Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild

[ThunderBolt]

From the athletic aritcle today by Shams:

The Heat have a level of interest in Oklahoma City’s Chris Paul entering the NBA season, league sources said. Paul had shared a strong mutual interest in ending up in Miami after his trade to the Thunder — but the sides could not agree to a deal and now OKC is prepared for Paul to enter training camp as a veteran star and leader. Paul has three years and $124 million left on his deal. Miami will likely elect to see how it starts the season before gauging a new pursuit of Paul, which would take several large contracts to match salary.

Just figure out how to get OKC Winslow in the deal and I’m good.

My thought is that if OKC and Miami simply swapped out bad contacts then that would be a win for OKC. Getting a positive asset like Winslow would require parting with assets. I'm not necessarily against doing that but I can't imagine Paul gets much in the way of a return for Paul by himself. I hope I'm wrong.

[spearsy23]

From the athletic aritcle today by Shams:

Just figure out how to get OKC Winslow in the deal and I’m good.

My thought is that if OKC and Miami simply swapped out bad contacts then that would be a win for OKC. Getting a positive asset like Winslow would require parting with assets. I'm not necessarily against doing that but I can't imagine Paul gets much in the way of a return for Paul by himself. I hope I'm wrong.

It really depends on the bad contracts. Miami's bad contracts are mostly guys that are mediocre players making a bit above market value, vs Paul who is a good player making an exorbitant amount. If we get into the season and are winning games then I'd ask for an asset.

[ThunderBolt]

Just figure out how to get OKC Winslow in the deal and I’m good.

My thought is that if OKC and Miami simply swapped out bad contacts then that would be a win for OKC. Getting a positive asset like Winslow would require parting with assets. I'm not necessarily against doing that but I can't imagine Paul gets much in the way of a return for Paul by himself. I hope I'm wrong.

It really depends on the bad contracts. Miami's bad contracts are mostly guys that are mediocre players making a bit above market value, vs Paul who is a good player making an exorbitant amount. If we get into the season and are winning games then I'd ask for an asset.

I dont know how you assign value to Paul as opposed to Miami’s middle of the road guys. The fact that their contracts are all shorter makes me think that they might have an edge. However they are the ones trying to win, not us.

[Kizz Fastfists]

CP3 is still a positive asset. He is still a player that greatly increases your chances at winning. Houston was significantly better when him on the court last year. It won't take long for a team to make a decent offer for him once the season starts and winning becomes the priority.

[Dadouv47]

CP3 is not a positive asset but he can be if he's playing well and mostly if Miami can't find another way to improve.

[Kizz Fastfists]

CP3 is not a positive asset but he can be if he's playing well and mostly if Miami can't find another way to improve.

Miami isn't the only team that is committed to a short window and needs a PG. Houston won over 68% of their games last year when CP3 played. The demise of CP3 has been greatly overstated. Houston is going to be the biggest surprise in the NBA this year when they are not even close to being a contender.

[Old Man Game]

So when is media day?

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[ThunderBolt]

So when is media day?

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Read on Twitter

[Old Man Game]

Hey we signed Markel Brown? Camp deal? Two way?

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[spearsy23]

CP3 is still a positive asset. He is still a player that greatly increases your chances at winning. Houston was significantly better when him on the court last year. It won't take long for a team to make a decent offer for him once the season starts and winning becomes the priority.

Is Westbrook a positive asset?

[Kizz Fastfists]

Is Westbrook a positive asset?

A would say no, but Houston's ownership disagreed with me and forced the trade. It only takes one team to make the offer for CP3.

[AirP.]

My thought is that if OKC and Miami simply swapped out bad contacts then that would be a win for OKC. Getting a positive asset like Winslow would require parting with assets. I'm not necessarily against doing that but I can't imagine Paul gets much in the way of a return for Paul by himself. I hope I'm wrong.

I think OKC is at a crossroads and could try to create a contender still or do the mini tank.

Create a contender, you currently have CP3, Gallinari, and Adams, that's a really good core but missing good wings but have a lot of assets and could send out Schroder and Roberson with draft picks to add another big player, say overwhelm Washington for Beal or a lesser package for someone like DeRozan. See if Gallinari is open to signing an extension, if not talk to Detroit and Cleveland about what it might take with Gallinari to acquire Blake or Love. CP3, Beal/DeRozan, Gallinari/Blake/Love, and Adams is a strong core for 3+ years and you may still have some solid draft picks to draft younger players or to allow Presti to turn some of the older players into younger guys through trades.

If OKC isn't going to try to contend(which I'm guessing is the case), CP3 needs to be jettisoned. I get not wanting to send out draft picks but not doing so could hurt the team long term. The picks they'd be sending out would probably be non lottery picks(like Miami's) BUT it would allow OKC to lose more games without CP3 which would strengthen OKC's own picks. Is it worth keeping 1 or 2 later 1st round picks and possibly dropping from 5th or 6th in possibly 1 or more to 11th or 12th, I'm not sure you could package a 20th pick with a 11th pick to get into the top 6. Minnesota recently traded the 11th pick and Saric to move up to the 6th pick.

[ThunderBolt]

My thought is that if OKC and Miami simply swapped out bad contacts then that would be a win for OKC. Getting a positive asset like Winslow would require parting with assets. I'm not necessarily against doing that but I can't imagine Paul gets much in the way of a return for Paul by himself. I hope I'm wrong.

I think OKC is at a crossroads and could try to create a contender still or do the mini tank.

Create a contender, you currently have CP3, Gallinari, and Adams, that's a really good core but missing good wings but have a lot of assets and could send out Schroder and Roberson with draft picks to add another big player, say overwhelm Washington for Beal or a lesser package for someone like DeRozan. See if Gallinari is open to signing an extension, if not talk to Detroit and Cleveland about what it might take with Gallinari to acquire Blake or Love. CP3, Beal/DeRozan, Gallinari/Blake/Love, and Adams is a strong core for 3+ years and you may still have some solid draft picks to draft younger players or to allow Presti to turn some of the older players into younger guys through trades.

If OKC isn't going to try to contend(which I'm guessing is the case), CP3 needs to be jettisoned. I get not wanting to send out draft picks but not doing so could hurt the team long term. The picks they'd be sending out would probably be non lottery picks(like Miami's) BUT it would allow OKC to lose more games without CP3 which would strengthen OKC's own picks. Is it worth keeping 1 or 2 later 1st round picks and possibly dropping from 5th or 6th in possibly 1 or more to 11th or 12th, I'm not sure you could package a 20th pick with a 11th pick to get into the top 6. Minnesota recently traded the 11th pick and Saric to move up to the 6th pick.

There is no crossroads. Presti has made clear that this team isn't trying to contend. He penned a letter to the fanbase requesting patience for the years ahead.

Also, if Chris Paul is good enough that he's making OKC significantly better, someone will trade for him. It doesn't make sense that this guy is so good he's single handedly leading okc to playoff contention but no one wants him.

[BBallFreak]

My thought is that if OKC and Miami simply swapped out bad contacts then that would be a win for OKC. Getting a positive asset like Winslow would require parting with assets. I'm not necessarily against doing that but I can't imagine Paul gets much in the way of a return for Paul by himself. I hope I'm wrong.

I think OKC is at a crossroads and could try to create a contender still or do the mini tank.

Create a contender, you currently have CP3, Gallinari, and Adams, that's a really good core but missing good wings but have a lot of assets and could send out Schroder and Roberson with draft picks to add another big player, say overwhelm Washington for Beal or a lesser package for someone like DeRozan. See if Gallinari is open to signing an extension, if not talk to Detroit and Cleveland about what it might take with Gallinari to acquire Blake or Love. CP3, Beal/DeRozan, Gallinari/Blake/Love, and Adams is a strong core for 3+ years and you may still have some solid draft picks to draft younger players or to allow Presti to turn some of the older players into younger guys through trades.

If OKC isn't going to try to contend(which I'm guessing is the case), CP3 needs to be jettisoned. I get not wanting to send out draft picks but not doing so could hurt the team long term. The picks they'd be sending out would probably be non lottery picks(like Miami's) BUT it would allow OKC to lose more games without CP3 which would strengthen OKC's own picks. Is it worth keeping 1 or 2 later 1st round picks and possibly dropping from 5th or 6th in possibly 1 or more to 11th or 12th, I'm not sure you could package a 20th pick with a 11th pick to get into the top 6. Minnesota recently traded the 11th pick and Saric to move up to the 6th pick.

There is no crossroads. Presti has made clear that this team isn't trying to contend. He penned a letter to the fanbase requesting patience for the years ahead.

Also, if Chris Paul is good enough that he's making OKC significantly better, someone will trade for him. It doesn't make sense that this guy is so good he's single handedly leading okc to playoff contention but no one wants him.

Oh sure it does.

He's older, due an exorbitant amount of cash, has durability issues, and alienates people he plays with. Paying him $44 million at 37 years of age doesn't seem particularly palatable to me, no matter what he does for you guys in the short term. I didn't come here to troll. I just wanted to see what you guys were saying about all of this. I wish you guys a lot of luck in your rebuild. I've always really liked your team and wish you guys a speedy return to the top of the conference...

[ThunderBolt]

There is no crossroads. Presti has made clear that this team isn't trying to contend. He penned a letter to the fanbase requesting patience for the years ahead.

Also, if Chris Paul is good enough that he's making OKC significantly better, someone will trade for him. It doesn't make sense that this guy is so good he's single handedly leading okc to playoff contention but no one wants him.

Oh sure it does.

He's older, due an exorbitant amount of cash, has durability issues, and alienates people he plays with. Paying him $44 million at 37 years of age doesn't seem particularly palatable to me, no matter what he does for you guys in the short term. I didn't come here to troll. I just wanted to see what you guys were saying about all of this. I wish you guys a lot of luck in your rebuild. I've always really liked your team and wish you guys a speedy return to the top of the conference...

And if all of those bad things happen then we will lose games. Then the fear of OKC being too good to get a good draft pick goes away. This is where I disagree with people. OKC has to pay someone. CP3's salary is irrelevant for us. If Chris Paul is problem and we lose games...oh well. Our punishment is a better draft pick. If he's good and we win games, his value increases. I disagree with these "okc is damned if they do, damned if they dont'" when it comes to CP3.

[BBallFreak]

Oh sure it does.

He's older, due an exorbitant amount of cash, has durability issues, and alienates people he plays with. Paying him $44 million at 37 years of age doesn't seem particularly palatable to me, no matter what he does for you guys in the short term. I didn't come here to troll. I just wanted to see what you guys were saying about all of this. I wish you guys a lot of luck in your rebuild. I've always really liked your team and wish you guys a speedy return to the top of the conference...

And if all of those bad things happen then we will lose games. Then the fear of OKC being too good to get a good draft pick goes away. This is where I disagree with people. OKC has to pay someone. CP3's salary is irrelevant for us. If Chris Paul is problem and we lose games...oh well. Our punishment is a better draft pick. If he's good and we win games, his value increases. I disagree with these "okc is damned if they do, damned if they dont'" when it comes to CP3.

I get your point but what you're not looking at is the fact that he can do quite a bit of damage to a team while you hang onto him. It won't do you a lot of good to have this guy alienating SGA and all those draft picks you've got coming in. Apparently he can be pretty negative and abrasive.

[ThunderBolt]

And if all of those bad things happen then we will lose games. Then the fear of OKC being too good to get a good draft pick goes away. This is where I disagree with people. OKC has to pay someone. CP3's salary is irrelevant for us. If Chris Paul is problem and we lose games...oh well. Our punishment is a better draft pick. If he's good and we win games, his value increases. I disagree with these "okc is damned if they do, damned if they dont'" when it comes to CP3.

I get your point but what you're not looking at is the fact that he can do quite a bit of damage to a team while you hang onto him. It won't do you a lot of good to have this guy alienating SGA and all those draft picks you've got coming in. Apparently he can be pretty negative and abrasive.

We have one guy on this roster we care about, SGA. That's it. He's going to be under contract long after CP3 is gone. If CP3 is that big of a problem, we can send him the way of Noah and banish him. You are talking about CP3 being a problem for players we haven't drafted yet. Seems a little preamutre, no? If you are going to go down that road, you should be concerned that Jimmy Butler will do the same thing in the coming years based on his reputation. Will Jimmy have problem with Herro like he did with KAT? Should someone be moved? I'm not saying CP3 is going to return positive assets but we are in no position of urgency. CP3 is not going to internally destroy the franchise.

[BBallFreak]

And if all of those bad things happen then we will lose games. Then the fear of OKC being too good to get a good draft pick goes away. This is where I disagree with people. OKC has to pay someone. CP3's salary is irrelevant for us. If Chris Paul is problem and we lose games...oh well. Our punishment is a better draft pick. If he's good and we win games, his value increases. I disagree with these "okc is damned if they do, damned if they dont'" when it comes to CP3.

I get your point but what you're not looking at is the fact that he can do quite a bit of damage to a team while you hang onto him. It won't do you a lot of good to have this guy alienating SGA and all those draft picks you've got coming in. Apparently he can be pretty negative and abrasive.

We have one guy on this roster we care about, SGA. That's it. He's going to be under contract long after CP3 is gone. If CP3 is that big of a deal, we can send him the way of Noah and banish him. You are talking about CP3 being a problem for players we haven't drafted yet. Seems a little preamutre, no? If you are going to go down that road, you should be concerned that Jimmy Butler will do the same thing in the coming years based on his reputation. Will Jimmy have problem with Herro like he did with KAT? Should someone be moved? I'm not saying CP3 is going to return positive assets but we are in no position of urgency. CP3 is not going to internally destroy the franchise.

Yeah, again I see your point, but you also have to consider one more huge factor; he's the president of the player's union. Do you really expect him to happily sit on a rebuilding team as his career dwindles into irrelevancy?

He's obviously going to find a way out and he won't make it pretty if you don't accommodate him to a degree. I'm not saying he has to get traded to Miami or that you won't get an asset for him. I'm just saying that expecting him to be part of a rebuilding project at this point is unrealistic.

For the record, I hope you trade him to any place but Miami.

As for Butler, you're right. I am concerned, especially since Bam got kicked off of team USA for supposedly being too immature. But Butler isn't 34 and if we package all our youth for a second star, I'm fine with that. Of course, I also have faith in the structure Miami has in place to rein in Butler's attitude, and grow young players into professionals. Neither here nor there, but you brought up the Miami situation, so...

[ThunderBolt]

I get your point but what you're not looking at is the fact that he can do quite a bit of damage to a team while you hang onto him. It won't do you a lot of good to have this guy alienating SGA and all those draft picks you've got coming in. Apparently he can be pretty negative and abrasive.

We have one guy on this roster we care about, SGA. That's it. He's going to be under contract long after CP3 is gone. If CP3 is that big of a deal, we can send him the way of Noah and banish him. You are talking about CP3 being a problem for players we haven't drafted yet. Seems a little preamutre, no? If you are going to go down that road, you should be concerned that Jimmy Butler will do the same thing in the coming years based on his reputation. Will Jimmy have problem with Herro like he did with KAT? Should someone be moved? I'm not saying CP3 is going to return positive assets but we are in no position of urgency. CP3 is not going to internally destroy the franchise.

Yeah, again I see your point, but you also have to consider one more huge factor; he's the president of the player's union. Do you really expect him to happily sit on a rebuilding team as his career dwindles into irrelevancy?

He's obviously going to find a way out and he won't make it pretty if you don't accommodate him to a degree. I'm not saying he has to get traded to Miami or that you won't get an asset for him. I'm just saying that expecting him to be part of a rebuilding project at this point is unrealistic.

For the record, I hope you trade him to any place but Miami.

As for Butler, you're right. I am concerned, especially since Bam got kicked off of team USA for supposedly being too immature. But Butler isn't 34 and if we package all our youth for a second star, I'm fine with that. Of course, I also have faith in the structure Miami has in place to rein in Butler's attitude, and grow young players into professionals. Neither here nor there, but you brought up the Miami situation, so...

Chris Paul being president of the players union is not a problem for okc. It's a problem for him. He needs to rebuild his reputation if he wants to leave. That won't happen by yelling at Shai and other guys. OKC isn't going to treat Paul like anything less than royalty as long as he doesn't cause problems. There isn't another franchise that caters more to their players than OKC. They'll try to accommodate him but it makes no sense to attach multiple assets to move him.

I could foresee a pick being attached to facilitate something but not a good pick. However you have to remember that there are always GM's that are fighting for their jobs each year and will make a desperate move. Also, injuries leave contending teams searching for answers. I don 't know how things will work out but we've got some time before we need to panic.

[AirP.]

My thought is that if OKC and Miami simply swapped out bad contacts then that would be a win for OKC. Getting a positive asset like Winslow would require parting with assets. I'm not necessarily against doing that but I can't imagine Paul gets much in the way of a return for Paul by himself. I hope I'm wrong.

I think OKC is at a crossroads and could try to create a contender still or do the mini tank.

Create a contender, you currently have CP3, Gallinari, and Adams, that's a really good core but missing good wings but have a lot of assets and could send out Schroder and Roberson with draft picks to add another big player, say overwhelm Washington for Beal or a lesser package for someone like DeRozan. See if Gallinari is open to signing an extension, if not talk to Detroit and Cleveland about what it might take with Gallinari to acquire Blake or Love. CP3, Beal/DeRozan, Gallinari/Blake/Love, and Adams is a strong core for 3+ years and you may still have some solid draft picks to draft younger players or to allow Presti to turn some of the older players into younger guys through trades.

If OKC isn't going to try to contend(which I'm guessing is the case), CP3 needs to be jettisoned. I get not wanting to send out draft picks but not doing so could hurt the team long term. The picks they'd be sending out would probably be non lottery picks(like Miami's) BUT it would allow OKC to lose more games without CP3 which would strengthen OKC's own picks. Is it worth keeping 1 or 2 later 1st round picks and possibly dropping from 5th or 6th in possibly 1 or more to 11th or 12th, I'm not sure you could package a 20th pick with a 11th pick to get into the top 6. Minnesota recently traded the 11th pick and Saric to move up to the 6th pick.

There is no crossroads. Presti has made clear that this team isn't trying to contend. He penned a letter to the fanbase requesting patience for the years ahead.

Also, if Chris Paul is good enough that he's making OKC significantly better, someone will trade for him. It doesn't make sense that this guy is so good he's single handedly leading okc to playoff contention but no one wants him.

As you should know, plans change.

Chris Paul is still a good player but there aren't many teams who makes sense to trade for him. For starters there are teams who are trying to build something and adding a player with a limited window aren't on the same timeline. Those teams who's timeline may align with CP3 don't have the cap space or would have to include key players just to match salaries or... and this is key, adding CP3 could drastically change their team's dynamics(something very good teams may be weary to mess with). Personally I think Presti overplayed his hand thinking he could milk Houston for assets(which he did while getting rid of a longer contract) and also thinking the drop off from Westbrook to CP3 wasn't that great and he'd be able to move him pretty easily(because he knows how interested Miami and maybe Detroit were with Westbrook). If Presti did overplay his hand he may switch course again instead of going forward with a bad plan(rebuilding without getting key top of the lottery picks).