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One last move...? What would it be?

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payitforward
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One last move...? What would it be? 

Post#1 » by payitforward » Sun Sep 8, 2019 8:35 pm

The hours, days & weeks plod forward like swimming through quicksand until training camp begins.

Rui had a bad game, & everyone is going in for grief therapy.

Even the comic relief topics ("bingle bangle bongle I don't want to cut Bonga") fall flat. Even comparing Jemerrio Jones to Ben Wallace doesn't rouse any action.

Gotta be something.... Oh, I know!

How about one more move? Might we not conceivably make one last, one final, one ultimate pre-TC piece of news? A tweak if not a shock? Anything...?

What would it be? What would you do?

Trade...
Wagner for Mozart & Chuck Berry?
Wall for a high ceiling prospect?
Troy Brown & Aaron White for Danny Green, Vander Blue & Tariq Black?
Troy Brown for Bruce Brown & Sterling Brown?
Ish Smith for Jemerrio Jones? No that doesn't work....

...anything! No matter how off the wall. Even a good idea would be acceptable.
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Re: One last move...? What would it be? 

Post#2 » by nate33 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 9:41 pm

We need a real backup center. Getting Christian Wood if Detroit cuts him would be ideal. Sign him and cut Wagner. Or maybe sign Faried and cut Wagner.

Another option would be to trade Bonga for an equivalent young talent on a rookie scale contract who happens to play PF/C. I figure Bonga is the only guy on the roster who might actually have positive trade value while also being somewhat expendable from our perspective.

I'd love to trade Bonga for Vonleh, but that can't happen until Dec. 15th.
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Re: One last move...? What would it be? 

Post#3 » by closg00 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 10:37 pm

nate33 wrote:We need a real backup center. Getting Christian Wood if Detroit cuts him would be ideal. Sign him and cut Wagner. Or maybe sign Faried and cut Wagner.

Another option would be to trade Bonga for an equivalent young talent on a rookie scale contract who happens to play PF/C. I figure Bonga is the only guy on the roster who might actually have positive trade value while also being somewhat expendable from our perspective.

I'd love to trade Bonga for Vonleh, but that can't happen until Dec. 15th.


I was going to say, I hope that the team has "draft board" of the best fringe guys who may be cut, and we get another Bryant-type steal, it appears that we're going to roll with Bryan/Mahinmi/Wagner @ C for the tank-year.
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Re: One last move...? What would it be? 

Post#4 » by Illmatic12 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 1:15 am

We don’t have enough playable size (Mahinmi and Wagner imo are below the threshold of playable)

Faried would make a lot of sense, or even someone like Joakim Noah. I wouldn’t necessarily make the move now but it could be a necessity if injuries hit.

Maybe Ian surprises us and is playable , but as of now I can’t expect that to be the case.
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Re: One last move...? What would it be? 

Post#5 » by penbeast0 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 2:30 am

Don't want veteran and playable in a tank type year. Want young and might develop into something but probably going to lose us some games now (before Wall returns).
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Re: One last move...? What would it be? 

Post#6 » by Illmatic12 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 5:39 am

penbeast0 wrote:Don't want veteran and playable in a tank type year. Want young and might develop into something but probably going to lose us some games now (before Wall returns).

It’s important to note that development is different at the frontcourt position. Young big men are often too physically underdeveloped for certain matchups or have a tendency to foul out , sometimes playing them more can hurt their progress.

The solution is rostering a tough veteran big to be deployed situationally , someone who won’t mind if their minutes fluctuate throughout the season.
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Re: One last move...? What would it be? 

Post#7 » by Ruzious » Mon Sep 9, 2019 12:14 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:Don't want veteran and playable in a tank type year. Want young and might develop into something but probably going to lose us some games now (before Wall returns).

It’s important to note that development is different at the frontcourt position. Young big men are often too physically underdeveloped for certain matchups or have a tendency to foul out , sometimes playing them more can hurt their progress.

The solution is rostering a tough veteran big to be deployed situationally , someone who won’t mind if their minutes fluctuate throughout the season.

I'd still prefer a young big to develop (like Wood) over a veteran who probably doesn't fit in any future plans. I figure if you need a veteran presence, hire a coach for that - someone who's recently retired. But I do think it's crazy that no team seems to want Faried.

Btw, I like that word rostering.
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Re: One last move...? What would it be? 

Post#8 » by Illmatic12 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 7:44 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:Don't want veteran and playable in a tank type year. Want young and might develop into something but probably going to lose us some games now (before Wall returns).

It’s important to note that development is different at the frontcourt position. Young big men are often too physically underdeveloped for certain matchups or have a tendency to foul out , sometimes playing them more can hurt their progress.

The solution is rostering a tough veteran big to be deployed situationally , someone who won’t mind if their minutes fluctuate throughout the season.

I'd still prefer a young big to develop (like Wood) over a veteran who probably doesn't fit in any future plans. I figure if you need a veteran presence, hire a coach for that - someone who's recently retired. But I do think it's crazy that no team seems to want Faried.

Btw, I like that word rostering.

The way I see it, there’s a high chance that Mo Wagner isn’t playable this season or needs time in the G-League. Afaic he needs to add 10-15lbs of muscle to play in the NBA, that needs to happen off the court on his own time. There’s no point sending him out there to “develop” when all he’s gonna do is get bullied and probably foul out. It doesn’t help his development and would likely set him back imo.


If I’m correct about Wagner , then wait a few weeks into the season and they’ll suddenly realize there’s a desperate need for a proven reserve big who can soak up minutes..

Problem is that guys like Wood ie young bigs who are proven to be playable, are usually signed already. Players like Noah, Faried will likely be what’s available to us
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Re: One last move...? What would it be? 

Post#9 » by payitforward » Mon Sep 9, 2019 9:21 pm

I wish I thought there was any chance, any situation, in which they'd cut Wagner, as I just cannot see him developing into even a marginally productive NBA journeyman (tho, of course, I could be wrong). But, I don't think Tommy will do that. Even more I wish we could deal him for a R2 pick. Even less likely.

I disagree with nate about trading Bonga -- though I recognize that I am probably at least half-way irrational in my preference for young players, guys for the future.

Yet, despite that bias, I'd love to sign Faried -- a guy who has been on this Board's radar since forever. It'd be fun to see him in a Wizards uni at last.

But... as it is, we have to let one guy go. It'll take something out of left field to change our roster any other way.
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Re: One last move...? What would it be? 

Post#10 » by Illmatic12 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:25 am

Sheppard made it known that he felt Wagner was the jewel of the Lakers trade and in 2018 they considered drafting him at #15 (which so far, is not looking great for his player evaluation skills) .. so no, I can’t see any way they cut him without at least a season in-house.


Jimmy Patsos was on the Wizards Talk podcast and he said the talk about Mo Wagner , among league coaching/scouting circles, is that he lacks competitiveness. Didn’t sound very high on his NBA prospects at all which unfortunately corroborates my eye test as well. Great kid, great personality but in SL he looked like a 7’ tall wet noodle who has never touched a basketball.

The Lakers notoriously had a pretty scant and understaffed player development department, so maybe they are hoping that Wagner blossoms here with better development similar to Thomas Bryant. But it’s on Mo to put in the work and toughen up.
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Re: One last move...? What would it be? 

Post#11 » by payitforward » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:26 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:Sheppard made it known that he felt Wagner was the jewel of the Lakers trade and in 2018 they considered drafting him at #15 (which so far, is not looking great for his player evaluation skills) .. so no, I can’t see any way they cut him without at least a season in-house.

Agreed. & in truth I've been worried about his player evaluation skills too. We don't know what his input was under Ernie, but you'll never convince me that Grunfeld did any evaluation of college prospects, & our draft record the last 15 years has been horrendous.

Just this year, I thought picking Rui was a real mistake. & targeting Admiral Schofield made not the slightest sense to me. The other side of the ledger is his insistence on picking up Thomas Bryant & the fact that at least he has a focus on younger players.

We'll see how it works out. The new hires & expanded analytics staff may help us, especially since Tommy does seem to be an active & collaborative leader.

Illmatic12 wrote:...the talk about Mo Wagner , among league coaching/scouting circles, is that he lacks competitiveness. ...maybe they are hoping that Wagner blossoms here with better development similar to Thomas Bryant. But it’s on Mo to put in the work and toughen up.

Thomas Bryant & Mo Wagner both entered college in the Fall of 2015. Coming in Bryant was the #25 prospect on the RSCI ranking. Wagner was #97.

Thomas Bryant was significantly more productive as a Freshman at Indiana than Mo was two years later as a Junior at Michigan.

Nothing is going to turn Moritz Wagner into Thomas Bryant.
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