Who is the 3rd best team in the East?

[nikster]

I don't particularly buy it, but whatever. To paraphrase, sample size matters and Pascal Siakam is no longer an unknown. You better believe defenses will be keying on him hardcore. It will be interesting to see what he does given the change in circumstance. Can he step up and lead, or will he lead Toronto to the top of the East? I look forward to finding out...

The idea that other teams weren't scheming for Siakam is ridiculous. It was well known what he was doing and he was still able to deliver.

I'm sorry, knowing what he can do, and devoting the attention to stop him as the main scorer are two very different things. Siakam is the guy who's going to draw all that attention that Kawhi got last year. How he handles that, rather than being the guy to benefit from the attention Kawhi got, will determine the outcome of your season IMO...

Siakam went through a long Orlando team, and then being Defended by Embiid, Giannis and Draymond. Sure it will be harder without Kawhi taking attention but I still don’t see the regular season being harder for him than this post season run.

[nikster]

i need to see Boston play defense without Horford before I think they're 3rd best. Can they play defense around Kanter? Or is Time Lord ready to contribute 20mpg?
Too many questions on that roster. Tatum, Brown and Hayward are high variables. All 3 of them could be all-star level players, or they could all be like last year (that is to say: Not good at all).

I don't know how well Toronto will score. It's not just Kawhi, they have less shooting this year with Green and Kawhi being replaced by Norm and OG. I also don't know how long they hold onto their vets. But I know they're going to play elite defense and play good team basketball. I'm going Toronto as a safer bet.

We're replacing Green with Matt Thomas. Shooting should be around the same as last year for Toronto. Middle of the pack

I’m excited about Thomas but we’re not even sure he’s a rotation player yet. He almost certainly won’t be starting or replacing the large volume of 3s green shot.

[nikster]

Pacers are so underrated. It wouldn't be responsible for me to bet any more of my family's wealth on their record this year, but let's just say we're all feeling very confident.

If it wasn’t for questions about Oladipos health id easily have them top 3

[Gooner]

Kawhi a fringe all star? Yeah, sure. You can't replace an all time great player. We'll see how it goes without him, I think they are gonna struggle to make the playoffs.

I think this is the worst prediction I’ve seen in this thread. They were a 59 win team in 2018, this team isnt much worse.

team might be better honestly

They had DeRozan in 2018. Say what you want about him but the guy would give you over 20 points per game. Who is gonna score now? Lowry can't do it anymore, Siakam is not built for that role, Gasol is declining like Lowry...there isn't enough talent there. Why would Raptors be so much better than a team like Orlando?

[Gooner]

The idea that other teams weren't scheming for Siakam is ridiculous. It was well known what he was doing and he was still able to deliver.

I'm sorry, knowing what he can do, and devoting the attention to stop him as the main scorer are two very different things. Siakam is the guy who's going to draw all that attention that Kawhi got last year. How he handles that, rather than being the guy to benefit from the attention Kawhi got, will determine the outcome of your season IMO...

Siakam went through a long Orlando team, and then being Defended by Embiid, Giannis and Draymond. Sure it will be harder without Kawhi taking attention but I still don’t see the regular season being harder for him than this post season run.

Yeah, it will be a lot harder without Kawhi takign attention. It will be a lot harder for everyone.

[cupcakesnake]

i need to see Boston play defense without Horford before I think they're 3rd best. Can they play defense around Kanter? Or is Time Lord ready to contribute 20mpg?
Too many questions on that roster. Tatum, Brown and Hayward are high variables. All 3 of them could be all-star level players, or they could all be like last year (that is to say: Not good at all).

I don't know how well Toronto will score. It's not just Kawhi, they have less shooting this year with Green and Kawhi being replaced by Norm and OG. I also don't know how long they hold onto their vets. But I know they're going to play elite defense and play good team basketball. I'm going Toronto as a safer bet.

We're replacing Green with Matt Thomas. Shooting should be around the same as last year for Toronto. Middle of the pack

I’m excited about Thomas but we’re not even sure he’s a rotation player yet. He almost certainly won’t be starting or replacing the large volume of 3s green shot.

The Matt Thomas hype by a certain sect of Raptors fans is a bit baffling. I looked up footage to try to understand. He's definitely a great shooter with a nice release. He doesn't look like a clear cut NBA player. He has a little bit of handle but is a below-average NBA athlete. It would be extremely unexpected if Matt Thomas approached Danny Green minutes (28mpg). Green's combination of defense and shooting made him a great addition to every lineup, Matt Thomas will only be used in lineups where his shooting is sorely needed and he can be hidden defensively. He will not be able to play both wing positions on defense like Green could. A successful Matt Thomas story is him making the rotation at all (I do think that the glut of beast wing defenders who can't shoot will make Thomas uniquely needed.) It is an if that he will become an NBA rotation player. Remember that Nik Stauskas is out of the NBA, and he seemed like one of the best shooters in the world.

Norm and OG are first in line by far to receive the minutes left behind by Danny and Kawhi. While both guys have flashed some shooting ability, they represent a significant downgrade in terms of shooting. Danny and Kawhi are two of the most threatening wing shooters in the NBA. Matt Thomas is the only shooter vying for minutes on the wing, with the rest of the potential rotation (Rondae, Stanley Johnson and Patrick McCaw) being bad shooters. The Raps stayed afloat with Kawhi out of lineups by being able to put out 5 guys at a time who could shoot, defend and pass. They won't have that luxury this year and Nick Nurse will have to be even more creative on offense for this team to be a top 15 offense.

[Asif16]

We're replacing Green with Matt Thomas. Shooting should be around the same as last year for Toronto. Middle of the pack

I’m excited about Thomas but we’re not even sure he’s a rotation player yet. He almost certainly won’t be starting or replacing the large volume of 3s green shot.

The Matt Thomas hype by a certain sect of Raptors fans is a bit baffling. I looked up footage to try to understand. He's definitely a great shooter with a nice release. He doesn't look like a clear cut NBA player. He has a little bit of handle but is a below-average NBA athlete. It would be extremely unexpected if Matt Thomas approached Danny Green minutes (28mpg). Green's combination of defense and shooting made him a great addition to every lineup, Matt Thomas will only be used in lineups where his shooting is sorely needed and he can be hidden defensively. He will not be able to play both wing positions on defense like Green could. A successful Matt Thomas story is him making the rotation at all (I do think that the glut of beast wing defenders who can't shoot will make Thomas uniquely needed.) It is an if that he will become an NBA rotation player. Remember that Nik Stauskas is out of the NBA, and he seemed like one of the best shooters in the world.

Norm and OG are first in line by far to receive the minutes left behind by Danny and Kawhi. While both guys have flashed some shooting ability, they represent a significant downgrade in terms of shooting. Danny and Kawhi are two of the most threatening wing shooters in the NBA. Matt Thomas is the only shooter vying for minutes on the wing, with the rest of the potential rotation (Rondae, Stanley Johnson and Patrick McCaw) being bad shooters. The Raps stayed afloat with Kawhi out of lineups by being able to put out 5 guys at a time who could shoot, defend and pass. They won't have that luxury this year and Nick Nurse will have to be even more creative on offense for this team to be a top 15 offense.

We've been hyping up Matt Thomas? Thats new. I just mentioned him as a guy who can replace the 3's Danny gave us, but obviously he needs to become a serious rotation player first.

But regardless I mentioned that the Raps will be middle of the pack in 3 pt shooting anyways. OG and Powell without a doubt will get the most opportunity to shine. They're not terrible 3pt shooters.

I do agree that offense might could be a real struggle for the Raps next year. Im expecting to see some low scoring games from our behalf next season

[nikster]

I'm sorry, knowing what he can do, and devoting the attention to stop him as the main scorer are two very different things. Siakam is the guy who's going to draw all that attention that Kawhi got last year. How he handles that, rather than being the guy to benefit from the attention Kawhi got, will determine the outcome of your season IMO...

Siakam went through a long Orlando team, and then being Defended by Embiid, Giannis and Draymond. Sure it will be harder without Kawhi taking attention but I still don’t see the regular season being harder for him than this post season run.

Yeah, it will be a lot harder without Kawhi takign attention. It will be a lot harder for everyone.

I ssee him putting up similar numbers or better to what he did in the playoffs. Time will tell

[cupcakesnake]

I think this is the worst prediction I’ve seen in this thread. They were a 59 win team in 2018, this team isnt much worse.

team might be better honestly

They had DeRozan in 2018. Say what you want about him but the guy would give you over 20 points per game. Who is gonna score now? Lowry can't do it anymore, Siakam is not built for that role, Gasol is declining like Lowry...there isn't enough talent there. Why would Raptors be so much better than a team like Orlando?

The Raptors went 17-5 without Leonard last year, (including a weird 8-2 on back to backs). This is a number that is a bit misleading as a projection (Green helped, who they beat, vets will be worse maybe, yung guys will be better maybe), but it is an important remember that Toronto has a deep, resourceful squad.

Toronto probably projects as a below-average offense next year. But their defense should be top 5 (they bring elite defenders at every position, starting and off the bench). The difference between them and Orlando (another team that should boast an elite defense) is the difference between a below-average offense and a bad one. I'll take a declined Lowry over DJ Augustine 100 times out of 100, and Pascal Siakam is a more dynamic threat than anyone on Orlando's roster outside of maybe Vooch. Gasol, Lowry and Siakam are extremely versatile offensive players who are easy to play with. I'm guessing Toronto ends up the 10th-15th (they were 5th last year) ranked offense where Orlando will be 17th-22nd (they were 22 last years).

In a perfect Orlando world, Markelle Fultz becomes a real player and (more realistically) Aaron Gordon takes another sneaky step forward on offense; in general, Orlando's offense, with it's lack of guard play and it's dependance on tweener defensive forwards will make for a clunky offense around Vooch. I also think Nick Nurse is a high level offensive coach, where Steve Clifford is a defensive guru who doesn't have a huge track record of successful offense (might be unfair, he hasn't exactly coached offensively gifted personnel).

Not to pile on old Derozan hate, but it's been debated forever whether or not Derozan was helpful or harmful to the Raptors. He might have helped their offense with his scoring (debatable until he became an ok passer) and he certainly harmed their defense.

[Duffman100]

team might be better honestly

They had DeRozan in 2018. Say what you want about him but the guy would give you over 20 points per game. Who is gonna score now? Lowry can't do it anymore, Siakam is not built for that role, Gasol is declining like Lowry...there isn't enough talent there. Why would Raptors be so much better than a team like Orlando?

The Raptors went 17-5 without Leonard last year, (including a weird 8-2 on back to backs). This is a number that is a bit misleading as a projection (Green helped, who they beat, vets will be worse maybe, yung guys will be better maybe), but it is an important remember that Toronto has a deep, resourceful squad.

Toronto probably projects as a below-average offense next year. But their defense should be top 5 (they bring elite defenders at every position, starting and off the bench). The difference between them and Orlando (another team that should boast an elite defense) is the difference between a below-average offense and a bad one. I'll take a declined Lowry over DJ Augustine 100 times out of 100, and Pascal Siakam is a more dynamic threat than anyone on Orlando's roster outside of maybe Vooch. Gasol, Lowry and Siakam are extremely versatile offensive players who are easy to play with. I'm guessing Toronto ends up the 10th-15th (they were 5th last year) ranked offense where Orlando will be 17th-22nd (they were 22 last years).

In a perfect Orlando world, Markelle Fultz becomes a real player and (more realistically) Aaron Gordon takes another sneaky step forward on offense; in general, Orlando's offense, with it's lack of guard play and it's dependance on tweener defensive forwards will make for a clunky offense around Vooch. I also think Nick Nurse is a high level offensive coach, where Steve Clifford is a defensive guru who doesn't have a huge track record of successful offense (might be unfair, he hasn't exactly coached offensively gifted personnel).

Not to pile on old Derozan hate, but it's been debated forever whether or not Derozan was helpful or harmful to the Raptors. He might have helped their offense with his scoring (debatable until he became an ok passer) and he certainly harmed their defense.

Might be the best analysis of the Raptors from a non-Raptors fan I've seen in a long time.

[mowcrowbar]

Raptors are second best regular season team and 3rd best playoff team. Went 17-5 without Kawhi last year, Siakam’s improving at a very fast rate, will have full season with Gasol, and Anunoby will be 22 and healthy. They’re definitely more talented than Boston.

Lowry > Kemba
Powell < Brown
Siakam >> Tatum
Ibaka = Hayward
Gasol >>> Kanter

Van Vleet < Smart
Anunoby > Ojeleye

Let's try to be objective for once.

[nikster]

Raptors are second best regular season team and 3rd best playoff team. Went 17-5 without Kawhi last year, Siakam’s improving at a very fast rate, will have full season with Gasol, and Anunoby will be 22 and healthy. They’re definitely more talented than Boston.

Lowry > Kemba
Powell < Brown
Siakam >> Tatum
Ibaka = Hayward
Gasol >>> Kanter

Van Vleet < Smart
Anunoby > Ojeleye

Let's try to be objective for once.

What do you disagree with? Kemba might be better than Lowry, and if Hayward returns to form he could be better than Hayward, but otherwise its spot on. Could also argue FVV is better than Smart

[freethedevil]

They had DeRozan in 2018. Say what you want about him but the guy would give you over 20 points per game. Who is gonna score now? Lowry can't do it anymore, Siakam is not built for that role, Gasol is declining like Lowry...there isn't enough talent there. Why would Raptors be so much better than a team like Orlando?

The Raptors went 17-5 without Leonard last year, (including a weird 8-2 on back to backs). This is a number that is a bit misleading as a projection (Green helped, who they beat, vets will be worse maybe, yung guys will be better maybe), but it is an important remember that Toronto has a deep, resourceful squad.

Toronto probably projects as a below-average offense next year. But their defense should be top 5 (they bring elite defenders at every position, starting and off the bench). The difference between them and Orlando (another team that should boast an elite defense) is the difference between a below-average offense and a bad one. I'll take a declined Lowry over DJ Augustine 100 times out of 100, and Pascal Siakam is a more dynamic threat than anyone on Orlando's roster outside of maybe Vooch. Gasol, Lowry and Siakam are extremely versatile offensive players who are easy to play with. I'm guessing Toronto ends up the 10th-15th (they were 5th last year) ranked offense where Orlando will be 17th-22nd (they were 22 last years).

In a perfect Orlando world, Markelle Fultz becomes a real player and (more realistically) Aaron Gordon takes another sneaky step forward on offense; in general, Orlando's offense, with it's lack of guard play and it's dependance on tweener defensive forwards will make for a clunky offense around Vooch. I also think Nick Nurse is a high level offensive coach, where Steve Clifford is a defensive guru who doesn't have a huge track record of successful offense (might be unfair, he hasn't exactly coached offensively gifted personnel).

Not to pile on old Derozan hate, but it's been debated forever whether or not Derozan was helpful or harmful to the Raptors. He might have helped their offense with his scoring (debatable until he became an ok passer) and he certainly harmed their defense.

Might be the best analysis of the Raptors from a non-Raptors fan I've seen in a long time.

Only addition I'd add is that the top 5 defense probably undersells them. They could be the league's best defense, tbh

[mcmurphy]

If you don't think Toronto doesn't arrive in the top 3 of the RS in East, you are foolish.

They don't have Kawhi anymore.

mmmmmmh...I don't' know

People are sleeping on Brooklyn. If they sign Melo, they are gonna be tough for anybody, and I'm not joking.

ok, ok... you are joking


I'm not a Toronto fan, but a reigning champion that in the last 4 seasons averaged 56 wins, with at worst top3 GM, a good coach...
3 players in the starting lineup with BPM >3.0

I find it really difficult (except for serious injuries) not to arrive among the top 3 team in East (in the last seasons 50-51 wins are enough)

[basketballRob]

Richardson is a lot better than Redick, and our bench is a lot better too

LMAO. Ok, lets wait for the season to start to see who is right. Can't believe how underappreciated Redick's shooting was for Philly.

You don’t think Richardson is better than Redick? LMAO indeed...

When you can’t dribble, pass, or defend and consistently get exploited in the playoffs, you have to shoot better than 39.7 from 3 to earn your keep.

The guy is non stop running on offense, which is a good defense. I've seen so many players have no legs after chasing him on defense.



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