ImageImageImageImageImage

Political Roundtable Part XXVI

Moderators: montestewart, LyricalRico, nate33

I_Like_Dirt
RealGM
Posts: 36,057
And1: 9,437
Joined: Jul 12, 2003
Location: Boardman gets paid!

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1321 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:40 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Who would be the best VP candidate to get Warren by the swing states? Guessing that isn't Castro?


I don't think any of the presidential candidates are necessarily ideal VP candidates. I like Harris but I'm not sure how she fits with Warren in general. I think Nate is right about Stacey Abrams, for example, being a better candidate, and there are others out there like that, too.

I do think Andrew Yang would be an interesting candidate, though. He doesn't do much for driving minority voters to the polls and he's not a particularly good presidential candidate but he crosses a lot of political and social boundaries. If I had to pick a running mate for Warren out of the presidential candidates only, I'd probably take him.
Bucket! Bucket!
Zonkerbl
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 9,071
And1: 4,756
Joined: Mar 24, 2010
       

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1322 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:45 pm

According to my archives I first started working on this project two chief economists ago, in 2014. Finally out and official on the intertubes!

https://www.mcc.gov/resources/doc/water-sector-cost-benefit-guidance
I've been taught all my life to value service to the weak and powerless.
User avatar
UcanUwill
RealGM
Posts: 33,114
And1: 36,660
Joined: Aug 07, 2011
 

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1323 » by UcanUwill » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:49 pm



Always dreamed of becoming american, but when the president keeps crying how every person who wins visa lottery is a murdered, its a big turn off. I feel ashamed and disgusted every time I see his rally and I am on the other side of the world.
User avatar
gtn130
Analyst
Posts: 3,512
And1: 2,740
Joined: Mar 18, 2009

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1324 » by gtn130 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:36 pm

Read on Twitter


America First!!
dobrojim
RealGM
Posts: 16,915
And1: 4,102
Joined: Sep 16, 2004

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1325 » by dobrojim » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:47 pm

so 3 of the nine justices on the SC really have no business being there

Thomas, rated poorly at best before the Anita Hill allegations (the investigations into which were a sham);
Gorsuch got gifted his seat in a blatant and unprecedented power grad by #MoscowMitch;
And BK who in no way especially after lying about the possible existence of 'youthful indiscretions'
(putting it politely) deserves a seat either.

Is this a great country or what?
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

Those who are convinced of absurdities, can be convinced to commit atrocities
Pointgod
RealGM
Posts: 24,158
And1: 24,471
Joined: Jun 28, 2014

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1326 » by Pointgod » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:06 pm

Ruzious wrote:Assuming Biden wins the primary, would either Sanders or Warren be willing to work with Biden and be his VP?


No. You need both Bernie and Warren in the Senate because if you lose Warren seat will go to a Republican and I don’t know the politics of Vermont, but I assume that Bernie’s popularity is what is keeping that his seat in the hands of Democrats. Just the optics of two older white people on the ticket follows the same mistake that Hillary’s camp made and it plays into the narrative that Democrats don’t care about people of color (which I think is patently false).

Young needs to balance out the old. I think a Biden and Harris ticket is a strong one. It will piss off the far left in the Democratic Party but hey if you can’t get it up to vote against the orange menace then you deserve everything bad that will happen. The only thing better would be a Progressive woman of color from a Midwest or Southern State.

I think that no matter what happens there needs to be a pact from 100 candidates that they’ll campaign and fundraise for whoever the nominee is.
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 70,332
And1: 22,750
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1327 » by nate33 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:24 pm

dobrojim wrote:so 3 of the nine justices on the SC really have no business being there

Thomas, rated poorly at best before the Anita Hill allegations (the investigations into which were a sham);
Gorsuch got gifted his seat in a blatant and unprecedented power grad by #MoscowMitch;
And BK who in no way especially after lying about the possible existence of 'youthful indiscretions'
(putting it politely) deserves a seat either.

Is this a great country or what?

There is a remedy. Win an election. Control the Senate.
JWizmentality
RealGM
Posts: 14,100
And1: 5,121
Joined: Nov 21, 2004
Location: Cosmic Totality
   

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1328 » by JWizmentality » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:37 pm

nate33 wrote:
dobrojim wrote:so 3 of the nine justices on the SC really have no business being there

Thomas, rated poorly at best before the Anita Hill allegations (the investigations into which were a sham);
Gorsuch got gifted his seat in a blatant and unprecedented power grad by #MoscowMitch;
And BK who in no way especially after lying about the possible existence of 'youthful indiscretions'
(putting it politely) deserves a seat either.

Is this a great country or what?

There is a remedy. Win an election. Control the Senate.


Then increase number of justices to 11.
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 70,332
And1: 22,750
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1329 » by nate33 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:45 pm

JWizmentality wrote:
nate33 wrote:
dobrojim wrote:so 3 of the nine justices on the SC really have no business being there

Thomas, rated poorly at best before the Anita Hill allegations (the investigations into which were a sham);
Gorsuch got gifted his seat in a blatant and unprecedented power grad by #MoscowMitch;
And BK who in no way especially after lying about the possible existence of 'youthful indiscretions'
(putting it politely) deserves a seat either.

Is this a great country or what?

There is a remedy. Win an election. Control the Senate.


Then increase number of justices to 11.

Pipe dream. Not gonna happen. It would totally delegitimize the Supreme Court. Once you open that door, then every new President would add more justices. If we're at the point where you are ready for such extreme anti-democratic measures to get your way, then let's just break up the country and be done with it.
JWizmentality
RealGM
Posts: 14,100
And1: 5,121
Joined: Nov 21, 2004
Location: Cosmic Totality
   

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1330 » by JWizmentality » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:49 pm

nate33 wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:
nate33 wrote:There is a remedy. Win an election. Control the Senate.


Then increase number of justices to 11.

Pipe dream. Not gonna happen. It would totally delegitimize the Supreme Court. Once you open that door, then every new President would add more justices. If we're at the point where you are ready for such extreme anti-democratic measures to get your way, then let's just break up the country and be done with it.


Probably not, but I'm fine with that. It's time Democrat started playing just as dirty as Republicans. Enough is enough. You admitted as much when Trump was elected, so when did you start caring about the rule of law?
User avatar
gtn130
Analyst
Posts: 3,512
And1: 2,740
Joined: Mar 18, 2009

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1331 » by gtn130 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:56 pm

Seriously why the **** do we care that Saudi Arabia was attacked? They are not our friends. They literally did 9/11
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 70,332
And1: 22,750
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1332 » by nate33 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:59 pm

JWizmentality wrote:
nate33 wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:
Then increase number of justices to 11.

Pipe dream. Not gonna happen. It would totally delegitimize the Supreme Court. Once you open that door, then every new President would add more justices. If we're at the point where you are ready for such extreme anti-democratic measures to get your way, then let's just break up the country and be done with it.


Probably not, but I'm fine with that. It's time Democrat started playing just as dirty as Republicans. Enough is enough. You admitted as much when Trump was elected, so when did you start caring about the rule of law?

Packing the court is a whole 'nother level of playing dirty. When they talk about a Constitutional crisis, that really is one. To run a democracy, you have to have some basic level of legitimacy. There are still enough sane Democrats to nix that idea.

And if not, I for one would welcome the breaking up of the Union.
JWizmentality
RealGM
Posts: 14,100
And1: 5,121
Joined: Nov 21, 2004
Location: Cosmic Totality
   

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1333 » by JWizmentality » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:03 pm

nate33 wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:
nate33 wrote:Pipe dream. Not gonna happen. It would totally delegitimize the Supreme Court. Once you open that door, then every new President would add more justices. If we're at the point where you are ready for such extreme anti-democratic measures to get your way, then let's just break up the country and be done with it.


Probably not, but I'm fine with that. It's time Democrat started playing just as dirty as Republicans. Enough is enough. You admitted as much when Trump was elected, so when did you start caring about the rule of law?

Packing the court is a whole 'nother level of playing dirty. When they talk about a Constitutional crisis, that really is one. To run a democracy, you have to have some basic level of legitimacy. There are still enough sane Democrats to nix that idea.

And if not, I for one would welcome the breaking up of the Union.


We're way beyond "nother level" nate. And let's be honest here, the Supreme Court has 5-4ed it's way to being a joke for some time now. I already knew your opinion on the Union, so what are we arguing about here? 12 pieces of silver too late to be up in arms don't ya think? :roll:
dobrojim
RealGM
Posts: 16,915
And1: 4,102
Joined: Sep 16, 2004

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1334 » by dobrojim » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:32 pm

nate33 wrote:
dobrojim wrote:so 3 of the nine justices on the SC really have no business being there

Thomas, rated poorly at best before the Anita Hill allegations (the investigations into which were a sham);
Gorsuch got gifted his seat in a blatant and unprecedented power grad by #MoscowMitch;
And BK who in no way especially after lying about the possible existence of 'youthful indiscretions'
(putting it politely) deserves a seat either.

Is this a great country or what?

There is a remedy. Win an election. Control the Senate.


Are you defending what #moscowmitch did? A black POTUS only gets 3/4 of a term?

The dems had won the election that historically was the only one that
should have mattered. And IIRC, they controlled the senate when Clarence -
what's that on the coke can- Thomas was confirmed.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

Those who are convinced of absurdities, can be convinced to commit atrocities
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 70,332
And1: 22,750
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1335 » by nate33 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:07 pm

dobrojim wrote:
nate33 wrote:
dobrojim wrote:so 3 of the nine justices on the SC really have no business being there

Thomas, rated poorly at best before the Anita Hill allegations (the investigations into which were a sham);
Gorsuch got gifted his seat in a blatant and unprecedented power grad by #MoscowMitch;
And BK who in no way especially after lying about the possible existence of 'youthful indiscretions'
(putting it politely) deserves a seat either.

Is this a great country or what?

There is a remedy. Win an election. Control the Senate.


Are you defending what #moscowmitch did? A black POTUS only gets 3/4 of a term?

The dems had won the election that historically was the only one that
should have mattered. And IIRC, they controlled the senate when Clarence -
what's that on the coke can- Thomas was confirmed.

It all started with Bork.
User avatar
pancakes3
General Manager
Posts: 9,588
And1: 3,016
Joined: Jul 27, 2003
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1336 » by pancakes3 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:19 pm

Justices are appointed for life so they aren't subject to the fickle whims of the electorate and other outside influences, so their decisions will continue to be neutral and unswayed. That does not mean they're immune to removal for legitimate concerns such as being a sexual deviant, or other malfeasances that call their decision-making into question. I'd want RBG to lose her job if similar allegations arose against her

This has nothing to do with partisanship. There's an endless parade of conservative judges behind Kavannaugh that don't have multiple sexual assault allegations on their record that are eligible for the bench. Gorsuch, for all of his flaws, didn't have any. Doubling down on Kavannaugh, dismissing legitimate strikes against him, and framing it as a partisan objection is basically lying to the public.

But we should also take a couple steps back and realize what's happening to how SCOTUS nominees are reflective of how politics and partisanship has infiltrated the nomination process. What is supposed to be a bastion against partisanship is now the prime battleground where political ideologies are fought.

1) It's insane that Gorsuch, Kavannaugh, and the other Trump nominees have sufficiently signaled that they would be good Republican soldiers if/when appointed. All of Trump's nominees are furnished by the Federalist Society. Fed Soc is notoriously partisan, hiding under the pretext of "textualism" and holds outsized power in the legal community, thanks to them aligning their interests with republicans, powergrabbing since the Regan administration. The group of ~70,000 holds disproportionately massive portion of politically nominated legal positions out of a community of over a million attorneys in the US. It's completely anathema to the role of judges and government attorneys in this country. An objectively good, and "original-as-to-the-wishes-of-the-founders" nominee has no political affiliations.

2) The linedrawing of what is gamesmanship and what is treason when it comes to the nomination process is a bad game to play. Praising McConnel's gamesmanship for stalling his way to steal a SCOTUS seat while condemning courtpacking is just self-rationalization. Both are equally abhorrent practices. To favor one over the other is to admit that certain infractions are justified and others aren't, and sets the baseline assumption that infractions of the nomination process on some level, in theory and in practice, are tolerable. It isn't. Infractions cannot be tolerated. Period.

3) How different are Americans really? Either D's and R's are not much different - that we are all Americans, or D's and R's are so completely at odds with each other that we might as well have a civil split. Just how intolerable would it be to have a Dem majority or a R majority on the court? in Congress? Because it's undeniable that Newt's, and now McConnell's brand of hyperpartisanship, and the inter-party relations is such that there's essentially two different nations existing within our borders anyway. Trump's blanket policy to roll back all Obama-era regulations for the sake of undoing Obama's decisions, regardless of whether it makes sense for the public just heightens this "us v them" mentality.

So, how different are Americans, really? I had posted a few pages ago that the Republican playbook is to demonize Dems on a moral level, as opposed to an ideological level. Abortion is MURDER, et. al. Now, Dems aren't innocent either - Hilary fueling the fire by calling Trumpers deplorable didn't help, but it's obvious that one side is more guilty of this than the other.

But if we're not so different, what difference does it make? What does Kavannaugh losing his seat to some other FedSoc member really matter? It would only show that Mitch is unable to impose his political will on Congressional processes - that's it. It has nothing to do with abortion, or even a political party gaining or losing power. Mitch is opposed because he knows his time is lost, but for the rest of Red nation out there - what difference does it make? You wouldn't even be "losing" points on the Real GM Political Roundtable scoreboard.
Bullets -> Wizards
dobrojim
RealGM
Posts: 16,915
And1: 4,102
Joined: Sep 16, 2004

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1337 » by dobrojim » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:54 pm

nate33 wrote:
dobrojim wrote:
nate33 wrote:There is a remedy. Win an election. Control the Senate.


Are you defending what #moscowmitch did? A black POTUS only gets 3/4 of a term?

The dems had won the election that historically was the only one that
should have mattered. And IIRC, they controlled the senate when Clarence -
what's that on the coke can- Thomas was confirmed.

It all started with Bork.


Please.

Bork talked himself out of the seat. The more he talked, the less anyone liked him.

edit to add-
To make more clear what I am suggesting, I would say that when Bork spoke
and the more he did so, he created substantive concerns about his judicial temperament,
his ability to be neutral.

Let's remember that these highest judges have a special name, Justices.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

Those who are convinced of absurdities, can be convinced to commit atrocities
dobrojim
RealGM
Posts: 16,915
And1: 4,102
Joined: Sep 16, 2004

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1338 » by dobrojim » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 pm

I remember the goodle days (John Hartford) when conservatives railed against what
they hyperbolically claimed were 'activist' judges. Now and since Bush v Gore, they have been exposed
for the totally results oriented hypocrites they are, Scalia leading the way.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

Those who are convinced of absurdities, can be convinced to commit atrocities
Wizardspride
RealGM
Posts: 17,370
And1: 11,561
Joined: Nov 05, 2004
Location: Olney, MD/Kailua/Kaneohe, HI
       

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1339 » by Wizardspride » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:29 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=19

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
Wizardspride
RealGM
Posts: 17,370
And1: 11,561
Joined: Nov 05, 2004
Location: Olney, MD/Kailua/Kaneohe, HI
       

Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1340 » by Wizardspride » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:48 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
?s=19

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.

Return to Washington Wizards