could elena delle donne play in the nba?

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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#201 » by gundysmullet » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:48 am

triple_threat wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:I won't say that no woman will ever play in the NBA but I seriously doubt any of the current WNBA will be the one to break that wall down. Quickness, strength, height all play a factor - the right woman may some day appear.


Explain how. And please use critical thinking, logic and reason. Thanks


Sex change

So a biological mail has surgery to appear like a female? He will be taking so many female hormones that it would negate the athleticism that he may have had to begin with to be good enough to be in the NBA. Now a biological man who becomes a female to play in the WNBA may still dominate.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#202 » by Hoopstar23 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:55 am

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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#203 » by pickIBL » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:58 am

dc wrote:
PlatinumState wrote:Wow 9 pages of a nonsense hypothetical. Preseason cant come fast enough


Needs to be corrected, because there are some people in society who really believe it's possible when in fact it's not even close to being possible.

And it really disrespect/ignores just how good even the end of bench guys or guys who get invited the training camp but are cut within a week. Guys who this board consider to be "scrubs". You have to be an UNBELIEVABLY good basketball player to get invited to an NBA training camp, even if you're one of the guys who gets cut the first week.

These "scrubs" absolutely would WIPE THE FLOOR against the best women's players in history .........and it would be the same for soccer, hockey or basketball.

Name a random scrub who got cut 5 years ago from an NBA training camp. Unless that guy is now totally out of shape or physically crippled, he'd destroy Elena Delle Donne or Diana Taurasi or any other woman who's ever played basketball.


Yep, this is a no brainer. You can find plenty of high school ladies teams where a freshman is the best player. Girls never develop like the boys.

This type of thinking has come from conflating equality with sameness. We all deserve equal opportunities, but outcomes have to be earned. Once you start down that track of the only differences between boys and girls is what society pushes on them... then you are on the bus to crazy town. An example of how the left can lose it's way.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#204 » by clyde21 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:46 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
ehh, not to sound too insensitive, but it's not a hard decision, they're more than welcome to identify as they please and I respect that, but that doesn't mean we have to warp reality and millions of years of evolution to accommodate it. plastic surgery and hormone adjustments don't change the fact that biological males are born with different bone density, muscle mass, different cell and skeletal structures, etc.

and again, allowing biological males to participate in women competitions only undermines the biological women themselves who have been working their entire lives at that particular sport.

this is a new study which explains it further:



https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190723092111.htm


Ya I don't think it's a hard decision at all. Should a man be able to transition and compete in women's mma? I don't think that is a tough question at all, absolutely not. It's not just an unfair competitive advantage in a sport like MMA, you're putting women at serious risk. Other sports like basketball, tennis, soccer and so on, there is no major physical risk (on the same level as a physical sport like MMA). But there is a reason sports are separated by gender, there is a clear biological gap physically and athletically. Just because someone identifies a certain way, it doesn't change their biological advantages. Even when they take the hormones, it doesn't make it an even competition.


This is why I said that i'm glad I have nothing to do with making these decisions. I respect transgender rights, but if you asked me if a transgender man should get in the ring with a cis man at the same weight class in a boxing match or MMA fight I would say hell no. And I think this is a conversation that needs to be had in terms of sports and the inclusiveness of transgender athletes. We have to acknowledge and accept physical differences between genders regardless of what people identify as because we have conclusive data and evidence that says that outside of certain sports, men have an advantage over women in terms of strength and athleticism. I hope that it can be done in a way that is respectful to all parties involved.


one way around it, per the article I posted above, is to implement 2 extra divisions, 1 for transgender women and 1 for transgender men...but not really sure if there would be enough competitors there and enough interest to make it happen.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#205 » by gundysmullet » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:50 am

clyde21 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Ya I don't think it's a hard decision at all. Should a man be able to transition and compete in women's mma? I don't think that is a tough question at all, absolutely not. It's not just an unfair competitive advantage in a sport like MMA, you're putting women at serious risk. Other sports like basketball, tennis, soccer and so on, there is no major physical risk (on the same level as a physical sport like MMA). But there is a reason sports are separated by gender, there is a clear biological gap physically and athletically. Just because someone identifies a certain way, it doesn't change their biological advantages. Even when they take the hormones, it doesn't make it an even competition.


This is why I said that i'm glad I have nothing to do with making these decisions. I respect transgender rights, but if you asked me if a transgender man should get in the ring with a cis man at the same weight class in a boxing match or MMA fight I would say hell no. And I think this is a conversation that needs to be had in terms of sports and the inclusiveness of transgender athletes. We have to acknowledge and accept physical differences between genders regardless of what people identify as because we have conclusive data and evidence that says that outside of certain sports, men have an advantage over women in terms of strength and athleticism. I hope that it can be done in a way that is respectful to all parties involved.


one way around it, per the article I posted above, is to implement 2 extra divisions, 1 for transgender women and 1 for transgender men...but not really sure if there would be enough competitors there and enough interest to make it happen.

Or, here is an even better idea… How about we help them get the mental health services that they deserve so they can seek treatment and stop being confused about their gender? The suicide rate amongst people who are confused about their gender is astronomical. It’s actually heartbreaking and up until 20 years ago it was treated like the mental health issue that it is. But hyper political correctness has now superseded factual correctness and a lie now being promoted as the truth and it does a disservice to the people that suffer from this mental health issue.

Strike for trolling and offensive behaviour.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#206 » by Egg Nog » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:07 am

gundysmullet wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
This is why I said that i'm glad I have nothing to do with making these decisions. I respect transgender rights, but if you asked me if a transgender man should get in the ring with a cis man at the same weight class in a boxing match or MMA fight I would say hell no. And I think this is a conversation that needs to be had in terms of sports and the inclusiveness of transgender athletes. We have to acknowledge and accept physical differences between genders regardless of what people identify as because we have conclusive data and evidence that says that outside of certain sports, men have an advantage over women in terms of strength and athleticism. I hope that it can be done in a way that is respectful to all parties involved.


one way around it, per the article I posted above, is to implement 2 extra divisions, 1 for transgender women and 1 for transgender men...but not really sure if there would be enough competitors there and enough interest to make it happen.

Or, here is an even better idea… How about we help them get the mental health services that they deserve so they can seek treatment and stop being confused about their gender? The suicide rate amongst people who are confused about their gender is astronomical. It’s actually heartbreaking and up until 20 years ago it was treated like the mental health issue that it is. But hyper political correctness has now superseded factual correctness and a lie now being promoted as the truth and it does a disservice to the people that suffer from this mental health issue.


The primary reason their suicide rates are so high are people such as yourself who dismiss them as confused and in need of treatment, you total sack of crap. You have absolutely no idea what it's like to be these people.

Strike for personal attack.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#207 » by gundysmullet » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:25 am

Egg Nog wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
one way around it, per the article I posted above, is to implement 2 extra divisions, 1 for transgender women and 1 for transgender men...but not really sure if there would be enough competitors there and enough interest to make it happen.

Or, here is an even better idea… How about we help them get the mental health services that they deserve so they can seek treatment and stop being confused about their gender? The suicide rate amongst people who are confused about their gender is astronomical. It’s actually heartbreaking and up until 20 years ago it was treated like the mental health issue that it is. But hyper political correctness has now superseded factual correctness and a lie now being promoted as the truth and it does a disservice to the people that suffer from this mental health issue.


The primary reason their suicide rates are so high are people such as yourself who dismiss them as confused and in need of treatment, you total sack of crap. You have absolutely no idea what it's like to be these people.

That is a complete lie. They are suicidal because they’re confused and if you look at the studies even after they try to change the gender they are still suicidal and depressed. I am reporting your post because it was a direct insult which is against the terms of service. If you actually read my post instead of being woke you would see how much compassion I have for these people. But you don’t care about the truth you just want to virtual signal and show how “tolerant” you are. It’s not tolerant to tell people that they are whatever they want to be, It’s perpetuating a lie simply so you can feel good about yourself. It’s all about you, shame on you!
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#208 » by NY 567 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:53 am

I respect her and she's extremely skilled, but she'd lack the physical and athletic ability to play defense, she'd be Isaiah Thomas times 10 as a liability on the defense end of the floor. Offensively, she obviously wouldn't be able to create anything whatsoever, but I'm sure she could knock down open shots.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#209 » by Egg Nog » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:42 am

gundysmullet wrote:
Egg Nog wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:Or, here is an even better idea… How about we help them get the mental health services that they deserve so they can seek treatment and stop being confused about their gender? The suicide rate amongst people who are confused about their gender is astronomical. It’s actually heartbreaking and up until 20 years ago it was treated like the mental health issue that it is. But hyper political correctness has now superseded factual correctness and a lie now being promoted as the truth and it does a disservice to the people that suffer from this mental health issue.


The primary reason their suicide rates are so high are people such as yourself who dismiss them as confused and in need of treatment, you total sack of crap. You have absolutely no idea what it's like to be these people.

That is a complete lie. They are suicidal because they’re confused and if you look at the studies even after they try to change the gender they are still suicidal and depressed. I am reporting your post because it was a direct insult which is against the terms of service. If you actually read my post instead of being woke you would see how much compassion I have for these people. But you don’t care about the truth you just want to virtual signal and show how “tolerant” you are. It’s not tolerant to tell people that they are whatever they want to be, It’s perpetuating a lie simply so you can feel good about yourself. It’s all about you, shame on you!


Report away.

I could care less about political correctness and keeping up appearances of tolerance. I hate hypersensitive PC culture. I don't wear tie-dye and go to protests. Like an absolute tool fantasizing in your own head, you're assuming my position and you're assuming it dead wrong.

Here's the thing: I have a couple of friends who are trans and are vastly happier now than they were when they were younger...one I have known for 20 years. They are great people. They are not suicidal or crazy. Their depression has virtually disappeared after transitioning. They feel like they are finally themselves. It certainly doesn't hurt that they are woman-to-man transitions and you would never guess that they used to be women, but of course the reason that actually helps is that it protects them from the savagely depressing judgement that others deal with on a daily basis.

To dismiss trans people as categorically confused and in need of help is utterly ridiculous. I'm not defending a political agenda, I'm defending people I know and love. Take your accusations of "virtue signalling" and shove them where they belong.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#210 » by mixerball » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:29 am

post wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
post wrote:
wnba teams have played scrimmages against men's teams that have 3 divison 1 men's college players and the men only won by a couple points

wnba teams have also played scrimmage games against men that had tyus jones who now plays in the nba for minnesota. other scrimmages had players who were trying out for european teams and g league teams

the basic point is the women regularly practice against men, some of whom range from division 1 to borderline g league players and one known case of an nba player

anyway, it's interesting to see people's opinions. there's obviously a very wide variety of opinion out there as to what men delle donne should be compared to, ranging from high school kids to all three divisions of college basketball to at best an nba level shooter with defensive liabilities

i have no definitive opinion on the issue. i'd pay money to see her play some of the really bad nba bums who don't belong in the league. maybe she could beat them out and become a poor man's steve kerr in the nba. if she can't cut it, oh well, maybe some chick in the future will


There is no argument for this. You are doing her a massive disservice by trying to compare her to an NBA level player, because there is no comparison and if you are honest about the conversation nba level players blow her out of the water.

Her shooting numbers mean absolutely nothing because of the smaller ball and small and unathletic defense she plays against. I'm sorry but there isn't even a debate or discussion on "if" she can be a poor man's Steve Kerr or cut it as an end of the bench NBA player. This is not a realistic conversation in any sense of the word.


ok, there's no debate in your opinion, but everybody keeps debating it

i don't have anything else to add at this point i haven't already said. i've provided a lot of information quite a few people probably weren't familiar with and they can make up their own mind

i'll just point out david stern said 10 years ago there's a good possibility a woman will play in the nba within ten years. well 10 years later delle donne has a historic season. lebron said ten years ago it would take longer than 10 years for a woman to make it in the nba. everyone who think it's not going to happen/that they have a higher basketball iq than lebron is probably in some kind of denial

he meant a million years.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#211 » by Archijs » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:05 am

If there would be any level of male competition where top females could play apart from pick-up games then it would have already happened.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#212 » by post » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:34 am

Archijs wrote:If there would be any level of male competition where top females could play apart from pick-up games then it would have already happened.


not necessarily. there's a lot of inertia and bias and power at play when it comes to these things. i'm not saying delle donne could definitely play in the nba, but if she could, it would be naive to think they definitely would let her
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#213 » by 13th Man » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:53 am

Egg Nog wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:
Egg Nog wrote:
The primary reason their suicide rates are so high are people such as yourself who dismiss them as confused and in need of treatment, you total sack of crap. You have absolutely no idea what it's like to be these people.

That is a complete lie. They are suicidal because they’re confused and if you look at the studies even after they try to change the gender they are still suicidal and depressed. I am reporting your post because it was a direct insult which is against the terms of service. If you actually read my post instead of being woke you would see how much compassion I have for these people. But you don’t care about the truth you just want to virtual signal and show how “tolerant” you are. It’s not tolerant to tell people that they are whatever they want to be, It’s perpetuating a lie simply so you can feel good about yourself. It’s all about you, shame on you!


Report away.

I could care less about political correctness and keeping up appearances of tolerance. I hate hypersensitive PC culture. I don't wear tie-dye and go to protests. Like an absolute tool fantasizing in your own head, you're assuming my position and you're assuming it dead wrong.

Here's the thing: I have a couple of friends who are trans and are vastly happier now than they were when they were younger...one I have known for 20 years. They are great people. They are not suicidal or crazy. Their depression has virtually disappeared after transitioning. They feel like they are finally themselves. It certainly doesn't hurt that they are woman-to-man transitions and you would never guess that they used to be women, but of course the reason that actually helps is that it protects them from the savagely depressing judgement that others deal with on a daily basis.

To dismiss trans people as categorically confused and in need of help is utterly ridiculous. I'm not defending a political agenda, I'm defending people I know and love. Take your accusations of "virtue signalling" and shove them where they belong.


I don't think that anybody is hating on trans, I hope that they can all find peace and happiness within themselves as your friends did. With this said, there are a few things that bother me about the transgender initiative:

- The alarming high suicide rates - Stats do not lie, if one group is offing themselves at a rate 20+ times the average. It's like you trying to convince me that Shaq is a good free throw shooter because he hit 2 FTs in a row, but what about the overall stats? If they are all totally happy and not confused, why this alarmingly high suicide rate?

- Parents pushing children into switching - This is mental and physical child abuse imo. Kids don't know any better and should not be subjected to this, even worse they're now starting to teach this stuff in early education so that kids could become woke from kindergarten, grade 1 or whatever. Kids are not smart or wise enough to be aware of who they should be or make these kinds of decisions, heck most don't even know if they're gay/lesbian until reaching puberty. At least the gay or lesbian are determined by genetics, that is who they are by genetic makeup.

As we know, depression is a real problem in society today, notably with the younger generation as well. What we don't want to do is falsely presenting them with an "escape route", for them become happier when this is not necessarily the most viable avenue. *please refer back to the alarmingly high suicide rates amongst members of this community.

- Biological males competing as females - Does this need further debate? Just look at records are being smashed and female competitors getting demolished in physical or combat sports.

I work with the military and there are a few trans members, I have no issues with them. I treat them professionally and with the respect that they deserve, however I will never acknowledge them as a person from a different gender because they are not. I acknowledge them as being trans.

If I met a nice looking trans female at a bar, I could quite possibly be fooled and start to flirt with "her". Once "she" let me be aware that "she" is trans, and this better be way before the bedroom, I would simply tell "her", "It was nice talking to you, have a good evening." Simple as that, no problems there just a little bit of time wasted by me not being able to interact with real women as intended but it's all good. Please don't guilt me for not accepting "her" as a female because she's not one. I'm cool with this as long as we're all on the same page understanding the reality of the situation.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#214 » by 13th Man » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:57 am

post wrote:
Archijs wrote:If there would be any level of male competition where top females could play apart from pick-up games then it would have already happened.


not necessarily. there's a lot of inertia and bias and power at play when it comes to these things. i'm not saying delle donne could definitely play in the nba, but if she could, it would be naive to think they definitely would let her


We definitely would. Look up Manon Rheaume. She played men's professional hockey from 1992 - 1997, not NHL level but still. This was way before people became woke, so we would definitely accept her now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manon_Rhéaume

She was totally trash as a goaltender in men's league but we let her keep playing for years, no other guy would have so many chances with a career GAA of over 5.0
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#215 » by triple_threat » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:08 pm

gundysmullet wrote:
triple_threat wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:
Explain how. And please use critical thinking, logic and reason. Thanks


Sex change

So a biological mail has surgery to appear like a female? He will be taking so many female hormones that it would negate the athleticism that he may have had to begin with to be good enough to be in the NBA. Now a biological man who becomes a female to play in the WNBA may still dominate.


If a dwight howard like athlete had a sex change she would make it
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#216 » by Porzingod » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:15 pm

In my school there were several women who were playing for our national team - a team which always finishes at least top 10 in Europe so they were playing on a pretty high level. Some of them are now professionals.
After school we were often playing pick-up games with them and they were getting absolutely destroyed by guys who in most cases only played pick-up games and had never seriously trained in basketball. Of course they could shoot and make some open shots but nothing more because even an average male with 20% body fat was still much faster and more athletic than them. I can only imagine how these women would look against guys who had at least done SOME professional training in basketball and were in top shape. Random guys with close to 0 training destroying female players from national team pretty much sums up if there will ever by any female WNBA player.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#217 » by binjumper » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:19 pm

Look there is no rule stopping them from playing in the NBA. The reason they don't is they won't make it. Females are allowed in the NBA.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#218 » by post » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:26 pm

13th Man wrote:
post wrote:
Archijs wrote:If there would be any level of male competition where top females could play apart from pick-up games then it would have already happened.


not necessarily. there's a lot of inertia and bias and power at play when it comes to these things. i'm not saying delle donne could definitely play in the nba, but if she could, it would be naive to think they definitely would let her


We definitely would. Look up Manon Rheaume. She played men's professional hockey from 1992 - 1997, not NHL level but still. This was way before people became woke, so we would definitely accept her now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manon_Rhéaume

She was totally trash as a goaltender in men's league but we let her keep playing for years, no other guy would have so many chances with a career GAA of over 5.0


possibly, not definitely. pointing to one example of a minor league hockey player doesn't change what i said. society is not as "woke" as people who use the term "woke" often think it is

rheaume at least had a 3.9 gaa and an 88.5 save percentage in 8 games in 93-94 back when scoring was higher in hockey. probably more impressive than anything malachi richardson did in college or the nba with his 36.9 field goal percentage in one year at syracuse and his career minus 6.8 box plus minus in the nba
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#219 » by 13th Man » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:29 pm

post wrote:
13th Man wrote:
post wrote:
not necessarily. there's a lot of inertia and bias and power at play when it comes to these things. i'm not saying delle donne could definitely play in the nba, but if she could, it would be naive to think they definitely would let her


We definitely would. Look up Manon Rheaume. She played men's professional hockey from 1992 - 1997, not NHL level but still. This was way before people became woke, so we would definitely accept her now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manon_Rhéaume

She was totally trash as a goaltender in men's league but we let her keep playing for years, no other guy would have so many chances with a career GAA of over 5.0


possibly, not definitely. pointing to one example of a minor league hockey player doesn't change what i said. society is not as "woke" as people who use the term "woke" often think it is

rheaume at least had a 3.9 gaa and an 88.5 save percentage in 8 games in 93-94 back when scoring was higher in hockey. probably more impressive than anything malachi richardson did in college or the nba with his 36.9 field goal percentage in one year at syracuse and his career minus 6.8 box plus minus in the nba


I just googled statistics for ECHL goalies: https://www.echl.com/en/statistics#select_statistics-seasons=8&tab_statistics-players=goalies

I chose 2017-2018 regular season stats since you can't go back as far as 1993. Notice that Manon Rheaume's best year's stats would rank her just about last of all goalies in the ECHL last year. Mosf of them have a higher than 90% save percentage and GAA less than 3.

The fact that she was able to play 11 games in the WCHL in 96-97 with a horrendous save percentage of 86% and GAA of 5.65 shows that she was given way more leeway than the rest.

I remember them trying to push hard for her to play a game in the NHL, good thing the NHL didn't bite on it. Imagine her trying to stop a slapshot from Mario Lemieux or stop a breakaway from Sergei Federov? Would have been an embarrassing sight to watch.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#220 » by og15 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:42 pm

13th Man wrote:
Egg Nog wrote:
gundysmullet wrote: That is a complete lie. They are suicidal because they’re confused and if you look at the studies even after they try to change the gender they are still suicidal and depressed. I am reporting your post because it was a direct insult which is against the terms of service. If you actually read my post instead of being woke you would see how much compassion I have for these people. But you don’t care about the truth you just want to virtual signal and show how “tolerant” you are. It’s not tolerant to tell people that they are whatever they want to be, It’s perpetuating a lie simply so you can feel good about yourself. It’s all about you, shame on you!


Report away.

I could care less about political correctness and keeping up appearances of tolerance. I hate hypersensitive PC culture. I don't wear tie-dye and go to protests. Like an absolute tool fantasizing in your own head, you're assuming my position and you're assuming it dead wrong.

Here's the thing: I have a couple of friends who are trans and are vastly happier now than they were when they were younger...one I have known for 20 years. They are great people. They are not suicidal or crazy. Their depression has virtually disappeared after transitioning. They feel like they are finally themselves. It certainly doesn't hurt that they are woman-to-man transitions and you would never guess that they used to be women, but of course the reason that actually helps is that it protects them from the savagely depressing judgement that others deal with on a daily basis.

To dismiss trans people as categorically confused and in need of help is utterly ridiculous. I'm not defending a political agenda, I'm defending people I know and love. Take your accusations of "virtue signalling" and shove them where they belong.


I don't think that anybody is hating on trans, I hope that they can all find peace and happiness within themselves as your friends did. With this said, there are a few things that bother me about the transgender initiative:

- The alarming high suicide rates - Stats do not lie, if one group is offing themselves at a rate 20+ times the average. It's like you trying to convince me that Shaq is a good free throw shooter because he hit 2 FTs in a row, but what about the overall stats? If they are all totally happy and not confused, why this alarmingly high suicide rate?

- Parents pushing children into switching - This is mental and physical child abuse imo. Kids don't know any better and should not be subjected to this, even worse they're now starting to teach this stuff in early education so that kids could become woke from kindergarten, grade 1 or whatever. Kids are not smart or wise enough to be aware of who they should be or make these kinds of decisions, heck most don't even know if they're gay/lesbian until reaching puberty. At least the gay or lesbian are determined by genetics, that is who they are by genetic makeup.

As we know, depression is a real problem in society today, notably with the younger generation as well. What we don't want to do is falsely presenting them with an "escape route", for them become happier when this is not necessarily the most viable avenue. *please refer back to the alarmingly high suicide rates amongst members of this community.

- Biological males competing as females - Does this need further debate? Just look at records are being smashed and female competitors getting demolished in physical or combat sports.

I work with the military and there are a few trans members, I have no issues with them. I treat them professionally and with the respect that they deserve, however I will never acknowledge them as a person from a different gender because they are not. I acknowledge them as being trans.

If I met a nice looking trans female at a bar, I could quite possibly be fooled and start to flirt with "her". Once "she" let me be aware that "she" is trans, and this better be way before the bedroom, I would simply tell "her", "It was nice talking to you, have a good evening." Simple as that, no problems there just a little bit of time wasted by me not being able to interact with real women as intended but it's all good. Please don't guilt me for not accepting "her" as a female because she's not one. I'm cool with this as long as we're all on the same page understanding the reality of the situation.
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Don't want to stay off topic, but even that isn't simply biology, a big study on trying to determine the "gay gene" was recently concluded and the results did not support there being a specific genetic marker.


Ganna and his colleagues also used the analysis to estimate that up to 25% of sexual behaviour can be explained by genetics, with the rest influenced by environmental and cultural factors — a figure similar to the findings of smaller studies.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02585-6

Us humans are usually more complicated than we want ourselves to be.

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