Why don't we just cut Ian Mahinmi? It costs us nothing...

[payitforward]

I just had an idea. Tell me what you think of it:

Inasmuch as we are going to lose a lot of games this season & not contend for the playoffs -- does it not make sense, when we consider the value of any individual on our roster, to give lot of extra weight to potential future value? Someone whose presence means we win an extra couple of games this season, but who has zero value lets say 2 years from now -- why should we value that guy much if at all?

Obviously, the poster child for low future value is Ian Mahinmi. So... why don't we just cut him? Especially since, weirdly, we have the ability to chuck his huge contract with almost no effect on our salary load.

If we cut Mahinmi & eat the $15.5m he's owed, we'll be at 12 guaranteed players. We can then keep all 3 of Jones, McRae & Robinson. &, all it would cost is the extra $988K of Robinson's salary. In fact, since we owe him $250K in any case, it costs us even less.

Why would we not do this? Well, the obvious objection is --- who's playing back up Center, right?

But, Ian only played 498 minutes last year. In fact, Mahinmi, Howard, Portis & Smith combined last year for only 1626 minutes. Assuming we'd like Bryant to play @ 900 more minutes than the 1496 he logged last year, that still leaves a hole, to be sure, but it's not all that big.

Now, cutting Mahinmi would work a lot better if Christian Wood were available to sign in his place -- which would once again leave us needing to cut one of Jones/McRae/Robinson. Unless we get the exception for John.

But, from my POV, if we do get the exception, & Wood is available, it's a no-brainer to sign him & cut Mahinmi. Assuming, as I think, that we still squeeze just under the tax.

Am I missing something here? What do I have wrong? This seems like a great idea.

[verbal8]

I think thought is he may potentially be useful in a trade as a salary match vs. dead cap space can't be used that way.

[nate33]

I agree with your point, PIF. If Wood is available, cutting Mahinmi to sign him makes perfect sense to me. I'm pretty confident that Wood will be a more effective player than Mahinmi this season.

verbal8 brings up the only real good argument against the move. Mahinmi's salary would be useful ballast if a trade presents itself.

It really boils down to whether management is open-minded to adding a long term piece via trade this year (and presumably sacrificing a future pick in the process). If they're already resolute on keeping the cap situation clear through 2021, then maybe they wouldn't mind dumping Mahinmi now.

[payitforward]

I think thought is he may potentially be useful in a trade as a salary match vs. dead cap space can't be used that way.

Good point. OTOH, don't we still have a salary exception? Plus, that is a big salary to make a trade work unless we take multiple guys or someone with an enormous salary. But, we won't have roster space for multiple guys, & the only big salary we could get back would be another bad one.

All the same, that's one reason to think twice.

Another factor is that in looking at PT last year, I didn't take into account the minutes Jeff Green played -- some of which were as a small-ball Center (anyway as the biggest Wizard on the floor). Yet... Davis Bertans plays virtually the same game as Jeff but a little better. So Green not being here isn't an issue in this.

The other side side of the coin is that we get another player right now: a bird in the hand rather than in the bush.

[nate33]

Good point. OTOH, don't we still have a salary exception? Plus, that is a big salary to make a trade work unless we take multiple guys or someone with an enormous salary. But, we won't have roster space for multiple guys, & the only big salary we could get back would be another bad one.

The biggest exception we have left is the $5M exception generated in the Sato trade. Exceptions have other significant restrictions in that they can't be packaged with other players and you can't use the 125% rule to bring back a larger salary. So that Sato TPE can only bring back a salary $5M or less.

Mahinmi's $15.45M salary could be traded for a contract as big as $19.4M. He could be packaged with another guy, like, say, CJ Miles, and bring back a $30.2M salary.

Obviously, the luxtax is a factor. It is doubtful we would bring back a salary significantly larger than our outgoing salary.

[verbal8]

Basically with CJ Miles and Mahinmi, the Wizards can trade for pretty much any size contract.

Turning Mahinmi's contract into dead cap space, would make it very difficult/involved to acquire any player making more than $10 million - assuming CJ Miles is the only player available to trade as pure cap space.

If the Wizards surprise pleasantly, I could see the contract of Mahinmi as being a way to get a PG who could fill in this season and back-up Wall next season.
If it is a lost season and some space freed up under the luxury tax, Mahinimi might be the contract in exchange for a large one, that could get a pick attached.

[prime1time]

Maybe I'm wrong but isn't it potentially valuable to keep Ian as a trade chip? He is an expiring contract.

Additionally, this isn't really connected to the topic at hand, but is Ian Mahimi's 4 year 64 million dollar deal the worst wizards signing in recent memory? What a disaster!

[queridiculo]

Mahinmi's deal only has value as an expiring contract if you're taking back longterm salary in the transaction.

Sheppard seems to have made a concerted effort to give him salary cap flexibility for 2020, so I doubt he's going to be willing to take back longerm money unless it's for a player that can considerably improve the roster beyond 2020.

What are the chances of something like that coming along?

[daSwami]

bring back Ochefu.

[payitforward]

Thanks for all the responses.

I do not think we are looking for $30m of new players, i.e. veterans to make another pointless run. Maybe if we were 100% certain that Wall would come back as good a player, or better, than he was. Probably not even in that case.

This team is rebuilding. It's not "one tank year & back to how great it was." Do I need to remind anyone: it wasn't great.

I recall Tommy saying "we are going to build this right, patiently." There is no contending team in our near future. Wall is not good enough. Beal is not good enough. No one we add will make that kind of difference. &, no, Giannis is not coming here.

[Illmatic12]

Last season post-trade Brooks played Bryant, Green, Portis at C he really did not want to play Mahinmi at all - he stumbled upon the 5-out offense which really unlocks Beal’s game but it requires pick-and-pop bigs, hence Ian is obsolete on this team.

This season we can expect Bryant and Bertans to get run at the 5 , but when Bertans slides down it leaves us short on PF options ..pretty much just Rui and CJ Miles (who I recall logged playoff mins for Toronto as a PF, his ability to battle bigger guys may be a minor saving grace)

In order to have a functional rotation that can play 5-out small ball , Wash need another PF/C type so that no matter what they won’t have to resort to playing Ian. It appears that the team is giving Mo Wagner a long leash to earn that role from training camp - this will be one of the storylines to watch this fall.

I’ve been low on Wagner based on what I have seen, but he’s still decently young and has only played ~400 career minutes in a terrible development setting. However the team needs him to take a major leap and I’m thinking ~1000 min of competent play. If not it will force them to make a more drastic roster transaction , which could go any number of directions.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Mahinmi's $15.45M salary could be traded for a contract as big as $19.4M. He could be packaged with another guy, like, say, CJ Miles, and bring back a $30.2M salary.

Obviously, the luxtax is a factor. It is doubtful we would bring back a salary significantly larger than our outgoing salary.

It can be looked at in other ways, too, though. If the season goes sour and Beal asks out, Mahinmi could be moved for a worse contract and later picks. Heck, even if Beal doesn't ask out the Wizards could try to move Mahinmi for a two-year contract and some later picks, too, if someone is looking for lux tax savings.

If the season goes well, moving Mahinmi and Miles to OKC for Stephen Adams to offer them some lux tax relief might not be a horrible idea, either. Doesn't have to be that exact trade but the general idea holds.

Alternatively, maybe the season doesn't go well but Mahinmi has a brief window of health as happens on the occasional full moon and the Wizards find a way to trade him for another expiring that costs less, not unlike what the Grizzlies just did with CJ Miles... At that point, it would wind up being potentially quite a bit more savings overall.

I wouldn't be opposed to just letting Ian go but it wouldn't be an automatic for me. His contract represents a significant amount of value in terms of flexibility so I'd want it to be for a player that was of the variety that wasn't available in any given offseason.

[payitforward]

Mahinmi's $15.45M salary could be traded for a contract as big as $19.4M. He could be packaged with another guy, like, say, CJ Miles, and bring back a $30.2M salary.

Obviously, the luxtax is a factor. It is doubtful we would bring back a salary significantly larger than our outgoing salary.

It can be looked at in other ways, too, though. If the season goes sour and Beal asks out, Mahinmi could be moved for a worse contract and later picks. Heck, even if Beal doesn't ask out the Wizards could try to move Mahinmi for a two-year contract and some later picks, too, if someone is looking for lux tax savings.

If the season goes well, moving Mahinmi and Miles to OKC for Stephen Adams to offer them some lux tax relief might not be a horrible idea, either. Doesn't have to be that exact trade but the general idea holds.

Alternatively, maybe the season doesn't go well but Mahinmi has a brief window of health as happens on the occasional full moon and the Wizards find a way to trade him for another expiring that costs less, not unlike what the Grizzlies just did with CJ Miles... At that point, it would wind up being potentially quite a bit more savings overall.

I wouldn't be opposed to just letting Ian go but it wouldn't be an automatic for me. His contract represents a significant amount of value in terms of flexibility so I'd want it to be for a player that was of the variety that wasn't available in any given offseason.

Respectfully, I'm not sure I quite follow most of the above.

1. Why would we want to take on more long-term salary in return for "later picks?" R2 picks can be bought for cash. (I assume you are not thinking someone is going to give us a R1 pick in a deal for Mahinmi -- without us taking on way way too much dead salary)

2. We are under the tax. By the deadline we'll have paid Ian more than 1/2 his salary. A trade for another expiring wouldn't save us much. & we'd have foregone the opportunity to acquire (or keep) another player now (wch comes to us if we cut Mahinmi).

3. Mahinmi/Miles for Adams puts US in the luxury tax! ????

I do get that the value Mahinmi has would have to be in, as you say "flexibility;" I'm just not seeing the flexibility itself. Plus, I don't think there exists that kind of "player... of the variety that wasn't available in any given offseason." That is, every kind of player is available in every off season. Put another way, Mahinmi himself has zero value. If we can add a young player with potential because he's gone, we are ahead.

Plus, that's an actual opportunity right now. Vs. a putative opportunity in February that may not exist.

[verbal8]

3. Mahinmi/Miles for Adams puts US in the luxury tax! ????

I do get that the value Mahinmi has would have to be in, as you say "flexibility;" I'm just not seeing the flexibility itself. Plus, I don't think there exists that kind of "player... of the variety that wasn't available in any given offseason." That is, every kind of player is available in every off season. Put another way, Mahinmi himself has zero value. If we can add a young player with potential because he's gone, we are ahead.

Plus, that's an actual opportunity right now. Vs. a putative opportunity in February that may not exist.

If a Mahinmi/Miles for Adams deal goes down, I think some small salary - say Mo Wagner gets sent out for a TPE with cash - 1/2 way through the season the acquiring team actually could make money on the deal.

[WallToWall]

carry him through the season, up to the trade deadline. There will be one or more teams out there that are not performing to expectations, and have a contract on a reasonably good player that they want to get out of. Mahinmi would be good trade bait. There is value in keeping him, even if all he does a warm the bench.

[nate33]

If the season goes well, moving Mahinmi and Miles to OKC for Stephen Adams to offer them some lux tax relief might not be a horrible idea, either. Doesn't have to be that exact trade but the general idea holds.

I'd be against that move because we're trying to develop Thomas Bryant at the center position. Steven Adams is a very expensive redundancy. Basically, the value of Adams as a player is wasted on us because we have the position filled.

I'd be open to trading Mahinmi and Miles for a bad 2021 contract if we got picks in return, but I think Adams is just good enough that OKC wouldn't sacrifice any decent picks as incentive. It would have to be a 3-way deal where we launder Adams to another team looking to trade a pick and a bad contract to get an upgrade at center.

[payitforward]

carry him through the season, up to the trade deadline. There will be one or more teams out there that are not performing to expectations, and have a contract on a reasonably good player that they want to get out of. Mahinmi would be good trade bait. There is value in keeping him, even if all he does a warm the bench.

Once again, what's left out here is that if we keep him, we have to cut someone else before the season begins. I.e. the benefit down the line is a "maybe" while the cost now is real.

[Ruzious]

I'd like to cut him, but as others said - I think they keep him because of the trade flexibility his contract gives them and the lack of depth they have at center.

[nate33]

I figured we ought to revisit this thread in light of Mahinmi's Achilles injury.

He is out 6 weeks and he was only barely playable prior to the injury. I'd think his NBA career is over. We've got a bunch of interesting young guys vying for one of those final roster spots: Jemerrio Jones, McRae, Justin Anderson. I think any of those guys will help much more than Mahinmi will. And I sincerely doubt that the team has any intention of trading Mahinmi's salary for a longer contract. With that in mind, I think he should be cut.

My preference would be to sign Christian Wood. It's looking like Detroit is leaning toward keeping Joe Johnson, which makes Wood the odd man out. It's too bad we couldn't get Wood in here for training camp.

[Ruzious]

I figured we ought to revisit this thread in light of Mahinmi's Achilles injury.

He is out 6 weeks and he was only barely playable prior to the injury. I'd think his NBA career is over. We've got a bunch of interesting young guys vying for one of those final roster spots: Jemerrio Jones, McRae, Justin Anderson. I think any of those guys will help much more than Mahinmi will. And I sincerely doubt that the team has any intention of trading Mahinmi's salary for a longer contract. With that in mind, I think he should be cut.

My preference would be to sign Christian Wood. It's looking like Detroit is leaning toward keeping Joe Johnson, which makes Wood the odd man out. It's too bad we couldn't get Wood in here for training camp.

I'm all for that and really like all 4 of the other players you mentioned. It's weird - most would say we have a major lack of depth, but it's going to be hard to keep all the players I'd like to keep.