Clippers Might Relocate... To Inglewood (UPDATE: And A New Logo To Go With It)

[Ranma]

I suspect the proposed "People Mover" tram in Inglewood is likely on hold until the Clippers' arena project is finalized and legally cleared to begin construction. If it does indeed come to fruition, it should help ease some of the concerns over increased congestion. I also imagine that it will be very similar to the one already in use in the city of San Francisco.

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Bianca Barragan, Curbed Los Angeles (7/18/18)

A rendering of the proposed people mover. | Images via city of Inglewood

The route of the proposed tram: It would travel between the Crenshaw Line’s Market Street stop and Century Boulevard, passing the Forum and the NFL stadium—the future home of the Rams and Chargers—on the way.

The elevated tram would ferry passengers to the NFL stadium.

Inglewood Working on Tram to Link Crenshaw Line, NFL Stadium

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[WC NBA Fan]

I actually started a thread a few months ago titled "envisioninglewood.org" or something like that. That's the website that details the future of Inglewood and the tram, which is called the "Inglewood transit connector". They should be finishing up the EIR for it this summer. Here is the website specific to the tram.

http://envisioninglewood.org/transportation-solutions/inglewood-transit-connector/

[WC NBA Fan]

Here is the original thread that I started

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1841691

I'm not sure about a San Francisco tram. They have BART as well as MUNI light rail that runs in the city but no aerial tram.

What I did compare the Inglewood transit connector to was the BART people mover that connects the BART Coliseum stop to the Oakland airport. I used it for timeline purposes. The BART connector tram is over a mile longer than the Inglewood proposed tram and only took 3 years to build so the 2023 proposed opening of the Inglewood tram shouldn't be too much of a problem.

What the tweeter on the newballpark handle was talking about was a gondola going down Broadway in downtown Oakland to the site of the proposed new A's stadium at Howard Terminal. Ironically, the A's and Clipper's both benefit by the new bill that is meant to expedite construction on both projects.

[WC NBA Fan]

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[WC NBA Fan]

The above tweet from Mayor Butts is pretty much what I've assumed all along. The FAA has already ruled that affordable housing doesn't comply with the land acquisition noise program that is funded by the FAA but rather that the arena DOES. Therefore, wouldn't the September 20th hearing just be a waste of everyone's time?

We also found out last week in the Vanity Fair article that Dolan has nothing in writing so his lawsuit is a sham as well.

[Quake Griffin]

I suspect the proposed "People Mover" tram in Inglewood is likely on hold until the Clippers' arena project is finalized and legally cleared to begin construction. If it does indeed come to fruition, it should help ease some of the concerns over increased congestion. I also imagine that it will be very similar to the one already in use in the city of San Francisco.

Read on Twitter

Bianca Barragan, Curbed Los Angeles (7/18/18)

A rendering of the proposed people mover. | Images via city of Inglewood

The route of the proposed tram: It would travel between the Crenshaw Line’s Market Street stop and Century Boulevard, passing the Forum and the NFL stadium—the future home of the Rams and Chargers—on the way.

The elevated tram would ferry passengers to the NFL stadium.

Inglewood Working on Tram to Link Crenshaw Line, NFL Stadium

Watch on YouTube

Gotta look our best for 2028.

[WC NBA Fan]

Here is an article that mentions a 2023 opening for the Inglewood transit connector

http://ourweekly.com/news/2018/aug/09/inglewood-plans-transportation-upgrades-connect-up/

[Ranma]

The Vanity Fair article touches on what I've suspected all along. Dolan doesn't have anything in writing and he knows it. So his best option is to just delay it as much as possible to get as many events in his building while he has exclusivity. I'll give him that. I still think that the Clippers could have the Inglewood arena up by 2023 or even 2022 if they greased the right palms or if the Judge acts swiftly in Ballmer's favor. It would then just be a matter of AEG & Ballmer coming up with a buyout agreement that works for both sides before breaking ground.

Lastly, I didn't know that the Clippers were supposed to be the 2nd tenant although I'm not really surprised. Dr. Buss often talked of wanting to stay in Inglewood while the Clippers would merely be moving a few blocks up the street from the Sports Arena to Staples.

I have to say that I'm somewhat suspicious of those sources though. I've always felt that the Clippers to Anaheim was a done deal in '96 but got thwarted when the Staples project started coming to fruition. My thinking was that it was supposed to be for the Kings & Lakers then AEG talked Sterling into being a 3rd tenant. I could be wrong but knowing how much Sterling loved LA, I couldn't see him flirting with Anaheim had he known he could've been #2 at Staples ahead of the Lakers or with no Lakers at all.

Than again, knowing Sterling, Anaheim just could've been the ultimate negotiating ploy to get a better deal at Staples all along...

The above tweet from Mayor Butts is pretty much what I've assumed all along. The FAA has already ruled that affordable housing doesn't comply with the land acquisition noise program that is funded by the FAA but rather that the arena DOES. Therefore, wouldn't the September 20th hearing just be a waste of everyone's time?

We also found out last week in the Vanity Fair article that Dolan has nothing in writing so his lawsuit is a sham as well.

I've been meaning to address your posts, but didn't have the time until now. First, thank you, WC NBA Fan, for your contributions in updating us on the Inglewood-arena project including the ENVISION aspect of it. As you can see, information seems to be harder to find than you would think for such a big undertaking, but given the legal proceedings between two power players and the apparent corrupt nature of a lot of the dealings, I guess I can see why there are few solid details available to the public. At least ESPN's Brian Windhorst finds the situation fascinating in recently stating that he would like to dedicate a year in investigating the dealings, but given the lack of public interest, called it career suicide for him to do so. Hopefully, Windhorst will provide more info as he comes across it.

In any case, I've been following the Clippers' arena situation since I was in high school but that was before the advent of the Internet and my fact-finding was limited to whatever was available in the sports pages of the Orange County Register and maybe the Los Angeles Times. Plus, my recollection of events seems off as I thought former UCLA and NFL left tackle Jonathan Ogden was involved through his Ogden Foundation but the city of Anaheim and--until recently--the Ogden Corp. were handling the business of managing the Pond arena.

Given that, here is my account of how things have played out. As a resident of Orange County and Clippers fan for most of my life, I also initially thought that the Clippers to Anaheim was a done deal. After all, the team was trying to get out from underneath the shadow of the Lakers and the Clippers always drew well when they played in Anaheim. So developing a more dedicated fan-base seemed like a no-brainer, but that was probably also the problem.

The Pond obviously wanted to fill their venue with an NBA franchise to complete Anaheim's trifecta of professional sports teams along with the Angels and Ducks. I suspect the city of Anaheim wanted the Clippers fairly badly but the Ogden Corp. controlled the concessions and arena management operations and it at least figured it had Sterling over a barrel in negotiations given the aforementioned perception of the Clippers wanting to establish their own identity in a major metropolitan Southern California market.

However, from what I recall, the Ogden Corp. at one point demanded either 40%, 60% or something outrageous from concessions and even possibly merchandise sales at the Pond. Now I'm not sure when that leverage play occurred in negotiations, but suspect it happened once AEG secured the Lakers for the Staples Center. Again, with Anaheim seeming like the only possibility left, I can see why the Ogden Corp. would try to leverage the upper-hand even as I despised their tactics at the time.

What they didn't understand that I already knew as a long-time Clippers fan was that Sterling had always wanted the team in Los Angeles and needed to win every deal. He even went against league mandate to bring it to L.A. The Clippers were always Sterling's play thing and he already wasn't inclined to brave the traffic to see his team play in Anaheim for the majority of the season. Of course, Sterling could have tried to expand his real-estate empire into Orange County, but Sterling always viewed Los Angeles as the ideal location. It was where he held the most power and wanted to have the most influence.

The only chance Anaheim had of luring the Clippers was to give Sterling a sweetheart deal, which I doubt the city of Anaheim or the Ogden Corp. were inclined to do. They probably figured that Sterling would prioritize the Clippers being seen as a professional organization, but they just didn't do their research on the man. Remember, Sterling was a man who usually got the better end of deals because of the leverage he had and employed on a consistently relentless basis. Sterling got what he wanted in getting cheaper rent in the shiny new Staples Center albeit as 3rd tenants while staying in his beloved city of Los Angeles.

I found it surprising that Ramona Shelburne reported that the Clippers were initially lined up to be the 2nd tenant in Staples Center, but it makes sense now in hindsight after everything played out. Buss owned the Lakers and the Forum, so he wasn't inclined to move the Lakers, so after failing to secure a commitment from the Clippers, AEG presented Buss with a sweetheart deal to purchase part-ownership of the team in order to move them to Staples Center. Sterling was not interested in purchasing the Forum since he normally doesn't invest in construction or renovation costs--Sterling isn't even footing the bill for the millions of dollars in renovations at the Clippers' practice facility in Playa Vista despite still owning the property...Ballmer is--so Buss sold the Forum to a church before that church eventually sold the Forum to the Madison Square Garden Company.

After failing to secure the Clippers, Anaheim and the Ogden Corp. apparently tried to woo the Kings from Sacramento and supposedly came relatively close to getting things into motion before former NBA guard Kevin Johnson succeeded in blocking that attempt, which led to his elevation to be mayor of Sacramento. The Ogden Corp. eventually sold their concessions and management interests in the Pond to Aramark in 2000, but I blame them more than anyone for overplaying their hand in failing to convince Sterling to move the Clippers to Anaheim. Maybe Sterling was never really interested in moving to OC and was only flirting with Anaheim to provide leverage in negotiations with AEG, but the Ogden Corp's demands didn't make it any likelier for Sterling to be won over by Orange County.

Also, like you've pointed out, Dolan is only wasting everyone's time in delaying the inevitable Inglewood arena for the Clippers. The FAA's reaffirmation that the property in question is still not suitable for residential housing but fine for a sports and concert venue adds another nail to Dolan's case. Keep in mind, regardless of whatever agreement Dolan thinks he has, it doesn't seem to apply to sports teams. It didn't keep the Rams from proceeding to build a new football stadium--unless there is an agreement between Dolan and the Rams that I'm not aware of--so it shouldn't keep the Clippers from building a basketball arena either, especially since by Dolan's own admission, the Forum has failed to attract a professional basketball team to play in his venue. At the very worst, Dolan might be able to keep Ballmer from having concerts played at the competing Inglewood arena, but even that is a highly unlikely scenario given the lack of exclusivity language in the contract Dolan has with Inglewood. Even in such an event, does anybody actually think Ballmer would stop from building his basketball arena if he wasn't allowed to have concerts there?

[Ranma]

I'll re-post this article. I thought the Baldwin Hills mall site was a good idea among the other options being thrown around in the email discovery process during one of the earlier lawsuits.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/clippers/la-sp-clippers-arena-emails-20190223-story.html

Yeah, I saw that a few weeks ago. The article doesn't say anything about the current situation though.
Any updates?

We're in a holding pattern. Just waiting for the September 20th court hearing. The plaintiffs won the right to a hearing that basically says that Ballmer's arena location was supposed to be studied as a site for affordable housing before anything else.

I find it confusing though. The FAA has supposedly ruled that the location can't be used for any housing due to it being in the LAX flight path. If that's so, it would seem to be a waste of everyone's time to have a hearing over something that's already be ruled ineligible for housing.

The only reason I bring up the article is because it discusses other sites. If Inglewood does fall apart, I would hope that Ballmer has backup plans

Thanks again, WC NBA Fan. I missed the article before, but it adds another puzzle piece to the big picture of how the events unfolded to get us to where we are today. I have to admit, as slimy and distasteful I find Mayor Butts, he was an invaluable ally in getting the Clippers' Inglewood-arena project off the ground. Butts did an expert job in long-conning MSG in order to secure the rights to the land MSG had limited control over.

This whole situation was years in the making and as the released confidential emails showed, the Clippers were fearful of word leaking out of their interest in the Inglewood property because of MSG and Irving Azoff's ability to kill or otherwise prolong the endeavor. Even as there was rumored interest by the Clippers making its way to MSG and Azoff, Butts was able to alleviate those concerns and direct them to focus on securing parking rights at the Rams' new stadium, thus opening up the land in question for the Clippers to pounce on.

The promise of securing parking at the more convenient and impressive Rams' stadium was the true carrot dangled in front of Dolan's team with talk of the so-called technology park serving as misdirection to draw concerns away from whispers of the Clippers' interest. The Clippers and Butts didn't move forward with publicly committing to a new Inglewood sports-and-entertainment complex until MSG officially gave up all rights to the requisite land.

With the MSG Co. left in the dust and presumably without rights to park at the Rams' new stadium, Dolan and his lawyers are throwing any and everything to the wall in a desperate attempt to see what sticks. So far, they have nothing. The FAA's assessment on the land in question reaffirms that its most suitable for the Clippers' arena project. Vanity Fair reported that there has yet to be found exclusivity language in the contract that would give Dolan authority to block the Clippers' efforts to break ground on its proposed sports-and-entertainment complex.

In short, Dolan doesn't look to have a legal leg to stand on and Ballmer has every reason to feel confident that the Clippers will have a new arena in Inglewood, which Butts is largely responsible for. Butts seemed to line everything up and has practically crossed every "t" and dotted every "i" in terms of his contract agreements respectively with both the MSG Co. and the Clippers.

It's also interesting to note that the confidential emails also revealed that Gillian Zucker is actually worried about the new arena being "locked out of the concert market in LA", but again, if push came to shove, would that keep Ballmer from building his new home for the Clippers?

Of further note is Ballmer's lack of interest in the Carson site and for good reason. I'm not familiar with the Marlton Square shopping center in Baldwin Hills but it's situated close to Staples Center. Likewise, with the old and since-demolished Sports Arena land. I believe there was also land offered to Ballmer near City Hall that used to house the Los Angeles Times. In any case, Ballmer's buddy and Clippers minority owner Dennis Wong seems focused on Inglewood calling the location a transformational opportunity.

Nathan Fenno, Los Angeles Times (2/23/19)

The Clippers are not a fit to play at the Forum because of Ballmer’s insistence on his team controlling its home dates in a venue designed for basketball. The Forum’s renovation geared that facility toward music and entertainment options other than big-time professional sports.

The documents show that while the Clippers said they were “focused” on Inglewood, their discussions included the since-demolished Sports Arena near USC, the Marlton Square shopping center in Baldwin Hills and the 157-acre former landfill in Carson where the Chargers and Oakland Raiders once hoped to build a stadium.

“Pass on Carson,” Ballmer emailed Wong a day later. “We would never go there. Staples would be better.”

Wong suggested in a November 2016 email to Ballmer that the owner “slow roll” efforts to secure another site while Butts brokered a deal for MSG to use parking at Kroenke’s football stadium so the company would no longer need the city-owned land.

The day after the lease was terminated, Azoff emailed Butts and others about the mayor’s efforts to broker a deal for MSG to use parking at the new stadium. “I trust the mayor to get us to the promised land,” he wrote.

Sealed Court Documents Show Clippers Plans for Inglewood Arena Had Discreet Beginning

[WC NBA Fan]

Great stuff as always Ranma. I'll touch on some of those issues as well.

I remember walking into the then Anaheim Arena back when it was built in '93 for an event called "Battle of the Basketball stars" or something along those lines. Lame event. Mid tier NBA players like Stacey Augmon & a washed up Xavier McDaniel doing the 50 yard dash and tug o war. I was only 21 at the time and didn't really care about the event but rather just wanted to see the arena. At the time, it was the most state of the art arena in the NHL or NBA.

As you mentioned, there was no internet at the time so we had to rely on radio talk shows and print media but just about everyone or both agreed that it would be a no brainer for the Clippers to move there full time. Sterling was the only reason it wasn't happening despite attempts from the Anaheim people to fly him in via helicopter for free if he didn't like the traffic. That was all just a waste of time. They could've teleported him like they did on Star Trek and he wouldn't come. He wanted to be in LA period.

Despite all that, they actually did make progress at one point. In the summer of '96, the league had 2 bullet point items that it needed to address. There was a mini lockout of sorts in '95 that was quick enough to the point that there weren't any games missed but they never put it in writing so they had to take care of that and the 2nd item was making sure the Clippers would move to Anaheim.

A few weeks later, it seemed like a done deal. John Ireland, our resident Laker homer, actually worked for the Clippers at one time. Not sure if he was with them in '96 or not but he did have some inside info on what went down. Legend has it that the deal was done but that they just needed to get Donald's signature on the paperwork. They had a champagne on ice party and were all ready to go. Like you mentioned, it was reps from the Ogden corporation who set up the party. DTS eventually showed up but then excused himself for a moment because he "needed to use the restroom". As you may have figured, he never came back. The gutless Sterling just left everyone hanging and never came back. He probably had Andy Roeser call to give them the bad news.

Stories like this are why I doubt Ramona's sources. While it makes perfect sense on the surface being that Donald always wanted to be downtown while Buss wanted to stay in Inglewood due to over 3 decades of familiarity with the location, the Staples rumors didn't start up until the summer of '96, right around the time that the Anaheim incident took place. Everything that was made public that summer was that this was a Kings/Lakers deal only. If we are to believe Ramona's sources, it's possible that everything between the Kings and Clippers was very backroom oriented and could possibly have gone back to '95 or even earlier and that because it was all backroom, we never heard a peep about it in the media. I just don't see why Anaheim was ever an option knowing how much DTS loves LA if Staples was supposed to be for him in the first place. My thinking was that the Clips were never an option for Staples until someone with AEG got the blessing from the NBA to have 2 teams in one building and as soon as that came up, most likely around the time of the champagne on ice party, he bolted for the toilet and proceeded to negotiate for the next year and a half on a lease to become the 3rd wheel.

It's also possible that Ramona's contacts are correct and like I said in my other post, Anaheim was all just a 3 year leverage ploy to get a better deal out of AEG. Completely classless and gutless to leave everyone hanging and dissapointed but that would be Donald so I don't put it past him.

As for me personally, I always hoped that the Anaheim possibility would come back. It did briefly in the summer of 2004 when the original AEG/Clipper lease was a year from being up. They hit a stalemate in negotiations and Anaheim came to the forefront. Hacksaw Hamilton even reported that it was a better than 50/50 chance but as usual, it was just another leverage by Donald. Anaheim was his bitch and it worked again.

I pretty much knew it was a dead deal unless someone else bought the team. When the V Stiviano tapes emerged and Ballmer finally took over, I put together a website with the help of a couple friends trying to convince Ballmer to come to Anaheim but it was just a fruitless effort and I didn't put much effort into it. I came to the conclusion that the fans didn't want it to happen. A lot of fans are millenials and were either very young or not born yet when the Anaheim stuff was going on. The arena is getting old and while still very functional and better than a few current NBA cribs, it's not the state of the art wonder that it was back in '93. It's time to look forward to what Ballmer has in store.

Which brings us to where we are now. I'm all on board with the IBEC (Inglewood Basketball & Entertainment Center). My preference was for the Baldwin Hills site for no other reason than it has a subway station next door already to go in less than a year, well before the opening of the arena. I guess it's sort of close to Staples but GPS has it at 6 miles which is the distance from MSG to Barclays Center so there is NBA precedence for that setup. Then again, Dolan tried to stop that so I could see him trying to stop Baldwin Hills even though it's not Inglewood LOL. In fact, I think that's the reason why they came up with the Senate bills that were created to speed up the California arena process. The Kings and Warriors were able to get things done relatively quick and the A's and Clippers have a similar bill meant to speed things up. What Dolan did was get a resident named Daniel Goldstein to create a grass roots group to keep starting new lawsuits right as they were about to lose a previous lawsuit. Therefore, they were able to string along the process for 5 years and it almost worked. Net ownership ran out of money and if it weren't for Prokhorov, they most likely would've given up the project and the Nets would be playing in Newark. Even so, Barclays is a very bare bones arena for modern standards due to the project needing to be scaled back so much.

What the California lawmakers came up with for the Kings & Warriors was basically a rule stating that any lawsuit must be filed within 3 months from the end of the EIR process. No stringing it along Dolan/Goldstein style for 4 years.

The A's/Clipper bill is similar only it says that any lawsuit itself has to be decided on within a year of the end of the EIR.

Back to IBEC, I've always held rail public transportation as a must to go with a new arena for multiple reasons, the main two being that it's a cheap alternative and it cuts down on traffic in the neighborhood. This is why I've been a proponent of the Inglewood transit connector. While not the perfect option, it will work if it gets done. The ideal situation would just be to have a 2nd line on the Crenshaw/LAX route that breaks off Florence at Prairie and just heads down to the Forum, the NFL stadium and then finally the arena but for whatever reason, MTA doesn't want to do it so we're left with the Inglewood private project.

Lastly, I will add that I've tried to get updates on the transit connector since all the articles about it date back to 2018 and we've seen nothing as of late. I've emailed the project manager and haven't gotten an update. I've linked the above article that talks about the 2023 opening on various twitter threads and one commenter even added Butts to the conversation to see if the article had any merit. As far as I know, Butts hasn't responded so it appears to be up in the air. This is very much a stay tuned type of project but it would help a great deal if MTA is indeed not going to build a rail spur.

[WC NBA Fan]

There have been some false reports on the radio saying that the Clippers haven't even started the EIR process. Here is a copy of the city of Inglewood's notice of preparation stating that the process started in March of 2018. It should be finishing up any day now.

https://www.cityofinglewood.org/DocumentCenter/View/11541/Inglewood-Basketball-and-Entertainment-Ctr-Notice-of-Preparation-Feb-20-2018?bidId=

[Ranma]

Ballmer is committed to investing $80 million towards affordable housing, which might satisfy that component of the legal hurdles. Up to $75 million of which will be in the form of low-interest loans for the acquisition, preservation, or development of affordable and mixed-income housing with up to another $6 million toward improvements for the public library and financial assistance for renters and first-time homeowners.

With the lack of legs on Dolan's lawsuit, all the dominos are almost lined up for a simple tip to set everything into motion after the hearing takes place later this month.

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Andrew Greif, Los Angeles Times (9/10/19)

The developers’ intent is “making sure that there’s a positive benefit of this building,” Zucker said. “Even if you have no interest in basketball, and can’t name our coach or a player and will never come to our game, that you’re still glad the Clippers are in Inglewood.”

In July, Ballmer expressed confidence that construction will begin at the latest by mid-2021 despite litigation seeking to block the project.

Clippers Propose Committing About $100 Million in Benefits to Inglewood as Part of Arena Deal


Ohm Youngmisuk, ESPN.com (9/10/19)

"This is really a continuation of what Steve and Connie have invested in over the five years that I have known them," Gillian Zucker, the Clippers' president of business operations, said of Ballmer and his wife. "Which has really been about how do you tackle this idea of making the American dream available to all children and really addressing the poverty issue? In a community that we intend to call home, we have an opportunity to do something really powerful and impactful."

Clips' Arena Deal to Include $100M for Inglewood

[Ranma]

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[mttwlsn16]

Man, going from DTS to Balmer. Couldn't possibly have a more opposite and better owner lol.

[WC NBA Fan]

Thanks for the links Ranma. Always appreciated.

I'm not sure if it was on this board or another Clippers site but I actually brought up the possibility of Ballmer investing in affordable housing in a different part of the city as a way to satisfy the plaintiffs. The great thing about what Ballmer is doing is that he doesn't even have to be doing it. The FAA ruled in his favor so the hearing is going to go in his favor. Therefore, he doesn't have to do anything but he sees a community need and is doing right by it.

[50CalClips]

Man, going from DTS to Balmer. Couldn't possibly have a more opposite and better owner lol.

Had the exact same thought!
What a difference a (good) man can make.

[Ranma]

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Andrew Greif, Los Angeles Times (9/19/19)

Following an offseason remodel greenlighted by team owner Steve Ballmer, the 11-year-old Playa Vista building has a renovated locker room, larger weight and training rooms, and a new space for media.

The Clippers on Friday will announce the renamed Honey Training Center as part of a corporate sponsorship deal with Honey, a tech firm founded and based in Los Angeles that finds discounts for online shoppers, according to a person with knowledge of the agreement. The logo of the seven-year-old company also will be displayed on the Clippers’ practice courts and jerseys the team wears during practices.

Terms of the deal were not disclosed but it lasts at least four years and the team will receive a “multimillion-dollar investment,” the person said.

Clippers officials have previously said they don’t envision remaining at their current facility past the 2023-24 NBA season, planning instead to move into a new training center in Inglewood that would be connected to a proposed Clippers arena financed by Ballmer.

The Clippers’ Practice Facility Will Be Named Honey Training Center in Rights Deal

[Wammy Giveaway]

Bumble (a dating/networking app) and Honey (specializes in coupons) are words associated with bees. I'm looking for another company whose name is bee-related. You know me and my rule of three: if the Clippers align with one more company that has a bee connotation, then I have a feeling of a major franchise shift.

[Ranma]

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[Ranma]

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