Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: It's B-ball Time !!!

[Blue_and_Whte]

So this was bugging me because both Bamba and Tobias were both 1 and done players, so how could Bamba be a year older than Tobias. Was Bamba so dumb he got held back a year? Did Tobias skip a year or cheaty face into kindergarten a year early like I did (Birthday was after the cut off, mom was a teach so the school let me start Kindergarten as a 4 year old)? Oh, it turns out that Pepe is incorrect. So, Bamba was born in May and Tobias was born in July, they were born seven years apart and drafted seven years apart. The Draft is in June, so Bamba would have been "20" for the draft while Tobias would have been "19". Even then, in their second year Bamba would be 2 months older than Tobias would have been in his second year, but Pepe reports that as a full year of difference.

Fake news?

Born in July of 1992, played rookie year that started in October of 2011 and finished in April 2012 means that he finished rookie year while still being 19 years old.

Born in May of 1998, played rookie year that started in October of 2018 and finished in April of 2019 means Mo Bamba was 20 during whole rookie year.

That is why basketball reference refer to Harris rookie year as "19 years old" and Bamba as "20" . because it's something factual

This is nothing new , Sekou Doumbouya and Talen Horton-Tucker are both 18 years old and will finish rookie years being just 19.
Where Doumbouya played in France he didn't fall into "regular"college rules, Talen actually did play at college, yet will still be just 18 when nba season starts, and 19 when it finishes, in mean time Cam Reddish played one year at college but is already 20.

Suggesting i'm doing "fake news" and in same time failing at 1st grade math is pretty sad.

As for how team performed with Bamba, net rating says it all.

You blame Ross and Evan for team's poor performance, yet ignore that Bamba played all the way until end of January, where team lost 9 of 12 games, yet, in second he is gone, team wins 6 of next 7 games and finishes month with 8 -3 record. Coincidence?

How about team having 17-3 record with Birch playing <15min while in mean time around 13-20 record when Bamba was playing <15 min'

The Magic had their worst net rating this year with Bamba on the court at -15.2 points per 100 possessions. Orlando gave up 108.3 points per 100 possessions with Bamba on the floor.

When Khem Birch was on the floor, the Magic had a +2.8 net rating and a 102.0 defensive rating.

As for pinning blame on Evan and TRoss

The three-man lineup of Mohamed Bamba, Aaron Gordon and Evan Fournier played together just 122 minutes together at a -23.4 net rating.

A lot of those had to come while the Magic were experimenting with a twin tower lineup of Bamba and Vucevic together on the floor. That unit. . . did not work — -37.5 net rating in 36 minutes.

So he was terrible with every single Magic starter.

I just don't get why it's so "taboo" to say that player sucked during rookie year? How many rookies don't ? Pretty much only all time greatest come off gate and are transending, even Lebron missed playoffs in rookie year.

Birch had a terrible record when he played more than 10 minutes with Grant was the backup. PG was the real big difference.

All of Bamba's games were with Grant as the backup and he was arguably the worst PG we've ever had.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

its better to just admit that Bamba was terrible and hope he improves than to create these excuses from the top of your head to try and discredit Birch. We were significantly better with Khem.

[basketballRob]

Born in July of 1992, played rookie year that started in October of 2011 and finished in April 2012 means that he finished rookie year while still being 19 years old.

Born in May of 1998, played rookie year that started in October of 2018 and finished in April of 2019 means Mo Bamba was 20 during whole rookie year.

That is why basketball reference refer to Harris rookie year as "19 years old" and Bamba as "20" . because it's something factual

This is nothing new , Sekou Doumbouya and Talen Horton-Tucker are both 18 years old and will finish rookie years being just 19.
Where Doumbouya played in France he didn't fall into "regular"college rules, Talen actually did play at college, yet will still be just 18 when nba season starts, and 19 when it finishes, in mean time Cam Reddish played one year at college but is already 20.

Suggesting i'm doing "fake news" and in same time failing at 1st grade math is pretty sad.

As for how team performed with Bamba, net rating says it all.

You blame Ross and Evan for team's poor performance, yet ignore that Bamba played all the way until end of January, where team lost 9 of 12 games, yet, in second he is gone, team wins 6 of next 7 games and finishes month with 8 -3 record. Coincidence?

How about team having 17-3 record with Birch playing <15min while in mean time around 13-20 record when Bamba was playing <15 min'

The Magic had their worst net rating this year with Bamba on the court at -15.2 points per 100 possessions. Orlando gave up 108.3 points per 100 possessions with Bamba on the floor.

When Khem Birch was on the floor, the Magic had a +2.8 net rating and a 102.0 defensive rating.

As for pinning blame on Evan and TRoss

The three-man lineup of Mohamed Bamba, Aaron Gordon and Evan Fournier played together just 122 minutes together at a -23.4 net rating.

A lot of those had to come while the Magic were experimenting with a twin tower lineup of Bamba and Vucevic together on the floor. That unit. . . did not work — -37.5 net rating in 36 minutes.

So he was terrible with every single Magic starter.

I just don't get why it's so "taboo" to say that player sucked during rookie year? How many rookies don't ? Pretty much only all time greatest come off gate and are transending, even Lebron missed playoffs in rookie year.

Birch had a terrible record when he played more than 10 minutes with Grant was the backup. PG was the real big difference.

All of Bamba's games were with Grant as the backup and he was arguably the worst PG we've ever had.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

its better to just admit that Bamba was terrible and hope he improves than to create these excuses from the top of your head to try and discredit Birch. We were significantly better with Khem.

Pepe is trying to blame the bad record on Bamba when Birch was just as bad when he played with Grant

I actually think Bamba played well.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[Def Swami]

Knightro you’re better than this. You have to take the long view and patient approach here. You are setting your own timeline for him which is what the sixers did and led them down the hate train. We have been given no official indication on when he will be back so throw your timeline away otherwise your gonna end up upset over something you set yourself up for.

It's appropriate to be skeptical about it for a myriad of reasons.

10 months is a long time to rehab for TOS. A lot of athletes would/could have had a surgery by now if there was no improvement after a few months of rehab. But they've obviously opted against that.

There is poor evidence regarding outcomes of TOS. Even if he does all of the treatment, there's no real guarantee that he'll ever be cured or feel better. And this has never really occurred in a professional basketball player that we know of; relatively more common in baseball players.

And there's the very real possibility that he doesn't have TOS. There is currently no single clinical sign that makes the diagnosis of TOS with any degree of certainty. TOS is a diagnosis of exclusion. He went to over 10 different physicians before he found one that diagnosed him with TOS. He was never deemed unfit to play, but he and his agent shut themselves down. TOS never affected his ability to take players off the dribble or throw down dunks in traffic. The diagnosis never made sense to me. It's absolutely possible that he simply has (hopefully "had") the "yips." You can't prove anyone has TOS. Which makes for a convenient diagnosis to appease a kid who is trying to explain suddenly losing a skill he mastered.

There's a lot of things about Fultz's situation that never really adds up. IMHO, it's still a mystery as to why he felt like he couldn't play. I'm pulling for him, like everyone else. Lord knows we need him to be good. But, there's a very good reason to be skeptical of this working out at all. And 10 months is a long time to rehab and still not be ready to participate in full contact.

that's not what a TOS surgeon describes:

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/12/13/18134738/markelle-fultz-injury-tos-thoratic-outlet-syndrome-doctor

The surgeon basically describes most of what I'm talking about.

TOS involves the brachial plexus, but it’s an undefined diagnosis. In reality, the region where those nerves could be potentially compressed or irritated is a large region. Most of the time, [TOS] is a diagnosis by exclusion, which means you’ve ruled everything else out, so then you fall onto thoracic outlet as a possible scenario.

There's no real way to diagnose this.

I don’t know what he might be doing in physical therapy that he hasn’t done already. Many times when patients have a problem, and you don’t really know what’s really going on, the reflex is to say, ‘Well, let’s do some physical therapy.’

A majority of the time, patients get better. Do they get better because of physical therapy? Probably not. They got better because it’s a self-limiting disease process and they were going to get better anyway.

This is anecdotal. If there was good data that shows this, I'm open to learning, but I have not seen it in my own research.

Unless it’s a definable area of constriction, like an accessory rib, or you get an ultrasound and you can see a specific area where the brachial plexus is getting compressed. For those patients, non-operable management is only appropriate if they say ‘I really don’t want surgery and my symptoms aren’t that bothersome.’

“They just try [physical therapy] because it’s morbid to go straight to surgery.”
If a patient has what you think is TOS, but you don’t know where the compression is, you try therapy with the hopes that things get better. What exactly is that therapy going to be? I don’t know. And I don’t think a lot of other people know. They just try it because it’s morbid to go straight to surgery.

If you’re going to take someone to the operating room for TOS, your degree of belief has to be very high that they have TOS and you should have strong evidence that there’s a focal area of compression, and you should know where that area is. If you don’t know where that area is, you shouldn’t take them to the operating room.

The idea of PT for treating TOS is kind of voodoo. Again, there's no good evidence that it does anything or works. It's literally as the surgeons says, "hope" that things get better.

In 10 months of rehab, if there was convincing evidence that he truly has TOS, then he could have had a surgery. If Fultz had TOS, an area of compression of his neurovascular bundle probably could have been identified sooner. The fact that it took so long to come to this diagnosis, and the fact that he has rehabbed without opting for surgery, makes me believe there was no area of compression identified. I'm purely speculating here. But, myself and other colleagues who view this from afar know that they'll never let him under the knife because his diagnosis is too vague to put him at risk for all the potential complications of a surgery for a diagnosis no one is really convinced by.

Pain is this incredibly debilitating thing to humans. You cannot ignore pain. Someone says ‘play through the pain.’ You can’t! You can’t put the pain out of your mind.

The one explanation that differs from my opinion is the idea that Fultz is able to complete every other skill except shooting because of the accuracy and hand-eye coordination required to shoot a basketball. I'm not completely convinced myself, but I can sort of buy it. At the same time, just as the surgeon describes, usually there's an obvious discomfort and numbness that shoots down the arm. Maybe Fultz has a high pain tolerance, but I've never seen him actually reveal a sign that he was in pain while watching him play. I won't argue with anyone if they say they're in pain, but you can see how it makes me a little skeptical that he truly fits the picture. If the man says he's in pain, I have to take him at his word.

But I'm not totally convinced that TOS is the culprit. And I'm not convinced anyone else is. And if it's not, then I'm not sure the rehab is going to pay off. And even if it is TOS, I'm still not sure the rehab is going to pay off. And that's basically my point.

[Knightro]

There are injuries that rehab takes a solid 9-12 months or longer before a player returns...and with some of those injuries it takes 2 years before a player gets back to their prior NBA form.

Its just not reasonable to put a totally arbitrary 10-12 month timeline on it. What is that based on?

What the Magic are doing will be the first "case study" for the treatment of TOS in the NBA. How in the world are you guys arriving at "if he's not ready by a couple months in the season then he'll never be ready?"

There's almost no injuries that take more than 10 months to rehab outside of the most catastrophic knee ligament and tendon injuries.

You're also again assuming that Fultz *actually* has TOS which is not something a lot of people truly accept is the reality.

[Knightro]

I'll go ahead and say it.

I do not believe Markelle Fultz currently has or has ever had Thoracic Outlet Syndrome.

My personal opinion is that Fultz opted to overhaul his jump shot between the 2017 Summer League and the start of the Sixers training camp in 2017.

The attempt to change his shot absolutely failed miserably to the point where he developed the yips which in turn led to a complete and utter crisis of confidence and he was basically shot from there.

In an effort to shoot his way through the yips, Fultz did genuinely develop wrist tendonitis, but IMO that's the only legitimate physical ailment he's ever actually had.

I think rather than admit he actually got the yips and suffered a crisis of confidence (remember this is a very immature and sheltered young man) which would cause some people to stop believing in his talent, he opted to pass the buck and blame any and all on the court shortcomings on a phantom injury v. a lack of basketball skill.

[thelead]

I'll go ahead and say it.

I do not believe Markelle Fultz currently has or has ever had Thoracic Outlet Syndrome.

My personal opinion is that Fultz opted to overhaul his jump shot between the 2017 Summer League and the start of the Sixers training camp in 2017.

The attempt to change his shot absolutely failed miserably to the point where he developed the yips which in turn led to a complete and utter crisis of confidence and he was basically shot from there.

In an effort to shoot his way through the yips, Fultz did genuinely develop wrist tendonitis, but IMO that's the only legitimate physical ailment he's ever actually had.

I think rather than admit he actually got the yips and suffered a crisis of confidence (remember this is a very immature and sheltered young man) which would cause some people to stop believing in his talent, he opted to pass the buck and blame any and all on the court shortcomings on a phantom injury v. a lack of basketball skill.

Who knows but you (and no one other than those in Fultz’ camp) have any facts to go by to make such an assumption. Why are so many people quick to create hypotheses with very little to go by?

Of all ‘rumors’, the easiest to believe is the bike accident but again, no one really knows.

I can’t wait to get the season started so we have something else to talk about.

[yoyojw17]

There are injuries that rehab takes a solid 9-12 months or longer before a player returns...and with some of those injuries it takes 2 years before a player gets back to their prior NBA form.

Its just not reasonable to put a totally arbitrary 10-12 month timeline on it. What is that based on?

What the Magic are doing will be the first "case study" for the treatment of TOS in the NBA. How in the world are you guys arriving at "if he's not ready by a couple months in the season then he'll never be ready?"

There's almost no injuries that take more than 10 months to rehab outside of the most catastrophic knee ligament and tendon injuries.

You're also again assuming that Fultz *actually* has TOS which is not something a lot of people truly accept is the reality.

But no one says he's been recovering for that amount of time. It's been stated that it is all precautionary and that they will take their time. soooooo.... what's the deal. There are so many random conjectures from people that were not in the loop.... why would i believe them over the people that are running our organization and work closely with him on a daily basis? If they resign him so quickly and easily I'm sure the have a great foundation to base that on. BUT.... there are always still no guarantees in anything in life.

[ezzzp]

10 months is a long time to rehab for TOS. A lot of athletes would/could have had a surgery by now if there was no improvement after a few months of rehab. But they've obviously opted against that.

This 10 month arbitrary timeline is what I was referring to. The article shows exactly how opaque the treatment is and why making up artificial timelines is pretty meaningless.

There just aren’t enough NBA precedents to say 10 months is too long.

The majority of cases have been baseball - and that sport’s rehab strategy for TOS isn’t the same. That was the mistake that Philadelphia made by setting their 3-6 week rehab timeline based on baseball player’s rehab schedule.

How the injury recovery impacts motion and how that relates to a players effectiveness is totally different for baseball.

[pepe1991]

No injury in modern sports requires +1 year of rehab, that's just crap.
Jusuf Nurkić had horrific compound fracture of both tibia and fibula, 3 months later he started with jogging.
Paul George and Hayward both have broken legs in most twisted way possible. Both menaged to rehab within one year.

Problem with Fultz is that his problems didn't start at December of 2018 but at summer of 2017 witch marks over 2 full calendar years since he was fine. Matter of fact you have to go back in March of 2017 and college hoops to remind yourself why he was top pick because everything that followed was disaster.

Also Uzoh is not only player that had TOS, Landry Fields also had it, never got better, had to retire. Guy shot 39% for 3 in rookie year, at age of 22, in second year his situation got worst and he dropped to 25% for 3. By the third year he lost feeling in his arm and stopped shooting, By the time he was 25 ,he was DNP guy , at age of 26 he retired.
Ofc nobody wants to bring him but Uzoh,because how he ended up. Nevermind Uzoh going from NBA to NIgerian league in times when players played there for 140 000 NN .. witch is cca $270 a month. I mean, highest soccer Nigerian players make around $1700 a month. To now playing in Belgia, another fringe basketball country. Is he really "happy end story" ? He earned more through 10 days contract in nba than he made combined, after it.

Overall, as two mods said and as i said even before trade to Magic, it's impossible to even be 100% sure he has TOS.
Yips is way more common in sports.
Also from some most infamous videos from him he seems to have motor tics ( that virtal video of him glitching , and his FT shooting). Simple motor tics may include movements such as eye-blinking, nose-twitching, head-jerking, or shoulder-shrugging. Similaritiy between TOS and tics are huge.

There is no known cause of transient tic disorder. Like Tourette syndrome and other tic disorders, a combination of factors influences it.

Some research indicates that tic disorders may be inherited. A genetic mutation can cause Tourette syndrome in rare cases.

Abnormalities in the brain may also be responsible for tic disorders. Such abnormalities are the cause of other mental conditions, such as depression and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).

Some research suggests that transient tic disorder could be linked to neurotransmitters. Neurotransmitters are the chemicals in the brain that transmit nerve signals to your cells. However, no studies offer complete proof of the role neurotransmitters play. Medications to treat transient tic disorder alter neurotransmitter levels.

[ezzzp]

There's almost no injuries that take more than 10 months to rehab outside of the most catastrophic knee ligament and tendon injuries.

You're also again assuming that Fultz *actually* has TOS which is not something a lot of people truly accept is the reality.

it’s not just knee injuries...achilles tears can take up to a year and even longer if there are complications...same thing with some foot fractures like what happened to Embiid pre draft.

I am not assuming anything- it was the diagnosis made by doctors...you are again assuming that the doctors are either incompetent or lying trying to deceive everyone

[ezzzp]

No injury in modern sports requires +1 year of rehab, that's just crap.
Jusuf Nurkić had horrific compound fracture of both tibia and fibula, 3 months later he started with jogging.
Paul George and Hayward both have broken legs in most twisted way possible. Both menaged to rehab within one year.

Problem with Fultz is that his problems didn't start at December of 2018 but at summer of 2017 witch marks over 2 full calendar years since he was fine. Matter of fact you have to go back in March of 2017 and college hoops to remind yourself why he was top pick because everything that followed was disaster.

Also Uzoh is not only player that had TOS, Landry Fields also had it, never got better, had to retire. Guy shot 39% for 3 in rookie year, at age of 22, in second year his situation got worst and he dropped to 25% for 3. By the third year he lost feeling in his arm and stopped shooting, By the time he was 25 ,he was DNP guy , at age of 26 he retired.
Ofc nobody wants to bring him but Uzoh,because how he ended up. Nevermind Uzoh going from NBA to NIgerian league in times when players played there for 140 000 NN .. witch is cca $270. I mean, highest soccer Nigerian players make around $1700 a month. To now playing in Belgia, another fringe basketball country.

Nobody brings up Landry Fields because Fields had nerve damage in his elbow - that is not the same thing as TOS.

....also Achilles tears can take a year, as well as some serious ligament and foot injuries (see Embiid) - many injuries also have complications or quick reoccurrence that extends rehab

...and Uzoh was a fringe NBA guy anyhow who had been suffering from TOS symptoms since 4th year in college but wasn't diagnosed for TOS until years later after he was cut from G-League team. https://theundefeated.com/features/former-nba-guard-ben-uzoh-has-dealt-with-markelle-fultzs-rare-injury-before/

[pepe1991]

No injury in modern sports requires +1 year of rehab, that's just crap.
Jusuf Nurkić had horrific compound fracture of both tibia and fibula, 3 months later he started with jogging.
Paul George and Hayward both have broken legs in most twisted way possible. Both menaged to rehab within one year.

Problem with Fultz is that his problems didn't start at December of 2018 but at summer of 2017 witch marks over 2 full calendar years since he was fine. Matter of fact you have to go back in March of 2017 and college hoops to remind yourself why he was top pick because everything that followed was disaster.

Also Uzoh is not only player that had TOS, Landry Fields also had it, never got better, had to retire. Guy shot 39% for 3 in rookie year, at age of 22, in second year his situation got worst and he dropped to 25% for 3. By the third year he lost feeling in his arm and stopped shooting, By the time he was 25 ,he was DNP guy , at age of 26 he retired.
Ofc nobody wants to bring him but Uzoh,because how he ended up. Nevermind Uzoh going from NBA to NIgerian league in times when players played there for 140 000 NN .. witch is cca $270. I mean, highest soccer Nigerian players make around $1700 a month. To now playing in Belgia, another fringe basketball country.

Landry Fields had nerve damage in his elbow- not the same thing...

....also Achilles tears can take a year, as well as some serious ligament and foot injuries (see Embiid) - many injuries also have complications or quick reoccurrence that extends rehab

https://streamable.com/63uzm#

does this look familiar?
He had few elbow surgeries and his nerve demage never went away. It's not same as TOS from medical perspective that nobody here really knows a lot about, but from mechanical and basketball perspective it's not really much different.
Achillie injury is tricky , first of all if you are not pro athlete you don't need surgery, results in recovery are the same, according to top doctors in that department. Athletes do it to speed it up.
Second issue and why it takes long is that your body wants to compensate issue by creating another, abnormal movment that leads to injury to other parts of the body, in healthy leg. So athletes need really focus on balancing up.

Embiid is 280 pounds, 7 footer, just like it's case with all other bigs, their weight and ubnormal size makes their legs vulnerable.

[ezzzp]

Landry Fields had nerve damage in his elbow- not the same thing...

....also Achilles tears can take a year, as well as some serious ligament and foot injuries (see Embiid) - many injuries also have complications or quick reoccurrence that extends rehab

https://streamable.com/63uzm#

does this look familiar?
He had few elbow surgeries and his nerve demage never went away. It's not same as TOS from medical perspective that nobody here really knows a lot about, but from mechanical and basketball perspective it's not really much different.
Achillie injury is tricky , first of all if you are not pro athlete you don't need surgery, results in recovery are the same, according to top doctors in that department. Athletes do it to speed it up.
Second issue and why it takes long is that your body wants to compensate issue by creating another, abnormal movment that leads to injury to other parts of the body, in healthy leg. So athletes need really focus on balancing up.

Embiid is 280 pounds, 7 footer, just like it's case with all other bigs, their weight and ubnormal size makes their legs vulnerable.

No it does not. Videos of two people limping does not mean that both people have the same injury.

What Landry had was a totally different injury, and to a different part of the body. One is nerve damage to the elbow, the other is compression of nerves in the thoracic (chest/shoulder area). Treatment, results etc are different.

There are many injuries that take over a year to recover from as every body is different + complications and re-occurence happen frequently...Its not just Embiid, there is a long list of players that prove that.

[pepe1991]

Landry Fields had nerve damage in his elbow- not the same thing...

....also Achilles tears can take a year, as well as some serious ligament and foot injuries (see Embiid) - many injuries also have complications or quick reoccurrence that extends rehab

https://streamable.com/63uzm#

does this look familiar?
He had few elbow surgeries and his nerve demage never went away. It's not same as TOS from medical perspective that nobody here really knows a lot about, but from mechanical and basketball perspective it's not really much different.
Achillie injury is tricky , first of all if you are not pro athlete you don't need surgery, results in recovery are the same, according to top doctors in that department. Athletes do it to speed it up.
Second issue and why it takes long is that your body wants to compensate issue by creating another, abnormal movment that leads to injury to other parts of the body, in healthy leg. So athletes need really focus on balancing up.

Embiid is 280 pounds, 7 footer, just like it's case with all other bigs, their weight and ubnormal size makes their legs vulnerable.

No it does not. Videos of two people limping does not mean that both people have the same injury.

What Landry had was a totally different injury, and to a different part of the body. One is nerve damage to the elbow, the other is compression of nerves in the thoracic (chest/shoulder area). Treatment, results etc are different.

There are many injuries that take over a year to recover from as every body is different + complications and re-occurence happen frequently...Its not just Embiid, there is a long list of players that prove that.

One is nerve damage to the elbow, the other is compression of nerves in the thoracic

There are 3 types of TOS

Venous TOS
Neurogenic TOS
Arterial TOS

odds are, if Fultz has TOS, it's most likley Neurogenic one. From 85-95% of all patients with TOS are affected by neurogenic TOS

Neurogenic TOS is most often caused by neck trauma, whiplash injuries or repetitive stress injury at work being the most common events that bring on symptoms. The injury results in over-stretching neck muscles which heal by forming scar tissue in the muscle. This in turn puts pressure against the nerves to the arm which causes the symptoms.

Venous TOS is fairly easily recognized by swelling of the entire arm and hand.
Arterial TOS is recognized by a hand that is colder and paler than the opposite normal hand of that person. The pulse at the wrist is usually diminished or absent.

In medical literature motorcycle accidents and baseball hitting are mentioned as most common triggers to NTOS in sports (again going back to old Fultz rumor). Neurogenic TOS accounts for approximately 95% of all cases, and it is usually caused by physical trauma (posttraumatic etiology), chronic repetitive motion (functional etiology), or bone or muscle anomalies (congenital etiology).


Again, Fultz isn't out since December of 2018, he has been out of basketball since summer of 2017. Guy played 30 games in 2 and half years and even that 30 games and through all of them he was on min restrictions

[cedric76]

Read on Twitter

Got my DVR set to record for a few hours both ways to make sure I get it.

Wondering when they will announce TV Schedule so we know how Preseason Games will be televised.

Would you be able to post it online for the non us fans?

Thank you so much

[Howard Mass]

Read on Twitter

Got my DVR set to record for a few hours both ways to make sure I get it.

Wondering when they will announce TV Schedule so we know how Preseason Games will be televised.

Would you be able to post it online for the non us fans?

Thank you so much

It was pretty good. I do not know how to post nor can I do that as an Administrator.

Hopefully, it will be available online or something.

We have close to 2 1/2 weeks before the first preseason game.

[Knightro]

it’s not just knee injuries...achilles tears can take up to a year and even longer if there are complications...same thing with some foot fractures like what happened to Embiid pre draft.

I am not assuming anything- it was the diagnosis made by doctors...you are again assuming that the doctors are either incompetent or lying trying to deceive everyone

Again... there’s one very key difference in every one of those scenarios compared to Fultz.

Guys like Joel Embiid, DeMarcus Cousins, Grant Hill, really any player who’s struggled to come back from a serious injury, there was a surgery performed by a medical professional and a definitive timeline laid out for the recovery process after said surgery.

Those players and others who didn’t make it back during the accepted recovery time from the medical community is because of a clearly defined setback in their recovery. They developed a staph infection, they re-broke the bone, they re-tore the ligament or tore another ligament overcompensating, there was a literal a botch during the initial surgery process, etc.

In all of those cases, something tangible happened which delayed the initial recovery time.

There has been no surgery for Fultz and my belief is that there never will be because that would make it “real”.

Beyond that, *doctors* didn't make this diagnosis. Def Swami and others have already explained that Fultz went to *ten* doctors and eventually was able to get one single doctor to actually give him a TOS diagnosis. Def Swami also explained in great detail what a TOS diagnosis actually means...

For all intents and purposes to get diagnosed with TOS *without* having a clear area of compression in your neurovascular bundle that can be alleviated with surgery, which is what almost always is the case with baseball players who opt to get the surgery as quickly as possible, means that the medical professionals can't figure out what's actually wrong with you.

“This patient says he’s hurting in this area of his neck/shoulder and we simply can’t figure out what it is. We’ve tested for countless other injuries and everything came back clean from a structural perspective, but the patient says he’s still hurting. The only thing it could be still based on what he is describing is TOS.”

[Blue_and_Whte]

Read on Twitter

I don’t think it’s fair to expect him to come back to UW form in year one. I hope everyone in here stays level headed about this.

[Ducklett]

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I don’t think it’s fair to expect him to come back to UW form in year one. I hope everyone in here stays level headed about this.

This is the Orlando Magic RealGM board. People want to trade Bamba after a injury riddled rookie season. Many people wanted to trade Isaac last off season after a similarly bad rookie campaign. If Fultz doesn't drop 20ppg, people are going to call him a bust within a few weeks.

[MoMM]

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I don’t think it’s fair to expect him to come back to UW form in year one. I hope everyone in here stays level headed about this.

This is the Orlando Magic RealGM board. People want to trade Bamba after a injury riddled rookie season. Many people wanted to trade Isaac last off season after a similarly bad rookie campaign. If Fultz doesn't drop 20ppg, people are going to call him a bust within a few weeks.

I don't think so, everyone is expecting that at best he will be a good backup next season, no one is expecting big minutes or a #1 pick production level in fewer minutes (PER36). If he becomes a good backup PG next season, I'm satisfied.