Nuggets players at FIBA World Cup 2019 (China, Aug 31 - Sep 15)

[TunaFish]

Anybody catch Jokic's pass in the Angola game?

https://streamable.com/0y0tt

[NuggetsWY]

Jokic's Serbia outclassed Angola 105-59, while Juancho's Spain outclassed Tunisia 101-62. Jokic (14-5-6, 3p 3/3) once again played most minutes at power forward position, and once again coming from the bench, and even played several minutes during garbage time in final quarter when Serbia lead 40+. Serbia is just too good for all worlds national teams, except few ones, but I don't like to see Jokic used in the wrong way. On positive note, at least he played more playmaker role than usual. Juancho (13-8) didn't miss a single shot today, and because of blowout victory he played just 18 minutes, otherwise, his numbers would be even better.

Like so many coaches, he has his system and every player will play within HIS system - I call that being stupid.

[Mickey8]

I dont like how he's been used neither , he can play PF only with Milutinov on the floor, by the way the Nuggets should try to acquire his rights from San Antonio he would be a great back up to Jokic. But I except Jokic to play five a lot as the tournament progresses and Serbia faces better competition, his minutes will go up and he will play lots of minutes with Bjelica. He was great today with Milutinov and in general when he was on the floor, some great assists we are used to see from him when he plays for the Nuggets.

[THE J0KER]

In the past two days, all three Nuggets played. Plumlee (3rb, 1bl) played just 5 minutes in a routine USA win vs Czechia 88-67. Juancho is not so impressive like in first game, but 8-5-1-1 are enough to be third most useful Spaniard (after M.Gasol and Rubio) in 73-63 win vs Puerto Rico. Jokic (11-7-7) once again played primarily as PF, coming from the bench, and have limited minutes (under 20), but once again nice to see him running Serbian team offense as true playmaker, similar to his NBA career standards. Serbia crushed the Philippines 126-67 with broken all-time World Cup record with 37 assists.

[NuggetsWY]

In the past two days, all three Nuggets played. Plumlee (3rb, 1bl) played just 5 minutes in a routine USA win vs Czechia 88-67. Juancho is not so impressive like in first game, but 8-5-1-1 are enough to be third most useful Spaniard (after M.Gasol and Rubio) in 73-63 win vs Puerto Rico. Jokic (11-7-7) once again played primarily as PF, coming from the bench, and have limited minutes (under 20), but once again nice to see him running Serbian team offense as true playmaker, similar to his NBA career standards. Serbia crushed the Philippines 126-67 with broken all-time World Cup record with 37 assists.

I really like the way Plumlee is being used - certainly easier to manage than Jokic but the comparison demonstrates the difference in coaching styles.

[Popovich]

I understand that you guys would like to see Jokic on center position but let me explain you why coach Djordjevic's decision to put him on PF is totally correct. First of all Serbia brought only 3 small players on this championship, 2 point-guards and one shooting guard. For Jokic there aren't any quick, cutting to basket guards to cooperate with (hand-offs, pick and poison) such is the case in the Nuggets team. Secondly, Serbia brought 4 centers where besides Jokic only Raduljica (who lost a lot of body mass) can be placed at PF, and that is from recently, still in experimental phase as Raduljica played his whole career down low. When all this is taken under consideration you can see that by using Jokic as a center you are wasting one or two other big's.
Third reason is that Milutinov is really playing great, IMO on defending opponent's big's he's even better than other Nikola and Marjanovic is always useful when mismatches are being searched and plays are designed for him. I am sure we will see less of Boban and Jokic together as the tournament progress.

Surelly this role will be interesting to observe for coach Malone, it's nothing he didn't know but still...
So in a current system you can see Jokic in a different role where he is standing outside or at elbow and directing traffic from there, his court vision is very useful asset here, he will often pass across an entire opponents defense finding open shooters on the other side. He can lob or oop pass to Milutinov, find cutters as usual or working to post himself, also you can't leave him open 3pt shot. On the other side, yes he will record less rebounds, steals, touch down dimes and we'll even see less P&R actions. At this position he is saving more strength for upcoming tough games where I still see him playing maximum of 30 minutes, maybe not even that much. To summarize my words, his new role is primarily to set others, particularly other big's. This does't mean we ain't gonna see him playing at center position, I am sure he will if there is need for that.

[skywalker33]

Well, I’m ok with Jokic getting some PT at the 4, may create some eventual mismatches/switch capabilities with Bol Bol

[THE J0KER]

I understand that you guys would like to see Jokic on center position but let me explain you why coach Djordjevic's decision to put him on PF is totally correct. First of all Serbia brought only 3 small players on this championship, 2 point-guards and one shooting guard. For Jokic there aren't any quick, cutting to basket guards to cooperate with (hand-offs, pick and poison) such is the case in the Nuggets team. Secondly, Serbia brought 4 centers where besides Jokic only Raduljica (who lost a lot of body mass) can be placed at PF, and that is from recently, still in experimental phase as Raduljica played his whole career down low. When all this is taken under consideration you can see that by using Jokic as a center you are wasting one or two other big's.
Third reason is that Milutinov is really playing great, IMO on defending opponent's big's he's even better than other Nikola and Marjanovic is always useful when mismatches are being searched and plays are designed for him. I am sure we will see less of Boban and Jokic together as the tournament progress.

Surelly this role will be interesting to observe for coach Malone, it's nothing he didn't know but still...
So in a current system you can see Jokic in a different role where he is standing outside or at elbow and directing traffic from there, his court vision is very useful asset here, he will often pass across an entire opponents defense finding open shooters on the other side. He can lob or oop pass to Milutinov, find cutters as usual or working to post himself, also you can't leave him open 3pt shot. On the other side, yes he will record less rebounds, steals, touch down dimes and we'll even see less P&R actions. At this position he is saving more strength for upcoming tough games where I still see him playing maximum of 30 minutes, maybe not even that much. To summarize my words, his new role is primarily to set others, particularly other big's. This does't mean we ain't gonna see him playing at center position, I am sure he will if there is need for that.

Well argued! But...

When I lamenting and moaning about this issue here, it is actually not like Nuggets fan, not even as Jokic fan, but mostly as Serbia national team fan! Back in 2016, Denver has two very talented big men, Jokic and Nurkic. Nurkic was old school classic center which can't play anything else, so Jokic was sent at PF spot. But in reality, it much better worked with JokicC-FariedPF duo than NurkicC-JokicPF, despite Nurkic was clearly already better and more talented player than Faried, plus superior on defensive end! So how it happens? Simply, Jokic as "PF" is about 20% less productive and valuable option than as "C"! In the meantime, Jokic evolved into TOP3 big man (if not the best), so even if you cut-off 20% of his production, he is still All-Star level player and best Serbian player around... but not a monster we know from All-NBA first team.

I was more furious at Jokic role during preparation games because he was also not used as a playmaker, so he averages something like 10 points and 3 assists for 20 minutes, but in the last two friendly games and in both WC games so far it is changed, and he finally takes much more playmaking duties. I was also furious on the coach Djordjevic for cutting-off Serbian 2nd best forward (after Bjelica) Nikola Kalinic from bizarre reasons and replacing him which much less talented Bircevic (after injury of very decent Milosavljevic). Because of that Jokic is now destined to play many power forward minutes instead of "C", while Bjelica will play many SF instead of PF which is his more natural position. I especially don't like to see Jokic as full-time PF, which is the case so far in China. But now is too late anyway, so I just want to enjoy this tournament until the end.

[NuggetsWY]

I understand that you guys would like to see Jokic on center position but let me explain you why coach Djordjevic's decision to put him on PF is totally correct. First of all Serbia brought only 3 small players on this championship, 2 point-guards and one shooting guard. For Jokic there aren't any quick, cutting to basket guards to cooperate with (hand-offs, pick and poison) such is the case in the Nuggets team. Secondly, Serbia brought 4 centers where besides Jokic only Raduljica (who lost a lot of body mass) can be placed at PF, and that is from recently, still in experimental phase as Raduljica played his whole career down low. When all this is taken under consideration you can see that by using Jokic as a center you are wasting one or two other big's.
Third reason is that Milutinov is really playing great, IMO on defending opponent's big's he's even better than other Nikola and Marjanovic is always useful when mismatches are being searched and plays are designed for him. I am sure we will see less of Boban and Jokic together as the tournament progress.

Surelly this role will be interesting to observe for coach Malone, it's nothing he didn't know but still...
So in a current system you can see Jokic in a different role where he is standing outside or at elbow and directing traffic from there, his court vision is very useful asset here, he will often pass across an entire opponents defense finding open shooters on the other side. He can lob or oop pass to Milutinov, find cutters as usual or working to post himself, also you can't leave him open 3pt shot. On the other side, yes he will record less rebounds, steals, touch down dimes and we'll even see less P&R actions. At this position he is saving more strength for upcoming tough games where I still see him playing maximum of 30 minutes, maybe not even that much. To summarize my words, his new role is primarily to set others, particularly other big's. This does't mean we ain't gonna see him playing at center position, I am sure he will if there is need for that.

I totally understand all of that and do not object to calling Jokic a PF or a Center or whatever. What I object to is that he is not getting enough touches. His greatest value on the court (on the offensive end), is making passes. I do understand they don't have a lot of fast moving guards/wings but a big flashing into the paint can be a recipient of a nice pass that hits him right as he gets open. A forward running the baseline can get an easy dunk, if they cut right when their man looks around to find the ball. The players do not need to be open by much, to get an easy shot. Now, if we are talking about 3pt shooters, they might have to have a very quick release if they can't get open. But if others are moving towards the basket, defenders naturally look and maybe take a step or two. The point is, Jokic's greatest strength is when he has the ball. He is not a great ISO player although he's better than some give him credit for. He is not a great outsider shooter, but he's good enough to keep the defense honest. High-post with Milutinov in the low-post would surely be a nice combination. Jokic's height allows him to see over most non-centers and Milutinov is tall enough with better than average hands - he could catch some nice passes near the basket.

[The Rebel]

I understand that you guys would like to see Jokic on center position but let me explain you why coach Djordjevic's decision to put him on PF is totally correct. First of all Serbia brought only 3 small players on this championship, 2 point-guards and one shooting guard. For Jokic there aren't any quick, cutting to basket guards to cooperate with (hand-offs, pick and poison) such is the case in the Nuggets team. Secondly, Serbia brought 4 centers where besides Jokic only Raduljica (who lost a lot of body mass) can be placed at PF, and that is from recently, still in experimental phase as Raduljica played his whole career down low. When all this is taken under consideration you can see that by using Jokic as a center you are wasting one or two other big's.
Third reason is that Milutinov is really playing great, IMO on defending opponent's big's he's even better than other Nikola and Marjanovic is always useful when mismatches are being searched and plays are designed for him. I am sure we will see less of Boban and Jokic together as the tournament progress.

Surelly this role will be interesting to observe for coach Malone, it's nothing he didn't know but still...
So in a current system you can see Jokic in a different role where he is standing outside or at elbow and directing traffic from there, his court vision is very useful asset here, he will often pass across an entire opponents defense finding open shooters on the other side. He can lob or oop pass to Milutinov, find cutters as usual or working to post himself, also you can't leave him open 3pt shot. On the other side, yes he will record less rebounds, steals, touch down dimes and we'll even see less P&R actions. At this position he is saving more strength for upcoming tough games where I still see him playing maximum of 30 minutes, maybe not even that much. To summarize my words, his new role is primarily to set others, particularly other big's. This does't mean we ain't gonna see him playing at center position, I am sure he will if there is need for that.

Well argued! But...

When I lamenting and moaning about this issue here, it is actually not like Nuggets fan, not even as Jokic fan, but mostly as Serbia national team fan! Back in 2016, Denver has two very talented big men, Jokic and Nurkic. Nurkic was old school classic center which can't play anything else, so Jokic was sent at PF spot. But in reality, it much better worked with JokicC-FariedPF duo than NurkicC-JokicPF, despite Nurkic was clearly already better and more talented player than Faried, plus superior on defensive end! So how it happens? Simply, Jokic as "PF" is about 20% less productive and valuable option than as "C"! In the meantime, Jokic evolved into TOP3 big man (if not the best), so even if you cut-off 20% of his production, he is still All-Star level player and best Serbian player around... but not a monster we know from All-NBA first team.

I was more furious at Jokic role during preparation games because he was also not used as a playmaker, so he averages something like 10 points and 3 assists for 20 minutes, but in the last two friendly games and in both WC games so far it is changed, and he finally takes much more playmaking duties. I was also furious on the coach Djordjevic for cutting-off Serbian 2nd best forward (after Bjelica) Nikola Kalinic from bizarre reasons and replacing him which much less talented Bircevic (after injury of very decent Milosavljevic). Because of that Jokic is now destined to play many power forward minutes instead of "C", while Bjelica will play many SF instead of PF which is his more natural position. I especially don't like to see Jokic as full-time PF, which is the case so far in China. But now is too late anyway, so I just want to enjoy this tournament until the end.

I can't comment on the Serbian national team, but I still contend that Nurkic and Jokic would be the best front court in the league. if Malone would have realized what he had with Jokic and Nurkic would have lost the attitude it would have been there right now. Go back and watch those games, in many of them Malone had Jokic trying to play the Faried role and running the pick and roll off of Nurkic or Jokic and a guard with Jokic playing completely off the ball. They reverse roles with Nurkic playing the Faried role on offense and Center on defense it would have worked and was starting to look like it when Malone figured it out, but Nurkic was already lost by then.

I still cannot help imagining how good our defense would have been with Jokic on the perimeter against PFs and Nurkic guarding the paint. With Nurkic getting the Plumlee minutes at backup C and half of Millsap's minutes at PF.

[Popovich]

Well today against Italy Jokic played primarily as a center like someone here mentioned he will, and after only seeing stats 15 pts, 6 reb, 4ast, 1blk in 24 minutes of play one could say it was just a decent game for him. I totally agree with others that Jokic is better as 5 than 4 yet I am trying to emphasize the reason why, in national team, he is used as 4 so much. However if anyone had the opportunity to watch this game , he might have conclude that Jokic was huge for Serbia, lead was sure with him on the court, with his presence he boosted confidence to both fans and his teammates.
Italy often had to put double team on him and in general he drew a lot of attention from D. Still It was hard game for him , in FIBA basketball there is so much contact allowed, there is more of that dirty physicality, bodies banging ,pushing, hand-checking's and defence with legs . Even when clear mismatch happens and when is obvious that small guy can only make a foul to stop sure points refs are waiting for that foul to be made with certain force. I was praising Milutinov's good game so far but versus Italy he was not useful at all, Italy played with only one light athletic center so coach Djordjevic had to answer to Italy's smaller lineup with his own version of smaller line-up. Final result is not realistic, Italy was really dangerous and had it's opportunities to turn around this game but IMO Serbia was not on it's best either, team was nervous and almost had no impact from it's wing players in the first half. Italy has a really good team but they are lacking maybe one or two positions, to me their first center looks like a back up center and they don't have others on that position.

[NuggetsWY]

Well today against Italy Jokic played primarily as a center like someone here mentioned he will, and after only seeing stats 15 pts, 6 reb, 4ast, 1blk in 24 minutes of play one could say it was just a decent game for him. I totally agree with others that Jokic is better as 5 than 4 yet I am trying to emphasize the reason why, in national team, he is used as 4 so much. However if anyone had the opportunity to watch this game , he might have conclude that Jokic was huge for Serbia, lead was sure with him on the court, with his presence he boosted confidence to both fans and his teammates.
Italy often had to put double team on him and in general he drew a lot of attention from D. Still It was hard game for him , in FIBA basketball there is so much contact allowed, there is more of that dirty physicality, bodies banging ,pushing, hand-checking's and defence with legs . Even when clear mismatch happens and when is obvious that small guy can only make a foul to stop sure points refs are waiting for that foul to be made with certain force. I was praising Milutinov's good game so far but versus Italy he was not useful at all, Italy played with only one light athletic center so coach Djordjevic had to answer to Italy's smaller lineup with his own version of smaller line-up. Final result is not realistic, Italy was really dangerous and had it's opportunities to turn around this game but IMO Serbia was not on it's best either, team was nervous and almost had no impact from it's wing players in the first half. Italy has a really good team but they are lacking maybe one or two positions, to me their first center looks like a back up center and they don't have others on that position.

Thanks - nice report. Here's where Jokic's "extra" weight helps him. International ball is more physical, especially down low and if you are the biggest guy on the court (or in a play), the refs seldom call the other guy for a foul unless it is blatant. It reminds me of Shaq in the NBA. He was so much bigger and stronger that he never got the calls. Jokic sees some of that in the NBA too. Look at his arms after games, they sometimes look like a mountain lion was clawing him. I'm not seeing these games but I'm betting he's feeling some scratches and bruises.

Serbia took their best players and having extra bigs is always good - especially in international ball. But yeah, a small ball lineup can change a team's plans. Glad the Serbian coach adjusted there (after my earlier criticism of his lack of flexibility). This is one of the best periods of international ball I've ever seen (wishing I could catch more of the games though).

[THE J0KER]

Jokic role this summer in Serbia national team is pretty bizarre so far. But the fact is that there is still no real challenge for Serbia, and the first ones will be Sunday game vs Spain, so we will see what is a real vision of Serbian coach for Jokic. Fact is that Jokic playing at FIBA-WC more playmaking duties than during preparations. But better if we used him in friendly games more as big man playmaker on offense, because learning it at the tournament is more costly. Jokic assist/turnovers ratio so far is really bad for his standards (15as/10to so far), because teammates are not enough prepared for his sometimes unexpected passes. I find it interesting that on official tournament site (see screenshot) Jokic listed as a power forward (which is actually really his dominant role this summer so far), and also as 6'10 tall (209cm) while his NBA numbers are 7'0 (213cm)



As I already say, on Sunday we will see Jokic-Juancho showdown. And Juancho is just great so far this tournament. He played a couple of qualification games this year for Spain and all those friendly games in August, but nothing special we see from him. The Spanish team is very deep, and Juancho was just one of the guys. But once September and World Cup started, Spanish team turns into M.Gasol, Rubio, and Juancho team, with all others as supporting roles! Great news for Denver if he continues with that level until the end (3 games are still a small sample, but 8 will be enough for some conclusions). Spanish team are traditionally stacked at centers and point-guard positions (during the peak of their golden era out of 6 best players 3 are centers, Gasol brothers and Ibaka, and 3 are point guards, Rubio, Navarro, and Calderon), so it was crucial for Spanish team to have at least one SG/SF/PF player which rocks, and so far Juancho is the man! For 11-8 ts%68% numbers in just 23mpg so far I would grade Hernangomez with "A" so far.

[skywalker33]

Jokic role this summer in Serbia national team is pretty bizarre so far.

Agreed with this, kinda shows why I believe World Cup BB is a joke, they should be playing to Jokic's strengths but aren't. He's their best player but is out of position. Maybe the rules relegate him to this but still seems strange.

And Juancho is just great so far this tournament. For 11-8 ts%68% numbers in just 23mpg so far I would grade Hernangomez with "A" so far.

I like the looks of that as a starting SF, shows potential but he'll need to improve on the defensive end to win that Nuggets job.

[THE J0KER]

Serbia was unbeaten during preparation games and started very strongly this World Cup, but I still complained loudly about how Jokic is used and about his role. Using the world's best center as 21mpg backup forward is definitely a very bad idea, except you are a fan of November 2016 Nurkic-Jokic experiment which ends with 9-6-3 Joker numbers. Honestly, I have a bad feeling that this wrong use will maybe cost Serbia final, but even in worst nightmares, I didn't see it is possible to lose vs Argentina, a team which is just shadow of Manu Ginobili - Younger Scola team.

But despite Jokic wrong role and Plumlee non-role, Denver fans should be exciting because of this World Cup, thanks to Juancho Hernangomez. He is TOP3 in Spanish team in scoring and efficiency index, and even best rebounder! Sadly Craig at the end didn't decide to play for Australia, so we can't see tomorrow battle for Denver SF minutes in Spain-Australia semifinal game

[Manolito]

We won the Worldcup!!

Very happy for the team! Nuggets should be proud of Juancho, he was a key part of it.

Sent from my Aquaris M5 using RealGM mobile app

[skywalker33]

We won the Worldcup!!

Very happy for the team! Nuggets should be proud of Juancho, he was a key part of it.

Sent from my Aquaris M5 using RealGM mobile app

Great , now let's see if Juancho can FINALLY do something in TC and on into the season. Haven't seen it, skeptical I will...almost betting on another injury.

[TunaFish]

I am hearing that Serbia has let the National Team coach go, fired. Wonder if the misuse of Jokic was a factor?

[U hova]

refreshing to hear that some teams are willing to part with coaches that don't get results