Kobe's statistical shortcomings

[Johnny Bball]

Kawhi picks Kobe over LeBron:

BuT yOu MuSt bE CrAzY iF yOu hAvE KoBe iN YoUr ToP 5

Watch on YouTube

No, he doesn't. You just don't understand the question or the answer.

[ProspectPark]

Kawhi picks Kobe over LeBron:

BuT yOu MuSt bE CrAzY iF yOu hAvE KoBe iN YoUr ToP 5

Watch on YouTube

Kawhi is from L.A and is a guy that has competed against Lebron during the finals.

He's not going to say Lebron.

Why would that matter? I think Curry has Lebron in his Top 5. I thought Game recognize Game?

[NCHeels2008]

Considering people put Boston and Lebron on such pedestals, winning 09 and 10 should really get more credit. Gasol was "weak" and "soft" according to most of you fools unless you're talking the years he played with Kobe, then he's treated like a MVP level player. And for as much as Shaq carried Kobe, he sure didn't win many titles without him.

[Danny1616]

Kawhi picks Kobe over LeBron:

BuT yOu MuSt bE CrAzY iF yOu hAvE KoBe iN YoUr ToP 5

Watch on YouTube

Kawhi is from L.A and is a guy that has competed against Lebron during the finals.

He's not going to say Lebron.

Why would that matter? I think Curry has Lebron in his Top 5. I thought Game recognize Game?

Did Kawhi say Lebron is not in his top 5?

Kawhi also said Iverson was his favorite player of all time.

Players aren't always the most objective people. Isiah Thomas said if Bird was black he wouldn't even be considered that great. He only said that because he hated Bird as the Celtics were an obstacle to the Pistons in the East despite Bird being the clear-cut best player in the NBA from 1983-1987. Ron Artest said Brandon Roy was the toughest player he ever went up against.

[ProspectPark]

Kawhi is from L.A and is a guy that has competed against Lebron during the finals.

He's not going to say Lebron.

Why would that matter? I think Curry has Lebron in his Top 5. I thought Game recognize Game?

Did Kawhi say Lebron is not in his top 5?

Kawhi also said Iverson was his favorite player of all time.

Players aren't always the most objective people. Isiah Thomas said if Bird was black he wouldn't even be considered that great. He only said that because he hated Bird as the Celtics were an obstacle to the Pistons in the East despite Bird being the clear-cut best player in the NBA from 1983-1987. Ron Artest said Brandon Roy was the toughest player he ever went up against.

Yes we all have different opinions. I don’t understand why some fans are so insecure they have to call anyone who disagrees with them as “delusional”.

[G35]

I always enjoy people referencing Kobe's finals series against by far the two best defensive teams in NBA history.

I guess thats one way to eliminate him from a GOAT debate he was never in in the first place.

Funny thing is, Dirk shot 41% against Miami in the 2011 finals, and that's considered as one of the best performances. Shooting percentage can be very misleading, especially on a small sample size.

There's nothing misleading about Kobe's percentages in the 04 and 08 finals. He shot the ball like **** in both, and how clutch can you have been in 1-4 and 2-4 losses. Of course, no one mentions how great he was defensively in both those series, because the decisive losses render it inconsequential, and we judge mainly by offense if you underperformed enough on that end.

But when the two best defensive teams in history are selling out on making you shoot poorly, you shooting poorly shouldn't exactly be a shock to anyone. And yet it appears it still is.

Yeah, Kobe played against the two best defenses in the finals in the past 20+ years and he gets criticized for shooting poorly but then we always apply "context" to players like Harden, Curry, Lebron, etc.

But Kobe, no its just pure numbers when judging him.

There's no shame in that he shot poorly/played poorly in the playoffs...that's what is suppose to happen. Jordan and I think only Olajuwon can really say they clearly improve in the playoffs.

Lebron vs Spurs 2007
Lebron vs Mavericks 2011
Lebron missing the playoffs 2019

Oh no he's legit in the GOAT conversation........

[Danny1616]

Why would that matter? I think Curry has Lebron in his Top 5. I thought Game recognize Game?

Did Kawhi say Lebron is not in his top 5?

Kawhi also said Iverson was his favorite player of all time.

Players aren't always the most objective people. Isiah Thomas said if Bird was black he wouldn't even be considered that great. He only said that because he hated Bird as the Celtics were an obstacle to the Pistons in the East despite Bird being the clear-cut best player in the NBA from 1983-1987. Ron Artest said Brandon Roy was the toughest player he ever went up against.

Yes we all have different opinions. I don’t understand why some fans are so insecure they have to call anyone who disagrees with them as “delusional”.

Also, I hate when fans think that an NBA player's opinion is somehow more credible than any other person. We see NBA players all the time make foolish statements that make no sense.

Players are usually the most biased because they only played with certain players, they may not not liked other players, there may be jealousy, they may have teammates that didn't like other players etc. I saw Pierce claim he was better than Wade and downplay Lebron probably due to the rivalry he had with the Heat, I saw Damon Jones predict the Magic would beat the Raptors in the 1st round, I saw Arenas early in the playoffs say Kawhi is an easy player to guard 1 v 1 and that the Raptors had no shot against the Sixers.

Yeah sometimes player's opinions are useful, but I give more credence to a data analyst/reporter/journalist that actually looked at the evidence and statistics objectively and came to a detailed conclusion.

[ProspectPark]

Did Kawhi say Lebron is not in his top 5?

Kawhi also said Iverson was his favorite player of all time.

Players aren't always the most objective people. Isiah Thomas said if Bird was black he wouldn't even be considered that great. He only said that because he hated Bird as the Celtics were an obstacle to the Pistons in the East despite Bird being the clear-cut best player in the NBA from 1983-1987. Ron Artest said Brandon Roy was the toughest player he ever went up against.

Yes we all have different opinions. I don’t understand why some fans are so insecure they have to call anyone who disagrees with them as “delusional”.

Also, I hate when fans think that an NBA player's opinion is somehow more credible than any other person. We see NBA players all the time make foolish statements that make no sense.

Players are usually the most biased because they only played with certain players, they may not not liked other players, there may be jealousy, they may have teammates that didn't like other players etc. I saw Pierce claim he was better than Wade and downplay Lebron probably due to the rivalry he had with the Heat, I saw Damon Jones predict the Magic would beat the Raptors in the 1st round, I saw Arenas early in the playoffs say Kawhi is an easy player to guard 1 v 1 and that the Raptors had no shot against the Sixers.

Yeah sometimes player's opinions are useful, but I give more credence to a data analyst/reporter/journalist that actually looked at the evidence and statistics objectively and came to a detailed conclusion.

Fans and journalists are a thousand times more biased than the players.

[G35]

Did Kawhi say Lebron is not in his top 5?

Kawhi also said Iverson was his favorite player of all time.

Players aren't always the most objective people. Isiah Thomas said if Bird was black he wouldn't even be considered that great. He only said that because he hated Bird as the Celtics were an obstacle to the Pistons in the East despite Bird being the clear-cut best player in the NBA from 1983-1987. Ron Artest said Brandon Roy was the toughest player he ever went up against.

Yes we all have different opinions. I don’t understand why some fans are so insecure they have to call anyone who disagrees with them as “delusional”.

Also, I hate when fans think that an NBA player's opinion is somehow more credible than any other person. We see NBA players all the time make foolish statements that make no sense.

Players are usually the most biased because they only played with certain players, they may not not liked other players, there may be jealousy, they may have teammates that didn't like other players etc. I saw Pierce claim he was better than Wade and downplay Lebron probably due to the rivalry he had with the Heat, I saw Damon Jones predict the Magic would beat the Raptors in the 1st round, I saw Arenas early in the playoffs say Kawhi is an easy player to guard 1 v 1 and that the Raptors had no shot against the Sixers.

Yeah sometimes player's opinions are useful, but I give more credence to a data analyst/reporter/journalist that actually looked at the evidence and statistics objectively and came to a detailed conclusion.

Both ways are biased and subjective and neither is better than the other.

It's like saying I trust a liberal news site over a conservative news site......

[Repeat 3-peat]

Bashing Kobe is not fun anymore. His game has already been eviscerated to a morbid degree.
PS: what's up with these tiny pic images ?

Tinypic shutdown. http://tinypic.com/


FWIW, https://imgur.com/ is a good alternate to upload avatars/signatures.

[Danny1616]

Yes we all have different opinions. I don’t understand why some fans are so insecure they have to call anyone who disagrees with them as “delusional”.

Also, I hate when fans think that an NBA player's opinion is somehow more credible than any other person. We see NBA players all the time make foolish statements that make no sense.

Players are usually the most biased because they only played with certain players, they may not not liked other players, there may be jealousy, they may have teammates that didn't like other players etc. I saw Pierce claim he was better than Wade and downplay Lebron probably due to the rivalry he had with the Heat, I saw Damon Jones predict the Magic would beat the Raptors in the 1st round, I saw Arenas early in the playoffs say Kawhi is an easy player to guard 1 v 1 and that the Raptors had no shot against the Sixers.

Yeah sometimes player's opinions are useful, but I give more credence to a data analyst/reporter/journalist that actually looked at the evidence and statistics objectively and came to a detailed conclusion.

Both ways are biased and subjective and neither is better than the other.

It's like saying I trust a liberal news site over a conservative news site......

What?

I simply said I trust the opinion of someone who has done objective research based on evidence over someone who is basing his analysis purely on subjective opinion.

Subjective opinions are useful but accorded less credibility when not supported by objective evidence.

So when Gilbert Arenas says Kawhi isn't a good 1 vs. 1 player and could be easily stopped without being supported by objective evidence his opinion is useless. Evidence since 2017 shows Kawhi is one of the deadliest isolation players in the game on deadly efficiency.

When Paul Pierce claims he was a better player than Wade despite vast amounts of evidence pointing to the contrary, his opinion is not credible.

You aren't getting what I'm saying, dude.

[ProspectPark]

Also, I hate when fans think that an NBA player's opinion is somehow more credible than any other person. We see NBA players all the time make foolish statements that make no sense.

Players are usually the most biased because they only played with certain players, they may not not liked other players, there may be jealousy, they may have teammates that didn't like other players etc. I saw Pierce claim he was better than Wade and downplay Lebron probably due to the rivalry he had with the Heat, I saw Damon Jones predict the Magic would beat the Raptors in the 1st round, I saw Arenas early in the playoffs say Kawhi is an easy player to guard 1 v 1 and that the Raptors had no shot against the Sixers.

Yeah sometimes player's opinions are useful, but I give more credence to a data analyst/reporter/journalist that actually looked at the evidence and statistics objectively and came to a detailed conclusion.

Both ways are biased and subjective and neither is better than the other.

It's like saying I trust a liberal news site over a conservative news site......

What?

I simply said I trust the opinion of someone who has done objective research based on evidence over someone who is basing his analysis purely on subjective opinion.

Subjective opinions are useful but accorded less credibility when not supported by objective evidence.

So when Gilbert Arenas says Kawhi isn't a good 1 vs. 1 player and could be easily stopped without being supported by objective evidence his opinion is useless. Evidence since 2017 shows Kawhi is one of the deadliest isolation players in the game on deadly efficiency.

When Paul Pierce claims he was a better player than Wade despite vast amounts of evidence pointing to the contrary, his opinion is not credible.

You aren't getting what I'm saying, dude.

Why would you listen to Gilbert Arenas?

[Danny1616]

Both ways are biased and subjective and neither is better than the other.

It's like saying I trust a liberal news site over a conservative news site......

What?

I simply said I trust the opinion of someone who has done objective research based on evidence over someone who is basing his analysis purely on subjective opinion.

Subjective opinions are useful but accorded less credibility when not supported by objective evidence.

So when Gilbert Arenas says Kawhi isn't a good 1 vs. 1 player and could be easily stopped without being supported by objective evidence his opinion is useless. Evidence since 2017 shows Kawhi is one of the deadliest isolation players in the game on deadly efficiency.

When Paul Pierce claims he was a better player than Wade despite vast amounts of evidence pointing to the contrary, his opinion is not credible.

You aren't getting what I'm saying, dude.

Why would you listen to Gilbert Arenas?

He's entertaining despite being a complete lunatic.

[GeorgeMarcus]

I’ve pulled back the reigns on Kobe hating after it became so trendy, but the fact remains that he simply doesn’t belong in the GOAT conversation. Even if you’re a sucker for “mamba mentality”, volume scoring and championship success, he’s clearly a worse player than MJ.

He is, but so is everybody else really.

Eh, LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell all have coherent GOAT arguments. Wilt is #1 on my list.

[wutevahung]

Yes we all have different opinions. I don’t understand why some fans are so insecure they have to call anyone who disagrees with them as “delusional”.

Also, I hate when fans think that an NBA player's opinion is somehow more credible than any other person. We see NBA players all the time make foolish statements that make no sense.

Players are usually the most biased because they only played with certain players, they may not not liked other players, there may be jealousy, they may have teammates that didn't like other players etc. I saw Pierce claim he was better than Wade and downplay Lebron probably due to the rivalry he had with the Heat, I saw Damon Jones predict the Magic would beat the Raptors in the 1st round, I saw Arenas early in the playoffs say Kawhi is an easy player to guard 1 v 1 and that the Raptors had no shot against the Sixers.

Yeah sometimes player's opinions are useful, but I give more credence to a data analyst/reporter/journalist that actually looked at the evidence and statistics objectively and came to a detailed conclusion.

Both ways are biased and subjective and neither is better than the other.

It's like saying I trust a liberal news site over a conservative news site......

if you are weighing the two on a scale? yes you should definitely trust one more than the other, and it's not that close in both cases.
but the correct answer is to throw away the scale, and try to look at the whole picture.

[triple_threat]

Funny thing is, Dirk shot 41% against Miami in the 2011 finals, and that's considered as one of the best performances. Shooting percentage can be very misleading, especially on a small sample size.

There's nothing misleading about Kobe's percentages in the 04 and 08 finals. He shot the ball like **** in both, and how clutch can you have been in 1-4 and 2-4 losses. Of course, no one mentions how great he was defensively in both those series, because the decisive losses render it inconsequential, and we judge mainly by offense if you underperformed enough on that end.

But when the two best defensive teams in history are selling out on making you shoot poorly, you shooting poorly shouldn't exactly be a shock to anyone. And yet it appears it still is.

Yeah, Kobe played against the two best defenses in the finals in the past 20+ years and he gets criticized for shooting poorly but then we always apply "context" to players like Harden, Curry, Lebron, etc.

But Kobe, no its just pure numbers when judging him.

There's no shame in that he shot poorly/played poorly in the playoffs...that's what is suppose to happen. Jordan and I think only Olajuwon can really say they clearly improve in the playoffs.

Lebron vs Spurs 2007
Lebron vs Mavericks 2011
Lebron missing the playoffs 2019

Oh no he's legit in the GOAT conversation........

Dont forget kobe got swept by those mavs in those playoffs. Dont forget kobe missed the playoffs at age 26 if i recall correctly without suffering a major injury that year. Dont forget kobe in his 4th year only averaged 22.5 ppg and put up the worst finals stats in the history of the nba for a top 10-15 player

[lakerz12]

How many players have been the first or second best player on at least 3 Championship teams AND been the best player on at least 2 Championship teams?

Requires a minimum of 5 total rings.

Not LeBron. Not KD. Not Curry. Not Shaq. Not DWade. Not Hakeem. Not Dirk. Not KG. Not CP3. Etc.

Who else has done it?

In Kobe's era I think the only other person is Tim Duncan.

Before that, Michael Jordan. Remember, Scottie Pippen doesn't qualify because he was never the best player on 2 championship teams as Kobe was.

Besides MJ, you have to go back to Magic, Kareem, Russell.

So before you diss Kobe just remember he's in some VERY RARE territory when it comes to WINNING. In the past 30 years, only he, Tim Duncan, and Michael Jordan have won 5+ rings as the first and second best player on the teams.

Maybe that's why other players hold him in high regard. He just WON.

[Gooner]

Kawhi picks Kobe over LeBron:

BuT yOu MuSt bE CrAzY iF yOu hAvE KoBe iN YoUr ToP 5

Watch on YouTube

No, he doesn't. You just don't understand the question or the answer.

Yes he does, you can spin it anyway you want, but there is no room for interpretation. It was a simple question adn a simple answer. Don't be childish.

[Gooner]

There's nothing misleading about Kobe's percentages in the 04 and 08 finals. He shot the ball like **** in both, and how clutch can you have been in 1-4 and 2-4 losses. Of course, no one mentions how great he was defensively in both those series, because the decisive losses render it inconsequential, and we judge mainly by offense if you underperformed enough on that end.

But when the two best defensive teams in history are selling out on making you shoot poorly, you shooting poorly shouldn't exactly be a shock to anyone. And yet it appears it still is.

Yeah, Kobe played against the two best defenses in the finals in the past 20+ years and he gets criticized for shooting poorly but then we always apply "context" to players like Harden, Curry, Lebron, etc.

But Kobe, no its just pure numbers when judging him.

There's no shame in that he shot poorly/played poorly in the playoffs...that's what is suppose to happen. Jordan and I think only Olajuwon can really say they clearly improve in the playoffs.

Lebron vs Spurs 2007
Lebron vs Mavericks 2011
Lebron missing the playoffs 2019

Oh no he's legit in the GOAT conversation........

Dont forget kobe got swept by those mavs in those playoffs. Dont forget kobe missed the playoffs at age 26 if i recall correctly without suffering a major injury that year. Dont forget kobe in his 4th year only averaged 22.5 ppg and put up the worst finals stats in the history of the nba for a top 10-15 player

Kobe missed a lot of games the year he missed the playoffs. It as the ame situation as LeBron's this year, but with a worse supporting cast.

[Gooner]

Kawhi picks Kobe over LeBron:

BuT yOu MuSt bE CrAzY iF yOu hAvE KoBe iN YoUr ToP 5

Watch on YouTube

Kawhi is crazy, did you hear his laugh? Lol. It woldn't surprise me if these LeBron fanboys reach for that explanation.