Malik Monk

[Ettorefm]

Like Monk, Booker was seen as a shooter and that's it. Not a good finisher, not a good ballhandler, not a good defender. Sixth man was probably his upside too, right?

Booker is not 6'3 and does have a defined position in the NBA. That alone excludes him from being a 6th man upside.

[Dr Positivity]

I still have a hard time seeing Kings draft non shooting PG Fox when they could take Monk and call him the next Curry

[toussaud]

i actually know malik/ the monks (his brother played at arkansas) personally lol monk isn't booker. he's more athletic but cdoesn't have his length or height or ball handling abilty. booker just never had to handle the ball. monk doesn't have a tight handle. he could develop one. but he doesnt have one now.; he's a 2- dribble pull up guy. his right hand is okay but he can't go left with authority

[Bum Adebayo]

Yes, his wingspan is 6'6 or so, but his height is less than 6'4, so still his wingspan is not elite and he doesn't make up for it with a good frame.

[Pinkyring]

Even if he is a super athletic jason terry that still warrants a top 10 pick

[Duke4life831]

Even if he is a super athletic jason terry that still warrants a top 10 pick

I dont think too many people are doubting he is worth a top 10 pick. When I say 6th man and I think when many others say 6th man is his ceiling, we are talking the elite 6th man like a Crawford or Lou Williams or JR before going to the Cavs. A guy that you know at the end of the year his name is going to be in consideration for 6th MOY.

Monk is just one of those guys that doesnt really have a position on offense and cant defend to save his life. Offensively doesnt have the game where you can see him being a consistent scorer game in and game out because of his high loose dribble. Hes the type of guy that can shoot you to a win or shoot you out of a game. Those type of guys are best coming off the bench to see if theyre hot and if they can give your team a spark.

[The_Hater]

I still have a hard time seeing Kings draft non shooting PG Fox when they could take Monk and call him the next Curry

You can't have two 'next Curry's' on your roster. Too confusing for the coaching staff.

[The_Hater]

Even if he is a super athletic jason terry that still warrants a top 10 pick

If he's a super athletic Jason Terry clone that probably warrants a top 5 pick.

Terry has played 41000 NBA minutes, he's 4th in a strong 99 draft class in wins shares He was 2nd in ppg and apg on an NBA champion. He's top 70 all time in both points and assists.

I don't think Monk's that good, but don't use Jason Terry as the reason to downgrade him

[Pinkyring]

Even if he is a super athletic jason terry that still warrants a top 10 pick

If he's a super athletic Jason Terry clone that probably warrants a top 5 pick.

Terry has played 41000 NBA minutes, he's 4th in a strong 99 draft class in wins shares He was 2nd in ppg and apg on an NBA champion. He's top 70 all time in both points and assists.

I don't think Monk's that good, but don't use Jason Terry as the reason to downgrade him

Im not i love jet people are just acting like monk is some scrub because he's a combo guard but i dont mind it at all. I want him in dallas god shamgod is one of our player development coaches and i think he can get monks handles up to par.

[doordoor123]

I broke down Monk's game recently and man he can be a beast. He's smaller, but his quickness and separation are legit. I think he's the second best player in the draft. He thing is he's using advanced moves and moves that will translate to the NBA. When he killed North Carolina he destroyed Justin Jackson, who is 6'8 with a 6'10 wingspan. It's crazy to me that he's doing this stuff at 19. When he figures out his spots and the pace of the NBA he's going to be really **** good. I don't even think it's a question and people are going to ask why he went so low. I also think he's a better passer than he has shown. He has flashes passing, where he makes some really tough ones. His speed is going to help him with his passing in the NBA too.

[King Ken]

I highlighted what I thought was the two best posts from this thread. I read all of them. A lot of great and solid takes but these two stood out the most.

I broke down Monk's game recently and man he can be a beast. He's smaller, but his quickness and separation are legit. I think he's the second best player in the draft. He thing is he's using advanced moves and moves that will translate to the NBA. When he killed North Carolina he destroyed Justin Jackson, who is 6'8 with a 6'10 wingspan. It's crazy to me that he's doing this stuff at 19. When he figures out his spots and the pace of the NBA he's going to be really **** good. I don't even think it's a question and people are going to ask why he went so low. I also think he's a better passer than he has shown. He has flashes passing, where he makes some really tough ones. His speed is going to help him with his passing in the NBA too.

kid has a lot of work to do. hes a toll booth on defense. extremely inconsistent volume shooter with no left hand to speak of. i know he is one and done but if there was ever a kid who would benefit from three years of college, hes it. his game is 100% dependent on fox right now

Threads like this are always interesting in retrospect. I still like Monk's game but it's clear, situation is king in the NBA. Both of these are true.

His advanced moves does translate as we seen with his scoring outbursts but what Mitchell had that translated was his high end 3pt variance which Monk lacked. Even when he tried the moves, it came out like Steve Francis spinning the wheel and landing on Dr. J dunks. He didn't have the natural footwork even if he has the natural skills. He instantly got off balance after the stepback 3. Something that rarely if ever happens to Mitchell. His pullup 3 was 24% as a rookie and he just finally stopped doing it as a 2nd year player realizing, he's doesn't have the footwork for it.

As a poster mentioned, Monk is a C&S and spot up killer. But you aren't running him off screens, etc.

Watch on YouTube

That said, he has plenty of skill. The biggest thing I saw was what I seen at UK. He can get to any spot on the court but unlike at UK. He didn't have space in the NBA for his franchise. Fox wasn't there with the Hornets. Defense wasn't sucking in and Charlotte lacks floor spacers who can defend as well which they don't like to play with types like Monk. Defenders didn't respect shooters like Tony Parker, MKG, and other players which cut off the lane and spacing for Monk.

https://streamable.com/nbrsf
https://streamable.com/0yjdm

Each time Monk beat his man but didn't have space. Now, players with great strength or body control like Kemba or Lou Will can draw fouls in this case but Monk lacking both just throws up a bad FG attempt.

Situation matters a lot. In the case of Monk, he landed somewhere much worse than he played in college at and struggled severely. The biggest thing I always here is if I was drafted here, man, my career would be different and they are right. It might just be. A Hornet fan said this:

Monk needs to play in a modern offense where the pace is quick and the ball doesn't stop. He needs the floor spaced so he can get either open threes, clear driving lanes, or one dribble into a wide-open mid-range shot, that is his game. I'm firmly convinced that if he played with a garbage squad who at least pushed the pace, like Phoenix, he'd look much better. If he played on a good team, like GS or Houston, who plays a fast style he'd contribute less but still likely look far better.

Much like Braggins mentioned with Frank/Cody/MKG, Monk's development is being wasted. I think the common denominator conservative, and more importantly totally outdated, strategy. What good team in the NBA plays a style even somewhat similar to Cliff-ball (which is just a variation of Van Gundy ball)? No one. There's good reason for that, I think. The game has changed and we're trying to force new-age pegs into old-school holes and failing all sides miserably in the process.

We can talk to our face turns blue. Love this prospect or that prospect but outside of LeBron James, MJ, and guys like that. Most of these guys need the right situation to become the best version of themselves as possible.

[GimmeDat]

Interesting one to look back on Ken. I think when a guy has as impressive a season statistically as Monk had as a freshman, you try to talk yourself in to them a bit. Like he had 24.8pp/40 on a 58.6 TS%, it's hard to imagine that guy wouldn't be a good scorer in the NBA.

Big board wise, I remember having him down a little bit because of the nature of his archetype (a scoring, undersized 2 likely to be a defensive minus), but I felt pretty good about him maxing out that archetype and being a great scorer.

I do think situation has had a big part to play. He does need to play in an uptempo system. I love Kemba but I don't think that was ever a great back-court fit for him to step into. Charlotte hasn't been the most functional place to develop prospects over the last decade.

If there's something I might take from the thoughts I posted a couple of years ago, maybe that we/I need to expect a higher creation/shot versatility threshold for success within this archetype of a smaller scoring SG type. I mentioned then that I thought Murray had a greater versatility in terms of getting his getting his shot off/off the dribble stuff, but that Monk was 'a more elite catch and shoot threat'. I also didn't realize how well-rounded Murray was going to be as a scorer/creator as well, which is the other side of the coin when it comes to comparing those 2's NBA careers so far.

Hope Monk finds himself in a good situation, I certainly still would like what I would see if he was a prospect right now again, and I think he can still carve out a good career for himself somewhere. But a super rough first couple of years for him.

[King Ken]

Interesting one to look back on Ken. I think when a guy has as impressive a season statistically as Monk had as a freshman, you try to talk yourself in to them a bit. Like he had 24.8pp/40 on a 58.6 TS%, it's hard to imagine that guy wouldn't be a good scorer in the NBA.

Big board wise, I remember having him down a little bit because of the nature of his archetype (a scoring, undersized 2 likely to be a defensive minus), but I felt pretty good about him maxing out that archetype and being a great scorer.

I do think situation has had a big part to play. He does need to play in an uptempo system. I love Kemba but I don't think that was ever a great back-court fit for him to step into. Charlotte hasn't been the most functional place to develop prospects over the last decade.

If there's something I might take from the thoughts I posted a couple of years ago, maybe that we/I need to expect a higher creation/shot versatility threshold for success within this archetype of a smaller scoring SG type. I mentioned then that I thought Murray had a greater versatility in terms of getting his getting his shot off/off the dribble stuff, but that Monk was 'a more elite catch and shoot threat'. I also didn't realize how well-rounded Murray was going to be as a scorer/creator as well, which is the other side of the coin when it comes to comparing those 2's NBA careers so far.

Hope Monk finds himself in a good situation, I certainly still would like what I would see if he was a prospect right now again, and I think he can still carve out a good career for himself somewhere. But a super rough first couple of years for him.

A big advantage of Murray is, he can play PG on offense as Jokic is the real PG on the Nuggets. Situation is really the key to player development. Spencer Dinwiddle went to three teams and Brooklyn fit and he's now on a big contract with respect from his peers.

We do need to have a ranking for what's most important for shooters.
1.
2.
3.
etc...

[MemphisX]

Yep, situation really does matter and I think it is a very underrated aspect of the NBA draft. Compare Mo Bamba to Mitchell Robinson. This is why I do not begrudge players forcing their ways out of or into situations. It could be the difference between making $100 million in your career or being a journeyman begging for contracts.

[clyde21]

Monk wasn't that good of a prospect, and it's not hindsight, he was a weak, undersized 2 with strength issues, and didn't have the playmaking to compensate for it, and defensively he projected to continuously get smoked in the NBA and his scoring was way too hot/cold for my liking

really projected as nothing more than a decent scoring 6th man as a best case scenario, but I don't see him as a starting 2 or combo guard in the NBA moving forward

[Duke4life831]

I always hold my breath when these old threads get brought up, I always think to myself, "oh man what stupid crap did I say on this guy." haha. But Im pretty happy with my takes on him

"I dont think many people are talking about him because I think many people realized the type of prospect he is by the time the season ended. Hes not this super great shooter like many people thought at the start of the year, hes a very hot or cold type shooter (like JR Smith) but not a consistent one, hes not a playmaker at all, his handles are very basic and is pretty much only a straight line driver and probably wont be able to create much for himself in the half court. And hes a 6'3 SG with a tiny wingspan that is a terrible defender."

"The big issue with Monk is he has a really bad combination of lack of size and lack of handles. Hes going to be a massive liability defensively and I have a very hard time seeing him being able to create great shots for himself consistently in the half court."

[clyde21]

Tyrese Maxey this year actually reminds me a bit of Monk but I like Maxey a bit better at this point than I did Monk

[King Ken]

I always hold my breath when these old threads get brought up, I always think to myself, "oh man what stupid crap did I say on this guy." haha. But Im pretty happy with my takes on him

"I dont think many people are talking about him because I think many people realized the type of prospect he is by the time the season ended. Hes not this super great shooter like many people thought at the start of the year, hes a very hot or cold type shooter (like JR Smith) but not a consistent one, hes not a playmaker at all, his handles are very basic and is pretty much only a straight line driver and probably wont be able to create much for himself in the half court. And hes a 6'3 SG with a tiny wingspan that is a terrible defender."

"The big issue with Monk is he has a really bad combination of lack of size and lack of handles. Hes going to be a massive liability defensively and I have a very hard time seeing him being able to create great shots for himself consistently in the half court."

I wasn't super high on him as a prospect but I would be lying if I said I felt Mitchell was a better prospect.

Monk is comparable to Smith in terms of being best at C&S and spot ups but Monk was good at moving without the ball at UK. He was good in transition and he was really good in space. These are three areas where he just stop getting in the NBA at a decent rate when he got it at UK in a very good rate.

Smith in space isn't much better than Smith in transition or in the half court. He is pretty limited to the Q Rich volume 3pt shooting wing who needs to play around a creator or a player with elite offensive gravity who can get away with it to a degree as they provide size and some defense. Monk just hasn't been used to the best of his abilities.

The three things he does at a very high level, he doesn't really get the opportunity to do at a decent rate. Defensively, he is coming along like I expected. He needed a lot of time. In the NCAA, he played M2M but v. any NBA level talent, he was food and that is what's happening in the NBA for him. Add the fact that his off ball defense was always a work in progress.

I do agree, his lack of size and his lack of handle in traffic is his killer right now. I don't think his defensive potential is that bad. I think he has a chance to be a slight negative defensively when it's all said and done. 6'6 wingspan ain't terrible for a SG but when you aren't effective on offense, you got to work twice as hard on defense not to be a major liability. I still see defensive flashes especially after evaluating his recent tape.

I still think he can score 27-30ppg per36 one day. He still got the talent and advanced moves. It's not like he can't get to anywhere on the court because he can. He's not J.R. Smith. He just has to be a lot more if he isn't used right because he doesn't have the size, strength or length.

I've never been one to say he is a starter or at best 6th man long term. Situations determine that more than anything. If you use Malik Monk to be J.R. Smith, you will get an infinitely worse player than J.R. Smith.

You were dead on to what could be if he is miscasted.

[Marcus]

We can talk to our face turns blue. Love this prospect or that prospect but outside of LeBron James, MJ, and guys like that. Most of these guys need the right situation to become the best version of themselves as possible.

I was actually thinking about this on the drive into work this morning. I think a closer look should be put into how a player fits onto a team outside of just how talented a kid is. Not everybody can be the KD, Bron, Giannis type of player where it likely wont matter where you put them their ability is gonna work regardless. We have to look at these kids in terms of that role player fit. Can't roll the ball out to every prospect and say go get it. I felt that way about a few prospects and it didn't work out so far due to fit. But that needs to be factored in as well. What are the strengths of these kids and how will that work with team 1 - 32 with the current personnel on said team.


Also just to piggyback on something else i said in regards to Monk. Is there much difference between what he brings to the table and what Allonzo Trier brings? Switch their situations and what do we have?

[King Ken]

We can talk to our face turns blue. Love this prospect or that prospect but outside of LeBron James, MJ, and guys like that. Most of these guys need the right situation to become the best version of themselves as possible.

I was actually thinking about this on the drive into work this morning. I think a closer look should be put into how a player fits onto a team outside of just how talented a kid is. Not everybody can be the KD, Bron, Giannis type of player where it likely wont matter where you put them they're ability is gonna work regardless. We have to look at these kids in terms of that role player fit. Can't roll the ball out to every prospect and say go get it. I felt that way about a few prospects and it didn't work out so far due to fit. But that needs to be factored in as well. What are the strengths of these kids and how will that work with team 1 - 32 with the current personnel on said team.


Also just to piggyback on something else i said in regards to Monk. Is there much difference between what he brings to the table and what Allonzo Trier brings? Switch their situations and what do we have?

There is a massive difference. Trier would be terrible if he had to be accounted for. Right now, he can play his game. Trier for the Knicks is doing what his skill-set offers. That's why he looks like a steal compared to Trier at Arizona who looked like a scrub.

As for Monk, he needs the right system and personnel to play his game. Right now, he can only partially play his game. Considering some of his flaws, this is a severe issue as he doesn't have a strong base which is typical of boom or bust types. Monk could be extremely effective in the ideal situation right now while in a situation that's average to bad, could look worse than Trier to some people.

For me, it's all about three things when it comes to can this player fit anywhere.

1. Base - some guys with weak bases have great situational value like Klay Thompson, D. Mitchell, Bradley Beal, K. Leonard and the other side of it which failed is O.J. Mayo, Elfrid Payton, Lonzo Ball, Nik Stauskas, Darko, etc.

2. Who's around them - The better the personnel who fits the better the prospect.

3. What is it they extremely well and can it translate? If it doesn't, bust kingdom, here they come