Magic Exercising 20-21 Option on Fultz

[shakes0]

They knew something was wrong and assumed there was a physical basis for it. Turns out there was neurological basis for it, which shouldn't really matter from a narrative standpoint.

Neurological basis for what? And who diagnosed it?

Just forum search our past conversations lol you're out of your mind if you think I'm going to rehash everything I've said to you on multiple occasions. Maybe it will be easier for you to digest if I type it out in binary.

Name the doctor who diagnosed TOS in Fultz?

[rzzzzz]

all i know was that Fultz looked great playing against an excellent Celtic squad in Summer League. his shot looked beautiful (even if he didn't knocked them all down), and while not an outright burner, he had a real knack for getting separation and cutting to the hoop. at that point it looked like a very bright future. SOMETHING happened between then and preseason camp. the most conspicuous clue for me was how he would not/could not address what was going on. it seemed like he was incredibly nervous as he refused to answer any question about it. Drew Hanlen initially declared he had the yips, and then the kid got better, only to lose it again, and Drew then said he was still recovering for an injury, and then got fired. based on no other evidence beyond his love of flipping his BMX, i suspect he busted his shoulder, which is a prime cause of TOS.

regardless. Fultz' team mates really liked him when he was with us, and i wish the kid nothing but success.

[Johnny Bball]

Not playing in summer league or drew league, or any practice games like at Rico Hines camp was a big red flag if you ask me.

[dhsilv2]

Not playing in summer league or drew league, or any practice games like at Rico Hines camp was a big red flag if you ask me.

Does anyone play in these things anymore?

[michaelm]

The surgery or TOS I believe requires removal of a rib and is a last resort type thing (you should read that as you're going to try everything else possible for a few YEARS before you go there).

You are right about the surgery and it being a last resort. But you still did not answer the question of which doctor diagnosed Fultz with TOS ? Was it the same doctor that said he had fluid removed from his shoulder than changed it to he had a cortisone shot. Was it the same doctor that said he would absolutely be back playing before the end of the season...but he never came back?

I'm not the team that fultz plays for. He doesn't want to share all the details and there's no reason on earth he should. The fact that people think they should have this much information about this process is baffling to me.

There is also absolutely no obligation for a doctor unconnected with the Sixers or the NBA in general to identify himself/herself and I would regard not seeking publicity as professional behavior and a point in the doctor’s favor, who in fact shouldn't identify himself/herself if Fultz doesn't want this.

[likemycurryhot]

Hope it works out for him, if the shot is back he'll be a really fun player to watch. Not really sure why people get so salty about athletes "earning" their money. If he did well enough in HS and college to command his salary, he's earned it based on past performance and perceived potential. Folks get worked up about terrible owners and wish they would sell whatever team they own but I don't think I've ever seen fans complain about however much money they make from owning the team. Its a weird double standard considering that some guys (James Dolan, I'm looking at you) literally did nothing to to merit owning their team.

[rugbyrugger23]

Maybe to trade him?

Covington + Napier

For

Isaac + Fultz

[VanWest82]

Yeah I mean the fact that Simmons coming off an all star appearance signed a full 5 year deal while Porzingis coming off a lost season got 4 years and a player option is a pretty clear example of the advantages of locking certain guys up early.

As far as Fultz goes... if they wanted to pick up his option I can see the argument there really wasn't any point in waiting. Even if he shows progress in training camp he can always regress like he did last year. At a certain point you just have to decide whether you're committing to him or not.

I’m not sure I get your point. Porzingis coming off an ACL was much more likely to push for a long-term deal. Simmons potentially coming off a healthy, second consecutive all star season would be more likely to be empowered to take a one year max with the intention of moving on if he was pissed that the Sixers made him wait. We’re living in the player empowerment era. I don’t think that kind of thing is beyond reasonable anymore. I promise you Rich would have said as much (whether true or not) if Sixers hadn’t stepped up.

I stand by my point with Fultz. Maybe you’re going to do it regardless but there’s value in actually making him earn it. He hasn’t had to earn anything in the NBA to this point. There are questions about his work ethic and mental state, media driven or not. Why not put him under a little pressure and see how he responds? If he can’t handle that then what are actual NBA games going to do to him??

Porzingis can decide whether he wants to be a free agent a year sooner than Simmons can (well two years because of different rookie classes but you get my point).

Porzingis got 5 years, he just also got the option that if he wants to be a free after 4, he can. He'll only pick up that 5th year option if he can't get more than that as a free agent (like if he gets hurt again), so by definition that 5th year would be a bad contract. Simmons is under contract for 5 regardless. Porzingis' contract is more favorable to the player than Simmons' is.

The Sixers were happy to get Simmons locked up for 5 years, and not 4 like Porzingis, or potentially even 3 if he went out and signed an offer sheet.

So we're saying the same thing then (i.e. it was smart for the Sixers to do the extension instead of waiting which was my original point). The first bolded section still has me confused. You seem to be suggesting there is no advantage (I assume that was heavy sarcasm) and then in the second bolded section you saying the exact opposite. I agree with the second bolded section.

[LloydFree]

I finished medical school In 2017 if people are actually questioning credentials here. Anyway what fultz was “diagnosed” with is TOS.thzt is thoracic outlet syndrome. Keyword here is syndrome. This incredibly rare and the reason it’s considered a syndrome is this condition is diagnosed by ruling everything else out. Considering fultz saw over a dozen doctors and all but one diagnosed him with this screams an erroneous diagnosis. My guess based on everything is it’s simply the yips. Happens to athletes all the time. The mind is very powerful. Your mind can convince itself to that it’s a physical condition

so someone who is in residency and isn't a specialist...

i swear...while this board is older than reddit, so many freaking 20 somethings think because they studied something they are able to actually offer an opinion that supersede an actual expert it's down right baffling. And I get it...when you're in your 20's you think you know things, by your 30's you realize you're a damn idiot. Hopefully by your 40's you actually have a clue and then you can enjoy actually knowing your stuff in your 50's and 60's before age kicks in. That's life.

Maybe those idiots in their 20's that thought Markelle Fultz was good, will realize they were idiots when they're in their 30's. I guess that doesn't help the 30 year old idiots though...

[Eyeamok]

You are right about the surgery and it being a last resort. But you still did not answer the question of which doctor diagnosed Fultz with TOS ? Was it the same doctor that said he had fluid removed from his shoulder than changed it to he had a cortisone shot. Was it the same doctor that said he would absolutely be back playing before the end of the season...but he never came back?

I'm not the team that fultz plays for. He doesn't want to share all the details and there's no reason on earth he should. The fact that people think they should have this much information about this process is baffling to me.

There is also absolutely no obligation for a doctor unconnected with the Sixers or the NBA in general to identify himself/herself and I would regard not seeking publicity as professional behavior and a point in the doctor’s favor, who in fact shouldn't identify himself/herself if Fultz doesn't want this.

I would figure it would be a great source of pride and a badge of professional honor to be the one doctor out of so many that actually got the diagnosis correct. I'd want my name out there so I could help other people that have been misdiagnosed.

But hey what do I know.

[SF_Warriors]

all i know was that Fultz looked great playing against an excellent Celtic squad in Summer League. his shot looked beautiful (even if he didn't knocked them all down), and while not an outright burner, he had a real knack for getting separation and cutting to the hoop. at that point it looked like a very bright future. SOMETHING happened between then and preseason camp. the most conspicuous clue for me was how he would not/could not address what was going on. it seemed like he was incredibly nervous as he refused to answer any question about it. Drew Hanlen initially declared he had the yips, and then the kid got better, only to lose it again, and Drew then said he was still recovering for an injury, and then got fired. based on no other evidence beyond his love of flipping his BMX, i suspect he busted his shoulder, which is a prime cause of TOS.

regardless. Fultz' team mates really liked him when he was with us, and i wish the kid nothing but success.

We have seen career bench guys and guys who were borderline nba players average 20+ in summer league

[dhsilv2]

I'm not the team that fultz plays for. He doesn't want to share all the details and there's no reason on earth he should. The fact that people think they should have this much information about this process is baffling to me.

There is also absolutely no obligation for a doctor unconnected with the Sixers or the NBA in general to identify himself/herself and I would regard not seeking publicity as professional behavior and a point in the doctor’s favor, who in fact shouldn't identify himself/herself if Fultz doesn't want this.

I would figure it would be a great source of pride and a badge of professional honor to be the one doctor out of so many that actually got the diagnosis correct. I'd want my name out there so I could help other people that have been misdiagnosed.

But hey what do I know.

Doctor Patient confidentiality? Kinda a big deal...

[dhsilv2]

all i know was that Fultz looked great playing against an excellent Celtic squad in Summer League. his shot looked beautiful (even if he didn't knocked them all down), and while not an outright burner, he had a real knack for getting separation and cutting to the hoop. at that point it looked like a very bright future. SOMETHING happened between then and preseason camp. the most conspicuous clue for me was how he would not/could not address what was going on. it seemed like he was incredibly nervous as he refused to answer any question about it. Drew Hanlen initially declared he had the yips, and then the kid got better, only to lose it again, and Drew then said he was still recovering for an injury, and then got fired. based on no other evidence beyond his love of flipping his BMX, i suspect he busted his shoulder, which is a prime cause of TOS.

regardless. Fultz' team mates really liked him when he was with us, and i wish the kid nothing but success.

We have seen career bench guys and guys who were borderline nba players average 20+ in summer league

I mean the fact his jumper looked like a jumper should tell you SOMETHING happened, even if summer league stats are worthless.

[Frank Dux]

I'm not sure I've ever wanted a guy to success more than Fultz with all the countless garbage hate he's gotten for no reason.

“for no reason”

[TheHartBreakKid]

It's definitely not discouraging, and I'm on the boat that thinks the Magic made a great move and I hope to see it work out for them;

That said, that 9-12 million (not sure what the rookie salary for the first pick is right now) isn't much to sacrifice if you're the magic, meaning it's a no brainer, unless he has literally been ruled out for the year. The magic have no immediate capspace plans, and to give up a first round pick for a guy and giving up on him without seeing him play a game would be foolish if you're the Magic. This really doesn't tell us much, other than they are optimistic that he will atleast play, which was obviously expected.

But again, hoping to see things for out for the Magic/Fultz. What he was supposed to be is exactly what that team needs right now.

[EAS Law]

His salary next year is not that important in the grand scheme of things so the risk is relatively low.

However it still doesnt make any sense for the Magic to pick up his option now. They could wait to see how he looks on the court first before deciding or they could simply not pick it up at all. It is highly unlikely that he will get more money next year that what the Magic could offer him.

If anything this decision speaks volumes on how desperate the Magic are to find a player to build around.

The Magic could realistically be a top 4 team in the East this year without Fultz stepping on the court...

I know the Magic aren't the sexiest team to watch if you aren't a fan, but at least do a bit of reading before your "hot" takes.

So because you think that the Magic could be a top 4 seed next year in the eastern conference means that my post was wrong?

Why dont you tell us who they are building around. Their lottery picks (Gordon, Isaak, Bamba) havent shown much yet and their best player is a soon to be 29 years old Vucevic whom their fans wanted to get rid of until last year and who in his career year managed to lead them to the 7th seed and then was completely exposed in the first round. The Magic have pieces but not a top 2 player in a contender which is why they have gone all in with Fultz.

Vucevic was an All-Star last season.

AG and Isaac (at least try to look it up) are promising regardless of your ignorance

Bamba hasn’t shown much, I’ll give you that, but “go all in”? “Desperate”? Lmao please. The Magic FO picked up one year on a team option for a former 1st overall pick that they’ve had for like half a season and all of the Markelle Fultz experts come out the woodwork to diagnose him, discredit what he HAS done, and declare absolutes about his future.

Please let me know who better would have been available given the Magic’s cap space had they declined the option.

[Sixerscan]

I’m not sure I get your point. Porzingis coming off an ACL was much more likely to push for a long-term deal. Simmons potentially coming off a healthy, second consecutive all star season would be more likely to be empowered to take a one year max with the intention of moving on if he was pissed that the Sixers made him wait. We’re living in the player empowerment era. I don’t think that kind of thing is beyond reasonable anymore. I promise you Rich would have said as much (whether true or not) if Sixers hadn’t stepped up.

I stand by my point with Fultz. Maybe you’re going to do it regardless but there’s value in actually making him earn it. He hasn’t had to earn anything in the NBA to this point. There are questions about his work ethic and mental state, media driven or not. Why not put him under a little pressure and see how he responds? If he can’t handle that then what are actual NBA games going to do to him??

Porzingis can decide whether he wants to be a free agent a year sooner than Simmons can (well two years because of different rookie classes but you get my point).

Porzingis got 5 years, he just also got the option that if he wants to be a free after 4, he can. He'll only pick up that 5th year option if he can't get more than that as a free agent (like if he gets hurt again), so by definition that 5th year would be a bad contract. Simmons is under contract for 5 regardless. Porzingis' contract is more favorable to the player than Simmons' is.

The Sixers were happy to get Simmons locked up for 5 years, and not 4 like Porzingis, or potentially even 3 if he went out and signed an offer sheet.

So we're saying the same thing then (i.e. it was smart for the Sixers to do the extension instead of waiting which was my original point). The first bolded section still has me confused. You seem to be suggesting there is no advantage (I assume that was heavy sarcasm) and then in the second bolded section you saying the exact opposite. I agree with the second bolded section.

I think you may be confused about who I am saying there is an advantage for. 4 plus a player option is less advantageous for the TEAM compared to a straight 5 year deal. It’s a more advantageous contract for the PLAYER.

[Eyeamok]

There is also absolutely no obligation for a doctor unconnected with the Sixers or the NBA in general to identify himself/herself and I would regard not seeking publicity as professional behavior and a point in the doctor’s favor, who in fact shouldn't identify himself/herself if Fultz doesn't want this.

I would figure it would be a great source of pride and a badge of professional honor to be the one doctor out of so many that actually got the diagnosis correct. I'd want my name out there so I could help other people that have been misdiagnosed.

But hey what do I know.

Doctor Patient confidentiality? Kinda a big deal...

Yes it is it falls right under the banner of doctor patient anonymity.

[VanWest82]

Porzingis can decide whether he wants to be a free agent a year sooner than Simmons can (well two years because of different rookie classes but you get my point).

Porzingis got 5 years, he just also got the option that if he wants to be a free after 4, he can. He'll only pick up that 5th year option if he can't get more than that as a free agent (like if he gets hurt again), so by definition that 5th year would be a bad contract. Simmons is under contract for 5 regardless. Porzingis' contract is more favorable to the player than Simmons' is.

The Sixers were happy to get Simmons locked up for 5 years, and not 4 like Porzingis, or potentially even 3 if he went out and signed an offer sheet.

So we're saying the same thing then (i.e. it was smart for the Sixers to do the extension instead of waiting which was my original point). The first bolded section still has me confused. You seem to be suggesting there is no advantage (I assume that was heavy sarcasm) and then in the second bolded section you saying the exact opposite. I agree with the second bolded section.

I think you may be confused about who I am saying there is an advantage for. 4 plus a player option is less advantageous for the TEAM compared to a straight 5 year deal. It’s a more advantageous contract for the PLAYER.

I get that's what you meant in your second response. I thought your first reply to me was sarcasm. This part:

Yeah I mean the fact that Simmons coming off an all star appearance signed a full 5 year deal while Porzingis coming off a lost season got 4 years and a player option is a pretty clear example of the advantages of locking certain guys up early.

I mistook it. My bad. Comparing Simmons to Porzingis still getting a long-term deal coming off an ACL injury threw me.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Maybe to trade him?

Covington + Napier

For

Isaac + Fultz

Please leave your terrible Magic trade suggestions for the T&T board.