Magic Exercising 20-21 Option on Fultz

[GeorgeMarcus]

lol, that reply is lifted perfectly from Fultz's playbook.

Step 1: Buy a BS diagnosis from unnamed Doctor
Step 2: Rely on the reluctance of the general public to question injuries as a shield against scrutiny
Step 3: Call out anyone who disagrees with phantom diagnosis as a non-medical layperson


Tell me this, where did the doctor who diagnosed TOS go to medical school?

A medical doctor didn't diagnose Fultz with TOS. His agent, Raymond Brothers, was the one who diagnosed him with that. Same guy who diagnosed him with all the other stuff.

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Source?

Don't bother- I've already corrected him on this false narrative but he spends an exorbitant amount of time undermining Fultz for reasons unknown to me. Could be a bot the way he weeds out every Fultz thread with impressive diligence.

[GeorgeMarcus]

A medical doctor didn't diagnose Fultz with TOS. His agent, Raymond Brothers, was the one who diagnosed him with that. Same guy who diagnosed him with all the other stuff.

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Source?

Woj reported it last December per the agent.

They knew something was wrong and assumed there was a physical basis for it. Turns out there was neurological basis for it, which shouldn't really matter from a narrative standpoint.

[GeorgeMarcus]

But Embiid looked absolutely amazing in those few games he played and had injuries that were much more cut and die/verifiable. I thought that 3rd or 4th opinion on what was wrong w/ Fultz said he was going to be able to play after the ASB last season? What happened to that?

Embiid didn't play a single game his first 2 years. We've actually seen fultz on an nba court. I don't recall anyone saying Embiid was going to miss 2 seasons when he was drafted, it was seen as a 1 year injury. Mean while fans were calling him a bust, saying he'd never stay healthy, blah blah blah.

Fultz has had issues and I guess fans are upset he doesn't spam us on twitter with updates on his issue?

So far we've seen a guy with elite athletic ability. He's got huge defensive upside, looks like he can be an actual impact defensive point guard. Excellent handles, very good passer, and already a killer in transition. Youngest guy to ever have a triple double to add to that. No, he's not been good overall but it isn't like we haven't seen a hell of a lot of potential in those moments he'd been on the floor.

I don't see the guy as a future superstar at this point but if he can find that jumper he had...he's going to be a good nba player for years to come. Why would anyone not be rooting for him to get there? Again...because he doesn't spam us with twitter posts about his rehab progress? Because we're annoyed doctors couldn't figure out his issue right away? Because *gasp* there might be something mental and requires help?

I mean do you think this guy worked his butt off for all those years to make the NBA and now just wants to collect a pay check and never compete at the NBA level? Why?

Fultz is not an elite athlete nor has he elite handles and he is definitely not a killer in transition. I have heard these things before and i have no idea how anyone that has seen him play would reach such conclusions. If Fultz were an elite athlete with excellent handles he would be able to play even without a 3point shoot. It is precisely because he is neither of these that he is unplayable in his current state.

Moreover dont compare Embiid with Fultz. Embiid had a real injury and was a much better prospect in college. I am not even sure Fultz has a real injury, he literally stopped playing after he got his option picked up and was moved to the bench. He spent the whole summer last year shooting 3s supposedly without any issues and as soon as he secured one more year of money and was moved to the bench he suddenly was injured again.

I hope he overcomes whatever issues he has but lets not kid ourselves that this is a typical injury. He will be paid for the full 4 years of his rookie contract and to this day he has played back up minutes in 33 games and even in those he hasnt shown much. He is literally being paid based on his perceived potential, because he hasnt shown anything on the NBA court yet.

Not on the Sixers he couldn't. It's impossible to balance 2 guards that can't shoot, especially when our best player is most effective in the post. Fultz is a crafty playmaker with elite athleticism (particularly his deceleration a la James Harden). With any semblance of a jump shot he would have been/could still be All Star material, but he was a piss poor off-ball player given his limitations.

[TheRealKaboom]

Source?

Woj reported it last December per the agent.

They knew something was wrong and assumed there was a physical basis for it. Turns out there was neurological basis for it, which shouldn't really matter from a narrative standpoint.

Neurological basis for what? And who diagnosed it?

[Sixerscan]

Embiid didn't play a single game his first 2 years. We've actually seen fultz on an nba court. I don't recall anyone saying Embiid was going to miss 2 seasons when he was drafted, it was seen as a 1 year injury. Mean while fans were calling him a bust, saying he'd never stay healthy, blah blah blah.

Fultz has had issues and I guess fans are upset he doesn't spam us on twitter with updates on his issue?

So far we've seen a guy with elite athletic ability. He's got huge defensive upside, looks like he can be an actual impact defensive point guard. Excellent handles, very good passer, and already a killer in transition. Youngest guy to ever have a triple double to add to that. No, he's not been good overall but it isn't like we haven't seen a hell of a lot of potential in those moments he'd been on the floor.

I don't see the guy as a future superstar at this point but if he can find that jumper he had...he's going to be a good nba player for years to come. Why would anyone not be rooting for him to get there? Again...because he doesn't spam us with twitter posts about his rehab progress? Because we're annoyed doctors couldn't figure out his issue right away? Because *gasp* there might be something mental and requires help?

I mean do you think this guy worked his butt off for all those years to make the NBA and now just wants to collect a pay check and never compete at the NBA level? Why?

Fultz is not an elite athlete nor has he elite handles and he is definitely not a killer in transition. I have heard these things before and i have no idea how anyone that has seen him play would reach such conclusions. If Fultz were an elite athlete with excellent handles he would be able to play even without a 3point shoot. It is precisely because he is neither of these that he is unplayable in his current state.

Moreover dont compare Embiid with Fultz. Embiid had a real injury and was a much better prospect in college. I am not even sure Fultz has a real injury, he literally stopped playing after he got his option picked up and was moved to the bench. He spent the whole summer last year shooting 3s supposedly without any issues and as soon as he secured one more year of money and was moved to the bench he suddenly was injured again.

I hope he overcomes whatever issues he has but lets not kid ourselves that this is a typical injury. He will be paid for the full 4 years of his rookie contract and to this day he has played back up minutes in 33 games and even in those he hasnt shown much. He is literally being paid based on his perceived potential, because he hasnt shown anything on the NBA court yet.

Not on the Sixers he couldn't. It's impossible to balance 2 guards that can't shoot, especially when our best player is most effective in the post. Fultz is a crafty playmaker with elite athleticism (particularly his deceleration a la James Harden). With any semblance of a jump shot he would have been/could still be All Star material, but he was a piss poor off-ball player given his limitations.

He played fine/well on the Sixers. The issue wasn't his play the issue was he just decided to stop playing one day and I'm not really sure what the team is supposed to do about that.

Acting like he was playing with Simmons all the time is wrong though.

[JewKobe]

I finished medical school In 2017 if people are actually questioning credentials here. Anyway what fultz was “diagnosed” with is TOS.thzt is thoracic outlet syndrome. Keyword here is syndrome. This incredibly rare and the reason it’s considered a syndrome is this condition is diagnosed by ruling everything else out. Considering fultz saw over a dozen doctors and all but one diagnosed him with this screams an erroneous diagnosis. My guess based on everything is it’s simply the yips. Happens to athletes all the time. The mind is very powerful. Your mind can convince itself to that it’s a physical condition

[GeorgeMarcus]

Fultz is not an elite athlete nor has he elite handles and he is definitely not a killer in transition. I have heard these things before and i have no idea how anyone that has seen him play would reach such conclusions. If Fultz were an elite athlete with excellent handles he would be able to play even without a 3point shoot. It is precisely because he is neither of these that he is unplayable in his current state.

Moreover dont compare Embiid with Fultz. Embiid had a real injury and was a much better prospect in college. I am not even sure Fultz has a real injury, he literally stopped playing after he got his option picked up and was moved to the bench. He spent the whole summer last year shooting 3s supposedly without any issues and as soon as he secured one more year of money and was moved to the bench he suddenly was injured again.

I hope he overcomes whatever issues he has but lets not kid ourselves that this is a typical injury. He will be paid for the full 4 years of his rookie contract and to this day he has played back up minutes in 33 games and even in those he hasnt shown much. He is literally being paid based on his perceived potential, because he hasnt shown anything on the NBA court yet.

Not on the Sixers he couldn't. It's impossible to balance 2 guards that can't shoot, especially when our best player is most effective in the post. Fultz is a crafty playmaker with elite athleticism (particularly his deceleration a la James Harden). With any semblance of a jump shot he would have been/could still be All Star material, but he was a piss poor off-ball player given his limitations.

He played fine/well on the Sixers. The issue wasn't his play the issue was he just decided to stop playing one day and I'm not really sure what the team is supposed to do about that.

Acting like he was playing with Simmons all the time is wrong though.

It's not that he was playing with Ben all the time, but if he's relegated to the 14-15 min Ben is off the court then it's hard to get into any kind of rhythm. That and his shooting hitch/the media attention that came with it were taking a toll on him. Even though we saw glimpses of what he could become, it all comes down to his ability to rehab his jumper. I get the feeling he's making progress but we'll find out soon enough.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Woj reported it last December per the agent.

They knew something was wrong and assumed there was a physical basis for it. Turns out there was neurological basis for it, which shouldn't really matter from a narrative standpoint.

Neurological basis for what? And who diagnosed it?

Just forum search our past conversations lol you're out of your mind if you think I'm going to rehash everything I've said to you on multiple occasions. Maybe it will be easier for you to digest if I type it out in binary.

[GeorgeMarcus]

I finished medical school In 2017 if people are actually questioning credentials here. Anyway what fultz was “diagnosed” with is TOS.thzt is thoracic outlet syndrome. Keyword here is syndrome. This incredibly rare and the reason it’s considered a syndrome is this condition is diagnosed by ruling everything else out. Considering fultz saw over a dozen doctors and all but one diagnosed him with this screams an erroneous diagnosis. My guess based on everything is it’s simply the yips. Happens to athletes all the time. The mind is very powerful. Your mind can convince itself to that it’s a physical condition

I was "diagnosed" with cluster headaches using the same method. Unfortunately that is the procedure for neurological ailments. Doctors were treating what they thought were chronic migraines for years. A resident at Jefferson Headache clinic finally put a finger on it, changed my prescription from useless migraine meds to high doses of pure oxygen, and my life has improved drastically as a result.

[dhsilv2]

I finished medical school In 2017 if people are actually questioning credentials here. Anyway what fultz was “diagnosed” with is TOS.thzt is thoracic outlet syndrome. Keyword here is syndrome. This incredibly rare and the reason it’s considered a syndrome is this condition is diagnosed by ruling everything else out. Considering fultz saw over a dozen doctors and all but one diagnosed him with this screams an erroneous diagnosis. My guess based on everything is it’s simply the yips. Happens to athletes all the time. The mind is very powerful. Your mind can convince itself to that it’s a physical condition

so someone who is in residency and isn't a specialist...

i swear...while this board is older than reddit, so many freaking 20 somethings think because they studied something they are able to actually offer an opinion that supersede an actual expert it's down right baffling. And I get it...when you're in your 20's you think you know things, by your 30's you realize you're a damn idiot. Hopefully by your 40's you actually have a clue and then you can enjoy actually knowing your stuff in your 50's and 60's before age kicks in. That's life.

[SichtingLives]

I finished medical school In 2017 if people are actually questioning credentials here. Anyway what fultz was “diagnosed” with is TOS.thzt is thoracic outlet syndrome. Keyword here is syndrome. This incredibly rare and the reason it’s considered a syndrome is this condition is diagnosed by ruling everything else out. Considering fultz saw over a dozen doctors and all but one diagnosed him with this screams an erroneous diagnosis. My guess based on everything is it’s simply the yips. Happens to athletes all the time. The mind is very powerful. Your mind can convince itself to that it’s a physical condition

So you're saying he's actually got the Placebo Syndrome?

Watch on YouTube

[michaelm]

I finished medical school In 2017 if people are actually questioning credentials here. Anyway what fultz was “diagnosed” with is TOS.thzt is thoracic outlet syndrome. Keyword here is syndrome. This incredibly rare and the reason it’s considered a syndrome is this condition is diagnosed by ruling everything else out. Considering fultz saw over a dozen doctors and all but one diagnosed him with this screams an erroneous diagnosis. My guess based on everything is it’s simply the yips. Happens to athletes all the time. The mind is very powerful. Your mind can convince itself to that it’s a physical condition

Sure having the yips is a strong possibility. If you have a rare condition not quite within the current paradigm being misdiagnosed by multiple “experts” is also possible, as is the current paradigm being wrong about a common condition.

All things considered I would of course rather be young like you, but was taught things at medical school decades ago which turned out to be wrong, for example pretty much everything I was taught about peptic ulceration.

[VDT]

Embiid didn't play a single game his first 2 years. We've actually seen fultz on an nba court. I don't recall anyone saying Embiid was going to miss 2 seasons when he was drafted, it was seen as a 1 year injury. Mean while fans were calling him a bust, saying he'd never stay healthy, blah blah blah.

Fultz has had issues and I guess fans are upset he doesn't spam us on twitter with updates on his issue?

So far we've seen a guy with elite athletic ability. He's got huge defensive upside, looks like he can be an actual impact defensive point guard. Excellent handles, very good passer, and already a killer in transition. Youngest guy to ever have a triple double to add to that. No, he's not been good overall but it isn't like we haven't seen a hell of a lot of potential in those moments he'd been on the floor.

I don't see the guy as a future superstar at this point but if he can find that jumper he had...he's going to be a good nba player for years to come. Why would anyone not be rooting for him to get there? Again...because he doesn't spam us with twitter posts about his rehab progress? Because we're annoyed doctors couldn't figure out his issue right away? Because *gasp* there might be something mental and requires help?

I mean do you think this guy worked his butt off for all those years to make the NBA and now just wants to collect a pay check and never compete at the NBA level? Why?

Fultz is not an elite athlete nor has he elite handles and he is definitely not a killer in transition. I have heard these things before and i have no idea how anyone that has seen him play would reach such conclusions. If Fultz were an elite athlete with excellent handles he would be able to play even without a 3point shoot. It is precisely because he is neither of these that he is unplayable in his current state.

Moreover dont compare Embiid with Fultz. Embiid had a real injury and was a much better prospect in college. I am not even sure Fultz has a real injury, he literally stopped playing after he got his option picked up and was moved to the bench. He spent the whole summer last year shooting 3s supposedly without any issues and as soon as he secured one more year of money and was moved to the bench he suddenly was injured again.

I hope he overcomes whatever issues he has but lets not kid ourselves that this is a typical injury. He will be paid for the full 4 years of his rookie contract and to this day he has played back up minutes in 33 games and even in those he hasnt shown much. He is literally being paid based on his perceived potential, because he hasnt shown anything on the NBA court yet.

Not on the Sixers he couldn't. It's impossible to balance 2 guards that can't shoot, especially when our best player is most effective in the post. Fultz is a crafty playmaker with elite athleticism (particularly his deceleration a la James Harden). With any semblance of a jump shot he would have been/could still be All Star material, but he was a piss poor off-ball player given his limitations.

Fultz is not elite athletically, at least compared to the other NBA players. He is not explosive and he can create separation from the defender.

Also he still had his mid range shot when he was playing with the Sixers. If he were all these things the guy i quoted was saying he would have a place in the team. Uf i remember correctly he lost his job to TJ, before he stopped playing, who is neither elite athletically nor does he shoot 3s.

[FlatearthZorro]

The only Magic here is how this guy will end up bagging $40 in career earnings while barely lifting a finger. Or shoulder rather

Agreed, that's some serious MAGIC right there. Kid has played a handful of games, I doubt his next option will be picked up unless he plays and shows " something" tho, cause the last year of a #1 pick is some pretty significant money.

[FlatearthZorro]

Question is: is he even gonna play this upcoming season and if so, when?

I feel like kid got messed up mentally when he entered the league. Dunno if he will ever play again, imo. He's made what around 30 mils by doing virtually nothing. 33 games. So if I had to bet, I'd say there's a chance he plays, but I feel like same thing might repeat itself this season.

[ankle420breaker]

I finished medical school In 2017 if people are actually questioning credentials here. Anyway what fultz was “diagnosed” with is TOS.thzt is thoracic outlet syndrome. Keyword here is syndrome. This incredibly rare and the reason it’s considered a syndrome is this condition is diagnosed by ruling everything else out. Considering fultz saw over a dozen doctors and all but one diagnosed him with this screams an erroneous diagnosis. My guess based on everything is it’s simply the yips. Happens to athletes all the time. The mind is very powerful. Your mind can convince itself to that it’s a physical condition

I don't understand why some people take such offense when others express disbelief about his injury situation... especially at this juncture.

He and his agent/manager scoured the earth to find that TOS diagnosis (which no doctor would attach their name to). Just so happens to be a totally ambiguous type of injury with a completely subjective recovery timeline.

This was supposed to be corrected with PT and they've managed to milk this for nearly a year now while still having no timeline for a return.

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[michaelm]

I finished medical school In 2017 if people are actually questioning credentials here. Anyway what fultz was “diagnosed” with is TOS.thzt is thoracic outlet syndrome. Keyword here is syndrome. This incredibly rare and the reason it’s considered a syndrome is this condition is diagnosed by ruling everything else out. Considering fultz saw over a dozen doctors and all but one diagnosed him with this screams an erroneous diagnosis. My guess based on everything is it’s simply the yips. Happens to athletes all the time. The mind is very powerful. Your mind can convince itself to that it’s a physical condition

I don't understand why some people take such offense when others express disbelief about his injury situation... especially at this juncture.

He and his agent/manager scoured the earth to find that TOS diagnosis (which no doctor would attach their name to). Just so happens to be a totally ambiguous type of injury with a completely subjective recovery timeline.

This was supposed to be corrected with PT and they've managed to milk this for nearly a year now while still having no timeline for a return.

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Why not wait until events prove you correct?. Why the imo fairly obsessive need to scarify him in advance of events at the age of 20 or whatever ?. If he retires having made 30 million for nothing then fine.

I can give you a fairly exact parallel in another sport except the guy had previously managed the equivalent of being the MVP and FMVP in a dominant title win and everyone including his own team was convinced his problems were psychological. They were all wrong. He found the right doctor, the multiple orthopaedic surgeons he had seen having not diagnosed his ailment, which was a medical/internal medicine problem rather than an orthopaedic issue.

[Eyeamok]

lol, that reply is lifted perfectly from Fultz's playbook.

Step 1: Buy a BS diagnosis from unnamed Doctor
Step 2: Rely on the reluctance of the general public to question injuries as a shield against scrutiny
Step 3: Call out anyone who disagrees with phantom diagnosis as a non-medical layperson


Tell me this, where did the doctor who diagnosed TOS go to medical school?

Shakes you will be waiting a long time for that response.

People should look at Fultz track record. He plays well in the summer has great workouts, excellent reviews. Then come the fall when the bright lights are on and the games really matter. He does not perform. He has had a shoulder injury that should have been cleared up by now. Yet a year later we still don't know when he will be ready. But how bad could the injury have been if it did not require surgery?

The surgery or TOS I believe requires removal of a rib and is a last resort type thing (you should read that as you're going to try everything else possible for a few YEARS before you go there).

You are right about the surgery and it being a last resort. But you still did not answer the question of which doctor diagnosed Fultz with TOS ? Was it the same doctor that said he had fluid removed from his shoulder than changed it to he had a cortisone shot. Was it the same doctor that said he would absolutely be back playing before the end of the season...but he never came back?

[dhsilv2]

Fultz is not an elite athlete nor has he elite handles and he is definitely not a killer in transition. I have heard these things before and i have no idea how anyone that has seen him play would reach such conclusions. If Fultz were an elite athlete with excellent handles he would be able to play even without a 3point shoot. It is precisely because he is neither of these that he is unplayable in his current state.

Moreover dont compare Embiid with Fultz. Embiid had a real injury and was a much better prospect in college. I am not even sure Fultz has a real injury, he literally stopped playing after he got his option picked up and was moved to the bench. He spent the whole summer last year shooting 3s supposedly without any issues and as soon as he secured one more year of money and was moved to the bench he suddenly was injured again.

I hope he overcomes whatever issues he has but lets not kid ourselves that this is a typical injury. He will be paid for the full 4 years of his rookie contract and to this day he has played back up minutes in 33 games and even in those he hasnt shown much. He is literally being paid based on his perceived potential, because he hasnt shown anything on the NBA court yet.

Not on the Sixers he couldn't. It's impossible to balance 2 guards that can't shoot, especially when our best player is most effective in the post. Fultz is a crafty playmaker with elite athleticism (particularly his deceleration a la James Harden). With any semblance of a jump shot he would have been/could still be All Star material, but he was a piss poor off-ball player given his limitations.

Fultz is not elite athletically, at least compared to the other NBA players. He is not explosive and he can create separation from the defender.

Also he still had his mid range shot when he was playing with the Sixers. If he were all these things the guy i quoted was saying he would have a place in the team. Uf i remember correctly he lost his job to TJ, before he stopped playing, who is neither elite athletically nor does he shoot 3s.

lol...I swear anyone who thinks Fultz isn't elite athletically simply should just stop talking about basketball.

[dhsilv2]

Shakes you will be waiting a long time for that response.

People should look at Fultz track record. He plays well in the summer has great workouts, excellent reviews. Then come the fall when the bright lights are on and the games really matter. He does not perform. He has had a shoulder injury that should have been cleared up by now. Yet a year later we still don't know when he will be ready. But how bad could the injury have been if it did not require surgery?

The surgery or TOS I believe requires removal of a rib and is a last resort type thing (you should read that as you're going to try everything else possible for a few YEARS before you go there).

You are right about the surgery and it being a last resort. But you still did not answer the question of which doctor diagnosed Fultz with TOS ? Was it the same doctor that said he had fluid removed from his shoulder than changed it to he had a cortisone shot. Was it the same doctor that said he would absolutely be back playing before the end of the season...but he never came back?

I'm not the team that fultz plays for. He doesn't want to share all the details and there's no reason on earth he should. The fact that people think they should have this much information about this process is baffling to me.