Was Shaq underrated?

[dautjazz]

Shaq underachieved, to be honest.

He squandered his talent... well, he still accomplished a lot, but he definitely squandered his true potential. He could have been much better.

Shaq NEVER led the league in Rebouding !!?!
NEVER? F%cking kidding me?!?

Is it that big a deal? The first 6 years he was in the league Rodman was putting godly like rebounding numbers, if not for him, as a rookie he could of lead the league with his 13.9rpg or his 13.2rpg in year two. Mutombo was putting up over 14rpg when he edged out Shaq in 1999-00. I mean come on his 12.5rpg over his 4 years in Orlando, and then 11.8rpg in his next 8 years in LA is pretty incredible. Considering that the best rebounders year by year are usually guys like Rodman, B. Wallace, DeAndre Jordan, Mutombo, etc.. who aren't putting up anywhere near 30 on the offensive end, that's pretty awesome.

[dautjazz]

Shaq underachieved, to be honest.

He squandered his talent... well, he still accomplished a lot, but he definitely squandered his true potential. He could have been much better.

Shaq NEVER led the league in Rebouding !!?!
NEVER? F%cking kidding me?!?

This is what has always bothered me. Career average of 11? (10.9). Seriously? Never averaged even 14 for a season. That's disgraceful on his part. His rookie year was his highest rebounding year. Again, maddening.

He should have averaged 25, he was so physically dominant. Can never call him underrated.

.

25? Oh come on, in 1992-93, Shaq was basically swallowing 40% of his team's rebounds while on the court, that's damn impressive.

[Pumpkin17]

Shaq is the lazy-man's favorite player.

Shaq was lucky to have Wade and Kobe.

Wade was lucky to have Shaq and Bron.

Kobe was lucky to have Shaq, then was great bu itself.

What kind of dumb logic is this? Was MJ lucky to have Pippen? MJ never got past the 2nd round without Pippen while Pip got farther without MJ. So how's that work?

I agree that it's dumb, was just pointing out to the guy that Shaq was still the alpha in that Lakers team. Wade was fmvp but benefited greatly from attention driven by Shaq as well.

[Pumpkin17]

Wade was lucky to have Shaq and Bron.

Kobe was lucky to have Shaq, then was great bu itself.

What kind of dumb logic is this? Was MJ lucky to have Pippen? MJ never got past the 2nd round without Pippen while Pip got farther without MJ. So how's that work?

Shaq wasn't self-motivated.
If he never had those teammates with the killer-instinct, he may not have won anything.

MJ, Kobe, Wade = killers

Shaq = horse that needs a rider

Shaq was the main man. Fact that he wasn't self motivated doesn't mean that he wasn't the main reason they won.

[gorz]

In absolute peak, second most dominant player ever behind Wilt. easily underrated, I just dont understand how people rank Kobe over him, I get that Kobe had longer span of dominance, and why he is ranked higher as a Laker, because he was there much longer, but Shaq was metahuman, and if you just rank who reached higher highs, its Shaq without question. I feel like I rank shaq higher than Most, even Sabonis said that he was amazed of how good Shaq was, like he never saw anything like that.

IF your argument for shaq over kobe is bc of dominance..he should be be rated higher than mj, kareem, bird, magic, etc.

[random_hero891]

Overrated goon that thrived in an era of goon basketball.

[batmana]

Does anyone who watched Shaq play think that his dominance is/was underrated? The guy won only one MVP award which is paltry (half as many as Steve Nash) and -- I know this is anecdotal, but -- you hear so many people criticize him now ("fat and slow"; etc.), plus he seems to be relatively low on All-Time lists. Kobe seems to be seen by many as the greater player.

There just seems to be a lack of understanding how quickly and thoroughly he helped turned around Orlando, how dominant he was on a Laker team that won 3 championships, how good he still was as he won a championship in Miami and as an All-Star at 36 in Phoenix, and how he was close to or at the very top during the post-MJ, pre-LeBron years.

he didn't fully commit himself to the game and even apologized for it. yet he is still considered by many as a top20 - 30

so no, he is not underrated

That's absolutely disrespectful and perfectly answers the title of the thread. You didn't just have the guts to randomly say "he's top 20-30", you also questioned a poster who correctly pointed out that Shaq's closer to top 3.
There is absolutely no valid reasoning to rank Shaq outside the top 10 and he's closer to top 5 than not.
Shaq, throughout his prime, was probably not underrated. Today, he is getting massively underrated. I don't know if it's only kids who never saw him play (in his prime) or under the influence of the modern perimeter-oriented game and because there is noone really close to his impact.

The other thing that has always bothered me is when people say "Shaq never led the league in rebounding" like that's the conversation-stopper. I could just as easily say "Hakeem never led the league in scoring".

[70sFan]

Does anyone who watched Shaq play think that his dominance is/was underrated? The guy won only one MVP award which is paltry (half as many as Steve Nash) and -- I know this is anecdotal, but -- you hear so many people criticize him now ("fat and slow"; etc.), plus he seems to be relatively low on All-Time lists. Kobe seems to be seen by many as the greater player.

There just seems to be a lack of understanding how quickly and thoroughly he helped turned around Orlando, how dominant he was on a Laker team that won 3 championships, how good he still was as he won a championship in Miami and as an All-Star at 36 in Phoenix, and how he was close to or at the very top during the post-MJ, pre-LeBron years.

he didn't fully commit himself to the game and even apologized for it. yet he is still considered by many as a top20 - 30

so no, he is not underrated

That's absolutely disrespectful and perfectly answers the title of the thread. You didn't just have the guts to randomly say "he's top 20-30", you also questioned a poster who correctly pointed out that Shaq's closer to top 3.
There is absolutely no valid reasoning to rank Shaq outside the top 10 and he's closer to top 5 than not.
Shaq, throughout his prime, was probably not underrated. Today, he is getting massively underrated. I don't know if it's only kids who never saw him play (in his prime) or under the influence of the modern perimeter-oriented game and because there is noone really close to his impact.

The other thing that has always bothered me is when people say "Shaq never led the league in rebounding" like that's the conversation-stopper. I could just as easily say "Hakeem never led the league in scoring".

I have Shaq 8th, so he's closer to 10 than top 5. Is it really that unreasonable?

[batmana]

he didn't fully commit himself to the game and even apologized for it. yet he is still considered by many as a top20 - 30

so no, he is not underrated

That's absolutely disrespectful and perfectly answers the title of the thread. You didn't just have the guts to randomly say "he's top 20-30", you also questioned a poster who correctly pointed out that Shaq's closer to top 3.
There is absolutely no valid reasoning to rank Shaq outside the top 10 and he's closer to top 5 than not.
Shaq, throughout his prime, was probably not underrated. Today, he is getting massively underrated. I don't know if it's only kids who never saw him play (in his prime) or under the influence of the modern perimeter-oriented game and because there is noone really close to his impact.

The other thing that has always bothered me is when people say "Shaq never led the league in rebounding" like that's the conversation-stopper. I could just as easily say "Hakeem never led the league in scoring".

I have Shaq 8th, so he's closer to 10 than top 5. Is it really that unreasonable?

The guy I quoted said "top 20 or 30". I have Shaq in my top 5 but I understand the reasoning to have him anywhere in your top 10 and it's perfectly reasonable.

[Myth]

Wade was lucky to have Shaq and Bron.

Kobe was lucky to have Shaq, then was great bu itself.

What kind of dumb logic is this? Was MJ lucky to have Pippen? MJ never got past the 2nd round without Pippen while Pip got farther without MJ. So how's that work?

Shaq wasn't self-motivated.
If he never had those teammates with the killer-instinct, he may not have won anything.

MJ, Kobe, Wade = killers

Shaq = horse that needs a rider

So you are saying that Shaq carried Kobe. Got it.

[MrDollarBills]

Best Player of all time if only he would have cared

Shaq is the lazy-man's favorite player.

Shaq was lucky to have Wade and Kobe.

Neither the Lakers or Heat win those titles without O'Neal dominating in the post.

I swear to god a lot of you didn't watch O'Neal play one minute.

[dhsilv2]

Does anyone who watched Shaq play think that his dominance is/was underrated? The guy won only one MVP award which is paltry (half as many as Steve Nash) and -- I know this is anecdotal, but -- you hear so many people criticize him now ("fat and slow"; etc.), plus he seems to be relatively low on All-Time lists. Kobe seems to be seen by many as the greater player.

There just seems to be a lack of understanding how quickly and thoroughly he helped turned around Orlando, how dominant he was on a Laker team that won 3 championships, how good he still was as he won a championship in Miami and as an All-Star at 36 in Phoenix, and how he was close to or at the very top during the post-MJ, pre-LeBron years.

he didn't fully commit himself to the game and even apologized for it. yet he is still considered by many as a top20 - 30

so no, he is not underrated

That's absolutely disrespectful and perfectly answers the title of the thread. You didn't just have the guts to randomly say "he's top 20-30", you also questioned a poster who correctly pointed out that Shaq's closer to top 3.
There is absolutely no valid reasoning to rank Shaq outside the top 10 and he's closer to top 5 than not.
Shaq, throughout his prime, was probably not underrated. Today, he is getting massively underrated. I don't know if it's only kids who never saw him play (in his prime) or under the influence of the modern perimeter-oriented game and because there is noone really close to his impact.

The other thing that has always bothered me is when people say "Shaq never led the league in rebounding" like that's the conversation-stopper. I could just as easily say "Hakeem never led the league in scoring".

You can absolutely make a case for Shaq JUST outside of the top 10. The top 10 is a pretty loaded field and there are plenty of ways move guys up or down, especially if you factor in era a bit differently than most do.

Bill Simmons who more or less created the standard for ranking players had Shaq at 12 and while I would move shaq up, it's not unreasonable at all. You just need to have a reason to move West and Oscar above where most fans tend to rank them, give them credit for their era being big man dominate and their dominance despite that and then adjusting longevity a touch for era, and boom there's a good case already. Drop Shaq a touch for his issues as a closer with free throw shooting and hit him a bit for his missed games in his apex years. You also have to be higher on Bird and Magic despite longevity issues which is also difficult, but if you value them MVP's, it gets easier.

[triple_threat]

No. Peak Shaq may very well be the best player ever. But, he is where he is on all-time lists because he didn't take care of his body and therefore doesn't have the longevity of other all-timers. He was my favorite player when i started watching basketball, but he fell off pretty quickly (in terms of being a superstar) after the 3-peat.

The longevity assessment is ridiculous because, on that basis, jordan will 0 shot at GOAT status when compared to Jabbar, Lebron, Duncan. Jordan only had 13 seasons on the bulls. Shaqs first 13 seasons were dominant, which is more than long enough by any standard. Just a lazy argument all around.

[HeartBreakKid]

No. Peak Shaq may very well be the best player ever. But, he is where he is on all-time lists because he didn't take care of his body and therefore doesn't have the longevity of other all-timers. He was my favorite player when i started watching basketball, but he fell off pretty quickly (in terms of being a superstar) after the 3-peat.

The longevity assessment is ridiculous because, on that basis, jordan will 0 shot at GOAT status when compared to Jabbar, Lebron, Duncan. Jordan only had 13 seasons on the bulls. Shaqs first 13 seasons were dominant, which is more than long enough by any standard. Just a lazy argument all around.

Why does Michael Jordan "have" to be the goat? You didn't really explain why longevity is ridiculous, all you did was just point out that if you factor in longevity than players like Abdul-Jabar and James should be ranked above Jordan.

[triple_threat]

No. Peak Shaq may very well be the best player ever. But, he is where he is on all-time lists because he didn't take care of his body and therefore doesn't have the longevity of other all-timers. He was my favorite player when i started watching basketball, but he fell off pretty quickly (in terms of being a superstar) after the 3-peat.

The longevity assessment is ridiculous because, on that basis, jordan will 0 shot at GOAT status when compared to Jabbar, Lebron, Duncan. Jordan only had 13 seasons on the bulls. Shaqs first 13 seasons were dominant, which is more than long enough by any standard. Just a lazy argument all around.

Why does Michael Jordan "have" to be the goat? You didn't really explain why longevity is ridiculous, all you did was just point out that if you factor in longevity than players like Abdul-Jabar and James should be ranked above Jordan.

He doesn't have to, but everyone has him as the goat or at the mininum in the goat conversation. Playing a few more seasons doesnt make somone a better player and thats a fact. Esepcially when we are talkin about a guy like shaq who played at an elite level for a super long time.

[Myth]

No. Peak Shaq may very well be the best player ever. But, he is where he is on all-time lists because he didn't take care of his body and therefore doesn't have the longevity of other all-timers. He was my favorite player when i started watching basketball, but he fell off pretty quickly (in terms of being a superstar) after the 3-peat.

The longevity assessment is ridiculous because, on that basis, jordan will 0 shot at GOAT status when compared to Jabbar, Lebron, Duncan. Jordan only had 13 seasons on the bulls. Shaqs first 13 seasons were dominant, which is more than long enough by any standard. Just a lazy argument all around.

Why does Michael Jordan "have" to be the goat? You didn't really explain why longevity is ridiculous, all you did was just point out that if you factor in longevity than players like Abdul-Jabar and James should be ranked above Jordan.

I think it is more about the hypocrisy. People will say MJ is the GOAT, but then question Shaq's longevity. Jordan's longevity is almost never questioned.

[Myth]

Btw, Shaq's longevity is underrated. The dude weighed over 300 pounds most of his career, and yet played 19 seasons in the league. The longest anybody ever played is 21 years. 19 is just as long as Duncan. He played over 1200 games, good for 43rd all-time including NBA and ABA (and I don't think the list I got that from includes playoffs, which likely bumps it up). He was an all-star for 15 of those years, but really should be 16 since there was no all-star game in 1999. That is only 3 seasons in his 19 years that he didn't make an all-star team when there was an all-star game.

[thebigbird]

No. Peak Shaq may very well be the best player ever. But, he is where he is on all-time lists because he didn't take care of his body and therefore doesn't have the longevity of other all-timers. He was my favorite player when i started watching basketball, but he fell off pretty quickly (in terms of being a superstar) after the 3-peat.

The longevity assessment is ridiculous because, on that basis, jordan will 0 shot at GOAT status when compared to Jabbar, Lebron, Duncan. Jordan only had 13 seasons on the bulls. Shaqs first 13 seasons were dominant, which is more than long enough by any standard. Just a lazy argument all around.

Longevity isn't ridiculous. Availability is one of the most valuable qualities a player can have. Jordan only playing 13 real seasons and sitting out for almost two years in his prime should be held against him when you're evaluating his career.

[ItsMyPotPie]

Shaq is considered a top 10 player of all time and possibly the most dominant player in the league plus maybe the greatest peak as well so no, he's not underrated.

A 4 time champion, first ballot hall of famer is considered an underachiever xD

[Lalouie]

he didn't fully commit himself to the game and even apologized for it. yet he is still considered by many as a top20 - 30

so no, he is not underrated

That's absolutely disrespectful and perfectly answers the title of the thread. You didn't just have the guts to randomly say "he's top 20-30", you also questioned a poster who correctly pointed out that Shaq's closer to top 3.
There is absolutely no valid reasoning to rank Shaq outside the top 10 and he's closer to top 5 than not.
Shaq, throughout his prime, was probably not underrated. Today, he is getting massively underrated. I don't know if it's only kids who never saw him play (in his prime) or under the influence of the modern perimeter-oriented game and because there is noone really close to his impact.

The other thing that has always bothered me is when people say "Shaq never led the league in rebounding" like that's the conversation-stopper. I could just as easily say "Hakeem never led the league in scoring".

You can absolutely make a case for Shaq JUST outside of the top 10. The top 10 is a pretty loaded field and there are plenty of ways move guys up or down, especially if you factor in era a bit differently than most do.

Bill Simmons who more or less created the standard for ranking players had Shaq at 12 and while I would move shaq up, it's not unreasonable at all. You just need to have a reason to move West and Oscar above where most fans tend to rank them, give them credit for their era being big man dominate and their dominance despite that and then adjusting longevity a touch for era, and boom there's a good case already. Drop Shaq a touch for his issues as a closer with free throw shooting and hit him a bit for his missed games in his apex years. You also have to be higher on Bird and Magic despite longevity issues which is also difficult, but if you value them MVP's, it gets easier.

i hit shaq A TON for lack of commitment. what is the one personality trait that defines all these winners from other talented players. was any top 10 player a sloth? what grade do you give any artist who takes his talent for granted and WILLINGLY never reaches his full potential for lack of trying?

furthermore, even shaq himself has lamented it and that seals the deal. when an artist with great talent never nurtures it he's known as a "what could have been". what could have beens do not belong in a top10 or anywhere close to it