Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player?

The_Hater · Post #21 » by **The_Hater** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:12 pm

I think all-star is his ceiling, there are very few franchise players out there.

Sane · Post #22 » by **Sane** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:19 pm

Equally important, every team Kyrie has ever been a part of without Lebron James has won less than was expected. I expect that trend to continue, and I expect the Celtics to benefit from having a less talented but more suited PG in Kemba.

HoopsterJones · Post #23 » by **HoopsterJones** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:41 pm

To me there are less than 10 franchise players in the NBA.

So no. He is not.

Swish1906 · Post #24 » by **Swish1906** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:44 pm

GOATTatum wrote:That dude Tatum is a superstar who can do it all, shoot, drive, score, pass, and defend, all at an elite level. 2019 was outlier because of moody ass Kyrie. Celtics now got the best point guard in the NBA as Tatum's sidekick. It's championship or bust for the next 15 years.

Hi Jayson!!!

Ballerhogger · Post #25 » by **Ballerhogger** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:45 pm

Nope hasnt shown it yet

lilswift01 · Post #26 » by **lilswift01** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:55 pm

Good lenght, good athleticism, good offensive skills. I just dont see anything special right now.

Sent from my LG-H933 using RealGM mobile app

Post #27 » by **Froob** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 5:56 pm

Hope so, I think this is his big year. He looks a lot more muscular this season.

Also is tomorrow the Jaylen Brown thread or the Marcus Smart thread? Just want to be prepared.

Prokorov · Post #28 » by **Prokorov** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 6:34 pm

Sane wrote:Equally important, every team Kyrie has ever been a part of without Lebron James has won less than was expected. I expect that trend to continue, and I expect the Celtics to benefit from having a less talented but more suited PG in Kemba.

you say that like its a dozen teams and its true. its 2 teams and its false:

1) pre-lebron cavs

19-21 year old Kyrie joined a 19 win cavs team surrounded by hall of famers like dion waiters, tristan thompson, alonozo gee, and the corpse of antwan jamison. he got even more help when they drafted anthony bennet and signed the corpse of luol deng and earl clark:

Year 1: + 6 wins
Year 2: +4 wins
Year 3: + 9 wins

Kyrie in those 3 years: ROY, all-star, all-star

please explain how they were expected to win more

2) Celtics

Kyrie joined a 53 win celtics team basically replacing IT.

Year 1: + 2 wins
Year 2: -6 wins

The only year that kyries team "won less than expected" was last year where the owner, gm, coach, former player, current players, and radio color analyst all agree it was a team issue and not a kyrie issue.

Amare_1_Knicks · Post #29 » by **Amare_1_Knicks** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 6:55 pm

He showed so many flashes in his rookie season where it looked like he’d obviously become one. Last year, with Kyrie and Hayward coming back he had less opportunity to showcase his talent(at least consistently, anyway) and it was also harder to gather just how much he improved because of that.

It’s hard to say how successful he’d be as the focal point of an offense but clearly he has a lot of tools at his disposal. He can shoot well(3’s, mid range, and FT’s), create off the dribble, finish at the rim, and post-up — so he does seem to have it all(plus the ability to play above the rim). If there’s anything holding him back, it’s going to be that he doesn’t really have any play-making skills worth speaking of — but even then, we’ve seen guys ‘get by’ and become franchise players without being high level passers.

Franchise player is a somewhat ambiguous term, FWIW. Surely, there are low-level franchise players but the first thought is to think of Kobe/Dirk/Lebron and compare guys to them. At any rate, Tatum certainly is not one at the moment.

sunsbg · Post #30 » by **sunsbg** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:16 pm

He was considered a Melo-light pre-draft, is he now a heavy-Melo ?

Curmudgeon · Post #31 » by **Curmudgeon** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:23 pm

sunsbg wrote:He was considered a Melo-light pre-draft, is he now a heavy-Melo ?

Who considered that? Whoever it was, he doesn't know a basketball from an avocado. Tatum plays defense and is a willing passer. Melo never played defense and was always a ball stopper. They hid Melo in a zone at Syracuse and it went downhill from there.

I don't know if Tatum will be a franchise player or not-- he's still only 21. But the Melo comparison is laughable.

TDotJon · Post #32 » by **TDotJon** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:24 pm

he's too soft to be an alpha.

ITYSL · Post #33 » by **ITYSL** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:26 pm

Froob wrote:Hope so, I think this is his big year. He looks a lot more muscular this season.

Also is tomorrow the Jaylen Brown thread or the Marcus Smart thread? Just want to be prepared.

Is Daniel Theis a top 10 big?

KrAzY3 · Post #34 » by **KrAzY3** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:33 pm

I don't get all the questions about Tatum. His last season he was 20, it was only his second year in the league and he still averaged 15.7.

To give an example, (and not saying he's on this level) but Kobe averaged 7.6 his first year in the league and 15.4 his second year in the league (when he was 19). He didn't really start to reach his potential until he was 22, his fifth year in the league.

Heck, look at Oladipo. When he was 22 he was just scratching at the surface. It wasn't until he was 25, in his fifth year in the league that he really showed what he could do.

McGrady averaged 15.4 as well when he was 20, in what was his third year in the league. Tatum has shown all the indications that he's capable of being a special player. That doesn't mean he'll realize it, but he's simply too young and hasn't been in the league long enough to know for sure how great he'll be.

Bird4Three · Post #35 » by **Bird4Three** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:46 pm

Y’all are so worried lol....I love it.

LBJKB24MJ23 · Post #36 » by **LBJKB24MJ23** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:51 pm

GOATTatum wrote:That dude Tatum is a superstar who can do it all, shoot, drive, score, pass, and defend, all at an elite level. 2019 was outlier because of moody ass Kyrie. Celtics now got the best point guard in the NBA as Tatum's sidekick. It's championship or bust for the next 15 years.

he's not elite at anything right now. :lol:

otherwise he'd be a superstar yesterday.

LoveTheNBA23 · Post #37 » by **LoveTheNBA23** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:54 pm

He isn’t a franchise player. I think his ceiling is third best player on a championship team type level but could be the second leading scorer.

Sane · Post #38 » by **Sane** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 8:13 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Sane wrote:Equally important, every team Kyrie has ever been a part of without Lebron James has won less than was expected. I expect that trend to continue, and I expect the Celtics to benefit from having a less talented but more suited PG in Kemba.

you say that like its a dozen teams and its true. its 2 teams and its false:

1) pre-lebron cavs

19-21 year old Kyrie joined a 19 win cavs team surrounded by hall of famers like dion waiters, tristan thompson, alonozo gee, and the corpse of antwan jamison. he got even more help when they drafted anthony bennet and signed the corpse of luol deng and earl clark:

Year 1: + 6 wins
Year 2: +4 wins
Year 3: + 9 wins

Kyrie in those 3 years: ROY, all-star, all-star

please explain how they were expected to win more

2) Celtics

Kyrie joined a 53 win celtics team basically replacing IT.

Year 1: + 2 wins
Year 2: -6 wins

The only year that kyries team "won less than expected" was last year where the owner, gm, coach, former player, current players, and radio color analyst all agree it was a team issue and not a kyrie issue.

Clearly you've done the research, so I assume you're aware that he won:

29 in his second season in the East
38 in his third season in the East

There is no question the Celtics played better without him. They dramatically outperformed expectations without him by making the ECF, and then they dramatically underperformed expectations in his second season when he played almost the whole season. If you can't acknowledge at least the Celtics part, then you are not being genuine here.

I don't care about ROY and All Star, I support a team that once had Steve Francis as its franchise player. I know how that stuff works.

evilpimp972 · Post #39 » by **evilpimp972** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 8:30 pm

KrAzY3 wrote:I don't get all the questions about Tatum. His last season he was 20, it was only his second year in the league and he still averaged 15.7.

To give an example, (and not saying he's on this level) but Kobe averaged 7.6 his first year in the league and 15.4 his second year in the league (when he was 19). He didn't really start to reach his potential until he was 22, his fifth year in the league.

Heck, look at Oladipo. When he was 22 he was just scratching at the surface. It wasn't until he was 25, in his fifth year in the league that he really showed what he could do.

McGrady averaged 15.4 as well when he was 20, in what was his third year in the league. Tatum has shown all the indications that he's capable of being a special player. That doesn't mean he'll realize it, but he's simply too young and hasn't been in the league long enough to know for sure how great he'll be.

Lol you can say the same thing for litterally every young players.

Post #40 » by **GeorgeMarcus** » Wed Sep 4, 2019 8:47 pm

GOATTatum wrote:That dude Tatum is a superstar who can do it all, shoot, drive, score, pass, and defend, all at an elite level. 2019 was outlier because of moody ass Kyrie. Celtics now got the best point guard in the NBA as Tatum's sidekick. It's championship or bust for the next 15 years.

I’m gonna ignore the overrating of Baked Patatum for a second and focus on the bolded. When did Curry go to Boston? I like Kemba but I’m not sure he’s top 5 at his position

Is Tatum a franchise player?