FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 | SPAIN are new WORLD CHAMPIONS

[juli_rc]

Spoiler:

Spain is closer to us than to Argentina. They're an outstanding basketball nation and their league is considered the second best in the world for a reason. What impresses me the most about them is their ability to up their game during the knockout stages. This wasn't the first tournament when they didn't perform that well in the group stages, only to get better when it mattered the most.

Second best league in the world is Euroleague and by a very big margin.

He is talking about national leagues. Euroleague is a competition between best euro teams, it's like Champions League in soccer. Nobody will say you that the best soccer league in the world is the Champions League.

I talking about the national team, not the national league..

[Crunch 99]

Congratulations to Ricky Rubio and Spain! I really enjoyed watching the FIBA World Cup games. There was high quality basketball, good ball movement and close games that filled in perfectly for my basketball fix during the NBA offseason.

[rade]

Spoiler:

Second best league in the world is Euroleague and by a very big margin.

He is talking about national leagues. Euroleague is a competition between best euro teams, it's like Champions League in soccer. Nobody will say you that the best soccer league in the world is the Champions League.

I talking about the national team, not the national league..

We are not talking about what you said, we are talking about DWadeno3 answer to your post

[rade]

I repeat again, he's talking about national leagues. After NBA, spanish ACB is the second best national league in the world.

No, he was talking about leagues. Saying Spanish League is second best league in the world. It's isn't. EuroLeague is.
...
And the whole argument isn't even correct from it's premise. Because NBA isn't a national league. It's an international league. So NBA is the same thing as EuroLeague, or Adriatic League, or NBL Australia, or FIBA Americas League, etc. NBA is an international league, not a national one.

So even the flawed premise of "Spanish league is 2nd best national league in the world" is wrong.

"Spanish ACB is the second best N-A-T-I-O-N-A-L league in the world". Euroleague is an international competition.

And no, NBA it's not an international league just because there is one team from Canada The name say it all:
NATIONAL BASKETBALL ASSOCIATION

In ACB also plays a team from another country, Andorra, but that don't makes the spanish league an international league

[Mirotic12]

"Spanish ACB is the second best N-A-T-I-O-N-A-L league in the world". Euroleague is an international competition.

And no, NBA it's not an international league just because there is one team from Canada The name say it all:
NATIONAL BASKETBALL ASSOCIATION

In ACB also plays a team from another country, Andorra, but that don't makes the spanish league an international league

The forum should deal in facts.

Facts:

1. EuroLeague is a league, not a tournament.

2. EuroLeague is the best basketball league in Europe.

3. EuroLeague is the second best basketball league in the world.

4. Spanish ACB league is not the second best basketball league in the world.

5. Spanish ACB league is not the best basketball league in Europe.

6. The NBA IS an international league, not a national league. That is an absolute FACT.


https://www.dictionary.com/browse/international?s=t

international [ in-ter-nash-uh-nl ]

adjective

1. between or among nations; involving two or more nations:
international trade.

2. of or relating to two or more nations or their citizens:
a matter of international concern.

3. pertaining to the relations between nations:
international law.

4. having members or activities in several nations:
an international organization.

It is a fact that,

EuroLeague is the European equivalent of the NBA, NOT the Spanish ACB league.

And again, the basketball equivalent of the UEFA Champions League is the FIBA Basketball Champions League (BCL).

It's really not that difficult for us to discuss these things based on facts.

[Bob8]

I repeat again, he's talking about national leagues. After NBA, spanish ACB is the second best national league in the world.

No, he was talking about leagues. Saying Spanish League is second best league in the world. It's isn't. EuroLeague is.
...
And the whole argument isn't even correct from it's premise. Because NBA isn't a national league. It's an international league. So NBA is the same thing as EuroLeague, or Adriatic League, or NBL Australia, or FIBA Americas League, etc. NBA is an international league, not a national one.

So even the flawed premise of "Spanish league is 2nd best national league in the world" is wrong.

"Spanish ACB is the second best N-A-T-I-O-N-A-L league in the world". Euroleague is an international competition.

And no, NBA it's not an international league just because there is one team from Canada The name say it all:
NATIONAL BASKETBALL ASSOCIATION

In ACB also plays a team from another country, Andorra, but that don't makes the spanish league an international league

National or international, who cares, how you name it. The best players in Europe are playing in Euroleague. The best clubs have their budget that high because they’re playing in Euroleague not because they’re playing national leagues.

[DWadeno3]

Since the first years of the new century, there was a dispute, between Argentina and Spain for the second best team in the world (USA is first, obviously).

After this tourament, there is no doubt.

ARG:
2002 2°
2004 1°
2006 4°
2008 3°
2010 5°
2012 4°
2014 11°
2016 8°
2019 2°
Average 4,5°

SPA:
2002 5°
2004 7°
2006 1°
2008 2°
2010 6°
2012 2°
2014 5°
2016 3°
2019 1°
Average 3,5°

USA:
2002 6°
2004 3°
2006 3°
2008 1°
2010 1°
2012 1°
2014 1°
2016 1°
2019 7°
Average 2,6°

What you think?

Spain is closer to us than to Argentina. They're an outstanding basketball nation and their league is considered the second best in the world for a reason. What impresses me the most about them is their ability to up their game during the knockout stages. This wasn't the first tournament when they didn't perform that well in the group stages, only to get better when it mattered the most.

Second best league in the world is Euroleague and by a very big margin.

I meant as far as national leagues go. The Euroleague consists of teams from the entire continent. A good indicator for a country’s basketball strength is the national league though because it contains a lot players of the respective nation, hence why I didn’t include the Euroleague.

[DWadeno3]

I repeat again, he's talking about national leagues. After NBA, spanish ACB is the second best national league in the world.

No, he was talking about leagues. Saying Spanish League is second best league in the world. It's isn't. EuroLeague is. And yes, EuroLeague is as LEAGUE. Has a league system, league format........every team plays each other home and away in regular season, then a playoffs round of 5 game series, then a final four to close it. Total of 41 games played. 13 of the 18 teams are contracted. Completely different than UEFA Champions League.

So factually speaking, EuroLeague is a league. And it is the second best league in the world. Not the Spanish League. And the whole "Spanish league is second best national league in the world" thing.........seriously no one cares. That's just some stupid thing US media created, because they don't understand how European basketball works.

Spanish is league is miles below EuroLeague in level, in importance, and in league quality. This whole debate only comes up because ignorant US sports media can't grasp that the Spanish league and the EuroLeague are two different leagues. They make this dumb and ignorant claim all the time, then if you ask them about it, they admit they were unaware EuroLeague and Spanish league are two different leagues. I have asked several US sports journalists why they always make the untrue claim that "Spanish league is the 2nd best basketball league in the world" - they all admitted to not actually realizing Spanish League and EuroLeague were two different leagues.

Spanish league is worse than EuroLeague, it's worse than EuroCup, it's worse than FIBA Champions League. It's also debatable in comparison to Turkish league and VTB United league. It's the 4-6 best basketball league in Europe. Even if you count just "leagues" (as in league systems) - the argument you are using, and take out EuroCup and FIBA Champions League (that are tournaments), it's still just the 2-4 best "league" in Europe. So the whole, "it's the 2nd best basketball league in the world" claim from US sports media is not only ridiculous, it's flat out ignorant and untrue.

Also, the actual European basketball version of UEFA Champions League is the FIBA Basketball Champions League. Not EuroLeague. And the whole argument isn't even correct from it's premise. Because NBA isn't a national league. It's an international league. So NBA is the same thing as EuroLeague, or Adriatic League, or NBL Australia, or FIBA Americas League, etc. NBA is an international league, not a national one.

So even the flawed premise of "Spanish league is 2nd best national league in the world" is wrong.

I meant national leagues as I was talking about the relative strength of a nation’s basketball abilities, hence the Euroleague is not a good comparison for that. Read my other post for further clarification if necessary.

So because of the Raptors the NBA is more comparable to the Euroleague, which consists of multiple teams from multiple countries, than the ACB? Who is being ignorant now? Christ, your entire post is just another anti-American train wreck.

[Sugarless]

@DWadeno3

Don't waste your time. Everyone knows that you meant national league, just like anyone who isn't trying to outsmart everyone else and to prove he's right no-matter-what knows the NBA is not an international league, and it's much more akin to the ACB than the Euroleague.

[Bob8]

@DWadeno3

Don't waste your time. Everyone knows that you meant national league, just like anyone who isn't try to outsmart everyone else and to prove he's right no-matter-what knows the NBA is not an international league, and it's much more akin to the ACB than the Euroleague.

Why?

[Bob8]

Spain is closer to us than to Argentina. They're an outstanding basketball nation and their league is considered the second best in the world for a reason. What impresses me the most about them is their ability to up their game during the knockout stages. This wasn't the first tournament when they didn't perform that well in the group stages, only to get better when it mattered the most.

Second best league in the world is Euroleague and by a very big margin.

I meant as far as national leagues go. The Euroleague consists of teams from the entire continent. A good indicator for a country’s basketball strength is the national league though because it contains a lot players of the respective nation, hence why I didn’t include the Euroleague.

Why is Serbia that good then?

[Sugarless]

@DWadeno3

Don't waste your time. Everyone knows that you meant national league, just like anyone who isn't trying to outsmart everyone else and to prove he's right no-matter-what knows the NBA is not an international league, and it's much more akin to the ACB than the Euroleague.

Why?

Because both are national leagues even if one team in each of them is from abroad, and they're not competitions between the top teams in a bunch of countries, like the EL.

[Bob8]

@DWadeno3

Don't waste your time. Everyone knows that you meant national league, just like anyone who isn't try to outsmart everyone else and to prove he's right no-matter-what knows the NBA is not an international league, and it's much more akin to the ACB than the Euroleague.

Why?

Because both are national leagues even if one team in each of them is from abroad, and they're not competitions between the top teams in a bunch of countries, like the EL.

Why is being national league that important? Do you know in which clubs in Europe are playing or were playing the best players of Spain or Argentina? In Euroleague clubs, because if you’re good, you’re playing in the best clubs in Europe and that are Euroleague clubs. Euroleague is equivalent of Nba in Europe. Best clubs, the biggest budget and the best players are playing there, like in Nba. And you might know that there some political form known as EU, so many of this countries have much in common including currency.

[Sugarless]

Why?

Because both are national leagues even if one team in each of them is from abroad, and they're not competitions between the top teams in a bunch of countries, like the EL.

Why is being national league that important? Do you know in which clubs in Europe are playing or were playing the best players of Spain? In Euroleague clubs, because if you’re good, you’re playing in the best clubs in Europe and that are Euroleague clubs. Euroleague is equivalent of Nba in Europe. Best clubs, the biggest budget and the best players are playing there, like in Nba. And you might know that there some political form known as EU, so many of this countries have much in common including currency.

It is important because that's what DWadeno3 meant. You just went into a whole different argument just for the sake of it.

And please spare me the explanations about the EL and the EU. I'm European and have been watching basketball since the 80s, way before the Euroleague with it's current brand / name existed, thank you very much.

[Mirotic12]

For any NBA only fan that does not know about European basketball, please don't pay attention to posts like that. What Bob8 and I are saying is the truth in the matter. I have never heard any European basketball fan say ACB is NBA's equivalent in European basketball. NEVER. Literally every single European basketball fan I have ever talked to considers EuroLeague the NBA equivalent.

This isn't even remotely debatable.

The only possible explanation I can even imagine for someone claiming ACB is Europe's equivalent of NBA, and not the EuroLeague, is some kind of Spanish nationalism or Spanish exceptionalism. Because it's a completely ridiculous claim.

[Sugarless]

NBA: best national league, best club / franchise competition in the world.
ACB: 2nd best national league in the world.
EL: 2nd best club competition in the world.

There, that's simple enough that no one has to try to make a different argument just to prove he/she is right.

[Mirotic12]

NBA: best national league, best club / franchise competition in the world.
ACB: 2nd best national league in the world.
EL: 2nd best club competition in the world.

There, that's simple enough that no one has to try to make a different argument just to prove he/she is right.

For anyone that follows European basketball closely, the national league is irrelevant to the "strength of a country in basketball" in terms of counting how many players they had in a World Cup medal round. Maybe it mattered a lot back 25-30 years ago, but now it's basically meaningless.

What would actually matter is how many players a country had in NBA, EuroLeague, EuroCup / FIBA Basketball Champions League - that would matter a lot more than how many are playing in the Liga ACB.

What is the advantage of playing against some random scrub ACB team, or being in some random scrub ACB team, versus the same in Italy, in France, in Greece, in Turkey? There is no advantage. Unless you talk about playing EuroLeague teams twice a year, which also happens if you are in a scrub team in Greece or Russia, or Lithuania, etc.

It's like a marketing gimmick from Liga ACB for this to even be a thing.

[Bob8]

Because both are national leagues even if one team in each of them is from abroad, and they're not competitions between the top teams in a bunch of countries, like the EL.

Why is being national league that important? Do you know in which clubs in Europe are playing or were playing the best players of Spain? In Euroleague clubs, because if you’re good, you’re playing in the best clubs in Europe and that are Euroleague clubs. Euroleague is equivalent of Nba in Europe. Best clubs, the biggest budget and the best players are playing there, like in Nba. And you might know that there some political form known as EU, so many of this countries have much in common including currency.

It is important because that's what DWadeno3 meant. You just went into a whole different argument just for the sake of it.

And please spare me the explanations about the EL and the EU. I'm European and have been watching basketball since the 80s, way before the Euroleague with it's current brand / name existed, thank you very much.

It was Final between Spain and Argentina, which for well known reasons gravity to Spain. It’s normal that almost everyone is or was playing in Acb. But you missed 2 important things,

1. Almost all if not all this players, who played in Acb, played or play in Euroleague too, because the best players are not playing in average Acb clubs but in the best Acb clubs, which play in Euroleague too.

2. If we had Serbia vs France Final there would have been very little Acb league players, but again almost everyone from Euroleague.

Former Euroleague was totally different competition similar to Champions league in football. Only few years back they started with new classical league format, where in regular season everyone play with each other twice. Now is Euroleague really a league like any other national league. Quality of the Euroleague is incomparable to other leagues. Euroleague is equivalent to Nba in Europe. Best clubs, best players, from Europe or international, which are not playing in Nba.

[DWadeno3]

Second best league in the world is Euroleague and by a very big margin.

I meant as far as national leagues go. The Euroleague consists of teams from the entire continent. A good indicator for a country’s basketball strength is the national league though because it contains a lot players of the respective nation, hence why I didn’t include the Euroleague.

Why is Serbia that good then?

Did I say it’s a dead give away that a good national league means a basketball nation is good? No, I said it’s an indicator. And for Spain it’s a strong one. It also applies to Greece, Turkey or Lithuania for that matter.

[Bob8]

I meant as far as national leagues go. The Euroleague consists of teams from the entire continent. A good indicator for a country’s basketball strength is the national league though because it contains a lot players of the respective nation, hence why I didn’t include the Euroleague.

Why is Serbia that good then?

Did I say it’s a dead give away that a good national league means a basketball nation is good? No, I said it’s an indicator. And for Spain it’s a strong one. It also applies to Greece, Turkey or Lithuania for that matter.

Greek and especially Lithuanian leagues are a joke. But yet again, all the best Greece and Lithuanian players play or have played in Euroleague. The only exception is Giannis, who simply was not good enough. But he was not good enough for first Greek league either.