What player makes the most Siakam-like jump in 2019-2020

[Kabookalu]

Boiling his MIP season down to just having more confidence is selling him short. You don't improve in every aspect of your game just by believing in yourself a little more. The spot up jumper and the isolation scoring were not in his arsenal at all in previous seasons.

Same goes for Derrick White. If he takes the next step with his game, it'll be because he added more range to his jumper, developed a tighter handle etc.. not mainly because he was "more confident". That confidence and the trust from coaches comes from putting the time in to develop the skills necessary to succeed in your role.

I'll give you the spot up jumper, but the ISO scoring was always there. He was taking guys off the dribble and posting people up his rookie year with the 905. And I vehemently disagree on your take, I think you're marginalizing how important self confidence is on a professional level. Being a Raptors fan you should know with Fred VanVleet.

Very different game the G league vs NBA, a lot of G league MVPs cant even get a role in the NBA so comparing what he did there is sorta irrelevant. Pascal in his second year was no where near as polished. He had the athleticism and speed to take guys off the dribble and post but he didnt have the ability to finish. His shot was not good at all from anywhere on the court in his sophomore year, but he developed a very respectable shot last year.

If we're to dismiss the showings of every single prospect to exist on a lower level then literally everything an NCAA player has done should be thrown out the window just because it's against inferior competition. No you literally can't take that player, throw him into the NBA, and expect him to replicate that without a hitch. Polish and adjusting those skills to be applicable against the best competition in the world is part of the growing pains, and for a lot of players it's a hump that's too hard to overcome. Pascal worked his ass off to get where he did.

My point is that people are acting like Pascal Siakam developed these skills overnight. I don't blame them for not knowing because who has time to watch the developmental team of the Raptors, I'm just telling everyone that yes he worked hard, but it didn't come out of the blue either. The footwork, the post ups, taking players off the dribble, he showed these skills off in the 905. No they weren't NBA ready yet, but he was working with a great base already, he just needed to continue working hard so that it'd be usable against the best of the best. And I don't doubt that he improved on these skills already, but it's not like he started from level 1 to level 60. Those few of us that watched the 905 knew what he was capable of. We weren't all certain that he'd be a surefire star, but if he did it wouldn't have surprised us.

Watch on YouTube

[21 TD]

Dejounte Murray, he's going to be the next late Spurs pick that becomes an all-star level player.

I don't think he'll get the minutes or accumulate the counting stats, both because they'll likely want to ease him back in and because unless at least one of him, White or DeRozan has made a quantum leap from 3, playing them all together in stretches is untenable.

Even if Murray has good advanced stats, it'll only be known to hardcore fans/media and as always, the credit will mostly go to Pop and the organization.

[Sign5]

Derrick Jones jr

You know, I've seen a few Heat fans mention him as a young asset or building block and it has me wondering...

What is it about him outside of his tremendous dunking ability that gets people excited? He can't shoot, his defensive numbers are good but not great (maybe better in person?), he's not a playmaker for other, I guess he's a good rebounder for his size but that's largely scheme based for a lot of players (and that's supported by his reb% taking a big jump in Miami compared to Phoenix).

What do you guys, who watch him more often, see in him that the numbers don't show? What makes you think he's ready to take the next step and be an above average starter/borderline All-Star in the league? What makes him better than guys like Torrey Craig, Pat Cannaughton, Mario Hezonja, Alfonzo McKinnie, or Royce O'Neal (capable rotation players, but not stars or even starters on most teams) ?

Its not that serious dude, DJJ is an exciting prospect with some potential thats all. The premise of this thread is literally which player do you see making an unexpected jump. DJJ would fit in that mold being 21. He still has time to develop and its no news that he's a freakish athlete. He does have good defensive instincts, quick with his feet and improved a good deal from his first year in Miami to his second(injuries held him back a bit). If he gained a good 15 pounds I'd be more adamant in where I see him.

[Scalabrine]

Derrick Jones jr

You know, I've seen a few Heat fans mention him as a young asset or building block and it has me wondering...

What is it about him outside of his tremendous dunking ability that gets people excited? He can't shoot, his defensive numbers are good but not great (maybe better in person?), he's not a playmaker for other, I guess he's a good rebounder for his size but that's largely scheme based for a lot of players (and that's supported by his reb% taking a big jump in Miami compared to Phoenix).

What do you guys, who watch him more often, see in him that the numbers don't show? What makes you think he's ready to take the next step and be an above average starter/borderline All-Star in the league? What makes him better than guys like Torrey Craig, Pat Cannaughton, Mario Hezonja, Alfonzo McKinnie, or Royce O'Neal (capable rotation players, but not stars or even starters on most teams) ?

They need to root for somebody.... One of the heats homers said he's more impactful than FVV a few weeks ago.
Connaughton is my dark horse. With Brogdon gone, he's going to be soaking up those SG mins for the bucks.

Brogdon missed close to 20 games last year and Canaughton filled in admirably but he wasn't even close to an all-star, which to me is what the topic of this thread is about...

[Scalabrine]

They need to root for somebody.... One of the heats homers said he's more impactful than FVV a few weeks ago.
Connaughton is my dark horse. With Brogdon gone, he's going to be soaking up those SG mins for the bucks.

what impact do you see Connaughton having that puts him into this conversation? I always thought he was primarily a shooter, is there more to his game that Brogdon leaving opens up? Also do you have him beating Wes Matthews out for those minutes?

Really? I think most people think of him as a dunker, because of his insane hops for a guy his size. His off-on numbers seemed really good for someone with level of minutes.

Is white a size now??

[Scalabrine]

Derrick Jones jr

You know, I've seen a few Heat fans mention him as a young asset or building block and it has me wondering...

What is it about him outside of his tremendous dunking ability that gets people excited? He can't shoot, his defensive numbers are good but not great (maybe better in person?), he's not a playmaker for other, I guess he's a good rebounder for his size but that's largely scheme based for a lot of players (and that's supported by his reb% taking a big jump in Miami compared to Phoenix).

What do you guys, who watch him more often, see in him that the numbers don't show? What makes you think he's ready to take the next step and be an above average starter/borderline All-Star in the league? What makes him better than guys like Torrey Craig, Pat Cannaughton, Mario Hezonja, Alfonzo McKinnie, or Royce O'Neal (capable rotation players, but not stars or even starters on most teams) ?

Its not that serious dude, DJJ is an exciting prospect with some potential thats all. The premise of this thread is literally which player do you see making an unexpected jump. DJJ would fit in that mold being 21. He still has time to develop and its no news that he's a freakish athlete. He does have good defensive instincts, quick with his feet and improved a good deal from his first year in Miami to his second(injuries held him back a bit). If he gained a good 15 pounds I'd be more adamant in where I see him.

I was honestly just asking a question. Didn't mean to get you on your heals there with a legitimate basketball question on a basketball forum I'm sorry if you felt attacked.

Derrick Jones is almost 23 btw.

[Marcus]

I love Isaac but our team has the ‘too many cooks’ problem.

I don’t think Isaac and AG will reach their full potential while Vuc is on the same team

Been meaning to visit yall's board to see what the thoughts are on Okeke considering what you have in AG and Isaac.

It’s a cluster f. Even giving Vuc a max after drafting Bamba is a head scratcher

Yeah i didn't get that either. Immediately i figured they've perhaps soured on Bamba.

[miamiheat319]

Might be this guy here. His potential is through the roof.

Read on Twitter

Man I hope so. Imo he has pre-injury Amar’e athleticism. If he could reach that level of play too, that’d be amazing.

[matt6715]

Bam Adebayo is the correct answer here. This guy is developing into a beast and is super skilled

[Sign5]

You know, I've seen a few Heat fans mention him as a young asset or building block and it has me wondering...

What is it about him outside of his tremendous dunking ability that gets people excited? He can't shoot, his defensive numbers are good but not great (maybe better in person?), he's not a playmaker for other, I guess he's a good rebounder for his size but that's largely scheme based for a lot of players (and that's supported by his reb% taking a big jump in Miami compared to Phoenix).

What do you guys, who watch him more often, see in him that the numbers don't show? What makes you think he's ready to take the next step and be an above average starter/borderline All-Star in the league? What makes him better than guys like Torrey Craig, Pat Cannaughton, Mario Hezonja, Alfonzo McKinnie, or Royce O'Neal (capable rotation players, but not stars or even starters on most teams) ?

Its not that serious dude, DJJ is an exciting prospect with some potential thats all. The premise of this thread is literally which player do you see making an unexpected jump. DJJ would fit in that mold being 21. He still has time to develop and its no news that he's a freakish athlete. He does have good defensive instincts, quick with his feet and improved a good deal from his first year in Miami to his second(injuries held him back a bit). If he gained a good 15 pounds I'd be more adamant in where I see him.

I was honestly just asking a question. Didn't mean to get you on your heals there with a legitimate basketball question on a basketball forum I'm sorry if you felt attacked.

Derrick Jones is almost 23 btw.

Never said i felt attacked, you're the one that wrote the dissertation on something so simple to assess. I wouldn't say theres some high chance he becomes a star but hes shown glimpes of using his freakish athletic tools to really impact the game. He's 23 next feb yes, (also the same age range as Heat's other prospects).

[Scalabrine]

Its not that serious dude, DJJ is an exciting prospect with some potential thats all. The premise of this thread is literally which player do you see making an unexpected jump. DJJ would fit in that mold being 21. He still has time to develop and its no news that he's a freakish athlete. He does have good defensive instincts, quick with his feet and improved a good deal from his first year in Miami to his second(injuries held him back a bit). If he gained a good 15 pounds I'd be more adamant in where I see him.

I was honestly just asking a question. Didn't mean to get you on your heals there with a legitimate basketball question on a basketball forum I'm sorry if you felt attacked.

Derrick Jones is almost 23 btw.

Never said i felt attacked, you're the one that wrote the dissertation on something so simple to assess. I wouldn't say theres some high chance he becomes a star but hes shown glimpes of using his freakish athletic tools to really impact the game. He's 23 next feb yes, (also the same age range as Heat's other prospects).

Dissertation? That was literally 5 sentences haha!

We're on a basketball forum, I figured we're here to talk basketball! I haven't really watched him play, and his numbers don't stand out, so I was just asking a few questions hoping you or another Heat fan could answer them. I was genuinely curious if he had that borderline all-star potential (which is the premise of this thread). I realize you're probably not the one to answer that seeing as you don't even know how old he is.

Are you here just for memes and the TMZ reports?

You're probably too young to even know what a dissertation is so I'll just chalk it up to that...

[Sign5]

I was honestly just asking a question. Didn't mean to get you on your heals there with a legitimate basketball question on a basketball forum I'm sorry if you felt attacked.

Derrick Jones is almost 23 btw.

Never said i felt attacked, you're the one that wrote the dissertation on something so simple to assess. I wouldn't say theres some high chance he becomes a star but hes shown glimpes of using his freakish athletic tools to really impact the game. He's 23 next feb yes, (also the same age range as Heat's other prospects).

Dissertation? That was literally 5 sentences haha!

We're on a basketball forum, I figured we're here to talk basketball! I haven't really watched him play, and his numbers don't stand out, so I was just asking a few questions hoping you or another Heat fan could answer them. I was genuinely curious if he had that borderline all-star potential (which is the premise of this thread). I realize you're probably not the one to answer that seeing as you don't even know how old he is.

Are you here just for memes and the TMZ reports?

You're probably too young to even know what a dissertation is so I'll just chalk it up to that...

Oh quit the condescending and passive aggressive comments you sound silly. You wrote 5 paragraph trying to figure why a young highflyer is garning intrigue from a fan base. I'm most likely older than you the way you're phrasing these stale sarcastic "oh maybe you're just here memes" BS. 22 turning 23 is still considered young or am i missing something? Mitchell Robinson is literally 22 next year, im guessing he wont improve much by what you're trying to imply huh? Anybody who knows basketball knows players develop until they're about 25-26 then they hit their prime.

Then again you are knicks fan, so the knowledge understandably aint running too deep. Since I know its hard to process what potential looks like in players, since y'all think every one of your prospects is the next mj/hakeem (only to end up with jerome jordans and jordan hills for the last 2 decades)

[gpoon]

I'll give you the spot up jumper, but the ISO scoring was always there. He was taking guys off the dribble and posting people up his rookie year with the 905. And I vehemently disagree on your take, I think you're marginalizing how important self confidence is on a professional level. Being a Raptors fan you should know with Fred VanVleet.

Very different game the G league vs NBA, a lot of G league MVPs cant even get a role in the NBA so comparing what he did there is sorta irrelevant. Pascal in his second year was no where near as polished. He had the athleticism and speed to take guys off the dribble and post but he didnt have the ability to finish. His shot was not good at all from anywhere on the court in his sophomore year, but he developed a very respectable shot last year.

If we're to dismiss the showings of every single prospect to exist on a lower level then literally everything an NCAA player has done should be thrown out the window just because it's against inferior competition. No you literally can't take that player, throw him into the NBA, and expect him to replicate that without a hitch. Polish and adjusting those skills to be applicable against the best competition in the world is part of the growing pains, and for a lot of players it's a hump that's too hard to overcome. Pascal worked his ass off to get where he did.

My point is that people are acting like Pascal Siakam developed these skills overnight. I don't blame them for not knowing because who has time to watch the developmental team of the Raptors, I'm just telling everyone that yes he worked hard, but it didn't come out of the blue either. The footwork, the post ups, taking players off the dribble, he showed these skills off in the 905. No they weren't NBA ready yet, but he was working with a great base already, he just needed to continue working hard so that it'd be usable against the best of the best. And I don't doubt that he improved on these skills already, but it's not like he started from level 1 to level 60. Those few of us that watched the 905 knew what he was capable of. We weren't all certain that he'd be a surefire star, but if he did it wouldn't have surprised us.

Watch on YouTube

im not dismissing the NCAA, NCAA and G League are two totally different leagues. different stages in players careers most college kids aren't even fully developed physically., Most players play in college before heading to the NBA (Pascal is no different), he had time to play in college he went through the normal progression. I have the skills to shot and dribble around people in a rec league does that mean it will translate to a higher level? probably not.

lets look at last years NCAA all american vs All G League team who you putting your money on?

RJ Barrett SG
Rui Hachimura
Ja Morant PG
Grant Williams
Zion Williamson

Chris Boucher
Angel Delgado
Jordan Loyd
Jordan McRae
Alan Williams

I think im getting off topic, but it comes down to even after his sophomore year majority of us thought OG would be the better prospect than Pascal. he had the physical tools to be good but that doesn't always translate. im sure 80% of people would never have thought he would be much better than a decent role player let alone the #1 option on a team...

[Kabookalu]

Very different game the G league vs NBA, a lot of G league MVPs cant even get a role in the NBA so comparing what he did there is sorta irrelevant. Pascal in his second year was no where near as polished. He had the athleticism and speed to take guys off the dribble and post but he didnt have the ability to finish. His shot was not good at all from anywhere on the court in his sophomore year, but he developed a very respectable shot last year.

If we're to dismiss the showings of every single prospect to exist on a lower level then literally everything an NCAA player has done should be thrown out the window just because it's against inferior competition. No you literally can't take that player, throw him into the NBA, and expect him to replicate that without a hitch. Polish and adjusting those skills to be applicable against the best competition in the world is part of the growing pains, and for a lot of players it's a hump that's too hard to overcome. Pascal worked his ass off to get where he did.

My point is that people are acting like Pascal Siakam developed these skills overnight. I don't blame them for not knowing because who has time to watch the developmental team of the Raptors, I'm just telling everyone that yes he worked hard, but it didn't come out of the blue either. The footwork, the post ups, taking players off the dribble, he showed these skills off in the 905. No they weren't NBA ready yet, but he was working with a great base already, he just needed to continue working hard so that it'd be usable against the best of the best. And I don't doubt that he improved on these skills already, but it's not like he started from level 1 to level 60. Those few of us that watched the 905 knew what he was capable of. We weren't all certain that he'd be a surefire star, but if he did it wouldn't have surprised us.

Watch on YouTube

im not dismissing the NCAA, NCAA and G League are two totally different leagues. different stages in players careers most college kids aren't even fully developed physically., Most players play in college before heading to the NBA (Pascal is no different), he had time to play in college he went through the normal progression. I have the skills to shot and dribble around people in a rec league does that mean it will translate to a higher level? probably not.

lets look at last years NCAA all american vs All G League team who you putting your money on?

RJ Barrett SG
Rui Hachimura
Ja Morant PG
Grant Williams
Zion Williamson

Chris Boucher
Angel Delgado
Jordan Loyd
Jordan McRae
Alan Williams

I think im getting off topic, but it comes down to even after his sophomore year majority of us thought OG would be the better prospect than Pascal. he had the physical tools to be good but that doesn't always translate. im sure 80% of people would never have thought he would be much better than a decent role player let alone the #1 option on a team...

You're looking past at what I was trying to say. It's not about the credibility of the leagues and how they fare against each other, but if the G-League presents a decent window in showcasing a player's full skillbase that they can't exercise on their main team. In very technical terms every single player is not being used to their full potential, though the question becomes how valuable is their toolkit and overall game to make it worth making them a piece of the pie. You may in theory have a skillset that could be useful for a team, but it wouldn't be worth it. No shot at you, I have great handles (dribbled a tennis ball every single day late middle school and high school because I heard Steve Nash did it, ran point for all my teams until I declined with age), though I'm not worth investing for an NBA team.

Everyone knew Pascal Siakam had the athleticism to compete with the big boys, but no one knew he could post people up, take them off the dribble, create for his teammates, and act as a secondary ballhandler until he did it in the D-League (or in New Mexico St., I never watched his games in college). Just watch that video, those are moves he was pulling off in his rookie year. They're the same moves he used throughout all of last season. But in his rookie year he was not doing any of this besides running down the court and getting touchdown dunks from Lowry.

And once again I don'y deny that he's made actual tangible improvements, because it still takes a lot of work for players to speed those skills up and make them applicable against the best in the world. There are a lot of prospects throughout the years that I've had faith could make it in the NBA, but didn't want to work for it anymore. The act of adding entirely new skills that the player never possessed before usually doesn't happen often in the NBA (Kawhi's a unique case). I was watching a rookie game of Dirk, and he didn''t look too differently from his MVP self, even pulled off the one legged fadeaway, but he lacked the polish and experience to make it work on an NBA level. He worked his ass off until he could.

My main point is that he didn't literally transform into a new player overnight. He wasn't just an empty canvas of supreme athleticism and motor with no skills to his name. Besides the corner 3 a lot of these skills already existed. That's the assumption a lot of people are making with Siakam.

[The_Hater]

I think im getting off topic, but it comes down to even after his sophomore year majority of us thought OG would be the better prospect than Pascal. he had the physical tools to be good but that doesn't always translate. im sure 80% of people would never have thought he would be much better than a decent role player let alone the #1 option on a team...

I think it was closer to split down the middle during the summer of 2018. I was never really drinking the OG hype because he had (has) a terrible handle and without a great handle you're never going to be a big perimeter scorer in this league. OG also has a low motor which an underrated skill, while PS obviously has a very high motor. I always had OG pegged as a 3 and D not a star of any kind.

By the end of his 2nd year Siakam was already showing a lot of growth in his game, although he's exceeded even my wildest expectations already, and the only question became how much weight do we put on their difference in age?

[babyjax13]

I'll go Donovan Mitchell, although it won't be as much of a jump as people think. He will just have similar averages to when his foot healed up, something like 26/5/5 on 46/38/80 shooting.

[Knicksfan20]

I think Frank Ntilikina has the potential to be a Siakam type of player. He has the ability, he just needs to put it together in his head.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

I do understand he improved a lot and has't been playing ball for long, but 16 pts is not that crazy. I could see a young guy having that type of season. There are some talented young dudes.

He increased his scoring by 10 points per game and by 6.5 points per 36 minutes, while increasing his TS% from average (55%) to elite (63%).

I don’t see that kind of jump happening for anyone this year

Exactly. And he improved his defense from above average to near elite as well. He’s become an all-around player with very few weaknesses in his game.

Tracy Macgrady tried to argue last spring that Siakam’s improvement was entirely due to an increase in MPG.

Tracy Macgrady doesn’t know how to read statistics properly.

I'm once again amazed at how little guys like McGrady know about basketball. I'm fairly sure McGrady's percentages and defence dropped off with an increase in minutes and offensive load, not that he thought about it all that much.

[Scalabrine]

Never said i felt attacked, you're the one that wrote the dissertation on something so simple to assess. I wouldn't say theres some high chance he becomes a star but hes shown glimpes of using his freakish athletic tools to really impact the game. He's 23 next feb yes, (also the same age range as Heat's other prospects).

Dissertation? That was literally 5 sentences haha!

We're on a basketball forum, I figured we're here to talk basketball! I haven't really watched him play, and his numbers don't stand out, so I was just asking a few questions hoping you or another Heat fan could answer them. I was genuinely curious if he had that borderline all-star potential (which is the premise of this thread). I realize you're probably not the one to answer that seeing as you don't even know how old he is.

Are you here just for memes and the TMZ reports?

You're probably too young to even know what a dissertation is so I'll just chalk it up to that...

Oh quit the condescending and passive aggressive comments you sound silly. You wrote 5 paragraph trying to figure why a young highflyer is garning intrigue from a fan base. I'm most likely older than you the way you're phrasing these stale sarcastic "oh maybe you're just here memes" BS. 22 turning 23 is still considered young or am i missing something? Mitchell Robinson is literally 22 next year, im guessing he wont improve much by what you're trying to imply huh? Anybody who knows basketball knows players develop until they're about 25-26 then they hit their prime.

Then again you are knicks fan, so the knowledge understandably aint running too deep. Since I know its hard to process what potential looks like in players, since y'all think every one of your prospects is the next mj/hakeem (only to end up with jerome jordans and jordan hills for the last 2 decades)

Whats your deal, dude?

I'm not trying to attack you or criticize Derrick Jones. I was honestly just asking why you think he has potential to break out and admitted that I haven't seen much of him. I was hoping someone that watches him more than me could help me figure out why I've read multiple Heat fans think he has potential to have a Siakam level breakout.

This has nothing at all to do with the Knicks and I don't even know why your'e bringing them up. If you wanted to ask me (or anyone who watches the Knicks) about one of our young players, I'd tell you my opinion, because you probably haven't really watched him. I wouldn't be a dick.

Also, it was 5 sentences, not 5 paragraphs.