The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread

[MadGrinch]

I mean, I'm as big a Frank fan as anyone, and I do like RJ

But you are gonna need more playmaking if you put the two of them on court together. And not like a Siakam or a Randle type player, especially not this year neither Frank or RJ will be talented enough to be the primary facilitator

You get DSJ to take that next step I know he's capable of, that's what we'd need.

my question is why ?

the offense will almost certainly revolve around Randle who is a very good passer

RJ projects to be a point forward type or shooting guard equivalent

Smith won't be the main facilitator , neither would frank , nor elfrid.

Fizdale's offenses are star based and the team only has 1 star.

the real problem isn't people making plays , but people converting them.

[HarthorneWingo]

I mean, I'm as big a Frank fan as anyone, and I do like RJ

But you are gonna need more playmaking if you put the two of them on court together. And not like a Siakam or a Randle type player, especially not this year neither Frank or RJ will be talented enough to be the primary facilitator

You get DSJ to take that next step I know he's capable of, that's what we'd need.

my question is why ?

the offense will almost certainly revolve around Randle who is a very good passer

RJ projects to be a point forward type or shooting guard equivalent

Smith won't be the main facilitator , neither would frank , nor elfrid.

Fizdale's offenses are star based and the team only has 1 star.

the real problem isn't people making plays , but people converting them.

There is a real question about DSJ's decision making at PG.

[DOT]

I mean, I'm as big a Frank fan as anyone, and I do like RJ

But you are gonna need more playmaking if you put the two of them on court together. And not like a Siakam or a Randle type player, especially not this year neither Frank or RJ will be talented enough to be the primary facilitator

You get DSJ to take that next step I know he's capable of, that's what we'd need.

my question is why ?

the offense will almost certainly revolve around Randle who is a very good passer

RJ projects to be a point forward type or shooting guard equivalent

Smith won't be the main facilitator , neither would frank , nor elfrid.

Fizdale's offenses are star based and the team only has 1 star.

the real problem isn't people making plays , but people converting them.

Randle averaged 5.8 potential assists per game last year. Decent for a PF, terrible for a "star." Our best player in terms of potential assists was Mudiay, at 8.6, around 50th in the league. Only Miami, Cleveland, and the Clippers did not have a player with more potential assists than Mudiay last year, and pretty much both conference's top 5 teams had at least one guy who had 12 potential apg. There wasn't a big difference between the conversion rate of potential assists to assists, so yes the real problem was actually people making plays

DSJ in his time with us averaged 11 potential apg with us, which would have been 25th in the league. He's not a top tier playmaker, but he's much better than what we had most of last year, and the stats do show a correlation between teams with a primary playmaker in the 11-13 potential apg range and being good

And here's why I say Frank's a much better playmaker than people say, cause you look at his raw numbers and they're not impressive at all. But, he only got the ball about half as much as DSJ and Mudiay, about 60 passes to those two per game and only 34 to Frank (this includes being passed the ball from out of bounds). But then you look at his assist to pass% (how many of his passes were assists), and his assist to pass% adj (how many of his passes were assists, secondary assists, or free throw assists), and he's within one percentage point of DSJ, with the only person being significantly ahead of them being Kadeem

But Frank lacks the ability to score off the dribble, so you can't rely on him the same way you'd rely on a DSJ type, who just by nature exerts more pressure on the opposing team. Which is why his raw stats are so much lower than DSJ's despite their pretty similar advanced stats. You put DSJ and Frank together in the backcourt (DSJ is an underrated defender imo), and as long as their shots are good, they should play really well together cause they're both unselfish and good passers (DSJ is score first, but the data as well as they eye test tells me he's really underrated as a playmaker, plus our AST% was higher with him on than off).

Both fundamental knowledge of the game and statistical data show that we would be best with all 3 of DSJ/Frank/RJ on court at the same time.

[DOLPHIN2020]

He just doesn't play around the rim and hangs out around the perimeter. Look at De Colo for example, not the biggest guy but gets underneath the basket at the right times and gets easy buckets for it. Frank should have the size to do some damage around the rim, I don't know if he fears contact or just doesn't have the craftiness to get these opportunities or isn't aware that he's pretty tall. Or maybe it's just that teams are daring him to shoot. But he's been making them pay from 3 so hopefully that opens something up for him. Out of his 7 attempts 5 were 3s, he attempted 2 shots on drives to the rim one successful and one got blocked. Even driving and looking to pass is a rare sight. So for me it's the same criticism as it's been for years now, he still needs to attack more. I actually think there's a good chance they told him this at halftime.

I'm looking at this in stages. At the moment I am fine if he is not focusing on penetrating and scoring inside. Just continue to knock down those threes and become a reliable shooter. Once he solidifies that, then I'll worry about him attacking the rim.

Yes. Do this in NBA games and he stays in the league.

Are gonna have to max him out if he becomes a good 3 point shooter / defender in the NBA?

[Sark]

I'm looking at this in stages. At the moment I am fine if he is not focusing on penetrating and scoring inside. Just continue to knock down those threes and become a reliable shooter. Once he solidifies that, then I'll worry about him attacking the rim.

Yes. Do this in NBA games and he stays in the league.

Are gonna have to max him out if he becomes a good 3 point shooter / defender in the NBA?

No Frank is not getting a max. His contract isn't even up for 2 more years.

[FKF]

A game like today’s just shows you how much trash the Knicks coaching staff is.

You know they played Jordan right? Lol

Whos coaching staff is to blame for Franks poor performance against an actual good team like Germany

Looks like Fizdale.

Seriously though...so you guys don't want anyone to judge him based on how he played against Germany (a team that at least is competitive) but you do want him to be judged playing against arguably one of the worst team in the tournament (Jordan was ranked 49th in the world leading to qualifiers, they play in arguably the least I talented qualifying pool (Africa) where 5 teams have to be selected for the tournament).

The preseason can't come soon enough.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

You think the Knicks are competitive ?
They would lose in the 1st round of such tournament.

[spree2kawhi]

There is no star player on this team.

[MadGrinch]

I mean, I'm as big a Frank fan as anyone, and I do like RJ

But you are gonna need more playmaking if you put the two of them on court together. And not like a Siakam or a Randle type player, especially not this year neither Frank or RJ will be talented enough to be the primary facilitator

You get DSJ to take that next step I know he's capable of, that's what we'd need.

my question is why ?

the offense will almost certainly revolve around Randle who is a very good passer

RJ projects to be a point forward type or shooting guard equivalent

Smith won't be the main facilitator , neither would frank , nor elfrid.

Fizdale's offenses are star based and the team only has 1 star.

the real problem isn't people making plays , but people converting them.

There is a real question about DSJ's decision making at PG.

not really , if Fizdale has to question it too much he wont play it much especially considering he projects to be a better off the ball than RJ , elfrid and possibly frank as well, if he's better at finishing plays than starting them there is no reason to believe fizdale would try to fit a square peg in a round hole and RJ almost certainly will be the worse shooting perimeter player on the roster and will have to play.

[MadGrinch]

I mean, I'm as big a Frank fan as anyone, and I do like RJ

But you are gonna need more playmaking if you put the two of them on court together. And not like a Siakam or a Randle type player, especially not this year neither Frank or RJ will be talented enough to be the primary facilitator

You get DSJ to take that next step I know he's capable of, that's what we'd need.

my question is why ?

the offense will almost certainly revolve around Randle who is a very good passer

RJ projects to be a point forward type or shooting guard equivalent

Smith won't be the main facilitator , neither would frank , nor elfrid.

Fizdale's offenses are star based and the team only has 1 star.

the real problem isn't people making plays , but people converting them.

Randle averaged 5.8 potential assists per game last year. Decent for a PF, terrible for a "star." Our best player in terms of potential assists was Mudiay, at 8.6, around 50th in the league. Only Miami, Cleveland, and the Clippers did not have a player with more potential assists than Mudiay last year, and pretty much both conference's top 5 teams had at least one guy who had 12 potential apg. There wasn't a big difference between the conversion rate of potential assists to assists, so yes the real problem was actually people making plays

DSJ in his time with us averaged 11 potential apg with us, which would have been 25th in the league. He's not a top tier playmaker, but he's much better than what we had most of last year, and the stats do show a correlation between teams with a primary playmaker in the 11-13 potential apg range and being good

And here's why I say Frank's a much better playmaker than people say, cause you look at his raw numbers and they're not impressive at all. But, he only got the ball about half as much as DSJ and Mudiay, about 60 passes to those two per game and only 34 to Frank (this includes being passed the ball from out of bounds). But then you look at his assist to pass% (how many of his passes were assists), and his assist to pass% adj (how many of his passes were assists, secondary assists, or free throw assists), and he's within one percentage point of DSJ, with the only person being significantly ahead of them being Kadeem

But Frank lacks the ability to score off the dribble, so you can't rely on him the same way you'd rely on a DSJ type, who just by nature exerts more pressure on the opposing team. Which is why his raw stats are so much lower than DSJ's despite their pretty similar advanced stats. You put DSJ and Frank together in the backcourt (DSJ is an underrated defender imo), and as long as their shots are good, they should play really well together cause they're both unselfish and good passers (DSJ is score first, but the data as well as they eye test tells me he's really underrated as a playmaker, plus our AST% was higher with him on than off).

Both fundamental knowledge of the game and statistical data show that we would be best with all 3 of DSJ/Frank/RJ on court at the same time.

Randle played on the pelicans last season where the coach had his star in AD but also relied a fair bit on the playmaking of elfrid and jrue holiday

in fizdale's lone full season coaching the grizzlies both of his stars(conley and gasol) had career seasons offensively and the team went from having 8 players average double digits to 3 (zach randolph was the other and had his highest usage in 10 seasons despite the fact he was clearly past his prime) he runs his offense through his stars and surrounds them with players who defend and space the floor , giving his stars more room to operate and covering for them defensively (even though conley and gasol are actually great defensively) .

in memphis this led to the team going from 19th to 7th overall defensively also they shot about 600 more threes than the previous season

in new york it was obviously a developmental season but the knicks shot about 500 more threes under fizdale than hornacek's last season and hornacek had porzingis.

he's going to give the ball to randle and run the offense through him,

he will also give the ball to portis off the bench (nobody's talking about that but watch and see)

if he's gonna give the ball to a 3rd player it won't be smith , it will be RJ because Fizdale has a boss and they are gonna sell tickets and get ratings with RJ ...if RJ sucks they all get fired .

the only real chance Smith jr. will have to run the team will be off the bench because Portis is not much of a passer , but chances are it will be elfrid as the primary ball handler

[thebuzzardman]

my question is why ?

the offense will almost certainly revolve around Randle who is a very good passer

RJ projects to be a point forward type or shooting guard equivalent

Smith won't be the main facilitator , neither would frank , nor elfrid.

Fizdale's offenses are star based and the team only has 1 star.

the real problem isn't people making plays , but people converting them.

There is a real question about DSJ's decision making at PG.

not really , if Fizdale has to question it too much he wont play it much especially considering he projects to be a better off the ball than RJ , elfrid and possibly frank as well, if he's better at finishing plays than starting them there is no reason to believe fizdale would try to fit a square peg in a round hole and RJ almost certainly will be the worse shooting perimeter player on the roster and will have to play.

I think DSJr's decision making is anywhere from "good" to "ok" or even "fair" but I think all of them are good enough.
Might sound like heresy, but I'm not sure how much "good" decision making from a PG matters so much anymore. Is it a positive when it's there? Absolutely. What is needed is the absence of "bad" decision making - hogging the ball, actively looking off team mates, taking ill advised shots, etc. I seen none of that with DSJr.

Obviously a PG who really understands the whole floor, two steps ahead etc, is a better thing, but ONLY if that comes with the ability to break down the defense and shoot well enough. Fairly apparent DSJr is better than average at the first aspect and we'll wait and see about his shooting, though he's not terrible, is working on it, and is young.

Anyway, quoting previous poster just to jump in.

I like Frank. The people that like his game praise his decision making, height and especially defense at the point of attack.

Some people would like to see that next to DSJr

RJ brings height, decision making at the SG spot. Obviously he had knocks on his defensive effort at college but I think he wasn't a bad defender. He's certainly willing. Anyway, edge Frank, there.

I really can't see any coach playing Frank, even if he's making jumpers, over a guy drafted #3, who shows a willingness pass and some vision, should be able to eventually drive the ball well in the NBA (or will right away - it's a question, right?) and for the shooting...well, I'd think RJ's minutes will depend on how well he shoots. I think IF Fiz shortens his minutes, not a given with how Knox was treated last year, then the availability of guards who can SHOOT - Dotson and Ellington - are there to reduce them, and of course, Trier can SCORE, so he's an all around option if RJ isn't getting it going a particular game. Plus Trier is a good shooter as well, minus 3 point range, which I think will come along.

Anyway, I guess it's related to the fact the team has a few guys who can function as secondary playmakers (including Frank! - Who face it, isn't going to play) so DSJr doesn't have to be a "very good" decision maker, but a decent one, which he seems to be, at least, already.

Also, I have to shine in on Randle. I think it's wrong to hold his assists and potential assists to a "star" as well. He wasn't the first option on that team. Anyway, I'd say dishing an average of 3 assists per game from the PF/C slot indicates a willing and decent passer. No one is going to confuse him with a Jokic, Sabonis or even Brad Miller, but it indicates a player willing to pass. I guess there could be some questioning if he's the kind of guy who gets assists off being "ball dominant" but that doesn't seem to be so, or at least not terribly.

Anyway, DSJr, RJ, Frank, Trier at times, Randle, Morris, Gibson, Iggy - all seem to be willing enough passers. That's half the team. Ball movement or lack of it will be on the coach. There are guys willing to move it.

[br7knicks]

Watch on YouTube

why did frank make a few shots and then immediately get up on the opposing player to play defense? is that good basketball? it can't be, because he's so bad at basketball.

why did he pass so much, and smart passes, too? he should've shot it, instead, about 13 more times.that can't be good basketball, either.


hopefully the knicks trade him. frank seems too smart, with good instincts, with too good of defense to be on the knicks

[Zenzibar]

Watch on YouTube

why did frank make a few shots and then immediately get up on the opposing player to play defense? is that good basketball? it can't be, because he's so bad at basketball.

why did he pass so much, and smart passes, too? he should've shot it, instead, about 13 more times.that can't be good basketball, either.


hopefully the knicks trade him. frank seems too smart, with good instincts, with too good of defense to be on the knicks

where's the green?

[FKF]

Watch on YouTube

why did frank make a few shots and then immediately get up on the opposing player to play defense? is that good basketball? it can't be, because he's so bad at basketball.

why did he pass so much, and smart passes, too? he should've shot it, instead, about 13 more times.that can't be good basketball, either.


hopefully the knicks trade him. frank seems too smart, with good instincts, with too good of defense to be on the knicks

[Clyde_Style]

There is a real question about DSJ's decision making at PG.

not really , if Fizdale has to question it too much he wont play it much especially considering he projects to be a better off the ball than RJ , elfrid and possibly frank as well, if he's better at finishing plays than starting them there is no reason to believe fizdale would try to fit a square peg in a round hole and RJ almost certainly will be the worse shooting perimeter player on the roster and will have to play.

I think DSJr's decision making is anywhere from "good" to "ok" or even "fair" but I think all of them are good enough.
Might sound like heresy, but I'm not sure how much "good" decision making from a PG matters so much anymore. Is it a positive when it's there? Absolutely. What is needed is the absence of "bad" decision making - hogging the ball, actively looking off team mates, taking ill advised shots, etc. I seen none of that with DSJr.

Obviously a PG who really understands the whole floor, two steps ahead etc, is a better thing, but ONLY if that comes with the ability to break down the defense and shoot well enough. Fairly apparent DSJr is better than average at the first aspect and we'll wait and see about his shooting, though he's not terrible, is working on it, and is young.

Anyway, quoting previous poster just to jump in.

I like Frank. The people that like his game praise his decision making, height and especially defense at the point of attack.

Some people would like to see that next to DSJr

RJ brings height, decision making at the SG spot. Obviously he had knocks on his defensive effort at college but I think he wasn't a bad defender. He's certainly willing. Anyway, edge Frank, there.

I really can't see any coach playing Frank, even if he's making jumpers, over a guy drafted #3, who shows a willingness pass and some vision, should be able to eventually drive the ball well in the NBA (or will right away - it's a question, right?) and for the shooting...well, I'd think RJ's minutes will depend on how well he shoots. I think IF Fiz shortens his minutes, not a given with how Knox was treated last year, then the availability of guards who can SHOOT - Dotson and Ellington - are there to reduce them, and of course, Trier can SCORE, so he's an all around option if RJ isn't getting it going a particular game. Plus Trier is a good shooter as well, minus 3 point range, which I think will come along.

Anyway, I guess it's related to the fact the team has a few guys who can function as secondary playmakers (including Frank! - Who face it, isn't going to play) so DSJr doesn't have to be a "very good" decision maker, but a decent one, which he seems to be, at least, already.

Also, I have to shine in on Randle. I think it's wrong to hold his assists and potential assists to a "star" as well. He wasn't the first option on that team. Anyway, I'd say dishing an average of 3 assists per game from the PF/C slot indicates a willing and decent passer. No one is going to confuse him with a Jokic, Sabonis or even Brad Miller, but it indicates a player willing to pass. I guess there could be some questioning if he's the kind of guy who gets assists off being "ball dominant" but that doesn't seem to be so, or at least not terribly.

Anyway, DSJr, RJ, Frank, Trier at times, Randle, Morris, Gibson, Iggy - all seem to be willing enough passers. That's half the team. Ball movement or lack of it will be on the coach. There are guys willing to move it.

Overall, this is true in that the onus is on Fiz to drill into the team as a whole to keep the ball moving. If he succeeds in that part of coaching, it would be his biggest contribution IMO. Do that and I think you'll be largely correct that it would be a team less dependent on full-time facilitation from the one position and more reliant on everyone making the proper cuts and reads and finding one another.

I'll certainly take it if it means you end up with 5 guys averaging 3 assists, one guy with 8 APG and maybe one other in the middle of that range.

[Clyde_Style]

Watch on YouTube

why did frank make a few shots and then immediately get up on the opposing player to play defense? is that good basketball? it can't be, because he's so bad at basketball.

why did he pass so much, and smart passes, too? he should've shot it, instead, about 13 more times.that can't be good basketball, either.


hopefully the knicks trade him. frank seems too smart, with good instincts, with too good of defense to be on the knicks

I'm beginning to suspect you and Buzz are working together

[Deeeez Knicks]

It is true that we don’t have an elite or even above avg floor general and facilitator right now. Maybe 1 or more of our young guys can develop into one.

That’s why we need a good offensive system to run that fits the roster. We really don’t have the talent to let players free style and go nuts like last year with Timmy, Burke, Mudiay,etc. We can put our players in better positions to succeed with some play calls. There are a lot of ways to get Randle/Knox/RJ going....Mitch will be a big weapon in pick n rolls. Would love to see some Frank/Mitch pick n rolls. There's got to be better ball and player movement. Last year got ugly at times.

[god shammgod]

rj will be the facilitator. he has the best instincts and vision of all the guards.

[K_ick_God]

rj will be the facilitator. he has the best instincts and vision of all the guards.

He and Frank could work. Not sure. We'd have to see it. But I can't see DJ doing well off ball.

[Deeeez Knicks]

rj will be the facilitator. he has the best instincts and vision of all the guards.

He and Frank could work. Not sure. We'd have to see it. But I can't see DJ doing well off ball.

Yeah, Frank/RJ could work, and has potential to be our best backcourt. RJ is at his best with the ball in his hands as a facilitator.

Just depends how much Frank can improve.

[HarthorneWingo]

One thing the guy who put together the video breakdown of Frank's game against the DR said that rang true to me is that "with Frank, it's always going to be baby steps." That seems to be the case so far though I don't know that Fizdale has helped much in this department. Anyhow, I think we're beginning to see the type of game that Frank brings to the table. He's still a little cautious but I feel like that he will continue to improve as he gets more comfortable with consistent minutes.