Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

gambitx777 · Post #721 » by **gambitx777** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:10 am

eric gordon just got a 4 year 75+ mill extension, WTF . . . . . .

gambitx777 · Post #722 » by **gambitx777** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:39 am

Plus boogie has a domestic abuse warrant out on him. Lakers Re sure to cut him. Melo?

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Post #723 » by **nate33** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:33 pm

gambitx777 wrote:eric gordon just got a 4 year 75+ mill extension, WTF . . . . . .

The last year is only guaranteed if Gordan makes an ASG or Houston wins a title. So it's really a 3 year deal at $19M per year. I don't think that's all that unreasonable, particularly for an over-the-cap team who has no realistic way of replacing him if he walks in free agency.

Gordon is an underrated defender who usually has to defend the opposition's best guard. And Gordon usually plays well in the playoffs.

gambitx777 · Post #724 » by **gambitx777** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:39 pm

With an injury history who is aging. Yes I agree they didn't have many options. But man 19 mill a year....for Gordon is steep !

nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:eric gordon just got a 4 year 75+ mill extension, WTF . . . . . .

The last year is only guaranteed if Gordan makes an ASG or Houston wins a title. So it's really a 3 year deal at $19M per year. I don't think that's all that unreasonable, particularly for an over-the-cap team who has no realistic way of replacing him if he walks in free agency.

Gordon is an underrated defender who usually has to defend the opposition's best guard. And Gordon usually plays well in the playoffs.

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payitforward · Post #725 » by **payitforward** » Thu Sep 5, 2019 1:19 pm

Bol Bol, once expected to be a mid-lottery pick, was just signed by Denver to a 2-way deal. Wow....

Post #726 » by **nate33** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:33 pm

Detroit signs Joe Johnson to a partially guaranteed deal.

If Johnson makes the team, they'll have to cut Christian Wood. From the article:

With the addition, the Pistons likely will end up with a two-way competition for the 15th roster spot, between center Christian Wood and Johnson. Michael Beasley, who had been with the team for workouts a few weeks ago, did not sign an official contract so he did not need to be waived, a source told The News.

According to ESPN’s Bobby Marks, Johnson’s contract has an initial guarantee of $220,000 and becomes fully guaranteed for $2.56 million — with a salary-cap impact of $1.6 million — if Johnson is on the roster after Jan. 7. Johnson's partial guarantee gives the Pistons flexibility in case they choose Wood — who has a guarantee of $822,000 on Oct. 23, the first day of the regular season — instead.

What we really need is to get that injury roster exception for Wall. Then we can add Christian Wood without having to cut Jones.

payitforward · Post #727 » by **payitforward** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:45 pm

?? I think we are at 16 right now -- i.e. the injury exception would let us keep Jones. Adding Christian Wood would require us to cut someone, no?

It's interesting that we still don't have a 2d 2-way player signed: that might indicate that we intend to put Jones or Robinson into that kind of deal.

Just speculation on my part....

edit: ...or we could sign Wood 2-way w/ a silent promise to his agent that we'll convert him later in the season (or maybe even a promise for next year...)?

Post #728 » by **nate33** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:26 pm

payitforward wrote:?? I think we are at 16 right now -- i.e. the injury exception would let us keep Jones. Adding Christian Wood would require us to cut someone, no?

It's interesting that we still don't have a 2d 2-way player signed: that might indicate that we intend to put Jones or Robinson into that kind of deal.

Just speculation on my part....

edit: ...or we could sign Wood 2-way w/ a silent promise to his agent that we'll convert him later in the season (or maybe even a promise for next year...)?

What would probably make the most sense from an on-the-court standpoint is to move Justin Robinson onto a 2-way deal. He's not going to see minutes behind Ish, Isaiah (and Troy) anyhow, unless there are injuries or garbage time. McRae and Jones could actually fill important roles on the 2nd unit.

I'm not sure it's possible to demote Robinson though. I guess we'd have to cut him, pay the $250K that was guaranteed, and then resign him on a 2-way.

Even better would be to cut Wagner, but we know that's not going to happen. I'd also explore trading Bonga for a future pick, or in a 2 for 1 trade where we get an upgrade, but that's difficult because most other teams are running out of roster spots as well.

payitforward · Post #729 » by **payitforward** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:09 pm

Makes some sense. But...

In the end, when I consider the value of any individual on our roster, I have to give a lot of extra weight to potential future value. I.e. someone whose presence means we win an extra couple of games this season, but who has zero value lets say 2 years from now, doesn't get much from me for his present value. Salary is part of the calculation of course.

Obviously, the poster child for low future value is Ian Mahinmi. C.J. Miles comes next. IMO, Jordan McRae finishes 3d from the POV.

Now... we could simply cut Mahinmi, eat the $15.5m he costs, be at 12 guaranteed players, & then keep all 3 of Jones, McRae & Robinson. Weirdly, we have the ability to chuck this huge contract with almost no effect on our salary load.

I.e. all it would cost is the $988K of Robinson's salary. Since we owe him $250K in any case, it's even less. If one preferred to think of it as the chance to keep Jones or McRae (i.e. assuming we'd be keeping Robinson anyway), it's still only a little over $1m added salary, & we're still under the tax.

The obvious objection is --- who's playing back up Center? Yet, Ian played only 498 minutes last year. In fact, Mahinmi, Howard, Portis & Smith combined last year for only 1626 minutes.

If we assume we'd like Bryant to play 900 more minutes than the 1496 he logged last year, that does leave a hole, to be sure, but it's not all that big.

Now, cutting Mahinmi would work a lot better if Wood were available to sign in his place -- which would once again leave us needing to cut one of Jones/McRae/Robinson. Unless we get the exception for John.

In short, from my POV, if we get the exception, & Wood is available, it makes perfecct sense & costs next to nothing to sign him & cut Mahinmi.

Am I missing something here?

Actually, this is in altogether the wrong thread. Plus, I think it might be worth its own discussion in the Mahinmi thread -- if I can find it. So... look for this elsewhere in a few minutes

Post #730 » by **Ruzious** » Tue Oct 1, 2019 10:34 pm

Speaking of other teams moves, the Hornets have become the most fun team to follow, but there's another team that's right up there with them - Memphis. Apparently JJJ has grown - he's now 6'11 barefoot (measured about 6'9 at the combine?). So, now they have a bigger JJJ, an enormous and skilled Jonas V, Brandon Phenom Clarke, and the keys have been given to Ja Morant. They can play huge, and they can play small.

payitforward · Post #731 » by **payitforward** » Tue Oct 1, 2019 11:05 pm

Agreed -- Memphis is going to be an extremely interesting team this year!

But, Ruz, I'm curious -- what are you finding so interesting about the Hornets?

Post #732 » by **Ruzious** » Wed Oct 2, 2019 7:16 pm

payitforward wrote:Agreed -- Memphis is going to be an extremely interesting team this year!

But, Ruz, I'm curious -- what are you finding so interesting about the Hornets?

Sorry - I meant the Pelicans. I can never get used to that name. Yeah, the Hornets are likely going to be awful, imo.

Illmatic12 · Post #733 » by **Illmatic12** » Wed Oct 2, 2019 9:00 pm

Ruzious wrote:Speaking of other teams moves, the Hornets have become the most fun team to follow, but there's another team that's right up there with them - Memphis. Apparently JJJ has grown - he's now 6'11 barefoot (measured about 6'9 at the combine?). So, now they have a bigger JJJ, an enormous and skilled Jonas V, Brandon Phenom Clarke, and the keys have been given to Ja Morant. They can play huge, and they can play small.

The Grizz are going to be an ugly watch imo. Ja is a rookie point guard with a shaky jumper, meaning a lot of 4-14 shooting nights and turnovers while learning how to run an NBA team.

Also I didn't realize they were 26th in rebounding last season - that's why they won't actually be a good defensive team for now. For how promising he is in most other areas, JJJ is an awful rebounder for his position which is probably why they'll be playing JV/JJJ frontcourt instead of running him at the 5.

Memphis will be interesting in a few years if they can land Anthony Edwards in the draft. This year they look like a toothless ~15-25 win team

pancakes3 · Post #734 » by **pancakes3** » Wed Oct 2, 2019 9:14 pm

on paper i'm much more interested in seeing how garland pans out but lol @ having a rooting interest in anything Cleveland.

if i'm going to have an "other" team to have a passive interest in, it's going to be the Kings again.

payitforward · Post #735 » by **payitforward** » Thu Oct 3, 2019 12:08 am

I don't know how Memphis will do this year as far as wins/losses go, not well I'm sure, but all the same they had an absolutely great off season.

As they go into camp, the Grizzlies have 11 new players with guaranteed contracts: Ja Morant, Andre Iguodala, Solomon Hill, Miles Plumlee, Tyus Jones, Jae Crowder, Josh Jackson, Marko Guduric, Brandon Clarke, Grayson Allen & De'Anthony Melton. The only guys retained from last year, w/ guaranteed contracts, are Valanciunas, JJJ, Kyle Anderson & Dillon Brooks. (They also have Caboclo, Ivan Rabb & Matt Mooney with non-guaranteed contracts & have signed Yuta Watanabe & John Konchar to 2-way contracts.)

Memphis got a 1-year look at Jackson along with Melton & 2 second round Suns picks for Jevon Carter & Kyle Korver. The Suns bought out Korver. What a mess Phoenix is!

If Clarke plays a lot -- which seems likely -- I don't think they'll be at the bottom of the league in rebounding again!

payitforward · Post #736 » by **payitforward** » Thu Oct 3, 2019 12:17 am

Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:Agreed -- Memphis is going to be an extremely interesting team this year!

But, Ruz, I'm curious -- what are you finding so interesting about the Hornets?

Sorry - I meant the Pelicans. I can never get used to that name. Yeah, the Hornets are likely going to be awful, imo.

Right, team names have gotten weird from teams moving around -- strangest of all, obviously, has to be the Utah Jazz! Yet, I've gotten used to it. Even the LA Clippers makes no sense -- San Diego is a naval base, so the name was fine when they were there.

Then there's the oldest of the weirdnesses: the Los Angeles Lakers!! I'm guessing that I'm the only one here who is old enough to remember the Minneapolis Lakers & George Mikan (I barely do!).

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #737 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Thu Oct 3, 2019 8:17 am

payitforward wrote:I don't know how Memphis will do this year as far as wins/losses go, not well I'm sure, but all the same they had an absolutely great off season.

As they go into camp, the Grizzlies have 11 new players with guaranteed contracts: Ja Morant, Andre Iguodala, Solomon Hill, Miles Plumlee, Tyus Jones, Jae Crowder, Josh Jackson, Marko Guduric, Brandon Clarke, Grayson Allen & De'Anthony Melton. The only guys retained from last year, w/ guaranteed contracts, are Valanciunas, JJJ, Kyle Anderson & Dillon Brooks. (They also have Caboclo, Ivan Rabb & Matt Mooney with non-guaranteed contracts & have signed Yuta Watanabe & John Konchar to 2-way contracts.)

Memphis got a 1-year look at Jackson along with Melton & 2 second round Suns picks for Jevon Carter & Kyle Korver. The Suns bought out Korver. What a mess Phoenix is!

If Clarke plays a lot -- which seems likely -- I don't think they'll be at the bottom of the league in rebounding again!

Playoffs.

That's a playoff roster that Memphis has.

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Post #738 » by **LyricalRico** » Thu Oct 3, 2019 5:50 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
payitforward wrote:I don't know how Memphis will do this year as far as wins/losses go, not well I'm sure, but all the same they had an absolutely great off season.

As they go into camp, the Grizzlies have 11 new players with guaranteed contracts: Ja Morant, Andre Iguodala, Solomon Hill, Miles Plumlee, Tyus Jones, Jae Crowder, Josh Jackson, Marko Guduric, Brandon Clarke, Grayson Allen & De'Anthony Melton. The only guys retained from last year, w/ guaranteed contracts, are Valanciunas, JJJ, Kyle Anderson & Dillon Brooks. (They also have Caboclo, Ivan Rabb & Matt Mooney with non-guaranteed contracts & have signed Yuta Watanabe & John Konchar to 2-way contracts.)

Memphis got a 1-year look at Jackson along with Melton & 2 second round Suns picks for Jevon Carter & Kyle Korver. The Suns bought out Korver. What a mess Phoenix is!

If Clarke plays a lot -- which seems likely -- I don't think they'll be at the bottom of the league in rebounding again!
Playoffs.

That's a playoff roster that Memphis has.

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The new Memphis roster seems like the kind that would be easy to root for if you're a fan, but the best players on their roster would be role players on better teams. They've got tough guys who will defend and fight for every possession, but who carries the offense? Does Iggy even play for them at all? I see them being a tough matchup most nights (especially at home where role players usually play better), but ultimately losing more than they win.

payitforward · Post #739 » by **payitforward** » Thu Oct 3, 2019 6:17 pm

Well, what did they win last year, 25 games? They can lose more than they win this year & still be on the way to a huge turnaround!

I_Like_Dirt · Post #740 » by **I_Like_Dirt** » Thu Oct 3, 2019 6:18 pm

LyricalRico wrote:The new Memphis roster seems like the kind that would be easy to root for if you're a fan, but the best players on their roster would be role players on better teams. They've got tough guys who will defend and fight for every possession, but who carries the offense? Does Iggy even play for them at all? I see them being a tough matchup most nights (especially at home where role players usually play better), but ultimately losing more than they win.

Yeah, I don't see them as a playoff team. I think they'll be more competitive than some teams think. I expect they're going to tank a bit this season to keep their pick and make a play to turn things around next season and that Celtics pick of theirs won't look as good. They're in a solid position to do just that this season, too. Morant should be good but he's still a rookie. Same goes for Clarke. JJJ, Valanciunas and Clarke is the makings of a solid frontcourt, though. Morant looks like an anchor offensive player. And they've got some utility players like Anderson, Jones and Caboclo hanging around. They don't have a lot of depth or experience yet but they'll turn things around sooner or later. They seem a little like the Hawks were last season - good and exciting with the potential to add a bit more and continue punching up over the next couple season.