Was Shaq underrated?

[WarriorGM]

His lack of championships during his Orlando Magic days when people argue he was possibly as good as his early Lakers years gives me pause.

[Myth]

It should be said that if Shaq worked as hard as Kobe, his massive body would have broke by the time he was 30. His laziness may have been what kept him as fresh as he was, and have a career as long as he did. Diet probably would have been more important for Shaq's career than hard work in the gym.

[LascelleL]

At the time? No he was properly rated. MDE, Top 10 All time, Top 3 Peak ever.

Today? I see people saying Draymond can guard him. So Yes.

[50CalClips]

Best Player of all time if only he would have cared

Shaq is the lazy-man's favorite player.
Shaq was lucky to have Wade and Kobe.

Neither the Lakers or Heat win those titles without O'Neal dominating in the post.
I swear to god a lot of you didn't watch O'Neal play one minute.

That's likely true... and it doesn't negate what I said in my post^.

Shaq used to eat McDonald Big Mac's in the locker room.
Facts are facts.

[The_Hater]

When I hear people talk about Shaq in 2019, I think he belongs in the underrated category.

Duncan wasn’t better. Kobe wasn’t better. There hasn’t been a player in decades who forced opposing coaches to completely change gameplans for an opponent like Shaq.

Huge, strongest player in the league, incredible hands, incredible footwork, underrated for his speed and quickness and he had a complete bag of moves and counters in the post that nobody ever gives him credit for.

[50CalClips]

Shaq wasn't self-motivated.
If he never had those teammates with the killer-instinct, he may not have won anything.
MJ, Kobe, Wade = killers
Shaq = horse that needs a rider

Shaq was the main man. Fact that he wasn't self motivated doesn't mean that he wasn't the main reason they won.

Okay.
Fact that Shaq was not driven like the MJ's and the Kobe's, makes him an underachiever.
That's the premise.

So you are saying that Shaq carried Kobe. Got it.

This aint a Kobe vs Shaq debate, BTW.

Kobe is overrated
Shaq underachieved.

[50CalClips]

Watch on YouTube

[50CalClips]

Shaq knew he was better than everyone... and that's how he rationalized not putting full effort.

At around 13:00 minutes -- Shaq's mentality...

Shaq - "One thing I know I got, I know I got a guy that's going to be ready [meaning Kobe]... so I admit, a lot of times I didn't come into camp ready. My thing was... I don't need to get ready for Duncan, I don't need to get ready... I'll get ready when I want to get ready. So because I had you [pointing to Kobe], I was able to chill out in the summer...Listen, I got beat up, I got Hack-a-Shaq'ed, I was tired man... One thing I know I got, I got a kid that's gonna give me 40 anytime he wants to..."

Watch on YouTube

[NPZ]

Shaq is the lazy-man's favorite player.
Shaq was lucky to have Wade and Kobe.

Neither the Lakers or Heat win those titles without O'Neal dominating in the post.
I swear to god a lot of you didn't watch O'Neal play one minute.

That's likely true... and it doesn't negate what I said in my post^.

Shaq used to eat McDonald Big Mac's in the locker room.
Facts are facts.

Shaq is more an underachiever like Paul George than an overachiever like Kawhi.

[Myth]

Shaq wasn't self-motivated.
If he never had those teammates with the killer-instinct, he may not have won anything.
MJ, Kobe, Wade = killers
Shaq = horse that needs a rider

Shaq was the main man. Fact that he wasn't self motivated doesn't mean that he wasn't the main reason they won.

Okay.
Fact that Shaq was not driven like the MJ's and the Kobe's, makes him an underachiever.
That's the premise.

So you are saying that Shaq carried Kobe. Got it.

This aint a Kobe vs Shaq debate, BTW.

Kobe is overrated
Shaq underachieved.

As I mentioned in the other Shaq thread, I think Shaq would have broke if he worked out like Kobe. His laziness likely kept him from wearing out his huge body too fast. I do think a better diet would have helped more than intense workouts for him.

[50CalClips]

Shaq wasn't self-motivated.
If he never had those teammates with the killer-instinct, he may not have won anything.
MJ, Kobe, Wade = killers
Shaq = horse that needs a rider

So you are saying that Shaq carried Kobe. Got it.

This aint a Kobe vs Shaq debate, BTW.
Kobe is overrated
Shaq underachieved.

As I mentioned in the other Shaq thread, I think Shaq would have broke if he worked out like Kobe. His laziness likely kept him from wearing out his huge body too fast. I do think a better diet would have helped more than intense workouts for him.

Could be.
The big man played for 19 YEARS! Glad he never got a serious injury.

But reasonably speaking (my use of "lazy" is hyperbole, btw), Shaq could have been more professional about nutrition, conditioning, practice. He's admitted, in effect, that he took his own greatness/superiority for granted.

[NZB2323]

From 1996-2007 Shaq only played in 70 or more regular season games 3 seasons, which is part of the reason why he has so few MVP awards. You can argue he should have won it all 3 years, as he was more deserving than AI in 01 or Steve Nash in 05.

Shaq was one hell of a player but he fueded with teammates, left a lot of teams on bad terms, and showed up to training camp out of shape, which I think has to be factored into his all time ranking. He's very similar to Wilt, but Shaq tends to get more hate for it. Wilt refused to practice before noon while he played for the 76ers but lived in New York. Shaq rigged the exercise bikes so they would say players had high heart rates when they were coasting.

Shaq won 4 championships and Wilt won 2. I think Wilt was worse in terms of chasing stats and fueding with teammates and coaches.

I would rank Shaq ahead of Wilt, Kobe, West, the Big O, and Hakeem, but have Lebron, Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Bird, Magic, and Duncan ahead of Shaq. So I have Shaq at #8 all time.

[triple_threat]

Shaq is the lazy-man's favorite player.
Shaq was lucky to have Wade and Kobe.

Neither the Lakers or Heat win those titles without O'Neal dominating in the post.
I swear to god a lot of you didn't watch O'Neal play one minute.

That's likely true... and it doesn't negate what I said in my post^.

Shaq used to eat McDonald Big Mac's in the locker room.
Facts are facts.

Kobe used to eat Mickey ds too so what

[MrDollarBills]

Neither the Lakers or Heat win those titles without O'Neal dominating in the post.
I swear to god a lot of you didn't watch O'Neal play one minute.

That's likely true... and it doesn't negate what I said in my post^.

Shaq used to eat McDonald Big Mac's in the locker room.
Facts are facts.

Shaq is more an underachiever like Paul George than an overachiever like Kawhi.

4 championship rings and a 1st ballot HOFer is an underachiever.

Let that sink in. This is the most absurd thing I've read on this board today.

[batmana]

he didn't fully commit himself to the game and even apologized for it. yet he is still considered by many as a top20 - 30

so no, he is not underrated

That's absolutely disrespectful and perfectly answers the title of the thread. You didn't just have the guts to randomly say "he's top 20-30", you also questioned a poster who correctly pointed out that Shaq's closer to top 3.
There is absolutely no valid reasoning to rank Shaq outside the top 10 and he's closer to top 5 than not.
Shaq, throughout his prime, was probably not underrated. Today, he is getting massively underrated. I don't know if it's only kids who never saw him play (in his prime) or under the influence of the modern perimeter-oriented game and because there is noone really close to his impact.

The other thing that has always bothered me is when people say "Shaq never led the league in rebounding" like that's the conversation-stopper. I could just as easily say "Hakeem never led the league in scoring".

You can absolutely make a case for Shaq JUST outside of the top 10. The top 10 is a pretty loaded field and there are plenty of ways move guys up or down, especially if you factor in era a bit differently than most do.

Bill Simmons who more or less created the standard for ranking players had Shaq at 12 and while I would move shaq up, it's not unreasonable at all. You just need to have a reason to move West and Oscar above where most fans tend to rank them, give them credit for their era being big man dominate and their dominance despite that and then adjusting longevity a touch for era, and boom there's a good case already. Drop Shaq a touch for his issues as a closer with free throw shooting and hit him a bit for his missed games in his apex years. You also have to be higher on Bird and Magic despite longevity issues which is also difficult, but if you value them MVP's, it gets easier.

While I'm not familiar off the top of my head with Simmons' exact rankings, I honestly don't see a valid argument for West or Oscar over Shaq. I admit I'm probably biased and my personal rankings (anyone's rankings for that matter) are probably not entirely objective and mirror my own prejudices and preferences, but I simply think West is on a tier below Shaq, and Oscar (without wanting to dive into such a discussion here) is even further below, with absolutely no case against Shaq.
The players I can see ranked around Shaq (in front of or behind him) are: Jordan, LeBron, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Magic, Bird. The closest ones to that group are Hakeem and Kobe even though in my book they are clearly below Shaq. Anyone else to me is in a lower tier.

[MrDollarBills]

His lack of championships during his Orlando Magic days when people argue he was possibly as good as his early Lakers years gives me pause.

He was not as good in his Magic days as he was in his prime with the Lakers.

[LKN]

Shaq is an underachiever, which is amazing to say about a guy who is clearly a top 10 ATG and a 4 time champion.

If he had the work ethic of an MJ, Lebron, Kobe, etc I'm pretty sure he'd be the GOAT. The guy was that talented and that much of a physical freak. His combination of size, strength and quickness was just absurd. If he could have just become a 70% FT shooter he'd probably be the GOAT... heck, if he had just kept himself in better shape he might be the GOAT.

[LKN]

When I hear people talk about Shaq in 2019, I think he belongs in the underrated category.

Duncan wasn’t better. Kobe wasn’t better. There hasn’t been a player in decades who forced opposing coaches to completely change gameplans for an opponent like Shaq.

Huge, strongest player in the league, incredible hands, incredible footwork, underrated for his speed and quickness and he had a complete bag of moves and counters in the post that nobody ever gives him credit for.

Not only that - go look at some of the rosters from Shaq's prime. Teams were carrying stiffs, close to washed up big men, etc just to have bodies to throw at Shaq.

[XxIronChainzxX]

When I hear people talk about Shaq in 2019, I think he belongs in the underrated category.

Duncan wasn’t better. Kobe wasn’t better. There hasn’t been a player in decades who forced opposing coaches to completely change gameplans for an opponent like Shaq.

Huge, strongest player in the league, incredible hands, incredible footwork, underrated for his speed and quickness and he had a complete bag of moves and counters in the post that nobody ever gives him credit for.

Shaq today - especially as lean as he was to start - is just a bigger, stronger, faster and more fluid Giannis. I don't think people comprehend what that would mean for the game.

[dhsilv2]

That's absolutely disrespectful and perfectly answers the title of the thread. You didn't just have the guts to randomly say "he's top 20-30", you also questioned a poster who correctly pointed out that Shaq's closer to top 3.
There is absolutely no valid reasoning to rank Shaq outside the top 10 and he's closer to top 5 than not.
Shaq, throughout his prime, was probably not underrated. Today, he is getting massively underrated. I don't know if it's only kids who never saw him play (in his prime) or under the influence of the modern perimeter-oriented game and because there is noone really close to his impact.

The other thing that has always bothered me is when people say "Shaq never led the league in rebounding" like that's the conversation-stopper. I could just as easily say "Hakeem never led the league in scoring".

You can absolutely make a case for Shaq JUST outside of the top 10. The top 10 is a pretty loaded field and there are plenty of ways move guys up or down, especially if you factor in era a bit differently than most do.

Bill Simmons who more or less created the standard for ranking players had Shaq at 12 and while I would move shaq up, it's not unreasonable at all. You just need to have a reason to move West and Oscar above where most fans tend to rank them, give them credit for their era being big man dominate and their dominance despite that and then adjusting longevity a touch for era, and boom there's a good case already. Drop Shaq a touch for his issues as a closer with free throw shooting and hit him a bit for his missed games in his apex years. You also have to be higher on Bird and Magic despite longevity issues which is also difficult, but if you value them MVP's, it gets easier.

While I'm not familiar off the top of my head with Simmons' exact rankings, I honestly don't see a valid argument for West or Oscar over Shaq. I admit I'm probably biased and my personal rankings (anyone's rankings for that matter) are probably not entirely objective and mirror my own prejudices and preferences, but I simply think West is on a tier below Shaq, and Oscar (without wanting to dive into such a discussion here) is even further below, with absolutely no case against Shaq.
The players I can see ranked around Shaq (in front of or behind him) are: Jordan, LeBron, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Magic, Bird. The closest ones to that group are Hakeem and Kobe even though in my book they are clearly below Shaq. Anyone else to me is in a lower tier.

Well, fair enough. I think there's a real case to SIGNIFICANTLY move West up due to just how incompetent coaching in the era was. West was very easily the most dominate offensive force in the league and his coach was still wanting to run the offense though the extremely inefficient Baylor. It's of course extremely difficult to compare different eras, especially West and Oscar's time given at no time as the league been more big man favorable and frankly it was a different game all together.

And shocked anyone here hasn't read bills book, not that I'd say it's a must read, but it's likely the most important basketball book of the last decade or two. Not seeing his list is crazy, it's everywhere.