One of the weakest Hall of Fame classes ever

[RCM88x]

Bill Laimbeer does not deserve to be in the HoF.

Ben Wallace not making it in this year a bit of a joke.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Moncrief, Bobby Jones and Sikma obviously belong. As others mentioned, Divac belongs once you include international accomplishments.

Laimbeer was rightfully excluded but Ben Wallace needs to get in.

[MaxZaslofskyJr]

No problem with Bobby Jones. He might be the best defender in NBA history.

That seems a tad hyperbolic.

Not really. He's in the conversation for certain.

[LloydFree]

Ben Wallace should've been here.

Bill Laimbeer as well. This omission is low-key one of the biggest scandals in NBA history imo.

The fact that Vlade's in the HOF and Laimbeer and Big Ben are not is a damn travesty.

It's not as big of a travesty as Sharunas Marciulionis being in the HOF over teammate Tim Hardaway. At least Vlade Divac was a good player. Marciulionis was one step above garbage in the NBA.

[NeoWarriors]

Ben Wallace should've been here.

Bill Laimbeer as well. This omission is low-key one of the biggest scandals in NBA history imo.

The fact that Vlade's in the HOF and Laimbeer and Big Ben are not is a damn travesty.

It's not as big of a travesty as Sharunas Marciulionis being in the HOF over teammate Tim Hardaway. At least Vlade Divac was a good player. Marciulionis was one step above garbage in the NBA.

Again. This is the Basketball Hall of Fame not the NBA Hall of Fame. Sarunas has a very big International resume including League MVP of eurobasket. He also won a gold medal at the 88 Olympics with the Soviet team and lead Lithuania to bronze medals in 92 and 96. Not to mention he was the first Soviet Bloc player to play in the NBA... Knocking down all barriers. He 100% belongs in the BASKETBALL Hall of Fame. None of this has any bearing on Tim hardaway's career.

Sent from my Golden State Warriors Protoast Elite toaster using RealGM mobile app

[dhsilv2]

Ben Wallace should've been here.

Bill Laimbeer as well. This omission is low-key one of the biggest scandals in NBA history imo.

The fact that Vlade's in the HOF and Laimbeer and Big Ben are not is a damn travesty.

This is just silly. First off Valde has a case as the better player between him and Bill. He was inducted for his international impact, Bill as far as I know had virtually zero international play. Big Ben didn't get in because the hall likes to hold off on letting people in early, he's going to get in. It was just about making him wait which is silly but part of the process.

[dhsilv2]

No problem with Bobby Jones. He might be the best defender in NBA history.

Under a certain height maybe....

[dhsilv2]

Bill Laimbeer as well. This omission is low-key one of the biggest scandals in NBA history imo.

The fact that Vlade's in the HOF and Laimbeer and Big Ben are not is a damn travesty.

Understand that Vlade is there as an international player. They’ve been very consistent in putting players like Divac in the HoF because it’s not the NBA HOF, it’s the basketball HoF.

While he clearly had an underrated career, I’m not sure I’d put Laimbeer on the top 25 biggest omissions list. I can think of a lot of players I would put in ahead of him including Moncrief and Sikma from this years crop. And while I suspect that Wallace will eventually get in, I don’t ever expect Laimbeer to get in.

You make a fine point about international play, and I get it.

But Laimbeer is a cultural icon, one of the most iconic players in NBA history. He was the baddest of the Bad Boys, one of the greatest teams in NBA history. When I think of that team, the first image that comes to mind is Isiah Thomas with Bill Laimbeer staring at the camera. Arguably the first stretch 5 in NBA history, although I may be forgetting someone. A rebounding giant. 4 time All-Star. 2 time champion. His legacy far outweighs his individual accolades. It's a joke he's not in the Hall to me, and obviously the result of basketball politics.

I have no beef with Moncrief and Sikma getting in the Hall after all those years. But neither one of those guys left the mark that Laimbeer left on the league.

Doesn't Sikma make the point of being another stretch 5 from the same era but a better one?

[dhsilv2]

Ben Wallace should've been here.

Bill Laimbeer as well. This omission is low-key one of the biggest scandals in NBA history imo.

The fact that Vlade's in the HOF and Laimbeer and Big Ben are not is a damn travesty.

NBA has a hatred for Detroit Pistons. They beat Mike, they beat Shaq with Kobe. It's like they cost NBA more money probably the most underrated NBA franchise ever. 3 championships yet they are being treated like they nobodies.

There are 3 hall of famers from the pistons already there. Dumars being a pretty iffy candidate and Rodman isn't exactly a normal hall profile guy either.

[dhsilv2]

For many of these players they should open a hall of good and leave the hall of fame to generational talents.

Bill Laimbeer never once made an all-NBA team in his career... how can he be a HOF’er if he wasn’t even a top 20 player of his generation?

He’s basically Charles Oakley with a couple of championships.

Hell no! He was a far better player. His shooting and spacing for that era was elite. While I'm not going to say he should be in the hall (I don't think he should), he's a tier if not two above Oakley.

[Chanel Bomber]

Understand that Vlade is there as an international player. They’ve been very consistent in putting players like Divac in the HoF because it’s not the NBA HOF, it’s the basketball HoF.

While he clearly had an underrated career, I’m not sure I’d put Laimbeer on the top 25 biggest omissions list. I can think of a lot of players I would put in ahead of him including Moncrief and Sikma from this years crop. And while I suspect that Wallace will eventually get in, I don’t ever expect Laimbeer to get in.

You make a fine point about international play, and I get it.

But Laimbeer is a cultural icon, one of the most iconic players in NBA history. He was the baddest of the Bad Boys, one of the greatest teams in NBA history. When I think of that team, the first image that comes to mind is Isiah Thomas with Bill Laimbeer staring at the camera. Arguably the first stretch 5 in NBA history, although I may be forgetting someone. A rebounding giant. 4 time All-Star. 2 time champion. His legacy far outweighs his individual accolades. It's a joke he's not in the Hall to me, and obviously the result of basketball politics.

I have no beef with Moncrief and Sikma getting in the Hall after all those years. But neither one of those guys left the mark that Laimbeer left on the league.

Doesn't Sikma make the point of being another stretch 5 from the same era but a better one?

Good point, absolutely, but again my argument wasn't against Sikma being in the Hall. My point is Laimbeer should be in the Hall as well. We're talking about an NBA legend.

About your previous post, I'm aware that international play comes into play as well, which I support by the way. But even then, I don't think Vlade's accomplishments on the international scene warrants putting him above Laimbeer as an all-around basketball career/impact. That's just my personal opinion, if you disagree that's perfectly fine.

Again, Bill and Isiah were the core identity, the tone setters, the leaders and the icons of one of the most legendary not to mention one of the best teams in NBA history. If Rodman and Dumars are in, then it's a travesty that Laimbeer isn't. Which means - to me at least - that this omission is about politics rather than pure basketball play.

[HoboBonobo]

To further Laimbeer's case for the HOF, he has also coached the Detroit Shock to 3 WNBA Championships.

2 Time NBA Champ.

3 Time WNBA Champ.

Egregious.

[dhsilv2]

You make a fine point about international play, and I get it.

But Laimbeer is a cultural icon, one of the most iconic players in NBA history. He was the baddest of the Bad Boys, one of the greatest teams in NBA history. When I think of that team, the first image that comes to mind is Isiah Thomas with Bill Laimbeer staring at the camera. Arguably the first stretch 5 in NBA history, although I may be forgetting someone. A rebounding giant. 4 time All-Star. 2 time champion. His legacy far outweighs his individual accolades. It's a joke he's not in the Hall to me, and obviously the result of basketball politics.

I have no beef with Moncrief and Sikma getting in the Hall after all those years. But neither one of those guys left the mark that Laimbeer left on the league.

Doesn't Sikma make the point of being another stretch 5 from the same era but a better one?

Good point, absolutely, but again my argument wasn't against Sikma being in the Hall. My point is Laimbeer should be in the Hall as well. We're talking about an NBA legend.

About your previous post, I'm aware that international play comes into play as well, which I support by the way. But even then, I don't think Vlade's accomplishments on the international scene warrants putting him above Laimbeer as an all-around basketball career/impact. That's just my personal opinion, if you disagree that's perfectly fine.

Again, Bill and Isiah were the core identity, the tone setters, the leaders and the icons of one of the most legendary not to mention one of the best teams in NBA history. If Rodman and Dumars are in, then it's a travesty that Laimbeer isn't. Which means - to me at least - that this omission is about politics rather than pure basketball play.

I'm a pretty big laimbeer guy. During the last top 100 list the forum did, I actually spent a LOT of time on the topic of Sikma, bill and vlade. I even went back and watched an absurd amount of games of each. I've since put in more time on that thought processes.

Vlade to me was of the group the best player and the more time has pasted the more I think he's not just the best but a CLEAR best. His passing skills were on another level than either and his shot blocking was also better. He was good enough where I think MAYBE his nba career is hall worthy.

Sikma is a weird one for me as I actually think Bill was as good or better at his peak and I'd lean pretty heavy on him. That said awards and stats kinda go towards Sikma and pretty clearly in a way.

So while I think all 3 of these guys are close, I can get and with imo a lot of well justified study and effort into why putting Bill last. Personally nba only I think all 3 should be left out as nba standards should be higher, but at the same time Sikma's innovation maybe justifies him in? He was more unique given his career started in the 70's.

But yeah we can disagree, all good. These are 3 guys I consider top 125 all time players. How many should be in the hall?

[dhsilv2]

To further Laimbeer's case for the HOF, he has also coached the Detroit Shock to 3 WNBA Championships.

2 Time NBA Champ.

3 Time WNBA Champ.

Egregious.

You get in as a player or a coach or whatever else. They are generally separated.

[dautjazz]

Moncrief, Sikma, and Jones are way ovedue.

Moncrief = DPOY in 83 and 84, 5x All-Star, 4x All-Defensive first team, All-NBA first team in 1983, 4x All-NBA second team
Jones = 10x All-Defensive first team, 4x All-Star, 6th man of the year in '83 as a member of one of the GOAT teams
Sikma = 7x All-Star, All-Defensive second team 1982

I would say Moncrief is easily deserving over Wallace, and you can make a case for Jones and Sikma. There are many players in the past who are FAR less deserving that have made the club.

[Samurai]

I realize that this is expected at this time, but this is just ridiculous. There are many good players on this list, but I feel as though they are trolling us at this point. And yes, I realize that this is the "Basketball" Hall of Fame and not exclusive to the NBA, but still.

Inductees:
Al Attles, Carl Braun, Charles Cooper, Vlade Divac, Bobby Jones, Sidney Moncrief, Jack Sikma, Teresa Weatherspoon, Bill Fitch, and Paul Westphal.

I don't want to go through the entire history of each of those guys, but feel free to randomly choose one to google, and tell me why I'm wrong. I can definitely see a case for a couple of them, but really this is the entire class.

Also, is there a rule that they have to induct a certain number of people every year? Why can't it be like baseball, and some years just a couple people get in?

Unless you go through each one, I'm not sure what makes this "ridiculous". There can always be one or two that we might say "I wouldn't have voted for him/her, but I can see why others would". To be "ridiculous", there has to be a large number that no compelling reason can be made, irregardless of whether you agree with it or not.

Attles was selected as a contributor, not as a player. He has spent 60 years with the Warriors as a player, a coach that won an improbable championship and remains the longest-serving coach in team history, and then a variety of front office positions. If 60 years of service is "ridiculous", what is your criteria to be a worthy contributor?

Bobby Jones is one of the greatest defensive players I have ever seen, and he has 10(!) All-Defensive first team selections and one second team selection. How many All-Defensive team selections would a player need to not be considered "ridiculous"?

Cooper was selected for his historical significance s the first African-American player to be drafted by an NBA team. Most inductees have one or two presenters who had a connection to the inductee. Cooper, who died in 1984, stirred enough respect from other legends across multiple eras that he may have had the most impressive group of presenters of anyone in Hall of Fame history: he had 10 Hall of Famers as presenters including Bill Russell, Kareem, Larry Bird, Dr. J, Tommy Heinsohn, Elgin Baylor, Nique, Isiah Thomas and Ray Allen among them. How many legends would an inductee need to have garnered such respect to not be "ridiculous"?

Moncrief and Westphal were selected more for their peak/prime value than their longevity. Westphal was a 5-time All Star, 3-time All NBA First Team member with one second team selection. Moncrief was also a 5-time All Star with one All NBA First team selection, 4 second team selections, 4 All-Defensive First team picks and one second team selection. Your own criteria may demand more All NBA selections than that, but those selections are not "ridiculous".

I always thought Sikma was very under-rated since his career overlapped with other HOF centers such as Kareem, Moses, Gilmore, Parish, Lanier, Hakeem, etc. With those guys as your competition, getting an All NBA selection is pretty tough. Nevertheless, he was a 7-time All Star. My own observation was that he was born 40 years too early; if he were playing today he would be highly valued as a stretch-5 who was also an outstanding rebounder on the defensive glass.

I don't know enough about 50's basketball, international play or the WNBA but I have not seen anything that would indicate that Braun, Divac or Weatherspoon were considered "ridiculous" choices within their specific contexts.

[lonzo_pelota]

whats the reason Chris Webber isnt in the HOF? his stats dwarf Vlade's

[Duke4life831]

Im over complaining about the HOF. Honestly I dont think any of these people mentioned should be HOF worthy. But the basketball HOF is what it is. Cant wait for the future classes of guys like Horford, Aldridge, Love, Lowry, Butler, Iggy and Green!!!

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

No problem with Bobby Jones. He might be the best defender in NBA history.

Bobby Jones is only a borderline Hall of Famer to me before I figure in his minutes per game. My understanding is that he had a medical condition that was limiting his minutes per game. He only played 30 minutes per game 3 years. He never played 35 minutes per game.

I suppose he is better than Satch Sanders but Sanders was very good and Sanders had something like 9 rings. Also I thought the standards for getting into the Hall were increasing to the point were Bobby Jones doesn't qualify.

Bobby Jones was rediculously athletic for a 6' 9" white guy. I hope being white did not help Bobby Jones get in the Hall of fame. Bobby Jones reminded of Kirilenko. Kirilenko was even more athletic than Jones and had better court vision than Jones but Jones played smarter basketball and had a good mid range jump shot.

I prefer Draymond Green to Bobby Jones as a defender but Jones was taller and could jump higher.

I am OK with Jones being in the Hall of Fame but I think I would prefer that he not be in the Hall of fame.

[dhsilv2]

whats the reason Chris Webber isnt in the HOF? his stats dwarf Vlade's

Almost identical VORP, Vlade has a better WS. Webber committed crimes in college...Vlade is an all time great international player. So your statement is both false and misleading.