Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: It's B-ball Time !!!

[ezzzp]

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[ezzzp]

not crying about anything lol. good riddance. You'll see soon enough, dont worry.

you're literally on another team's page whining about a player that hasn't been on your team for months

Not whining. Applauding his representatives ability to keep Fultz mysterious long enough to get another option accepted. Thats all. Good on him.

You're desperate for him to fail because your team gave up so much to get him and then traded him for bag of generic store-brand potato chips. That's all.

[pinoynurse]

Fultz actually did it. He conned his way in to a full 4 year rookie contract without playing any real basketball. His agent is amazing.

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Markelle has real estate in Sixers fans heads. I saw less cry babies on Election Night 2016

not crying about anything lol. good riddance. You'll see soon enough, dont worry.

We are not worried. We didnt give up anything in the first place

[pinoynurse]

I will say this...

If Fultz cannot play by the start of the season because he's "too injured" still, I'm going to be particularly annoyed with this whole thing.

I'm trying to be as optimistic as I can. I'd rather him be able to play and play terribly than not be able to play at all.

Knightro you’re better than this. You have to take the long view and patient approach here. You are setting your own timeline for him which is what the sixers did and led them down the hate train. We have been given no official indication on when he will be back so throw your timeline away otherwise your gonna end up upset over something you set yourself up for.

[ezzzp]

Read on Twitter

[VFX]

I will say this...

If Fultz cannot play by the start of the season because he's "too injured" still, I'm going to be particularly annoyed with this whole thing.

I'm trying to be as optimistic as I can. I'd rather him be able to play and play terribly than not be able to play at all.

Knightro you’re better than this. You have to take the long view and patient approach here. You are setting your own timeline for him which is what the sixers did and led them down the hate train. We have been given no official indication on when he will be back so throw your timeline away otherwise your gonna end up upset over something you set yourself up for.

In your estimation, what isn't considered “too soon” for people to give up on Fultz being an option? Not saying I’m not going to give him a chance, but if he’s not playing in the first month or two I think I’d sell my Fultz stock.

[pinoynurse]

I will say this...

If Fultz cannot play by the start of the season because he's "too injured" still, I'm going to be particularly annoyed with this whole thing.

I'm trying to be as optimistic as I can. I'd rather him be able to play and play terribly than not be able to play at all.

Knightro you’re better than this. You have to take the long view and patient approach here. You are setting your own timeline for him which is what the sixers did and led them down the hate train. We have been given no official indication on when he will be back so throw your timeline away otherwise your gonna end up upset over something you set yourself up for.

In your estimation, what isn't considered “too soon” for people to give up on Fultz being an option? Not saying I’m not going to give him a chance, but if he’s not playing in the first month or two I think I’d sell my Fultz stock.

To be honest i dont really have an estimation. In my mind i have it set that there is a real possibility he might not come back at all. To many unknowns in a case that is almost unheard of. Dont get me wrong i am rooting for him and i hope he can be the superstar we need but at the same time, if he were to miss this whole season i wouldnt be surprised. I would still give him even until next season to show me something. In the end we gave up nothing for him so im not gonna cry over it

[Def Swami]

I will say this...

If Fultz cannot play by the start of the season because he's "too injured" still, I'm going to be particularly annoyed with this whole thing.

I'm trying to be as optimistic as I can. I'd rather him be able to play and play terribly than not be able to play at all.

Knightro you’re better than this. You have to take the long view and patient approach here. You are setting your own timeline for him which is what the sixers did and led them down the hate train. We have been given no official indication on when he will be back so throw your timeline away otherwise your gonna end up upset over something you set yourself up for.

It's appropriate to be skeptical about it for a myriad of reasons.

10 months is a long time to rehab for TOS. A lot of athletes would/could have had a surgery by now if there was no improvement after a few months of rehab. But they've obviously opted against that.

There is poor evidence regarding outcomes of TOS. Even if he does all of the treatment, there's no real guarantee that he'll ever be cured or feel better. And this has never really occurred in a professional basketball player that we know of; relatively more common in baseball players.

And there's the very real possibility that he doesn't have TOS. There is currently no single clinical sign that makes the diagnosis of TOS with any degree of certainty. TOS is a diagnosis of exclusion. He went to over 10 different physicians before he found one that diagnosed him with TOS. He was never deemed unfit to play, but he and his agent shut themselves down. TOS never affected his ability to take players off the dribble or throw down dunks in traffic. The diagnosis never made sense to me. It's absolutely possible that he simply has (hopefully "had") the "yips." You can't prove anyone has TOS. Which makes for a convenient diagnosis to appease a kid who is trying to explain suddenly losing a skill he mastered.

There's a lot of things about Fultz's situation that never really adds up. IMHO, it's still a mystery as to why he felt like he couldn't play. I'm pulling for him, like everyone else. Lord knows we need him to be good. But, there's a very good reason to be skeptical of this working out at all. And 10 months is a long time to rehab and still not be ready to participate in full contact.

[Knightro]

Knightro you’re better than this. You have to take the long view and patient approach here. You are setting your own timeline for him which is what the sixers did and led them down the hate train. We have been given no official indication on when he will be back so throw your timeline away otherwise your gonna end up upset over something you set yourself up for.

I get what you're trying to say, but at what point has enough time passed?

The guy got diagnosed with a syndrome no one genuinely knows if he even actually has all the way back in the beginning of December.

By the time camp rolls around in a couple of weeks, he'll have been rehabbing this possibly non-existent syndrome for the last TEN months.

Like... if he's not ready after 10 months of quite literally doing nothing but rehab, what's another month or two going to really do for him?

[ezzzp]

In your estimation, what isn't considered “too soon” for people to give up on Fultz being an option? Not saying I’m not going to give him a chance, but if he’s not playing in the first month or two I think I’d sell my Fultz stock.

Based on Ben Uzoh, who is the only example of TOS in basketball, his rehab lasted somewhere between 6 to 17 months.

Uzoh signed with a Nigerian team 6 months after the diagnosis of TOS and the first record of him playing was on June 1, 2015 (opening night for the Lagos Islanders of NPL) that's 10 months after his diagnosis.

The earliest record I found of him shooting 3's again came at the 2016 Summer Olympics (17 months after first being diagnosed with TOS).

[VFX]

In your estimation, what isn't considered “too soon” for people to give up on Fultz being an option? Not saying I’m not going to give him a chance, but if he’s not playing in the first month or two I think I’d sell my Fultz stock.

Based on Ben Uzoh, who is the only example of TOS in basketball, his rehab lasted somewhere between 6 to 17 months.

Uzoh signed with a Nigerian team 6 months after the diagnosis of TOS and the first record of him playing was on June 1, 2015 (opening night for the Lagos Islanders of NPL) that's 10 months after his diagnosis.

The earliest record I found of him shooting 3's again came at the 2016 Summer Olympics (17 months after first being diagnosed with TOS).

I’ll mirror what Def and Knightro are saying and will agree that if he isn’t ready to suit up in the first few months, then he simply isn’t going to.

A lot of it doesn’t add up and he’s been doing nothing but rehabbing since he was acquired. I get why the front office offered him an extension to put his mind at ease. However, this could easily backfire on Orlando, for a multitude of reasons, should Fultz’ problem be between the ears and not really TOS related. They have already put their stock into Fultz (draft,trade,free agency, etc.) for what they are selling as a “playoff team”. Might as well double and triple down on their bet.

[MagicFan101]

I will say this...

If Fultz cannot play by the start of the season because he's "too injured" still, I'm going to be particularly annoyed with this whole thing.

I'm trying to be as optimistic as I can. I'd rather him be able to play and play terribly than not be able to play at all.

Knightro you’re better than this. You have to take the long view and patient approach here. You are setting your own timeline for him which is what the sixers did and led them down the hate train. We have been given no official indication on when he will be back so throw your timeline away otherwise your gonna end up upset over something you set yourself up for.

In your estimation, what isn't considered “too soon” for people to give up on Fultz being an option? Not saying I’m not going to give him a chance, but if he’s not playing in the first month or two I think I’d sell my Fultz stock.

The correct answer is when time comes to decide on contract #2.

His value and hopes of his return declines by the day but the complete “give up all hope” point is 2 years away.

[yoyojw17]

In your estimation, what isn't considered “too soon” for people to give up on Fultz being an option? Not saying I’m not going to give him a chance, but if he’s not playing in the first month or two I think I’d sell my Fultz stock.

Based on Ben Uzoh, who is the only example of TOS in basketball, his rehab lasted somewhere between 6 to 17 months.

Uzoh signed with a Nigerian team 6 months after the diagnosis of TOS and the first record of him playing was on June 1, 2015 (opening night for the Lagos Islanders of NPL) that's 10 months after his diagnosis.

The earliest record I found of him shooting 3's again came at the 2016 Summer Olympics (17 months after first being diagnosed with TOS).

I’ll mirror what Def and Knightro are saying and will agree that if he isn’t ready to suit up in the first few months, then he simply isn’t going to.

A lot of it doesn’t add up and he’s been doing nothing but rehabbing since he was acquired. I get why the front office offered him an extension to put his mind at ease. However, this could easily backfire on Orlando, for a multitude of reasons, should Fultz’ problem be between the ears and not really TOS related. They have already put their stock into Fultz (draft,trade,free agency, etc.) for what they are selling as a “playoff team”. Might as well double and triple down on their bet.

I'm not as worried as others about the timeline that has transpired. If i had to piece all the information together I would assume that he literally overworked during training.... went 60 mph to 160 mph too quickly for his young body to handle taking "1000 threes per day"... that overusage is what triggered the TOS.

Now..... for his rehab... there are possible stages that were required. A) let the inflammation and soreness recede through rest and PT B) begin strengthening the shoulder again. C) get him on a workout program that allows him to slowly tweak and develop his jumpshot to a point where it is easily doable without ever having to physically affect him again.

and this could totally become an iterative process. Instead of making sure he's JUST pain free... they invested the time to properly develop his skills at a rate that required no demand and pressures of performance by the media and fans. I think he's healthy and ready to go.... and that the extension is part of the confirmation .... as the signed both bamba and isaac at the same time. Not as though the options of JI and Bamba were picked up weeks ago and we've been waiting on fultz.

the kid is probably about to blow up the spot. But yes.... reinjury is always a reality.... but the FO felt confident in locking him up for the following year. soooooooo....

[ezzzp]

I’ll mirror what Def and Knightro are saying and will agree that if he isn’t ready to suit up in the first few months, then he simply isn’t going to.

A lot of it doesn’t add up and he’s been doing nothing but rehabbing since he was acquired. I get why the front office offered him an extension to put his mind at ease. However, this could easily backfire on Orlando, for a multitude of reasons, should Fultz’ problem be between the ears and not really TOS related. They have already put their stock into Fultz (draft,trade,free agency, etc.) for what they are selling as a “playoff team”. Might as well double and triple down on their bet.

There are injuries that rehab takes a solid 9-12 months or longer before a player returns...and with some of those injuries it takes 2 years before a player gets back to their prior NBA form.

Its just not reasonable to put a totally arbitrary 10-12 month timeline on it. What is that based on?

What the Magic are doing will be the first "case study" for the treatment of TOS in the NBA. How in the world are you guys arriving at "if he's not ready by a couple months in the season then he'll never be ready?"

[ezzzp]

I will say this...

If Fultz cannot play by the start of the season because he's "too injured" still, I'm going to be particularly annoyed with this whole thing.

I'm trying to be as optimistic as I can. I'd rather him be able to play and play terribly than not be able to play at all.

Knightro you’re better than this. You have to take the long view and patient approach here. You are setting your own timeline for him which is what the sixers did and led them down the hate train. We have been given no official indication on when he will be back so throw your timeline away otherwise your gonna end up upset over something you set yourself up for.

It's appropriate to be skeptical about it for a myriad of reasons.

10 months is a long time to rehab for TOS. A lot of athletes would/could have had a surgery by now if there was no improvement after a few months of rehab. But they've obviously opted against that.

There is poor evidence regarding outcomes of TOS. Even if he does all of the treatment, there's no real guarantee that he'll ever be cured or feel better. And this has never really occurred in a professional basketball player that we know of; relatively more common in baseball players.

And there's the very real possibility that he doesn't have TOS. There is currently no single clinical sign that makes the diagnosis of TOS with any degree of certainty. TOS is a diagnosis of exclusion. He went to over 10 different physicians before he found one that diagnosed him with TOS. He was never deemed unfit to play, but he and his agent shut themselves down. TOS never affected his ability to take players off the dribble or throw down dunks in traffic. The diagnosis never made sense to me. It's absolutely possible that he simply has (hopefully "had") the "yips." You can't prove anyone has TOS. Which makes for a convenient diagnosis to appease a kid who is trying to explain suddenly losing a skill he mastered.

There's a lot of things about Fultz's situation that never really adds up. IMHO, it's still a mystery as to why he felt like he couldn't play. I'm pulling for him, like everyone else. Lord knows we need him to be good. But, there's a very good reason to be skeptical of this working out at all. And 10 months is a long time to rehab and still not be ready to participate in full contact.

that's not what a TOS surgeon describes:

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/12/13/18134738/markelle-fultz-injury-tos-thoratic-outlet-syndrome-doctor

[VFX]

Knightro you’re better than this. You have to take the long view and patient approach here. You are setting your own timeline for him which is what the sixers did and led them down the hate train. We have been given no official indication on when he will be back so throw your timeline away otherwise your gonna end up upset over something you set yourself up for.

In your estimation, what isn't considered “too soon” for people to give up on Fultz being an option? Not saying I’m not going to give him a chance, but if he’s not playing in the first month or two I think I’d sell my Fultz stock.

The correct answer is when time comes to decide on contract #2.

His value and hopes of his return declines by the day but the complete “give up all hope” point is 2 years away.

If #1 pick Fultz can’t get significant minutes and contribute behind 32 year old DJ Augustine, after being medically cleared THIS season, then I’m giving up hope on him entirely. I don’t care what his contract is.

[MagicFan101]

In your estimation, what isn't considered “too soon” for people to give up on Fultz being an option? Not saying I’m not going to give him a chance, but if he’s not playing in the first month or two I think I’d sell my Fultz stock.

The correct answer is when time comes to decide on contract #2.

His value and hopes of his return declines by the day but the complete “give up all hope” point is 2 years away.

If #1 pick Fultz can’t get significant minutes and contribute behind 32 year old DJ Augustine, after being medically cleared THIS season, then I’m giving up hope on him entirely. I don’t care what his contract is.

If he continues to sit until say the trade deadline and struggles with rust once inserted into the rotation for the final few months you would want us to roll out the Mozgov treatment for the final year of his contract?

Shortsighted much?

[basketballRob]

Oladipo was 22 in second year.
Tobias was 20 in second year.
Bamba will be 21.

It's irrelevant difference.

So this was bugging me because both Bamba and Tobias were both 1 and done players, so how could Bamba be a year older than Tobias. Was Bamba so dumb he got held back a year? Did Tobias skip a year or cheaty face into kindergarten a year early like I did (Birthday was after the cut off, mom was a teach so the school let me start Kindergarten as a 4 year old)? Oh, it turns out that Pepe is incorrect. So, Bamba was born in May and Tobias was born in July, they were born seven years apart and drafted seven years apart. The Draft is in June, so Bamba would have been "20" for the draft while Tobias would have been "19". Even then, in their second year Bamba would be 2 months older than Tobias would have been in his second year, but Pepe reports that as a full year of difference.

Fake news?

Born in July of 1992, played rookie year that started in October of 2011 and finished in April 2012 means that he finished rookie year while still being 19 years old.

Born in May of 1998, played rookie year that started in October of 2018 and finished in April of 2019 means Mo Bamba was 20 during whole rookie year.

That is why basketball reference refer to Harris rookie year as "19 years old" and Bamba as "20" . because it's something factual

This is nothing new , Sekou Doumbouya and Talen Horton-Tucker are both 18 years old and will finish rookie years being just 19.
Where Doumbouya played in France he didn't fall into "regular"college rules, Talen actually did play at college, yet will still be just 18 when nba season starts, and 19 when it finishes, in mean time Cam Reddish played one year at college but is already 20.

Suggesting i'm doing "fake news" and in same time failing at 1st grade math is pretty sad.

As for how team performed with Bamba, net rating says it all.

You blame Ross and Evan for team's poor performance, yet ignore that Bamba played all the way until end of January, where team lost 9 of 12 games, yet, in second he is gone, team wins 6 of next 7 games and finishes month with 8 -3 record. Coincidence?

How about team having 17-3 record with Birch playing <15min while in mean time around 13-20 record when Bamba was playing <15 min'

The Magic had their worst net rating this year with Bamba on the court at -15.2 points per 100 possessions. Orlando gave up 108.3 points per 100 possessions with Bamba on the floor.

When Khem Birch was on the floor, the Magic had a +2.8 net rating and a 102.0 defensive rating.

As for pinning blame on Evan and TRoss

The three-man lineup of Mohamed Bamba, Aaron Gordon and Evan Fournier played together just 122 minutes together at a -23.4 net rating.

A lot of those had to come while the Magic were experimenting with a twin tower lineup of Bamba and Vucevic together on the floor. That unit. . . did not work — -37.5 net rating in 36 minutes.

So he was terrible with every single Magic starter.

I just don't get why it's so "taboo" to say that player sucked during rookie year? How many rookies don't ? Pretty much only all time greatest come off gate and are transending, even Lebron missed playoffs in rookie year.

Birch had a terrible record when he played more than 10 minutes when Grant was the backup. PG was the real big difference.

All of Bamba's games were with Grant as the backup and he was arguably the worst PG we've ever had.

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[Blue_and_Whte]

Fultz actually did it. He conned his way in to a full 4 year rookie contract without playing any real basketball. His agent is amazing.

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Nevermind pepe.. Put sixers fans on suicide watch. They are TRIGGERED. :LOL:

[VFX]

The correct answer is when time comes to decide on contract #2.

His value and hopes of his return declines by the day but the complete “give up all hope” point is 2 years away.

If #1 pick Fultz can’t get significant minutes and contribute behind 32 year old DJ Augustine, after being medically cleared THIS season, then I’m giving up hope on him entirely. I don’t care what his contract is.

If he continues to sit until say the trade deadline and struggles with rust once inserted into the rotation for the final few months you would want us to roll out the Mozgov treatment for the final year of his contract?

Shortsighted much?

It’s not even about “struggling” or “rust”. It’s about him seeing the floor and being able to contribute in any way possible. He should be able to by at least December. Otherwise it’s all in his head and isn’t shortsighted to assume he’s been lying the whole time. Of course I would rather him prove all the naysayers wrong, but it’ll be a really bad look for this FO if he doesn’t adjust while being medically cleared. He’s competing against MCW for minutes who was barely even in the league a few years ago.