OT: Team "Celtics" USA eliminated by France in the quarter-finals

[Ke-y]

Let’s be honest with ourselves here. FVV had a bad regular season, a bad 2 rounds of the playoffs, and even a bad first half of the Bucks series. The recent bias is insane.

Steady freddy has proven himself so i ride with him.. i felt the same before he turned it ard in the playoffs.. there's some guys who slump and i wonder if they'll ever break out.. i trust fred.. in fact i trust him more on offense than i do lowry (prob not a popular opinion but there it is).. he has the potential to have a lowry type career.. lowry is better defensively but fvv can be better offensively.

FVV is not as good as Lowry now offends **** stop this ****

The FVV love is absolutely insane. He isn’t a starting caliber player; those other 3 guys are.

Keep sleeping on Fred.. He's a solid starting pg in the league within 2 yrs

[YogurtProducer]

Steady freddy has proven himself so i ride with him.. i felt the same before he turned it ard in the playoffs.. there's some guys who slump and i wonder if they'll ever break out.. i trust fred.. in fact i trust him more on offense than i do lowry (prob not a popular opinion but there it is).. he has the potential to have a lowry type career.. lowry is better defensively but fvv can be better offensively.

FVV is not as good as Lowry now offends **** stop this ****

The FVV love is absolutely insane. He isn’t a starting caliber player; those other 3 guys are.

Keep sleeping on Fred.. He's a solid starting pg in the league within 2 yrs

Okay? Good thing we’re talking about the past and present.

If his prime is a solid starting PGZ that’s no where near Lowrys all-nba caliber peak nor his current all star caliber.

[bon]

Let’s be honest with ourselves here. FVV had a bad regular season, a bad 2 rounds of the playoffs, and even a bad first half of the Bucks series. The recent bias is insane.

Lol what are you talking about? FVV had a better regular season than all of those guys (on a much more talented team) plus what he did against the Warriors in the Finals is more significant than anything else those other guys have done in their careers.

I'll give you FVV is better than Derrick White and Marcus Smart but Joe Harris is awesome. He led the league in 3pt shooting last season 47% at 5 attempts per game, he was so fun to watch. If we had him this season hoooo boy. Hopefully Matt Thomas is the next Joe Harris for us and we've got it made.

His defense is suspect and he was useless in the playoffs.

How? He was the least efficient and is arguably the worst defender other than Jos Harris.

The homerism on this board is insane. You trade FVV for any of those guys instantly

Out of the 4 he's the best playmaker, as well as the 2nd best shooter and scorer. Among that group you have 2 guys with very shaky jumpers and another guy with suspect defense. So why are you pretending like we're comparing VanVleet to a group of superstars?

Am I reading the right names here?

They're clearly all role players; taking one over the other is homerism now? Lol this board has some jokers. Call me when any of these guys guard Curry the way VanVleet did, then we'll talk.

[Bruteque]

Good god, man. I shudder to think how the Celtics will look when the season starts when Donovan Mitchell isn't on the team.

[Ke-y]

FVV is not as good as Lowry now offends **** stop this ****

The FVV love is absolutely insane. He isn’t a starting caliber player; those other 3 guys are.

Keep sleeping on Fred.. He's a solid starting pg in the league within 2 yrs

Okay? Good thing we’re talking about the past and present.

If his prime is a solid starting PGZ that’s no where near Lowrys all-nba caliber peak nor his current all star caliber.

1. Solid nba players is what all those role players project to be.. Your point that they are "miles" better than fvv doesn't hold water.
2. Fvv at worst is a solid starting pg (top 15) in his prime.. He is not far from Lowry in terms of talent.. Sure he's a weaker defender but he projects to be better on offense. Lowry was a fringe All-Star who was consistently a top 5-10 pg in this league.. I don't see why fvv can't push himself from top 15 pg to top 10 or higher considering they are similarly talented, equally athletic and bring the same intangibles of work ethic, leadership and IQ

[YogurtProducer]

Keep sleeping on Fred.. He's a solid starting pg in the league within 2 yrs

Okay? Good thing we’re talking about the past and present.

If his prime is a solid starting PGZ that’s no where near Lowrys all-nba caliber peak nor his current all star caliber.

1. Solid nba players is what all those role players project to be.. Your point that they are "miles" better than fvv doesn't hold water.
2. Fvv at worst is a solid starting pg (top 15) in his prime.. He is not far from Lowry in terms of talent.. Sure he's a weaker defender but he projects to be better on offense. Lowry was a fringe All-Star who was consistently a top 5-10 pg in this league.. I don't see why fvv can't push himself from top 15 pg to top 10 or higher considering they are similarly talented, equally athletic and bring the same intangibles of work ethic, leadership and IQ

FVV right now is like a fringe starting PG, MAYBE

[RaptorsNorth]

Everybody is shocked the USA C team are losing all these games, but I'm more shocked that they totally ran our B Team off the court in a game that wasn't even competetive. If their A team play our A team do we really have a shot ? Also how was FVV not on this USA C team

[raptorforlife88]

Keep sleeping on Fred.. He's a solid starting pg in the league within 2 yrs

Okay? Good thing we’re talking about the past and present.

If his prime is a solid starting PGZ that’s no where near Lowrys all-nba caliber peak nor his current all star caliber.

1. Solid nba players is what all those role players project to be.. Your point that they are "miles" better than fvv doesn't hold water.
2. Fvv at worst is a solid starting pg (top 15) in his prime.. He is not far from Lowry in terms of talent.. Sure he's a weaker defender but he projects to be better on offense. Lowry was a fringe All-Star who was consistently a top 5-10 pg in this league.. I don't see why fvv can't push himself from top 15 pg to top 10 or higher considering they are similarly talented, equally athletic and bring the same intangibles of work ethic, leadership and IQ

Lowry is a five time all star so that's clearly well past fringe all star. And his advanced numbers (WS, BPM, VORP, RAPM) all had him as just about a top ten player in the league for about three of those seasons. It is ridiculous to think FVV is going to be as good as that given he has not shown the same level of play yet.

He absolutely does not project to better on offense than a guy whose offensive advanced stats also had him in the top 15 guys in the league consistently. Are you honestly saying you expect FVV to be on the top 15 NBA players at some point? I just cannot see that as anywhere near a realistic expectation.

[GoSu]

[Ke-y]

Okay? Good thing we’re talking about the past and present.

If his prime is a solid starting PGZ that’s no where near Lowrys all-nba caliber peak nor his current all star caliber.

1. Solid nba players is what all those role players project to be.. Your point that they are "miles" better than fvv doesn't hold water.
2. Fvv at worst is a solid starting pg (top 15) in his prime.. He is not far from Lowry in terms of talent.. Sure he's a weaker defender but he projects to be better on offense. Lowry was a fringe All-Star who was consistently a top 5-10 pg in this league.. I don't see why fvv can't push himself from top 15 pg to top 10 or higher considering they are similarly talented, equally athletic and bring the same intangibles of work ethic, leadership and IQ

Lowry is a five time all star so that's clearly well past fringe all star. And his advanced numbers (WS, BPM, VORP, RAPM) all had him as just about a top ten player in the league for about three of those seasons. It is ridiculous to think FVV is going to be as good as that given he has not shown the same level of play yet.

He absolutely does not project to better on offense than a guy whose offensive advanced stats also had him in the top 15 guys in the league consistently. Are you honestly saying you expect FVV to be on the top 15 NBA players at some point? I just cannot see that as anywhere near a realistic expectation.

I said top 15 "PG" who can sneak up to top 10 like Lowry.. Lowry is a career over achiever.. I'm not saying fvv becomes a 5 time allstar or even 1 time allstar but i can see him being a starting pg on a contender.

Also lowrys 5 allstars are partially due to circumstance (good team, coach and org and being in the east).. There's players like Conley than never sniff allstar even with individual and team success so that accolade means little to me

[Psubs]

[mrdressup]

Fred is the next version of Steph Curry. I project him to have among the best 10-3 point shooting percentages in the league this year. I have that much confidence in his shot making ability. I'm hoping he's working on his passing game this off season, cuz that's where he needs to get better. The inability to hook up guys like Ibaka and Siakam is no longer going to be acceptable. He has struggled with the PnR feeds.

[vbmeer]

Trade FVV, end the madness

[Kevin Willis]

Yeah they lost to Serbia. Ugh.

[TheAlchemist]

It's funny because of all the Celtics trash.

I think Ainge screwed up big time. BIG time. He had so many damn assets, like we're talking about a kings ransom.

What he got in return is Jaylen Brown, Tatum, and .. Kemba Walker in free agency?

He could've traded a lot of the stuff Boston had for a chance at Kyrie and Kawhi or Anthony Davis. I'm sure Kawhi would've at least stayed a year or two in Boston, seeing how they're NBA's princess franchise.

That being said, even if they didn't trade for Anthony Davis or Kawhi, there where a lot of players to be had that could've made the Celtics a championship team.

For instance, they could've swung for a Westbrook, maybe throw that sh*t load of draft picks for a Bradley Beal.

I just am not sold at the mental toughness of both Tatum and Brown. Kemba's obviously a baller, but I feel he suffers from the same thing a guy like Lowry does, which is his height makes him not as impactful.

[SHFT]

Keep sleeping on Fred.. He's a solid starting pg in the league within 2 yrs

Okay? Good thing we’re talking about the past and present.

If his prime is a solid starting PGZ that’s no where near Lowrys all-nba caliber peak nor his current all star caliber.

1. Solid nba players is what all those role players project to be.. Your point that they are "miles" better than fvv doesn't hold water.
2. Fvv at worst is a solid starting pg (top 15) in his prime.. He is not far from Lowry in terms of talent.. Sure he's a weaker defender but he projects to be better on offense. Lowry was a fringe All-Star who was consistently a top 5-10 pg in this league.. I don't see why fvv can't push himself from top 15 pg to top 10 or higher considering they are similarly talented, equally athletic and bring the same intangibles of work ethic, leadership and IQ

Nope. Ill start by saying I like FVV and hope he sticks around as a gunner off the bench (/ finish games) because he is good at it. He has 6moty potential in that role imo but he is not / nor will ever be a starting pg of Lowry's quality. That they are a similar size and are outside threats is where the comparison ends. Lowry brings intangibles FVV doesn't even see atm and their game is completely different.

I would take any of these pg's over FVV in a heartbeat and then we are excluding any pg's that will enter the league in the next
couple of years (where all of these guys listed should still be in the NBA, bar Lowry, and maybe Kyrie because he seems to be injury prone). League is full of talented pg's these days.

Lowry
Dame
Westbrook
Lillard
Irving
Walker
Simmons
Mitchell
Steph
Fox
Morant
RJ
Shai
Russell
T Young
Jamaal Murray

[SHFT]

It's funny because of all the Celtics trash.

I think Ainge screwed up big time. BIG time. He had so many damn assets, like we're talking about a kings ransom.

What he got in return is Jaylen Brown, Tatum, and .. Kemba Walker in free agency?

He could've traded a lot of the stuff Boston had for a chance at Kyrie and Kawhi or Anthony Davis. I'm sure Kawhi would've at least stayed a year or two in Boston, seeing how they're NBA's princess franchise.

That being said, even if they didn't trade for Anthony Davis or Kawhi, there where a lot of players to be had that could've made the Celtics a championship team.

For instance, they could've swung for a Westbrook, maybe throw that sh*t load of draft picks for a Bradley Beal.

I just am not sold at the mental toughness of both Tatum and Brown. Kemba's obviously a baller, but I feel he suffers from the same thing a guy like Lowry does, which is his height makes him not as impactful.

Yeah man I completely agree with you. They have a little bit of their initial warchest left but their best bet now is Brown and Tatum turn into super studs. Also, bringing Kyrie on that team was a terrible mistake. They already showed they had the talent to compete. Imagine a team where Tatum and Brown get a couple of years with the green light (like Demar) so they can develop and THEN Davis gets traded there?

Insta Dynasty.

The entire Atlantic Division collectively dodged a GIGANTIC bullet. Tatum and Brown dont scare me. Kemba will just be a less crazy Kyrie and he doesnt help Tatum or Browns need to have the ball in their hands so its largely a lateral move imo. They needed a passing pg.

Their highest iq player in Horford got the **** out.

[YogurtProducer]

Okay? Good thing we’re talking about the past and present.

If his prime is a solid starting PGZ that’s no where near Lowrys all-nba caliber peak nor his current all star caliber.

1. Solid nba players is what all those role players project to be.. Your point that they are "miles" better than fvv doesn't hold water.
2. Fvv at worst is a solid starting pg (top 15) in his prime.. He is not far from Lowry in terms of talent.. Sure he's a weaker defender but he projects to be better on offense. Lowry was a fringe All-Star who was consistently a top 5-10 pg in this league.. I don't see why fvv can't push himself from top 15 pg to top 10 or higher considering they are similarly talented, equally athletic and bring the same intangibles of work ethic, leadership and IQ

Nope. Ill start by saying I like FVV and hope he sticks around as a gunner off the bench (/ finish games) because he is good at it. He has 6moty potential in that role imo but he is not / nor will ever be a starting pg of Lowry's quality. That they are a similar size and are outside threats is where the comparison ends. Lowry brings intangibles FVV doesn't even see atm and their game is completely different.

I would take any of these pg's over FVV in a heartbeat and then we are excluding any pg's that will enter the league in the next
couple of years (where all of these guys listed should still be in the NBA, bar Lowry, and maybe Kyrie because he seems to be injury prone). League is full of talented pg's these days.

Lowry
Dame
Westbrook
Lillard
Irving
Walker
Simmons
Mitchell
Steph
Fox
Morant
RJ
Shai
Russell
T Young
Jamaal Murray

The list of PGs better than FVV is much larger than this

[vbmeer]

Chris Paul, Conley, Jrue Holliday, Brogdon.

The median of FVV was arguments of whether Delon Wright should actually be the backup PG, with FVV at SG.

Not the highs of a 9 game stretch of catch and shoot open shots due to either ball movement or Kawhi kick outs, or the lows being unplayable against teams with length and people guarding him to the point where he couldn't even get his shot off rather than leaving him open.

[ImaBeatDatAzz]

So like... if a Celtics team with Donovan Mitchell and Myles turner and brad Stevens 2.0 as the coach, struggles this badly in FIBA, how will the actual Celtics team do in the nba... smh