dhsilv2 wrote:Gooner wrote:HeartBreakKid wrote:
Again...most skilled does not mean better. Olajuwon would embarrass Jokic in what way?
Jokic is not even a fraction of the athlete Hakeem is and is still one of the best players in the league. Jokic is one of the best passers in the league, and probably the best passing center - Hakeem was not a good passer for most of his career. Jokic's shooting range is much better. Jokic is not as good in the paint in Olajuwon, but the way he scores is more heavily reliant on skill than Olajuwon's methods (floaters, runners, baby hooks he uses in much higher volume than Hakeem and with less lift). Jokic gets rebounds off of reads and boxing out. He is an elite screener. Elite pick and pop. Elite high post hub. He can run the fast break while dribbling full court. He can outlet pass....Jokic isn't even a bad defender, he is actually stereotyped to be one because of how awful of an athlete he is.
So again, what do you mean he would "embarrass" Jokic? I'm sorry, there is like no argument that Olajuwon is a more skilled player than Jokic (I seriously cannot think of one) - unless you think that because Olajuwon is one of the GOATs and Jokic is not that means he is automatically more skilled?
No offense to posters here, but saying Hakeem is the most skilled big of all time is almost like saying he isn't an elite athlete. People here correlate goodness with player attributes too much. Hakeem is a skilled, high IQ player with elite athleticism, this doesn't mean that he has goat skill, goat, iq, and goat athleticism.
You are actually questioning Hakeem's skill. You can read everything on this forum. You mention Jokic and his use of floaters, runners and baby hooks. Hakeem used all of that more than him, with more variety. He was also crossing people up, his footwork was better, he had a turnaround jumper, dream shake...
Hakeem was a great passer too, go watch some of his games. I don't know where you get these ideas from. It seems to me that you always try to downplay MJ's generation. Hakeem just didn't play in an era wher bigs were used as main playmakers. Every big has higher assist numbers today compared to like 5 years ago, it's because of the way they are used in this three point shooting league. Look at Cousins, Griffin or Horford. You see Jokic running a fast break today, just imagine Hakeem in that position, who was twice as fast, and he had a better handle. Playing in today's small ball, three point shooting league, it would be a child's play for Olajuwon. Nobody even double teams a center anymore.
You can always tell someone who doesn't know basketball by if they think hakeem was a good passer. Hakeem was considered for most of his career as a blackhole on offense. He routinely over dribbled, missed obvious passes, and even when he saw them would take too long to turned easy passes into hard ones. his teammates discussed how they'd not get to optimal SPACES on the floor but would try to get open in eye range of hakeem so they could make passing easier for him. The entire wheel spoke system was designed to make it easier for hakeem to become a passer.
Do you know what a cross over is? It hinges on for big guys being ELITE athletes, not skills. A crossover is a showcase of athletic ability, large hands, agility, being able to shift weight from side to side. Yes there is a skill level needed but it's comparative to passing a very low skill high athletic move.
So many bad takes here so little time. Hakeem wasn’t a great passer but he wasn’t a bad one like say Dwight Howard. Orlando used the same system for D12 yet he averaged only 1.5 assists per game vs 3.5 per game for Hakeem during those years.
You are conveniently ignoring that Hakeem had the greatest footwork of any player in the history of the game. Players flock to him to this day to learn his secrets. His dream shake was a move few big men have ever had the footwork, balance and court awareness to be able to pull off.
A crossover is part of ball handling. Ball handling is a skill. Having a better, quicker crossover shows a higher level of skill. You are using a ridiculous narrative to try and prop one player up while downplaying another. It makes zero sense. George Ackles of UNLV may have been the most athletic big man I’ve ever seen...go watch him try to perform a crossover and tell me again how it isn’t a skill.
This entire argument seems to be centered around passing being the most important sign of “skill” in a player. That’s nonsense. It’s one of many. Ball handling, footwork, rebounding, passing, inside scoring, outside shooting, shot diversity, hell even shot blocking is a skill. Shot blocking takes great timing and anticipation, the biggest and most athletic dudes aren’t automatically great shot blockers. Two of the best, Hakeem and Russell, were undersized compared to their counter parts but they had the skills to be great at it.
Again I’m not a Rockets fans, I’m actually a Lakers fan. But if you don’t think Hakeem was the most skilled big man, and in the conversation for skilled player ever? Help yourself and do some research. Watch some old games.
People see an Hakeem, a Jordan, a Kobe and think they live off their “athleticism”. Problem is that there are lots of 6’9 or 6’10 athletic big men. Many never make the NBA. There are plenty of 6’6 athletic players that end up as defensive specialists around the league. They aren’t a Jordan or a Kobe. People like to down play their unbelievable skills and pass it off as “athleticism”. That’s a very uninformed outlook on the game of basketball. All three of those dudes have a ridiculous amount of skill and craft to their game. It speaks more about you than them if you can’t see it.
