VanVleet: Toronto is somewhere I can live for a long time

[The_Hater]

FVV can be groomed as Lowry's replacement. Comparing their third year against each other, FVV has better numbers. If you compare their season at age 25, Lowry has slightly better numbers. It would depend on how much he progresses going forward. He needs better assist and rebound numbers this year to get there.

I’m never a big fan of comparing numbers by age in players but it’s especially bad when it comes to Lowry. Very few players in NBA history have had a bigger jump in levels during the 2nd half of their career than KL. His career arc can’t be compared to anyone else because it wasn’t normal.

I would suspect that FVV will have a more normal career arc and he’s already very close to his peak.

That is true. FVV is one guy who also has a weird career arc. He went from a third string point guard - barely. To being a key player on a championship team. However you're right because going through KL's seasons, it seemed like two different players stat-wise.

Raptor fans have been spoiled with late developing players. KL. DD. Pascal. Kawhi. So I guess we have a different idea of what normal development looks like.

[Duffman100]

I'm super torn.

I love Fred, love him so much.

But investing 15-17 million for at best a top 15 point guard, but more realistically a very good bench point guard seems like a dangerous proposition going forward.

[Psubs]

I'm super torn.

I love Fred, love him so much.

But investing 15-17 million for at best a top 15 point guard, but more realistically a very good bench point guard seems like a dangerous proposition going forward.

If you can lock him up on a 4 year extension for that, it's worth it for his prime years. It's like how Powell's contract is now a slight bargain. Just based on him being clutch in the playoffs and especially the finals, that's something special that GM's are constantly searching for.

FVV is a clutch version of Jameer Nelson with good defense. He may only get 1 or 2 allstar appearances but he helps any team win.

[Psubs]

What he's really saying is "I can't wait till they overpay me"

No point in worrying about what is inevitable. No Freddy, no trophy. It's that simple.

Agreed. Put in Delon instead of Fred and no trophy.

[LJKO]

If we keep VanVleet then him and his wife needs to have a baby every year J/Ks

He needs to return to the VanVleet prior season ago

[Jcity08]

I'm super torn.

I love Fred, love him so much.

But investing 15-17 million for at best a top 15 point guard, but more realistically a very good bench point guard seems like a dangerous proposition going forward.

I wouldn't mind us signing him for a 4 year 60 mil contract, with the 4th year being a team option. He does provided much needed scoring off the bench, can blend in with the starting unit easily and isn't a complete liability on the defensive end. Thats more than most backup point guards provide.

[PoundTown]

Dude, is a perfect third guard or possibly a starter Beside a ball dominant and facilitating 2 guard like a harden, not a primary ball handler creator type.

[Uncle Dennis]

Would love to see him stay with us

[Dalek]

I have long been a fan of Van Vleet as he is the heir apparent to Lowry. Looking at his progress it is pretty similar to Lowry at the same age.

Kyle Lowry 2010-11 34.2 MINS .426 FG% (4.6) .376 THREE% 6.7 ASTS 13.5 PPG
Fred VanVleet 2018-19 27.5 MINS .410 FG%(4.6) .378 THREE% 4.8 ASTS 11.0 PPG

http://bkref.com/tiny/CnkEp

If you look at years in the league FVV would come out ahead. I know it is different teams and systems but FVV is still right there and he has the perfect mentor in Lowry.

I think his combination of shooting, sticky defense and the ability to lead a team both on and off the court warrant a $15 million deal. I don't think you would be stuck with Van Vleet at that number and to be honest, it is tough to find a good lead guard like him.

The playoffs were a mixed bag, and he looked lost against Philly, but he came through in Finals. Big game players are so vital and he has proven to be an asset on-court. The problem is everyone compares him to Lowry now when he hasn't had the reps. He can be just as good.

[sidsid]

Even bargain contracts (around 8 mil standard role player money) are iffy now in the trade market. Teams are getting savvy to who warrants money and it's hard to rationalize paying even high level role players like Ibaka their worth.

The quickest way of turning into the Heat (bad Johnson/Johnson/Waiters contracts) is to fall in love with replaceable role players in your downturn years. We're two years away from a great FA class with a clean cap that could be completely undone by immovable FVV/Powell and other contracts.

You can start considering paying guys like that money when you've locked in your superstar core and you're looking to keep the supporting team around for the extended run (so you look to dip into the tax) later.

FVV and Powell aren't on that schedule. You look for bargains in the summer league which you groom and then pay once we have something going post 2021.

[Syd-TK3]

Some time this season Masai has to make a decision on either Fred or Lowry keeping both isn't an option

[Kabookalu]

lol plebs are still doubting Fred.

[poomaster]

I have long been a fan of Van Vleet as he is the heir apparent to Lowry. Looking at his progress it is pretty similar to Lowry at the same age.

Kyle Lowry 2010-11 34.2 MINS .426 FG% (4.6) .376 THREE% 6.7 ASTS 13.5 PPG
Fred VanVleet 2018-19 27.5 MINS .410 FG%(4.6) .378 THREE% 4.8 ASTS 11.0 PPG

http://bkref.com/tiny/CnkEp

If you look at years in the league FVV would come out ahead. I know it is different teams and systems but FVV is still right there and he has the perfect mentor in Lowry.

I think his combination of shooting, sticky defense and the ability to lead a team both on and off the court warrant a $15 million deal. I don't think you would be stuck with Van Vleet at that number and to be honest, it is tough to find a good lead guard like him.

The playoffs were a mixed bag, and he looked lost against Philly, but he came through in Finals. Big game players are so vital and he has proven to be an asset on-court. The problem is everyone compares him to Lowry now when he hasn't had the reps. He can be just as good.

This is laughable, FVV can't run an offense to save his life. Dribble dribble, wave off pick, dribble into post, dribble out of post, lose the ball is his favorite play. He can't run an offense to save his life. He can be shut down when the defense puts a bigger guard on him at the 2. Fred is garbage and not worth more than 7 - 8 mil / year.

[OakleyDokely]

538's Carmelo model really likes him. They project his on court value to be 19.8 million per year over the next 5 years.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/fred-vanvleet/

[OakleyDokely]

I have long been a fan of Van Vleet as he is the heir apparent to Lowry. Looking at his progress it is pretty similar to Lowry at the same age.

Kyle Lowry 2010-11 34.2 MINS .426 FG% (4.6) .376 THREE% 6.7 ASTS 13.5 PPG
Fred VanVleet 2018-19 27.5 MINS .410 FG%(4.6) .378 THREE% 4.8 ASTS 11.0 PPG

http://bkref.com/tiny/CnkEp

If you look at years in the league FVV would come out ahead. I know it is different teams and systems but FVV is still right there and he has the perfect mentor in Lowry.

I think his combination of shooting, sticky defense and the ability to lead a team both on and off the court warrant a $15 million deal. I don't think you would be stuck with Van Vleet at that number and to be honest, it is tough to find a good lead guard like him.

The playoffs were a mixed bag, and he looked lost against Philly, but he came through in Finals. Big game players are so vital and he has proven to be an asset on-court. The problem is everyone compares him to Lowry now when he hasn't had the reps. He can be just as good.

This is laughable, FVV can't run an offense to save his life. Dribble dribble, wave off pick, dribble into post, dribble out of post, lose the ball is his favorite play. He can't run an offense to save his life. He can be shut down when the defense puts a bigger guard on him at the 2. Fred is garbage and not worth more than 7 - 8 mil / year.

a guard who defend, hit the 3 and doesn't turn the ball over and isn't going to get paid below the MLE.

[And1Skip]

Unless his numbers take a big jump this year like 15 and 6, 40% shooting, 30 mpg.. then he's more like a slightly better Patty Mills who never got a big payday (currently on a 4/48 deal in his prime). If Raps management can convince to FVV that his best role is the 3rd guard and sometimes starter - then that's the best bet to not overpay. Spurs seems to have been able to do that with Mills where all these young PGs they develop like Murray and White jump ahead of him in the depth chart. For us, lets see if they found a gem in Davis and whether Davis can play PG in the future.

[NBA Sheady]

For us, lets see if they found a gem in Davis and whether Davis can play PG in the future.

I'm already overly excited about that Kid just from a few highlights. Would love to see what we can do with him.

[niQ]

Would love he is stays. Especially after that Finals performance. But man, it's going to be pricey...

[LBJKB24MJ23]

I was lukewarm on him but his performance in the finals and conference finals was nutty. Almost incomprehensibly effective.

I vote we keep him. I doubt those will be the last big playoff moments from Fred. Dude's just got it.

i mean majorly benefited from having a great team around him.

but he can make shots. no question about that. just don't give him point guard duties and he's a legit threat.

[duppyy]

What he's really saying is "I can't wait till they overpay me"

No point in worrying about what is inevitable. No Freddy, no trophy. It's that simple.

Agreed. Put in Delon instead of Fred and no trophy.

I never said that we would've won without Freddy.

I'm thinking more towards the future of this team.

Fred is a good backup PG as times and other times he's bad. Before he was going crazy against Milwaukee everyone was calling him Bumfleet cause he was atrocious.

He will ask for starting PG money and I wouldn't give him that. If he's going to struggle against lengthy PGs and lengthy lineups(Which the league is trending towards to) he's not the kind of PG you want leading this team in the future especially since he's not a pass first PG.