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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#221 » by payitforward » Sat Sep 7, 2019 3:34 pm

It's a fun idea -- but I can't see a reason for us to do it. Except that it shortens the salary load going forward.

In effect, this is just Paul for Wall -- everybody else is expiring.

I imagine we'd win something like 45 games, but we wouldn't threaten in the East.

One benefit would be to take some pressure off of Rui, who wouldn't play nearly as much w/ Gallo around.

Plus... who is backing up Thomas Bryant after we do this deal?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#222 » by nate33 » Sat Sep 7, 2019 7:34 pm

penbeast0 wrote:Conjuring the ghost of George Allen, the Wiz decide to try to be relevant THIS year.

We send John Wall, Ian Mahinmi, and Davis Bertrans to OKC for Chris Paul and Daniel Gallinari.
We do it to try to be relevant in the East now.

OKC decides by the time they start to turn it around Wall will be worth more than Paul (probably then they make the rumored Adams for Hayward deal to double down on rehab) with Bertrans being a younger and similar player to Gallinari.

If (a BIG IF) we then stay healthy, how far do you think we are likely to go in the East?

I don't think I'd even do this but just for thought . . .

I don't think OKC does it.

At the moment Paul is more valuable than Wall. He is currently healthy and his contract is a year shorter. (Also, I don't think insurance would cover Wall's contract if he is traded, but I may be wrong about that.) And Bertans and Gallinari are both UFA's next summer. Their age is irrelevant. Both guys only have value for this year and Gallinari is clearly the better player.

I'd certainly do the trade. And then I'd look to move Paul to Miami and flip Gallinari for a pick and an expiring.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#223 » by penbeast0 » Sat Sep 7, 2019 8:35 pm

IF Paul could be moved to Miami reasonably, OKC would do it themselves. This is just a fun idea based on Paul's contract (like Wall's) being immobile with Paul having more short term value and Wall more long term. So, try to concentrate the short term value on Paul's team and the bad contracts and draft choices on Wall's. On the trade board, I wrote an OKC version of this which to me makes more sense than this one but, as PIF said, it's just for fun. I wouldn't do it because I don't see how you get that one more good vet to make us a legit contender salarywise.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#224 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:29 am

Did anyone hear/read this comment by Zach Lowe?

I'm curious what LAC could possibly still have in their possession that would appeal to Wizards?

Read on Twitter
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#225 » by nate33 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:33 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Did anyone hear/read this comment by Zach Lowe?

I'm curious what LAC could possibly still have in their possession that would appeal to Wizards?

Read on Twitter

Oh great. Another one of those "Team X has interest in Bradley Beal" stories. Of course Team X has interest in Bradley Beal. EVERYONE has interest in Bradley Beal, because he's really good, still young, and has a style of game that can blend into any system.

It's surely just an offhand comment morphing into a trade rumor. The Clippers have no assets. They traded them all away for Paul George. They can't possibly obtain Beal unless they trade Kawhi. They only pick they have available to trade is their 2020 1st, which is likely to be the #26 pick in the draft. What? Do they think they can get Beal for Shamet, Harkless, Zubak and the #26 pick? GTFO of here.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#226 » by nate33 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:40 pm

While contemplating an Ian Mahinmi for Steven Adams trade that was brought up in the "let's cut Mahinmi thread", I came up with this idea:

Washington trades: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles, Ish Smith, Isaac Bonga
Washington receives: Gordon Hayward, Robert Williams

OKC trades: Steven Adams, 2nd round pick
OKC receives: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles

Boston trades: Gordon Hayward, Robert Williams
Boston receives: Steven Adams, Isaac Bonga, Ish Smith, 2nd round pick

Why for Washington: We turn useless players into the very useful, albeit overpaid Gordon Hayward and a young backup center. Hayward's massive salary only lasts one more year and we're not really doing much with that cap space anyhow. This keeps our 2021 options open.

Why for OKC: They dump the final year of Adam's contract at the cost of a 2nd round pick. They save $1.6M this year Miles will be useful to them as a floor spacer. We could send them Ish instead of Miles and they would save $3.5M and get out of the luxtax completely, but they might balk at adding yet another PG to their rotation.

Why for Boston: They turn a somewhat redundant (and expensive) Hayward into the defensive anchor at center that they really need. The 2nd round pick compensates them for losing a decent young prospect in Robert Williams.

I like our 8-man rotation after this trade. We can play Brown at PG since we have good playmaking wings around him in Beal and Hayward.

PG Brown/Thomas
SG Beal/Thomas
SF Hayward/Bertans
PF Hachimura/Bertans
C Bryant/Roberts
End of bench: Robinson, McRae, Schofield, Jones, Wagner

It doesn't really hurt our long term plans much. There should be enough luxtax room to carry Hayward's salary next year. We wouldn't be able to add any other free agents, but I don't think they're looking to add anything but 1-year stopgap guys until 2021 anyhow. Next year, Wall comes back and replaces Thomas, with Brown moving to a 6th man role.

The trade can be simplified by leaving Robert Williams, Bonga and the 2nd round pick out of it, but I was trying to get back a competent backup center to eat minutes in Mahinmi's absence.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#227 » by payitforward » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:53 pm

Can't OKC trade that R2 pick for more than the $1.6m they save? Boston sends 2 & takes 4, which is a roster problem for them (not unsolvable...).

I like the trade for us in that it brings us a good prospect. I do see your point that next year isn't a year when we need cap space. But... does this trade not slide us into the tax?

Edit -- my biggest problem with the trade is that I don't see a long-term benefit in the little jolt Hayward gives us. He'll be 30 in March, so obviously we aren't looking to keep him long-term. For that reason, I'm not enthusiastic about your modified version of the trade.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#228 » by Ruzious » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:31 pm

nate33 wrote:While contemplating an Ian Mahinmi for Steven Adams trade that was brought up in the "let's cut Mahinmi thread", I came up with this idea:

Washington trades: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles, Ish Smith, Isaac Bonga
Washington receives: Gordon Hayward, Robert Williams

OKC trades: Steven Adams, 2nd round pick
OKC receives: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles

Boston trades: Gordon Hayward, Robert Williams
Boston receives: Steven Adams, Isaac Bonga, Ish Smith, 2nd round pick

Why for Washington: We turn useless players into the very useful, albeit overpaid Gordon Hayward and a young backup center. Hayward's massive salary only lasts one more year and we're not really doing much with that cap space anyhow. This keeps our 2021 options open.

Why for OKC: They dump the final year of Adam's contract at the cost of a 2nd round pick. They save $1.6M this year Miles will be useful to them as a floor spacer. We could send them Ish instead of Miles and they would save $3.5M and get out of the luxtax completely, but they might balk at adding yet another PG to their rotation.

Why for Boston: They turn a somewhat redundant (and expensive) Hayward into the defensive anchor at center that they really need. The 2nd round pick compensates them for losing a decent young prospect in Robert Williams.

I like our 8-man rotation after this trade. We can play Brown at PG since we have good playmaking wings around him in Beal and Hayward.

PG Brown/Thomas
SG Beal/Thomas
SF Hayward/Bertans
PF Hachimura/Bertans
C Bryant/Roberts
End of bench: Robinson, McRae, Schofield, Jones, Wagner

It doesn't really hurt our long term plans much. There should be enough luxtax room to carry Hayward's salary next year. We wouldn't be able to add any other free agents, but I don't think they're looking to add anything but 1-year stopgap guys until 2021 anyhow. Next year, Wall comes back and replaces Thomas, with Brown moving to a 6th man role.

The trade can be simplified by leaving Robert Williams, Bonga and the 2nd round pick out of it, but I was trying to get back a competent backup center to eat minutes in Mahinmi's absence.

That's a phenominal trade for Boston, meh for Washington, and terrible for OKC. OKC can get value for Adams if they want to trade him.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#229 » by nate33 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:32 pm

payitforward wrote:Can't OKC trade that R2 pick for more than the $1.6m they save? Boston sends 2 & takes 4, which is a roster problem for them (not unsolvable...).

I like the trade for us in that it brings us a good prospect. I do see your point that next year isn't a year when we need cap space. But... does this trade not slide us into the tax?

Edit -- my biggest problem with the trade is that I don't see a long-term benefit in the little jolt Hayward gives us. He'll be 30 in March, so obviously we aren't looking to keep him long-term. For that reason, I'm not enthusiastic about your modified version of the trade.

Don't overlook that they are dumping $27M of Adams' salary in 2020-21. And if they want, they can save $3.5M instead of $1.6M if we ship them Ish (Miles would then go to Boston).

I don't think we slide into the tax with this trade.

I get your point about Hayward being a short term benefit, but I'm wary about too much losing. I don't know how much losing Beal can take. If we made this trade, say, at the middle of the season after starting off with a 13-28 record, and then Wall gets back in March, we could play some strong basketball down the stretch. It doesn't matter if we actually climb into the playoff race this year, but if 25-16 over the second half of the season, we will get is a sense of optimism going into Summer 2020.

It's also worth noting that Hayward wouldn't be displacing any core building blocks in need of development. I'm not too worried if Schofield, Jones and Bonga play less minutes because of this deal. Those guys have upsides as low-minute role players in the first place. What matters is that Hayward doesn't take minutes from Brown, Hachimura and Bryant, and he won't.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#230 » by payitforward » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:39 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Can't OKC trade that R2 pick for more than the $1.6m they save? Boston sends 2 & takes 4, which is a roster problem for them (not unsolvable...).

I like the trade for us in that it brings us a good prospect. I do see your point that next year isn't a year when we need cap space. But... does this trade not slide us into the tax?

Edit -- my biggest problem with the trade is that I don't see a long-term benefit in the little jolt Hayward gives us. He'll be 30 in March, so obviously we aren't looking to keep him long-term. For that reason, I'm not enthusiastic about your modified version of the trade.

Don't overlook that they are dumping $27M of Adams' salary in 2020-21. And if they want, they can save $3.5M instead of $1.6M if we ship them Ish (Miles would then go to Boston).

I don't think we slide into the tax with this trade.

I get your point about Hayward being a short term benefit, but I'm wary about too much losing. I don't know how much losing Beal can take. If we made this trade, say, at the middle of the season after starting off with a 13-28 record, and then Wall gets back in March, we could play some strong basketball down the stretch. It doesn't matter if we actually climb into the playoff race this year, but if 25-16 over the second half of the season, we will get is a sense of optimism going into Summer 2020.

It's also worth noting that Hayward wouldn't be displacing any core building blocks in need of development. I'm not too worried if Schofield, Jones and Bonga play less minutes because of this deal. Those guys have upsides as low-minute role players in the first place. What matters is that Hayward doesn't take minutes from Brown, Hachimura and Bryant, and he won't.

My bad on Adams being signed through next year; I misread my screen.

This, I love: "...if 25-16 over the second half of the season, we will get is a sense of optimism going into Summer 2020."

I'll say :) !! This team hasn't had a 50-win season in many decades! We've had 2 stretches as good as 25-16 in the last 10 years (at least -- maybe longer). Neither of them was based on anything sustainable.

I don't think Hayward is nearly good enough for us to get that result, but leave that aside for a moment. Hayward picks up his option next Summer, & we have $104+m locked into 3 salaries. Bryant, Hachimura & Schofield are also guaranteed. Add Brown, & we are at $122m for 7 players. Presumably, we keep Jones & Robinson. & we make a lottery pick.

Now we are at $130m for 10 players. Lets presume we can fill out the roster & sneak under the tax, which will have gone up from this year obviously. Only... what happened to extending Brad Beal?

Plus, what have we built? Hayward goes away, but we still have $$$ flexibility problems, & now, once again, we are not really a good team. We're not really contending in the East.

IOW, this would be a big roll of the dice motivated (I think -- am I wrong?) by a desire not to be forced to trade Bradley Beal. But, to get this we have to accept a ton of risks, & the gamble only works if all the risks are avoided. Biggest one, obviously, is John Wall. Followed by Hayward himself, even in the short term. Plus "Rui = Really Good" is tacitly assumed. Maybe... but that's hope, & hope is not a strategy.

The overall paradigm is "one tank year, then back to being a good team." My problem with that is simple: I can't think of a similar previous example.

On top of which... I don't think we were "a good team." Since starting 19-7 in 2014 (fueled by the late Rasual Butler's out of body experience), we have been a .500 team. In the East. & that includes our outlier year of 2016-17.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#231 » by nate33 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:07 pm

payitforward wrote:I don't think Hayward is nearly good enough for us to get that result, but leave that aside for a moment. Hayward picks up his option next Summer, & we have $104+m locked into 3 salaries. Bryant, Hachimura & Schofield are also guaranteed. Add Brown, & we are at $122m for 7 players. Presumably, we keep Jones & Robinson. & we make a lottery pick.

Now we are at $130m for 10 players. Lets presume we can fill out the roster & sneak under the tax, which will have gone up from this year obviously. Only... what happened to extending Brad Beal?

Bradley Beal's extension doesn't change any cap calculations until 2021. His 2020 salary is fixed. When Beal's extension kicks in in the 2021-22 season, Hayward comes off the books.

Basically, the only thing that has changed is that we have Hayward instead of Mahinmi/Ish/Miles this season, which is a clear upgrade. And we have Hayward instead of $15M in cap room next year (or in place of $34M in luxtax flexibility, if you prefer to think of it that way). If the assumption is that we aren't going to do much in free agency in the 20-21 season other than sign 1-year stop gaps, then I'd rather just have Hayward.

Finally, there's the not insignificant chance that Hayward regains his old form. It often takes guys 2 years to fully get back from a major leg injury. The Hayward of 2 years ago was a really, really good player. Arguably about as good as Beal.

The only significant opportunity cost of the Hayward acquisition that I see is that it might make it difficult to resign Bertans next summer. Wall, Beal, Hayward, Hachimura, Bryant, Brown, Schofield and our pick will cost $123M. Add 5 minimum salary guys and the payroll rises to about $129M. If the luxtax threshold is roughly $141M, that leaves about $12M for Bertans. We also might want to acquire a backup center better than a vet minimum guy.

I just really like the idea of Beal, Brown and Hayward at the wing positions, with any one of them handling PG duties as necessary. Bryant, Bertans and Hachimura form a floor stretching front court. That's a real good 6 man core. And when Wall gets back, that's a playoff team, maybe even one of the better playoff teams depending on the development of Hachimura. In two years, we say goodbye to Hayward (unless we unload Wall somehow), but by then, Hachimura, Brown and our 2020 pick will hopefully be ready to carry a much bigger load.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#232 » by payitforward » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:12 pm

nate -- you mean Hayward 3 years ago, of course, in 2016-17. That was by far his best year. To give him credit, he came back pretty strong in 2018-19. He posted the 2d highest TS% of his career, though Boston didn't have him shooting near as much as he had in Utah. There was a drop-off in points, but not a big drop off at all in overall effectiveness -- b/c of other things he did. Best year rebounding ever & ditto assists.

As is typical for players whose strongest stat is number of points scored, however, Gordon Hayward was & is over-rated. I know I'll get push back on this, but looking at his numbers for his best year over against Otto Porter's numbers that year, it's pretty obvious that Otto was a significantly better player. If you look at possessions used (via shots, FTAs, & TOs), possessions gained (via rebounds & steals), & points produced, Hayward's 9 extra points per 40 minutes were produced at @ average efficiency for a wing.

But, my point isn't to concentrate on Hayward, or to compare him with Porter either, but to consider how much he'd be likely to improve us -- i.e. subbing him for Porter in a new "big 3." I.e. using the comparison to build a picture of a ceiling -- calling your 25-16 idea into question.

OTOH, if he played 2000 minutes for us next year, & those 2000 minutes were all instead of C.J. Miles -- that's a different matter! He'd be likely to make our record better by a lot. E.g. if we'd win 30 games next year with Miles playing 2000 minutes, maybe we'd win 37-38 games with Hayward taking those minutes. Big difference.

edit: of course it could be 33 wins instead of 25 wins -- an even bigger difference! But... why do we want those extra wins? To make Brad happier to stay? Seems your biggest motivation.

Yet, surely Brad will understand that Hayward isn't staying around. I'm thinking he might actually prefer to see us with significantly higher R1 picks in 2020 & 2021 than to enjoy the temporary benefit of a better record this year & next that threatens to make us weaker the following years. No?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#233 » by nate33 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:59 pm

payitforward wrote:edit: of course it could be 33 wins instead of 25 wins -- an even bigger difference! But... why do we want those extra wins? To make Brad happier to stay? Seems your biggest motivation.

Yet, surely Brad will understand that Hayward isn't staying around. I'm thinking he might actually prefer to see us with significantly higher R1 picks in 2020 & 2021 than to enjoy the temporary benefit of a better record this year & next that threatens to make us weaker the following years. No?


Fair point. It really boils down to Bradley Beal. I think, right now, he is on board with the 1-year tank-and-rebuild strategy. But as Dat2U has pointed out before, it's easy to talk like that in the offseason, but it's pretty damn miserable to be 18-40 in March. How is Bradley Beal going to handle the whole world telling him that the Wizards are a lost cause and that he should demand a trade?

With the new lottery odds, I'm just not very motivated to intentionally suck for picks. I'm not saying we should sacrifice future assets in a pointless effort to get from bad to mediocre, but I'm fine with sacrificing essentially nothing of value to get from bad to mediocre. If all else is equal, I'd still rather win 38 games next year than 28.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#234 » by gambitx777 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:08 am

I would wanna keep bonga in this trade and I would swap him out with mo or Jones the money should still work. Also I think Boston might give up an extra first with that second to sweeten the pot if the wig situation turns sour and they have to move someone.

The idea for me here would be to rehab Gordon's rep and flip him for something this summer or next year to a contender. I had a few trade ideas before involving this concept and this one is the closest to something that could happen.
nate33 wrote:While contemplating an Ian Mahinmi for Steven Adams trade that was brought up in the "let's cut Mahinmi thread", I came up with this idea:

Washington trades: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles, Ish Smith, Isaac Bonga
Washington receives: Gordon Hayward, Robert Williams

OKC trades: Steven Adams, 2nd round pick
OKC receives: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles

Boston trades: Gordon Hayward, Robert Williams
Boston receives: Steven Adams, Isaac Bonga, Ish Smith, 2nd round pick

Why for Washington: We turn useless players into the very useful, albeit overpaid Gordon Hayward and a young backup center. Hayward's massive salary only lasts one more year and we're not really doing much with that cap space anyhow. This keeps our 2021 options open.

Why for OKC: They dump the final year of Adam's contract at the cost of a 2nd round pick. They save $1.6M this year Miles will be useful to them as a floor spacer. We could send them Ish instead of Miles and they would save $3.5M and get out of the luxtax completely, but they might balk at adding yet another PG to their rotation.

Why for Boston: They turn a somewhat redundant (and expensive) Hayward into the defensive anchor at center that they really need. The 2nd round pick compensates them for losing a decent young prospect in Robert Williams.

I like our 8-man rotation after this trade. We can play Brown at PG since we have good playmaking wings around him in Beal and Hayward.

PG Brown/Thomas
SG Beal/Thomas
SF Hayward/Bertans
PF Hachimura/Bertans
C Bryant/Roberts
End of bench: Robinson, McRae, Schofield, Jones, Wagner

It doesn't really hurt our long term plans much. There should be enough luxtax room to carry Hayward's salary next year. We wouldn't be able to add any other free agents, but I don't think they're looking to add anything but 1-year stopgap guys until 2021 anyhow. Next year, Wall comes back and replaces Thomas, with Brown moving to a 6th man role.

The trade can be simplified by leaving Robert Williams, Bonga and the 2nd round pick out of it, but I was trying to get back a competent backup center to eat minutes in Mahinmi's absence.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#235 » by penbeast0 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:29 am

gambitx777 wrote:I would wanna keep bonga in this trade and I would swap him out with mo or Jones the money should still work. Also I think Boston might give up an extra first with that second to sweeten the pot if the wig situation turns sour and they have to move someone.

The idea for me here would be to rehab Gordon's rep and flip him for something this summer or next year to a contender. I had a few trade ideas before involving this concept and this one is the closest to something that could happen.
nate33 wrote:While contemplating an Ian Mahinmi for Steven Adams trade that was brought up in the "let's cut Mahinmi thread", I came up with this idea:

Washington trades: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles, Ish Smith, Isaac Bonga
Washington receives: Gordon Hayward, Robert Williams

OKC trades: Steven Adams, 2nd round pick
OKC receives: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles

Boston trades: Gordon Hayward, Robert Williams
Boston receives: Steven Adams, Isaac Bonga, Ish Smith, 2nd round pick

Why for Washington: We turn useless players into the very useful, albeit overpaid Gordon Hayward and a young backup center. Hayward's massive salary only lasts one more year and we're not really doing much with that cap space anyhow. This keeps our 2021 options open.

Why for OKC: They dump the final year of Adam's contract at the cost of a 2nd round pick. They save $1.6M this year Miles will be useful to them as a floor spacer. We could send them Ish instead of Miles and they would save $3.5M and get out of the luxtax completely, but they might balk at adding yet another PG to their rotation.

Why for Boston: They turn a somewhat redundant (and expensive) Hayward into the defensive anchor at center that they really need. The 2nd round pick compensates them for losing a decent young prospect in Robert Williams.

I like our 8-man rotation after this trade. We can play Brown at PG since we have good playmaking wings around him in Beal and Hayward.

PG Brown/Thomas
SG Beal/Thomas
SF Hayward/Bertans
PF Hachimura/Bertans
C Bryant/RWilliams
End of bench: Robinson, McRae, Schofield, Jones, Wagner

It doesn't really hurt our long term plans much. There should be enough luxtax room to carry Hayward's salary next year. We wouldn't be able to add any other free agents, but I don't think they're looking to add anything but 1-year stopgap guys until 2021 anyhow. Next year, Wall comes back and replaces Thomas, with Brown moving to a 6th man role.

The trade can be simplified by leaving Robert Williams, Bonga and the 2nd round pick out of it, but I was trying to get back a competent backup center to eat minutes in Mahinmi's absence.


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I like Williams and think we are getting a steal and OKC is getting robbed in this deal unless there is literally no other market for Adams. Even the, can't see any reason for OKC not to just cut us out of the deal and keep Boston's bounty for themselves if it's out there.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#236 » by nate33 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:25 pm

penbeast0 wrote:I like Williams and think we are getting a steal and OKC is getting robbed in this deal unless there is literally no other market for Adams. Even the, can't see any reason for OKC not to just cut us out of the deal and keep Boston's bounty for themselves if it's out there.


If you believe Williams has too much value, then what about a simplified version:

Washington trades: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles, Ish Smith,
Washington receives: Gordon Hayward

OKC trades: Steven Adams
OKC receives: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles

Boston trades: Gordon Hayward
Boston receives: Steven Adams, Ish Smith

OKC dumps Adams for expirings. Boston moves Hayward for Adams. The Wizards turn expiring contracts and future flexibility into Hayward. As I said before, OKC can save even more immediate money if Ish goes to OKC and Miles goes to Boston instead, but I was assuming OKC didn't want the extra PG.

Ultimately, I don't think Adams has much value. Dumping him for cap relief seems about right. Good defensive centers with minimal offensive game besides rim running are not worth $27M. Willie Cauley-Stein was just signed for the vet minimum. Looney got $5M a year. Robin Lopez got $5M a year.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#237 » by prime1time » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:17 pm

nate33 wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:I like Williams and think we are getting a steal and OKC is getting robbed in this deal unless there is literally no other market for Adams. Even the, can't see any reason for OKC not to just cut us out of the deal and keep Boston's bounty for themselves if it's out there.


If you believe Williams has too much value, then what about a simplified version:

Washington trades: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles, Ish Smith,
Washington receives: Gordon Hayward

OKC trades: Steven Adams
OKC receives: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles

Boston trades: Gordon Hayward
Boston receives: Steven Adams, Ish Smith

OKC dumps Adams for expirings. Boston moves Hayward for Adams. The Wizards turn expiring contracts and future flexibility into Hayward. As I said before, OKC can save even more immediate money if Ish goes to OKC and Miles goes to Boston instead, but I was assuming OKC didn't want the extra PG.

Ultimately, I don't think Adams has much value. Dumping him for cap relief seems about right. Good defensive centers with minimal offensive game besides rim running are not worth $27M. Willie Cauley-Stein was just signed for the vet minimum. Looney got $5M a year. Robin Lopez got $5M a year.

What position would Hayward play? Hard to imagine us going after him if he and Rui can’t be on the court together.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#238 » by nate33 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:44 pm

prime1time wrote:
nate33 wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:I like Williams and think we are getting a steal and OKC is getting robbed in this deal unless there is literally no other market for Adams. Even the, can't see any reason for OKC not to just cut us out of the deal and keep Boston's bounty for themselves if it's out there.


If you believe Williams has too much value, then what about a simplified version:

Washington trades: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles, Ish Smith,
Washington receives: Gordon Hayward

OKC trades: Steven Adams
OKC receives: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles

Boston trades: Gordon Hayward
Boston receives: Steven Adams, Ish Smith

OKC dumps Adams for expirings. Boston moves Hayward for Adams. The Wizards turn expiring contracts and future flexibility into Hayward. As I said before, OKC can save even more immediate money if Ish goes to OKC and Miles goes to Boston instead, but I was assuming OKC didn't want the extra PG.

Ultimately, I don't think Adams has much value. Dumping him for cap relief seems about right. Good defensive centers with minimal offensive game besides rim running are not worth $27M. Willie Cauley-Stein was just signed for the vet minimum. Looney got $5M a year. Robin Lopez got $5M a year.

What position would Hayward play? Hard to imagine us going after him if he and Rui can’t be on the court together.

Haywood would play SF. Troy Brown would move to PG, or if Isaiah Thomas is close to his old form, Brown would become a 6th man at the 1, 2 or 3.

Hachimura would start the season as the backup forward. If he proves to be NBA ready, he'll displace Bertans in the starting lineup, or he'll displace Brown/Thomas with Beal moving to PG and Hayward at SG.

The rotation and specific position designations don't matter much. The bottom line is that a team with Beal, Hayward, Thomas (assuming decent health), Brown, Bertans and Hachimura can man the 1, 2, 3 and 4 positions for nearly 48 minutes of the game.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#239 » by payitforward » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:50 pm

nate33 wrote:If ...Williams has too much value, then what about a simplified version:

Washington trades: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles, Ish Smith,
Washington receives: Gordon Hayward

OKC trades: Steven Adams
OKC receives: Ian Mahinmi, CJ Miles

Boston trades: Gordon Hayward
Boston receives: Steven Adams, Ish Smith

OKC dumps Adams for expirings. Boston moves Hayward for Adams. The Wizards turn expiring contracts and future flexibility into Hayward. As I said before, OKC can save even more immediate money if Ish goes to OKC and Miles goes to Boston instead, but I was assuming OKC didn't want the extra PG.

Ultimately, I don't think Adams has much value. Dumping him for cap relief seems about right. Good defensive centers with minimal offensive game besides rim running are not worth $27M. Willie Cauley-Stein was just signed for the vet minimum. Looney got $5M a year. Robin Lopez got $5M a year.

I agree that Adams is way overpaid; it's a great point. But, I still don't quite see how this trade works for Boston -- what am I missing?

They move $67m in salary over 2 years. But they take back @$65.5m for the same period. Moreover, Hayward is likely to produce more on-court benefit than Smith/Adams, no?

Plus, they already have Enes Kanter, Williams, Daniel Theis & Tacko Fall on their roster this year.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#240 » by payitforward » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:00 pm

nate33 wrote:
prime1time wrote:What position would Hayward play? Hard to imagine us going after him if he and Rui can’t be on the court together.

Haywood would play SF. Troy Brown would move to PG, or if Isaiah Thomas is close to his old form, Brown would become a 6th man at the 1, 2 or 3.

Hachimura would start the season as the backup forward. If he proves to be NBA ready, he'll displace Bertans in the starting lineup, or he'll displace Brown/Thomas with Beal moving to PG and Hayward at SG.

The rotation and specific position designations don't matter much. The bottom line is that a team with Beal, Hayward, Thomas (assuming decent health), Brown, Bertans and Hachimura can man the 1, 2, 3 and 4 positions for nearly 48 minutes of the game.

Makes perfect sense. It doesn't matter what position(s) Troy Brown plays -- what matters is to get him 2000 minutes or close to it, & that should be no problem.

Assuming Bryant gives us 2500 minutes at Center, we'll need 15-20 minutes a game from someone at the 5. If we have cleared room to pick up Christian Wood, that would work fine for me. OTOH, if we do somehow get Williams in the deal, all the better.

To me the big problem is still Boston's motivation.
Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.

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