Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: It's B-ball Time !!!

[Knightro]

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[Ducklett]

MP Jr didn't play at all and really does not Nuggets all that much or they need him to pan out.

In my initial post i said i belive it's Bamba, Frank Ntilikina or Knox, but ezzzp was right when he posted transcript about that player not playing much, that takes Knox out. List of players drafted in lottery in last 5 years who didn't turn in something good and still are on same team is pretty thin.

Not about Bamba either. Firstly because Zach Lowe isn't the type to declare anybody a bust after 1 year, and I think this line in particular....

Zach Lowe (at 23:27): "The sunk cost thing, I literally in the past few days have been talking to someone with a team who in the last - lets say 5 years has drafted a player...the player has not worked out...the player still has trade value because people are curious about this player, hasn't played much - maybe for whatever reason...and someone wants to trade this player, we should jump on that because it hasn't worked out so let's get something...and some of the stakeholders are so invested in this players success having selected him that its a non-starter in the organization...so I think the most likely outcome is he fails again and has no more trade value so they're going to miss an opportunity...its not going to be a big opportunity, its not like they're going to get huge amounts for this player, its just made me think of all of this stuff"

That would be a lot of proclamations for Bamba since he was getting steady minutes even when he wasn't playing well (even for a rookie), but he was showing positive signs before injury. Just doesn't make sense as a Zach Lowe thing to say firstly, to declare someone a non-starter after 1 year and also say the player "isn't playing, for whatever reason", Bamba clearly was playing and then not playing after getting injured, so that was his excuse because Clifford was giving him solid minutes, and his play was trending up those weeks prior to the injury.

I'd bet money he's talking about Malik Monk. Fits the criteria of being an interesting prospect still to some people, hasn't started for whatever reason, and barely averages over 18 minutes a game while getting his minutes wildly thrown around.

It may be possible that he is just quoting his source though, about “Bamba” not playing much. When you consider that he didn’t really play a lot of games, and when he did, it was mostly limited minutes.

My hunch is Knox though.

It would be sad if it’s Bamba. WeHam should have learnt by now, with what happened with ... who they ended up trading only for peanuts.


Again, this just brings out the Jerry West approach is correct in trading young players early, if they are showing red flags, because chances of them turning things around is slim, and no one else has better inside information about a player than their current team itself. Something West did with Drew Gooden, and replicated by Hinkie by trading MCW. lol.

I honestly doubt it’s bamba. I may be wrong, but there is really limited amount of minutes to conclude on Bamba. But then again, what do I know. I’m not working for the team. Lol

Like when we traded those bums Tobias Harris and Victor Oladipo before the league realized they were garbage.

[pepe1991]

Not about Bamba either. Firstly because Zach Lowe isn't the type to declare anybody a bust after 1 year, and I think this line in particular....

Zach Lowe (at 23:27): "The sunk cost thing, I literally in the past few days have been talking to someone with a team who in the last - lets say 5 years has drafted a player...the player has not worked out...the player still has trade value because people are curious about this player, hasn't played much - maybe for whatever reason...and someone wants to trade this player, we should jump on that because it hasn't worked out so let's get something...and some of the stakeholders are so invested in this players success having selected him that its a non-starter in the organization...so I think the most likely outcome is he fails again and has no more trade value so they're going to miss an opportunity...its not going to be a big opportunity, its not like they're going to get huge amounts for this player, its just made me think of all of this stuff"

That would be a lot of proclamations for Bamba since he was getting steady minutes even when he wasn't playing well (even for a rookie), but he was showing positive signs before injury. Just doesn't make sense as a Zach Lowe thing to say firstly, to declare someone a non-starter after 1 year and also say the player "isn't playing, for whatever reason", Bamba clearly was playing and then not playing after getting injured, so that was his excuse because Clifford was giving him solid minutes, and his play was trending up those weeks prior to the injury.

I'd bet money he's talking about Malik Monk. Fits the criteria of being an interesting prospect still to some people, hasn't started for whatever reason, and barely averages over 18 minutes a game while getting his minutes wildly thrown around.

It may be possible that he is just quoting his source though, about “Bamba” not playing much. When you consider that he didn’t really play a lot of games, and when he did, it was mostly limited minutes.

My hunch is Knox though.

It would be sad if it’s Bamba. WeHam should have learnt by now, with what happened with ... who they ended up trading only for peanuts.


Again, this just brings out the Jerry West approach is correct in trading young players early, if they are showing red flags, because chances of them turning things around is slim, and no one else has better inside information about a player than their current team itself. Something West did with Drew Gooden, and replicated by Hinkie by trading MCW. lol.

I honestly doubt it’s bamba. I may be wrong, but there is really limited amount of minutes to conclude on Bamba. But then again, what do I know. I’m not working for the team. Lol

Like when we traded those bums Tobias Harris and Victor Oladipo before the league realized they were garbage.

Or.. holding onto this star duo until their value was zero



btw Harris averaged 17 ppg for Magic during his second year, Oladipo averaged 18 a game in second year. I highly doubt Bamba , Ntkilina or whoever that post was about will average 18 a game any time soon. Probably ever.

[fendilim]

Not about Bamba either. Firstly because Zach Lowe isn't the type to declare anybody a bust after 1 year, and I think this line in particular....

Zach Lowe (at 23:27): "The sunk cost thing, I literally in the past few days have been talking to someone with a team who in the last - lets say 5 years has drafted a player...the player has not worked out...the player still has trade value because people are curious about this player, hasn't played much - maybe for whatever reason...and someone wants to trade this player, we should jump on that because it hasn't worked out so let's get something...and some of the stakeholders are so invested in this players success having selected him that its a non-starter in the organization...so I think the most likely outcome is he fails again and has no more trade value so they're going to miss an opportunity...its not going to be a big opportunity, its not like they're going to get huge amounts for this player, its just made me think of all of this stuff"

That would be a lot of proclamations for Bamba since he was getting steady minutes even when he wasn't playing well (even for a rookie), but he was showing positive signs before injury. Just doesn't make sense as a Zach Lowe thing to say firstly, to declare someone a non-starter after 1 year and also say the player "isn't playing, for whatever reason", Bamba clearly was playing and then not playing after getting injured, so that was his excuse because Clifford was giving him solid minutes, and his play was trending up those weeks prior to the injury.

I'd bet money he's talking about Malik Monk. Fits the criteria of being an interesting prospect still to some people, hasn't started for whatever reason, and barely averages over 18 minutes a game while getting his minutes wildly thrown around.

It may be possible that he is just quoting his source though, about “Bamba” not playing much. When you consider that he didn’t really play a lot of games, and when he did, it was mostly limited minutes.

My hunch is Knox though.

It would be sad if it’s Bamba. WeHam should have learnt by now, with what happened with ... who they ended up trading only for peanuts.


Again, this just brings out the Jerry West approach is correct in trading young players early, if they are showing red flags, because chances of them turning things around is slim, and no one else has better inside information about a player than their current team itself. Something West did with Drew Gooden, and replicated by Hinkie by trading MCW. lol.

I honestly doubt it’s bamba. I may be wrong, but there is really limited amount of minutes to conclude on Bamba. But then again, what do I know. I’m not working for the team. Lol

Like when we traded those bums Tobias Harris and Victor Oladipo before the league realized they were garbage.

meh, ola and tobias showed steady improvements every year they were here. Thats the problem, team held on to the wrong guys. But then again, probably why we never got trade the other was because they probably never had enough value to begin with.

[Ducklett]

It may be possible that he is just quoting his source though, about “Bamba” not playing much. When you consider that he didn’t really play a lot of games, and when he did, it was mostly limited minutes.

My hunch is Knox though.

It would be sad if it’s Bamba. WeHam should have learnt by now, with what happened with ... who they ended up trading only for peanuts.


Again, this just brings out the Jerry West approach is correct in trading young players early, if they are showing red flags, because chances of them turning things around is slim, and no one else has better inside information about a player than their current team itself. Something West did with Drew Gooden, and replicated by Hinkie by trading MCW. lol.

I honestly doubt it’s bamba. I may be wrong, but there is really limited amount of minutes to conclude on Bamba. But then again, what do I know. I’m not working for the team. Lol

Like when we traded those bums Tobias Harris and Victor Oladipo before the league realized they were garbage.

Or.. holding onto this star duo until their value was zero



btw Harris averaged 17 ppg for Magic during his second year, Oladipo averaged 18 a game in second year. I highly doubt Bamba , Ntkilina or whoever that post was about will average 18 a game any time soon. Probably ever.

Could any rookie or soph coming off the bench for 10 minutes a night on a squad trying to playoffs average 18 a game? You are talking about guys on losing basketball games being given nearly as many shots as they wanted. Seems like a silly assertion.

[pepe1991]

Like when we traded those bums Tobias Harris and Victor Oladipo before the league realized they were garbage.

Or.. holding onto this star duo until their value was zero



btw Harris averaged 17 ppg for Magic during his second year, Oladipo averaged 18 a game in second year. I highly doubt Bamba , Ntkilina or whoever that post was about will average 18 a game any time soon. Probably ever.

Could any rookie or soph coming off the bench for 10 minutes a night on a squad trying to playoffs average 18 a game? You are talking about guys on losing basketball games being given nearly as many shots as they wanted. Seems like a silly assertion.

Bamba was terrible comming off bench in limited min. Jamal Crawford in whole league was only player who played more games with worst net rating . Jamal is also 39 years old.
Magic playoff hope started once Bamba was lost. They were on pace to 30-33 wins with him playing as backup.
You are entitled to belive in what you want, but based on evidence, granted limited one, Bamba was one of Magic worst lottery rookies ever. For comparison, Hezonja had -0,1 net rating in rookie year and he is one of Magic worst lottery picks.
I mean there is always Vasquez to crown as the worst but hey...

Can he improve? I don't think anybody ever said he can't, but with Vučević taking 30-33 mpg all Bamba will ever be left with for next 2,3 years is 14-18 mpg if he can be better than Birch , if not, he is bound for DNP season. Look at Maker and his career, he was aslo lottery pick drafted for same skills Bamba supposed to have.

[Catledge]

Or.. holding onto this star duo until their value was zero



btw Harris averaged 17 ppg for Magic during his second year, Oladipo averaged 18 a game in second year. I highly doubt Bamba , Ntkilina or whoever that post was about will average 18 a game any time soon. Probably ever.

Could any rookie or soph coming off the bench for 10 minutes a night on a squad trying to playoffs average 18 a game? You are talking about guys on losing basketball games being given nearly as many shots as they wanted. Seems like a silly assertion.

Bamba was terrible comming off bench in limited min. Jamal Crawford in whole league was only player who played more games with worst net rating . Jamal is also 39 years old.
Magic playoff hope started once Bamba was lost. They were on pace to 30-33 wins with him playing as backup.
You are entitled to belive in what you want, but based on evidence, granted limited one, Bamba was one of Magic worst lottery rookies ever. For comparison, Hezonja had -0,1 net rating in rookie year and he is one of Magic worst lottery picks.
I mean there is always Vasquez to crown as the worst but hey...

Can he improve? I don't think anybody ever said he can't, but with Vučević taking 30-33 mpg all Bamba will ever be left with for next 2,3 years is 14-18 mpg if he can be better than Birch , if not, he is bound for DNP season. Look at Maker and his career, he was aslo lottery pick drafted for same skills Bamba supposed to have.

I don't really disagree with your general assessment of how poorly Bamba played last year, and while I'm less pessimistic about his future than you are, I agree that he is unlikely to play at a starter's level this season.

Having said that, I think there are significant differences between his situation and those of Payton and Hezonja. Bamba will not be handed a high-usage starter's role like Payton was (I argued that this was a mistake back when it was happening), and while people are free to argue that rookie Bamba was as bad as rookie Hezonja was (really really bad), Hezo playing even worse his second year (as opposed to simply not improving on his already very poor play) is so unusual that it seems a stretch to point to as a predictive example.

I guess what I'm getting at, Pepe, is that I'm not really sure what your primary complaint is. If you're saying that the Magic shouldn't set up a roster that depends on production from Bamba, the team has done that. If you are saying that he shouldn't get a big role on the team, he is unlikely to get that. If you are saying that he shouldn't have been drafted, ok I guess, but if we had drafted Sexton or SGA, either of them would be in a similar situation as Bamba right now, competing for backup minutes against a lower-ceiling player who might be better this year.

If you are just looking to vent, I can respect that. But if you have a specific course of action you're calling for with respect to Bamba, I'm not sure I see what that is.

[pepe1991]

Could any rookie or soph coming off the bench for 10 minutes a night on a squad trying to playoffs average 18 a game? You are talking about guys on losing basketball games being given nearly as many shots as they wanted. Seems like a silly assertion.

Bamba was terrible comming off bench in limited min. Jamal Crawford in whole league was only player who played more games with worst net rating . Jamal is also 39 years old.
Magic playoff hope started once Bamba was lost. They were on pace to 30-33 wins with him playing as backup.
You are entitled to belive in what you want, but based on evidence, granted limited one, Bamba was one of Magic worst lottery rookies ever. For comparison, Hezonja had -0,1 net rating in rookie year and he is one of Magic worst lottery picks.
I mean there is always Vasquez to crown as the worst but hey...

Can he improve? I don't think anybody ever said he can't, but with Vučević taking 30-33 mpg all Bamba will ever be left with for next 2,3 years is 14-18 mpg if he can be better than Birch , if not, he is bound for DNP season. Look at Maker and his career, he was aslo lottery pick drafted for same skills Bamba supposed to have.

I don't really disagree with your general assessment of how poorly Bamba played last year, and while I'm less pessimistic about his future than you are, I agree that he is unlikely to play at a starter's level this season.

Having said that, I think there are significant differences between his situation and those of Payton and Hezonja. Bamba will not be handed a high-usage starter's role like Payton was (I argued that this was a mistake back when it was happening), and while people are free to argue that rookie Bamba was as bad as rookie Hezonja was (really really bad), Hezo playing even worse his second year (as opposed to simply not improving on his already very poor play) is so unusual that it seems a stretch to point to as a predictive example.

I guess what I'm getting at, Pepe, is that I'm not really sure what your primary complaint is. If you're saying that the Magic shouldn't set up a roster that depends on production from Bamba, the team has done that. If you are saying that he shouldn't get a big role on the team, he is unlikely to get that. If you are saying that he shouldn't have been drafted, ok I guess, but if we had drafted Sexton or SGA, either of them would be in a similar situation as Bamba right now, competing for backup minutes against a lower-ceiling player who might be better this year.

If you are just looking to vent, I can respect that. But if you have a specific course of action you're calling for with respect to Bamba, I'm not sure I see what that is.

I really didn't complain about anything, just pointed he played poorly. And disagreed with Harris/Oladipo comparison from value of asset perspective.
Whole thread turned into " could it be Bamba" on things Lowe said about some front office

[rcklsscognition]

Out of all the guys we've brought in since Dwight left, Bamba will have it the hardest. He's got to get time over an actual all-star. The other scrubs we had struggled to get minutes over other scrubs. Do you envision anyone other than a fanboy getting to a point where we are like, Bamba is playing so well right now, don't sub Vuc back in?

[basketballRob]

It may be possible that he is just quoting his source though, about “Bamba” not playing much. When you consider that he didn’t really play a lot of games, and when he did, it was mostly limited minutes.

My hunch is Knox though.

It would be sad if it’s Bamba. WeHam should have learnt by now, with what happened with ... who they ended up trading only for peanuts.


Again, this just brings out the Jerry West approach is correct in trading young players early, if they are showing red flags, because chances of them turning things around is slim, and no one else has better inside information about a player than their current team itself. Something West did with Drew Gooden, and replicated by Hinkie by trading MCW. lol.

I honestly doubt it’s bamba. I may be wrong, but there is really limited amount of minutes to conclude on Bamba. But then again, what do I know. I’m not working for the team. Lol

Like when we traded those bums Tobias Harris and Victor Oladipo before the league realized they were garbage.

Or.. holding onto this star duo until their value was zero



btw Harris averaged 17 ppg for Magic during his second year, Oladipo averaged 18 a game in second year. I highly doubt Bamba , Ntkilina or whoever that post was about will average 18 a game any time soon. Probably ever.

Oladipo was like 23 his second year. Bamba will be 21 this year, the same age as Vucevic's rookie year.

Assuming Vucevic is traded by next season, I could see Bamba averaging 15 pts 11 rebs and 3 blks in 32 mpg.

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[pepe1991]

Like when we traded those bums Tobias Harris and Victor Oladipo before the league realized they were garbage.

Or.. holding onto this star duo until their value was zero



btw Harris averaged 17 ppg for Magic during his second year, Oladipo averaged 18 a game in second year. I highly doubt Bamba , Ntkilina or whoever that post was about will average 18 a game any time soon. Probably ever.

Oladipo was like 23 his second year. Bamba will be 21 this year, the same age as Vucevic's rookie year.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Oladipo was 22 in second year.
Tobias was 20 in second year.
Bamba will be 21.

It's irrelevant difference.

[MoMM]

Like when we traded those bums Tobias Harris and Victor Oladipo before the league realized they were garbage.

Or.. holding onto this star duo until their value was zero



btw Harris averaged 17 ppg for Magic during his second year, Oladipo averaged 18 a game in second year. I highly doubt Bamba , Ntkilina or whoever that post was about will average 18 a game any time soon. Probably ever.

Oladipo was like 23 his second year. Bamba will be 21 this year, the same age as Vucevic's rookie year.

Assuming Vucevic is traded by next season, I could see Bamba averaging 15 pts 11 rebs and 3 blks in 32 mpg.

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Nice, so you predicting that Bamba will be the next D12 next season, it seems realistic.

[VFX]

I don’t really get the disconnect going on here with this Bamba argument. Lowe could easily be talking about a number of other players. That being said...

Could he get MUCH better? Yes.
Is he still extremely raw as a player? Yes.
Is he a bad player? No.

The point is that Bamba is fighting for minutes behind Orlando’s highest usage player in Vuc at 28% (Ross comes in next at 24%) and a very serviceable backup in Birch. Not only that, but Orlando could also fill Aminu or Isaac in at C if they wanted to run smaller.

Drafting Bamba at #6 has already proven to be a bad investment with that information alone. Why? Because the likelihood he improves in Orlando with that minutes log is extremely unlikely against the value SGA, Sexton, Knox, or Bridges would have offered. Orlando gifting Vuc his latest contract all but negates Bamba’s future effectiveness here playing a position that has the least amount of flexibility or importance in roster construction.

[basketballRob]

Or.. holding onto this star duo until their value was zero



btw Harris averaged 17 ppg for Magic during his second year, Oladipo averaged 18 a game in second year. I highly doubt Bamba , Ntkilina or whoever that post was about will average 18 a game any time soon. Probably ever.

Oladipo was like 23 his second year. Bamba will be 21 this year, the same age as Vucevic's rookie year.

Assuming Vucevic is traded by next season, I could see Bamba averaging 15 pts 11 rebs and 3 blks in 32 mpg.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Nice, so you predicting that Bamba will be the next D12 next season, it seems realistic.

Last year he averaged 13 pts 11 rebs 3 blks per 36 mpg.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[basketballRob]

Or.. holding onto this star duo until their value was zero



btw Harris averaged 17 ppg for Magic during his second year, Oladipo averaged 18 a game in second year. I highly doubt Bamba , Ntkilina or whoever that post was about will average 18 a game any time soon. Probably ever.

Oladipo was like 23 his second year. Bamba will be 21 this year, the same age as Vucevic's rookie year.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Oladipo was 22 in second year.
Tobias was 20 in second year.
Bamba will be 21.

It's irrelevant difference.

They played on garbage teams, where they got a bunch of playing time and usage.



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[Ducklett]

Trade Bamba, don't trade Bamba, I don't care either way. But suggesting he is as bad as Mario is a bit silly.

[ezzzp]

Bamba should win the back up role, but its not going to be a cakewalk for him. Birch is going to force Bamba to fight tooth-and-nail for that primary back up spot. He'll have to bring it every day and keep doing it all year. That is exactly what you want for player development.

My hope is that he plays around 1200-1400 healthy minutes of high energy / low mistake basketball this season.

[Gomagic44]

I am happy for our unit cohesion. We are heading into another year with largely the same group that made it to the playoffs last year plus another solid contributor in Aminu. Bambas growth is a potential positive for this season but inconsequential overall if he underperforms.

Obviously I would hope he gets better if only to be an asset, but we are in a happier place than we were any other offseason in a loooong time.

And my daughter is going to be born likely the same week the season starts!

Let’s go Magic!


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[fendilim]

Like when we traded those bums Tobias Harris and Victor Oladipo before the league realized they were garbage.

Or.. holding onto this star duo until their value was zero



btw Harris averaged 17 ppg for Magic during his second year, Oladipo averaged 18 a game in second year. I highly doubt Bamba , Ntkilina or whoever that post was about will average 18 a game any time soon. Probably ever.

Oladipo was like 23 his second year. Bamba will be 21 this year, the same age as Vucevic's rookie year.

Assuming Vucevic is traded by next season, I could see Bamba averaging 15 pts 11 rebs and 3 blks in 32 mpg.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

what the **** ****

[ezzzp]

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