If Lebron is the GOAT then how did he allow younger star players to catch him in rings already in his era?

Fencer reregistered · Post #41 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:08 am

Joerezz7 wrote:He allowed younger star players like Steph and Klay to catch him in rings and they are younger. If KD played against the Raptors they would have more rings than him and KD would have the same amount of rings as him.

This is why Lebron will never be in the same tier as Kobe and MJ. MJ went 6-0 in the Finals and Kobe went 5-2 in the Finals. Kobe would never allow younger star players to catch him in rings in his era. Same with MJ.

How can you be the GOAT when younger star players catch you in rings basically forming a dynasty in your era? Let’s not forget Dirk getting a ring in his era and he lost to a bum like Dwight Howard in 2009. Lakers manhandled that same Magic team.

Unless Lebron wins another ring you can’t put him in the same tier as lethal offense players like Kobe and MJ.

Warriors had a GOAT executive. (I see West and Auerbach as a clear top two, but keep changing my mind as to which I'd put ahead of the other.)

Ice Trae · Post #42 » by **Ice Trae** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:34 am

This is what you call Shaqnalysis

Down3223 · Post #43 » by **Down3223** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:36 am

Joerezz7 wrote:He allowed younger star players like Steph and Klay to catch him in rings and they are younger. If KD played against the Raptors they would have more rings than him and KD would have the same amount of rings as him.

This is why Lebron will never be in the same tier as Kobe and MJ. MJ went 6-0 in the Finals and Kobe went 5-2 in the Finals. Kobe would never allow younger star players to catch him in rings in his era. Same with MJ.

How can you be the GOAT when younger star players catch you in rings basically forming a dynasty in your era? Let’s not forget Dirk getting a ring in his era and he lost to a bum like Dwight Howard in 2009. Lakers manhandled that same Magic team.

Unless Lebron wins another ring you can’t put him in the same tier as lethal offense players like Kobe and MJ.

Am I missing something but I recall lebron having more rings, mvps and finals mvp's than Kobe in the post-shaq era. Last time I checked, Kobe only has 2 finals mvp's for a reason

them side-kick rings don't count

Pennebaker · Post #44 » by **Pennebaker** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:37 am

He didnt.

LeBron has 3 Finals MVPs. Which of these younger stars has 3 Finals MVPs?

My point is that none of these younger stars have caught him. None of them have led teams to 3 titles by themselves as the clear alpha.

Kobe hasn't done that either, let alone any of these young guys.

Next question.

Yogatti · Post #45 » by **Yogatti** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:38 am

Nobody’s perfect and Lebron is not the GOAT. That would be Michael Jordan. Despite all your point, Lebron is top 10 all time and best small forward of all time

GregOden · Post #46 » by **GregOden** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:47 am

Joerezz7 wrote:
taikibansei wrote:
Joerezz7 wrote:
Steph is 31 and Klay is 29. Lebron is 35.

Draymond Green is 29, as is Klay. Does it bother you that KD allowed younger players like them to pass him in rings? I mean, KD will retire with at least one ring less than them, making him (by your logic) inferior to them both. Pretty sad, huh?

Warriors will never win another ring again without KD and KD will get at least one ring with the Nets if not two. The east is trash. Only team he has to worry about is Philly.

By the way Warriors lost both 2016 and 2019 Finals without him. I don’t see them getting another ring

You think the Nets are better than the Warriors?

JN61 · Post #47 » by **JN61** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:48 am

Notable thing about so called LeBron era is everyone won during it.

PistolPeteJR · Post #48 » by **PistolPeteJR** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:17 am

JN61 wrote:Notable thing about so called LeBron era is everyone won during it.

Yeah, because teams have nothing to do with winning chips.

Keep it up.

leolozon · Post #49 » by **leolozon** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:28 am

I’ve been watching basketball for a long time and I swear I thought it was team sport... oh well, now that I know it’s an individual sport I won’t bother watching the 8 other guys on the court. I can’t wait for Lebron to play Curry!!! Thanks OP, you opened my eyes.

Post #50 » by **-Sammy-** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:00 am

Joerezz7 wrote:
Reeko wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
What's next, they were born in years that came after the year LeBron was born?

I am on the edge of my seat with anticipation waiting to see what gem he will drop on us next.

Kobe didn’t allow younger players who came in the league AFTER HIM to catch him in rings. Neither did MJ

'Kobe didn't allow' :lol:

Kobe didn't have anything to do with it; he didn't even see the postseason for the last 20% of his career.

Individual players don't allow or disallow what teams are trying to do, despite the simplistic hero-narrative that unfortunately permeates sports. Jordan played on some excellent teams that saw lots of favorable matchups in the Finals. He's the GOAT, for sure, but none of those trophies have 'Michael Jordan, NBA Champion' written on them, and there are no championship banners hanging in his living room.

This is a team sport, and the flawed reasoning in this thread (no offense intended to anyone here) aptly demonstrates the folly of conflating individual legacies with team accomplishments.

lakerz12 · Post #51 » by **lakerz12** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:55 am

leolozon wrote:I’ve been watching basketball for a long time and I swore I thought it was team sport... oh well, now that I know it’s an individual sport I won’t bother watching the 8 other guys on the court. I can’t wait for Lebron to play Curry!!! Thanks OP, you opened my eyes.

Then tell everyone to stop saying LeBron beat the 73-9 Warriors.

Zvaart · Post #52 » by **Zvaart** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:03 am

The answer is easy for those who want to listen: last time i checked, basketball is a team sport, and one player, no matter how good, can't carry a team every year to a title. He needs a good supporting cast.

Pg81 · Post #53 » by **Pg81** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:26 am

How is this in any way shape or form an argument? Magic won his first ring when he was 20, MJ when he was 28 when he won his first ring when Magic had already won 5. This really means nothing.

jk31 · Post #54 » by **jk31** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:46 am

Joerezz7 wrote:He allowed younger star players like Steph and Klay to catch him in rings and they are younger. If KD played against the Raptors they would have more rings than him and KD would have the same amount of rings as him.

This is why Lebron will never be in the same tier as Kobe and MJ. MJ went 6-0 in the Finals and Kobe went 5-2 in the Finals. Kobe would never allow younger star players to catch him in rings in his era. Same with MJ.

MJ "lost" 7 times before reaching the finals. Kobe lost 8 times. LeBron lost 4 times.

All of this "he lost this and this many times in the finals" is so annoying. Why is it better to net even reach the finals than to loose in the finals?

Hardaway2step · Post #55 » by **Hardaway2step** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:50 am

GOAT conversation about LeBron was a scam by the NBA to raise up ratings... Man after Jordan retired for the final time it was always "Who's the next Jordan going to be?" NBA was desperate, then they found this goon. He's maybe top 10 but no GOAT

nikster · Post #56 » by **nikster** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:57 am

Hardaway2step wrote:GOAT conversation about LeBron was a scam by the NBA to raise up ratings... Man after Jordan retired for the final time it was always "Who's the next Jordan going to be?" NBA was desperate, then they found this goon. He's maybe top 30 but no GOAT

I’m sure the guy who thinks Lebron is “maybe top 30” is reasonable and objective

HeartBreakKid · Post #57 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:02 pm

jk31 wrote:
Joerezz7 wrote:He allowed younger star players like Steph and Klay to catch him in rings and they are younger. If KD played against the Raptors they would have more rings than him and KD would have the same amount of rings as him.

This is why Lebron will never be in the same tier as Kobe and MJ. MJ went 6-0 in the Finals and Kobe went 5-2 in the Finals. Kobe would never allow younger star players to catch him in rings in his era. Same with MJ.

MJ "lost" 7 times before reaching the finals. Kobe lost 8 times. LeBron lost 4 times.

All of this "he lost this and this many times in the finals" is so annoying. Why is it better to net even reach the finals than to loose in the finals?

because people can then arbitrarily pretend your finals record is akin to a boxing record and prop up their favorite guys!

Gooner · Post #58 » by **Gooner** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:08 pm

Joerezz7 wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Joerezz7 wrote:This is why Lebron will never be in the same tier as Kobe

This is true at least. LeBron will never be demoted to Kobe's tier.

Lebron took too many losses in the Finals to be considered on the same level as Kobe. If Lebron wins one more ring then yea maybe we can consider him better than Kobe or on the same level

No, losses don't matter to them. This is an idnividual sport where the purpose for each player is to get the best stat line possible. LeBron gets his 27-7-7, and he shoots a good percentage! That's a win in itself, even when he loses.

spicy6 · Post #59 » by **spicy6** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:09 pm

Nobody besides shannon sharpe and lebron fans (its expected) call him the GOAT basically nobody rational does. He is a top 3 or 4 player of all time though and thats a tremendous feat in itself.

Gooner · Post #60 » by **Gooner** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:10 pm

spicy6 wrote:Nobody besides shannon sharpe and lebron fans (its expected) call him the GOAT basically nobody rational does. He is a top 3 or 4 player of all time though and thats a tremendous feat in itself.

That GOAT debate is all about marketing. Believe me, Shannon Sharpe knows Jordan is the best of all time.