One of the weakest Hall of Fame classes ever

[Rich Michmond]

whats the reason Chris Webber isnt in the HOF? his stats dwarf Vlade's

The Ed Martin scandal and the fact that his stellar college career was virtually voided.

[lonzo_pelota]

whats the reason Chris Webber isnt in the HOF? his stats dwarf Vlade's

Almost identical VORP, Vlade has a better WS. Webber committed crimes in college...Vlade is an all time great international player. So your statement is both false and misleading.

compare career avg in points and rebounds etc, Vorp is subjective and if its the NBA HOF what does his college crimes have to do with it. this isnt like barry bonds and his steroid use is it?

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Jack Sikma was a massive innovator of big men play, he’s a very worthy HOFer

What did Sikma innovate?

There was a long line of jump shooting big men before him.
He was good at boxing out but that was not new. He was strong but strength was not new.
He was a good passer but not as good as many other centers before him.

His defense was not special.

Maybe there should be one guy in the Hall for each championship team but Dennis Johnson is already in the Hall.
Is Gus Williams in the Hall of Fame? Freddy Brown, Paul Silas, Lonnie Shelton and John Johnson were important so it isn't as if Sikma carried those Sonics to a championship.

I don't think Sikma belongs in the Hall of fame.

[Rich Michmond]

whats the reason Chris Webber isnt in the HOF? his stats dwarf Vlade's

Almost identical VORP, Vlade has a better WS. Webber committed crimes in college...Vlade is an all time great international player. So your statement is both false and misleading.

compare career avg in points and rebounds etc, Vorp is subjective and if its the NBA HOF what does his college crimes have to do with it. this isnt like barry bonds and his steroid use is it?

It's the basketball hall of fame, not strictly NBA only Hall of Fame. Players like Ralph Sampson would have zero business being neat the hall if it wasn't for their college careers. (Not that I think Sampson even WITH his college awards is a paricularly deserving candidate...)

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Ben Wallace should've been here.

Bill Laimbeer as well. This omission is low-key one of the biggest scandals in NBA history imo.

The fact that Vlade's in the HOF and Laimbeer and Big Ben are not is a damn travesty.

I think Ben Wallace should eventually get in the Hall of Fame but it isn't a travesty for Ben to not to be there. I was of the opinion that the Hall of Fame standards had increased until I saw this year's hall of Fame inductees.

Vlade was put in for reasons beyond his NBA career. Vlade was as good or better than Laimbeer as a basketball player but Laimbeer's thuggishness was part of how the Bad Boy Pistons won with thuggishness. I don't feel like honoring thuggishness. Laimbeer has rings but when I judge people like Karl Malone I am always in the rings don't matter camp. Laimbeer was not a good enough basketball player to get into the Hall of Fame if rings don't matter.

[000078ude54]

Not a fan of some HOF inductees being based on their "impact" or "contributions" to the game.

Vlade Divac averaged 12 points and 8 boards in his career. Come on. And that international stuff doesn't mean jack.

May as well put Robert Horry in since he has 7 rings. Or Spud Webb for being 5'7'' and winning the dunk contest.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I realize that this is expected at this time, but this is just ridiculous. There are many good players on this list, but I feel as though they are trolling us at this point. And yes, I realize that this is the "Basketball" Hall of Fame and not exclusive to the NBA, but still.

Inductees:
Al Attles, Carl Braun, Charles Cooper, Vlade Divac, Bobby Jones, Sidney Moncrief, Jack Sikma, Teresa Weatherspoon, Bill Fitch, and Paul Westphal.

I don't want to go through the entire history of each of those guys, but feel free to randomly choose one to google, and tell me why I'm wrong. I can definitely see a case for a couple of them, but really this is the entire class.

Also, is there a rule that they have to induct a certain number of people every year? Why can't it be like baseball, and some years just a couple people get in?

You are right, this group is weak.
Do coaches with a championship automatically get in?
Attles was not that great of a player. He did win a championship as a coach.
Fitch did a good job with the Cavs Celtics and Rockets. I don't know that he was a great coach. He was the coach of my home town Celtics but I don't know about his greatness.

Chuck Cooper belongs for non basketball reasons. Whetherspoon may belong; I don't know enough about women's basketball. Valde may belong for historic reasons in European basketball.

Moncrief just plain belongs in the Hall.

I don't think Sikma and Bobby Jones belong. Not enough guys get in for defense so maybe put Jones in but his minutes per game bother me.

Westphal was good but I thought the standards had increased and now great was required. I could probably find a few guards that I think belong in the Hall of Fame more that Westphal. I think Tim Hardaway was a more valuable player than Westphal.

Carl Braun was not a good enough player in his own weak era to deserve to be in. There must be more to this story.
Carl Braun was David Stern's boyhood hero. I think that is why he is going into the Hall.

Braun was the best player on bad Knick teams. New York is the dominant city in the USA.
Brayan was a great shooter for his era but the best he ever shot was 42%.

Braun apparently is the inventor of the word "swish"

[INKtastic]

No problem with Bobby Jones. He might be the best defender in NBA history.

Bobby Jones is only a borderline Hall of Famer to me before I figure in his minutes per game. My understanding is that he had a medical condition that was limiting his minutes per game. He only played 30 minutes per game 3 years. He never played 35 minutes per game.

I suppose he is better than Satch Sanders but Sanders was very good and Sanders had something like 9 rings. Also I thought the standards for getting into the Hall were increasing to the point were Bobby Jones doesn't qualify.

Bobby Jones was rediculously athletic for a 6' 9" white guy. I hope being white did not help Bobby Jones get in the Hall of fame. Bobby Jones reminded of Kirilenko. Kirilenko was even more athletic than Jones and had better court vision than Jones but Jones played smarter basketball and had a good mid range jump shot.

I prefer Draymond Green to Bobby Jones as a defender but Jones was taller and could jump higher.

I am OK with Jones being in the Hall of Fame but I think I would prefer that he not be in the Hall of fame.

Asthma, epileptic seizures and a chronic heart disorder. Medication limited his minutes.

10x first team all defense, 1x second team all defense, 5x all star, 6th man of the year, top 50 all time in career VORP, BPM, DBPM, Win Share/48, TS%, FG%, Blocks. I always really enjoyed watching play.

[The_Hater]

Ben Wallace should've been here.

Bill Laimbeer as well. This omission is low-key one of the biggest scandals in NBA history imo.

The fact that Vlade's in the HOF and Laimbeer and Big Ben are not is a damn travesty.

It's not as big of a travesty as Sharunas Marciulionis being in the HOF over teammate Tim Hardaway. At least Vlade Divac was a good player. Marciulionis was one step above garbage in the NBA.

Marciulionis was actually a very good NBA player before injuries took over. Not even close to ‘garbage’.

[The_Hater]

Bill Laimbeer as well. This omission is low-key one of the biggest scandals in NBA history imo.

The fact that Vlade's in the HOF and Laimbeer and Big Ben are not is a damn travesty.

NBA has a hatred for Detroit Pistons. They beat Mike, they beat Shaq with Kobe. It's like they cost NBA more money probably the most underrated NBA franchise ever. 3 championships yet they are being treated like they nobodies.

There are 3 hall of famers from the pistons already there. Dumars being a pretty iffy candidate and Rodman isn't exactly a normal hall profile guy either.

Adrian Dantley could also be included from some of those teams.

[Capn'O]

Better than Shaq, say some...

[Lalouie]

I realize that this is expected at this time, but this is just ridiculous. There are many good players on this list, but I feel as though they are trolling us at this point. And yes, I realize that this is the "Basketball" Hall of Fame and not exclusive to the NBA, but still.

Inductees:
Al Attles, Carl Braun, Charles Cooper, Vlade Divac, Bobby Jones, Sidney Moncrief, Jack Sikma, Teresa Weatherspoon, Bill Fitch, and Paul Westphal.

I don't want to go through the entire history of each of those guys, but feel free to randomly choose one to google, and tell me why I'm wrong. I can definitely see a case for a couple of them, but really this is the entire class.

Also, is there a rule that they have to induct a certain number of people every year? Why can't it be like baseball, and some years just a couple people get in?

that's what happens when you lower the bar.

question. is there a quota for inductees???

[Samurai]

I realize that this is expected at this time, but this is just ridiculous. There are many good players on this list, but I feel as though they are trolling us at this point. And yes, I realize that this is the "Basketball" Hall of Fame and not exclusive to the NBA, but still.

Inductees:
Al Attles, Carl Braun, Charles Cooper, Vlade Divac, Bobby Jones, Sidney Moncrief, Jack Sikma, Teresa Weatherspoon, Bill Fitch, and Paul Westphal.

I don't want to go through the entire history of each of those guys, but feel free to randomly choose one to google, and tell me why I'm wrong. I can definitely see a case for a couple of them, but really this is the entire class.

Also, is there a rule that they have to induct a certain number of people every year? Why can't it be like baseball, and some years just a couple people get in?

that's what happens when you lower the bar.

question. is there a quota for inductees???

The process, as I understand it:

There are 4 screening committees: North American Screening Committee (9 members), Women's Screening Committee (7 members), International Screening Committee (7 members), and a Veterans Screening Committee (7 members). A "veteran" is defined as someone whose career has ended at least 35 years ago. Individuals who receive at least 7 votes from the North American committee or at least 5 from the other committees, are then advanced to an Honors Committee (12 members plus rotating groups of 12 specialists - one group for females, one group for international, one group for veterans, and one group for Americans). The maximum number of candidates (or "quota" as you worded it) that can be passed to the Honors Committee are 10 from the North American screening committee and 2 from each of the other screening committees. Any individual receiving at least 75% of the votes from the Honors Committee are then approved for induction.

In terms of a "quota", as long as the number of candidates receiving sufficient votes from the screening committee does not exceed the maximum number of candidates that said committee is allowed to submit, those names get submitted directly to the Honors Committee for consideration, although the rules permit the Hall's Board of Trustees to remove any name from consideration if they have "damaged the integrity of the game of basketball."

Hope that helps!

[Samurai]

Forgot to add: there are 2 committees that are not screening committees. There is a contributor direct election committee and an early-African American pioneers committee. Since they are not screening committees, these two committees can each pick one person who is directly approved for induction; they do not need to go to the Honors Committee for voting.

[teeozz]

Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups will make the HOF together

[dhsilv2]

whats the reason Chris Webber isnt in the HOF? his stats dwarf Vlade's

Almost identical VORP, Vlade has a better WS. Webber committed crimes in college...Vlade is an all time great international player. So your statement is both false and misleading.

compare career avg in points and rebounds etc, Vorp is subjective and if its the NBA HOF what does his college crimes have to do with it. this isnt like barry bonds and his steroid use is it?

Well VORP and WS are useful career metrics. Per game stats...I can't recall anyone this decade still using those, especially for a career. That seems almost insane to discuss in 2019.

Webber's college career was vacated so it was far worse than Bonds.

[Samurai]

Not a fan of some HOF inductees being based on their "impact" or "contributions" to the game.

Vlade Divac averaged 12 points and 8 boards in his career. Come on. And that international stuff doesn't mean jack.

May as well put Robert Horry in since he has 7 rings. Or Spud Webb for being 5'7'' and winning the dunk contest.

What does this mean? Divac was selected by the International committee, not the North American committee. Besides "international stuff", what in the world is the International Screening Committee supposed to consider for their selections? This is like saying that the Women's Screening Committee should not consider "stuff they did in Women's leagues" or the North American Screening Committee should not consider that "NBA stuff". I'm not sure you are familiar with how the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (remember there is no such thing as an NBA Hall of Fame) selection process works; refer to post #53 if you need a refresher.

[000078ude54]

Not a fan of some HOF inductees being based on their "impact" or "contributions" to the game.

Vlade Divac averaged 12 points and 8 boards in his career. Come on. And that international stuff doesn't mean jack.

May as well put Robert Horry in since he has 7 rings. Or Spud Webb for being 5'7'' and winning the dunk contest.

What does this mean? Divac was selected by the International committee, not the North American committee. Besides "international stuff", what in the world is the International Screening Committee supposed to consider for their selections? This is like saying that the Women's Screening Committee should not consider "stuff they did in Women's leagues" or the North American Screening Committee should not consider that "NBA stuff". I'm not sure you are familiar with how the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (remember there is no such thing as an NBA Hall of Fame) selection process works; refer to post #53 if you need a refresher.

I know who "selected" him. He still doesn't belong in the Naismith.

The HOF needs to tighten things up. Can't have Jordan, Magic, Bird, Jabbar, Russell, etc and then add players like Divac. If a player produces 12 points and 8 rebounds per game average in the NBA - which let's be honest is the gold standard league for defining greatness - and can still get in the HOF based on shlepping up and down the court in some inferior league overseas, then the HOF doesn't mean ****. This is what countless fans have been saying the last 10-15 years of these crap inductees getting in.

[Samurai]

Not a fan of some HOF inductees being based on their "impact" or "contributions" to the game.

Vlade Divac averaged 12 points and 8 boards in his career. Come on. And that international stuff doesn't mean jack.

May as well put Robert Horry in since he has 7 rings. Or Spud Webb for being 5'7'' and winning the dunk contest.

What does this mean? Divac was selected by the International committee, not the North American committee. Besides "international stuff", what in the world is the International Screening Committee supposed to consider for their selections? This is like saying that the Women's Screening Committee should not consider "stuff they did in Women's leagues" or the North American Screening Committee should not consider that "NBA stuff". I'm not sure you are familiar with how the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (remember there is no such thing as an NBA Hall of Fame) selection process works; refer to post #53 if you need a refresher.

I know who "selected" him. He still doesn't belong in the Naismith.

The HOF needs to tighten things up. Can't have Jordan, Magic, Bird, Jabbar, Russell, etc and then add players like Divac. If a player produces 12 points and 8 rebounds per game average in the NBA - which let's be honest is the gold standard league for defining greatness - and can still get in the HOF based on shlepping up and down the court in some inferior league overseas, then the HOF doesn't mean ****. This is what countless fans have been saying the last 10-15 years of these crap inductees getting in.

So if you "know" that the International committee selected him, and that Divac is widely recognized as one of the greatest, if not the greatest, international player, why wouldn't the greatest player within the purview of his committee belong in the Hall? Wouldn't you expect that each committee select the greatest players? If the greatest players don't belong in the Hall, who does?

[clyde21]

HoF is pretty close to meaning nothing at this point