing he got hurt.... stay classy san diego.

I really worry for Boston's defensive efficiency if you have Tatum/Hayward spending any sort of time at the 4 spot when Kanter is in the game. Maybe Stevens can make it work, but that seems like a major problem.

[PurpleGreenGold]

Like a few others have posted, I agree that Hayward will never reach the numbers he put up in Utah. Snyder designed the entire offense around Hayward and ways to get the ball in his hands.

Boston has Walker/Tatum/Brown now in from of him, and he's just not the type of guy who demands his fair share of equal touches. I see him at maybe 15-4-4. He's capable of so much more, but he's not set up for success in Boston's system. And because of this, he'll continue to get dragged by fans/media because of his contract.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Like a few others have posted, I agree that Hayward will never reach the numbers he put up in Utah. Snyder designed the entire offense around Hayward and ways to get the ball in his hands.

Boston has Walker/Tatum/Brown now in from of him, and he's just not the type of guy who demands his fair share of equal touches. I see him at maybe 15-4-4. He's capable of so much more, but he's not set up for success in Boston's system. And because of this, he'll continue to get dragged by fans/media because of his contract.

If we go by usage rate... Hayward was the 5th option in Boston last season at 19.0. Barely ahead of Horford and Rozier.

I expect that to go up. It's near criminal that Marcus Morris had a higher rate...

[Asif16]

Like a few others have posted, I agree that Hayward will never reach the numbers he put up in Utah. Snyder designed the entire offense around Hayward and ways to get the ball in his hands.

Boston has Walker/Tatum/Brown now in from of him, and he's just not the type of guy who demands his fair share of equal touches. I see him at maybe 15-4-4. He's capable of so much more, but he's not set up for success in Boston's system. And because of this, he'll continue to get dragged by fans/media because of his contract.

If we go by usage rate... Hayward was the 5th option in Boston last season at 19.0. Barely ahead of Horford and Rozier.

I expect that to go up. It's near criminal that Marcus Morris had a higher rate...

Marcus Morris was clearly outplaying Hayward (and many other prime celtics players) during most of the season.

He's was practically one of their best players up until the All-Star break. Which pretty much summed up their season as a whole

[AbeVigodaLive]

Like a few others have posted, I agree that Hayward will never reach the numbers he put up in Utah. Snyder designed the entire offense around Hayward and ways to get the ball in his hands.

Boston has Walker/Tatum/Brown now in from of him, and he's just not the type of guy who demands his fair share of equal touches. I see him at maybe 15-4-4. He's capable of so much more, but he's not set up for success in Boston's system. And because of this, he'll continue to get dragged by fans/media because of his contract.

If we go by usage rate... Hayward was the 5th option in Boston last season at 19.0. Barely ahead of Horford and Rozier.

I expect that to go up. It's near criminal that Marcus Morris had a higher rate...

Marcus Morris was clearly outplaying Hayward (and many other prime celtics players) during most of the season.

He's was practically one of their best players up until the All-Star break. Which pretty much summed up their season as a whole

Exactly. Fool's gold.

Fast forward to the end of the season... and Hayward performed better (statistically) nearly across the board. Especially when you look at advanced stats.

The rub is that the Celtics were paying Hayward so much. And the expectations were higher. And he was a shell of his former self. My point here is simply to show that he wasn't actually nearly as terrible as some narratives would suggest... and that he was actually a plus player and possibly "better" than Morris or Brown or even Tatum.

[CeltsfaninDC]

Gordon Howard will be a decent 3rd option on good efficiency. But he's a very passive player which prevents him from being worth that contract. Theres no alpha in him. He was passive in Utah until we literally handed him the keys to the offense.

oh... this is a fun thread to revisit this morning

[CeltsfaninDC]

What you can’t see in that vid is that he’s standing on Kawhi’s shoulders again

Imagine being mediocre already and then replacing Kyrie & Horford with elite losers in Walker & Kanter . I'd be salty too.

just imagine

[sean1913]

if i'm ainge i'm happy with 15/5/5. he's not no 1 option ( who is in Bos?). if he can be consistent now that's what will help more.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

He'll still suck, hopefully.

I understand your bitterness.

As long as he keeps sucking, it's more elation than bitterness.

Somebody check in on this dude. He might have pulled an Epstein after last night.