Greater: Kobe Bryant vs Stephen Curry

[GeorgeMarcus]

Curry has won 70% of his playoff games vs Kobe's 61.4%. Curry has averaged more playoff points on way better efficiency. I'm just not seeing why Kobe is the superior playoff performer other than narrative.

Curry's playoff career started in 2013. So he played in 7 playoffs. I think volume holds a weight if this is the topic.
GSW record in the playoffs with Curry; 77W-35L (68.75%) from 2013 to 2019
LAL record in the playoffs with Bryant; 114W-56L (67.06%) from 2000 to 2010

Sure Kobe played alongside with Shaq and the Lakers went 64W-27L (70.33%) in the playoffs when the duo played. Bryant was blessed.
But Curry was also blessed with one of the loadest teams ever with KD's arrival. And his team was capable of going 9-3 in the playoffs without him. And Curry didn't had the lowpoint Kobe had.

I'm not saying Kobe's the better one or Steph's the better one. I'm saying we should wait to see how Curry's career'll play out. And so far, both players have cases for this argument.

I know you are arguing in good faith but my OCD compels me to say: 77-35 is exactly 70% not 68.75 lol

My main beef was that Kobe’s playoff history was being treated like a massive advantage over Steph’s, which just isn’t the case. It’s hard enough arguing that Kobe has any playoff advantage because it’s not backed up by impact data, raw stats or winning%. Only narrative.

[GeorgeMarcus]

If you switch Kobe and Curry on the team that lost to the raptors, do they still lose? I think not.

Yes, by more. That’s why stat geeks love Curry- he impacts winning so demonstrably. It’s not like I haven’t watched all of his playoff games (and all of Kobe’s for that matter). The game informs the numbers and the numbers inform the game.

[dho4ever]

Nah it was fun watching a team that had no business making the playoffs make the playoffs. But seriously why are you and others here I might add derailing the argument that I made that Steph has not been the focus of defenses the way Kobe was when he had only scrubs for teammates therefore Steph has not proven that he can take a team of scrubs by himself to the playoffs.

Im assuming we are discussing 2005-06? The lakers were a 7th seed while having the 6th best record.
It was a good accomplishment but looking at other teams that also made the playoffs, I don't think its surprising.

The 2005-06 Kings (8th seed) best player was Mike Bibby. Peja was injured and played 30 games. Second best player who played meaningful minutes was Brad Miller. And they had 40 games of Ron Artest. That team won 44 games. I fully expect a prime Kobe + Lamar to outperform that team, which they did.

2005-06 Clippers (6th seed) had Elton Brand at his best. 32 games of Corey Maggette. And a 36 year old Sam Cassell. They won 2 more games then the Lakers.

All in all, the Lakers weren't great that year but relative to the middle/bottom seeds of the western conference, they fit in and wasn't significantly worse. The lakers won 45 games that year. Without Kobe, I would say they would be near the bottom at 20 wins or less.
That's about what i would expect a superstar's impact to be. I don't think its an overachievement.

Not saying is an overachievement just saying Steph hasn’t Played with a team of that bad quality therefore going up against that type of Kobe oriented defenses

I was referring to this comment: "Nah it was fun watching a team that had no business making the playoffs make the playoffs."

I don't think they had no business making the playoffs. Given how bad the 6th and 8th seed were, they Lakers roster wasn't terrible relative to those two teams.

[Odinn21]

Curry has won 70% of his playoff games vs Kobe's 61.4%. Curry has averaged more playoff points on way better efficiency. I'm just not seeing why Kobe is the superior playoff performer other than narrative.

Curry's playoff career started in 2013. So he played in 7 playoffs. I think volume holds a weight if this is the topic.
GSW record in the playoffs with Curry; 77W-35L (68.75%) from 2013 to 2019
LAL record in the playoffs with Bryant; 114W-56L (67.06%) from 2000 to 2010

Sure Kobe played alongside with Shaq and the Lakers went 64W-27L (70.33%) in the playoffs when the duo played. Bryant was blessed.
But Curry was also blessed with one of the loadest teams ever with KD's arrival. And his team was capable of going 9-3 in the playoffs without him. And Curry didn't had the lowpoint Kobe had.

I'm not saying Kobe's the better one or Steph's the better one. I'm saying we should wait to see how Curry's career'll play out. And so far, both players have cases for this argument.

I know you are arguing in good faith but my OCD compels me to say: 77-35 is exactly 70% not 68.75 lol

My main beef was that Kobe’s playoff history was being treated like a massive advantage over Steph’s, which just isn’t the case. It’s hard enough arguing that Kobe has any playoff advantage because it’s not backed up by impact data, raw stats or winning%. Only narrative.

LOL? Are you sure you want to go there? Because 77/112 = 68.75%. That's absolute and lol is on you. Try to use a calculator next time, will you.
Like I said, I'm impartial in the conversation. I didn't say the one's better. How you put it favoured Curry like Bryant didn't have a case. I simply stated there's no clear winner.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Curry's playoff career started in 2013. So he played in 7 playoffs. I think volume holds a weight if this is the topic.
GSW record in the playoffs with Curry; 77W-35L (68.75%) from 2013 to 2019
LAL record in the playoffs with Bryant; 114W-56L (67.06%) from 2000 to 2010

Sure Kobe played alongside with Shaq and the Lakers went 64W-27L (70.33%) in the playoffs when the duo played. Bryant was blessed.
But Curry was also blessed with one of the loadest teams ever with KD's arrival. And his team was capable of going 9-3 in the playoffs without him. And Curry didn't had the lowpoint Kobe had.

I'm not saying Kobe's the better one or Steph's the better one. I'm saying we should wait to see how Curry's career'll play out. And so far, both players have cases for this argument.

I know you are arguing in good faith but my OCD compels me to say: 77-35 is exactly 70% not 68.75 lol

My main beef was that Kobe’s playoff history was being treated like a massive advantage over Steph’s, which just isn’t the case. It’s hard enough arguing that Kobe has any playoff advantage because it’s not backed up by impact data, raw stats or winning%. Only narrative.

LOL? Are you sure you want to go there? Because 77/112 = 68.75%. That's absolute and lol is on you. Try to use a calculator next time, will you.
Like I said, I'm impartial in the conversation. I didn't say the one's better. How you put it favoured Curry like Bryant didn't have a case. I simply stated there's no clear winner.

Ahhh now I see, b-ball reference lists 110 starts and 77 wins (70%) but didn’t realize Curry came off the bench for 2 games. So touché on the stat correction. lol indeed

But anyway the “no clear winner” conclusion is good enough to support my claim in the context of the argument. My only point was that Kobe wasn’t the clear winner.

[Danny1616]

If you switch Kobe and Curry on the team that lost to the raptors, do they still lose? I think not.

If the Kobe was switched with Curry, that would make the Raptors defense so much more deadly.

They could just put Kawhi on Klay and Siakim on Kobe with guys like Green, Lowry and Gasol helping.

You can't comprehend how much attention Curry draws from opposing defenses offensively even when he doesn't have the ball.

[CIN-C-STAR]

on ball defense for guards is so overrated in these discussions...the offensive gap between them is wider than defense...there's a reason Stephs impact metrics are infinitely better despite Kobe being a "way better defender"

I made one passing mention of it, and I'm overrating it?
So properly rating defense for you would be, what exactly? Never mentioning it as an aspect of the sport at all?

Btw, Kobe's career offensive win shares is way higher than Curry's. It's not even close. Same with VORP.
Not sure what impact metrics you are referring to. Curry has him beat in OBPM, but that's it.

Can you please not use stats that you don't understand? This post is embarassing.
Win Shares and VORP are accumulative. You literally add them on top of each other, game after game, season after season. Kobe played 20 seasons! Steph is currently headed into his 11th. You can't use VORP or Win Shares for players who played different amount of games. FYI, Curry's win shares per minute are at a higher rate than Kobe's. Use these stats in any equal stretches of their careers, and Steph wins these numbers quite handily.

In terms of the defense thing... Kobe had a way higher ceiling on defense. But anyone who watched 2000s basketball, know that by the mid 2000s, Kobe was done playing defense. You can see if it you watch the games. Kobe loafs like Harden/Melo, but occasionally ball hawks just enough to keep us impressed. If you don't agree, ask Phil Jackson. He claims Kobe stopped playing defense in 2002.

The entire debate. I would bet that Curry eclipses Kobe. They're in the same tier to me right now. But Curry probably has another 5+ seasons, with maybe 3-4 all-nba level ones. He has arguably the highest offensive peak ever, and while he has a late start on Kobe (Kobe was an 18 year old rookie, Steph was 21), I think Steph will climb just a little higher than Kobe.

Of course I used career stats to compare two players. What did you think I would use? The value of their Topps rookie cards?


You can extrapolate out as many future All-NBA selections for Curry as you want, but you can't predict the future so it's completely worthless and doesn't add an iota of intelligence to the debate.
When Curry does it, I'll give him credit for it.

And saying that per/game or per/48 or per/season stats are a better comparison than career numbers is just a way to skew the debate toward Curry. Of course his per/x stats will be better because he is still in his prime. Kobe's per/x numbers were brought down by the end of his career when he was past his prime.

I'm a Spurs fan, btw, and completely agree with those saying Kobe's defense was overrated -- it was also still significantly better than Curry's. Kobe was better on-ball, more versatile, and a better defensive rebounder.
I'm far from some Kobestan, and have been on the "Kobe Hater" bandwagon for a looong time for simply having him outside my top-10 all time. His efficiency was downright bad at times, and his defense was overrated, for sure. He was a media and fan darling and for that he became overrated at one point, though still great, obviously.
But he still had a much longer, more accomplished career (so far), and I give him credit where it's due.
So, please, don't be so insulting when you post. You're embarrassing yourself by coming off as pompous and petty and unable to have a rational debate without resorting to the kind of childish behavior I wouldn't tolerate from my toddler. It's just a basketball forum. Feel free to disagree with me, but trying to denigrate my opinion with insults to pump yourself up is a bit pathetic, tbh.

[Samurai]

Curry is the GOAT player that's 6'3" and under

West is still ahead of him. Again quite clearly.

Agree, but by his own admission West said that he is actually 6-4 and a half. Which is why he appears to be the same height as Kobe when they were photographed side-by-side.

[Onus]

Why do that when the percentage of Kobe making a basket is higher than passing the ball to Kwame Brown and expect him to catch it and make a basket.

Please don't look at Kobe's FG%. You might be disappointed.

Nah it was fun watching a team that had no business making the playoffs make the playoffs. But seriously why are you and others here I might add derailing the argument that I made that Steph has not been the focus of defenses the way Kobe was when he had only scrubs for teammates therefore Steph has not proven that he can take a team of scrubs by himself to the playoffs.

This is such a weird take that has been prevalent throughout this thread.

We literally just watched a finals in which the Raptors one of the best defensive teams of all time literally boxed and 1 Curry. They were sending doubles triples and the whole damn team at curry in the finals not the first **** round. And yes curry was surrounded by scrubs in the finals without kd and a hobbled klay.

Smh such a horrible take.

[SpreeChokeJob]

Went with Curry. He's a better leader. Knowing everything I know about both players if there was a draft I would choose Curry. I would choose Curry in all scenarios except in a one on one basketball game. That's all I choose Kobe for. If it was MJ vs Curry, I choose MJ. If it was Shaq vs MJ, I choose prime Shaq.

[JRoy]

I’ll take the one that can shoot

[Raps in 4]

Curry was a much better offensive talent. Kobe was a much better defender.

I'd go with Curry as his offence was on another level. He basically changed the way the game is played. The entire league had to adapt to stop Curry and the Warriors.

[Bornstellar]

I think Kobe is one of the most overrated players in NBA history honestly. But even still, he's at worst a top 10-15 player of all-time. His resume is pretty decorated and is far more impressive than Curry. Steph had a higher peak, and not many players aside from Jordan, Wilt, or Shaq were as dominant as he was offensively in 2016, but his failure to get one FMVP in 3 attempts is a huge blemish. His playoff runs also tend to be less impressive than his regular seasons. I also think Kobe is incredibly overrated on defense, because he has way more all defense selections than he should. But he was an elite defender when he was young, and Curry, while not bad by any means on D, will never be anything aside from maybe slightly above average on D.

So yeah, I like Steph's game more, but right now this is definitely Kobe. I don't see Curry putting together anymore 2016 runs or winning anymore rings at this point unless Giannis goes to GS in 2021

[Raps in 4]

I think Kobe is one of the most overrated players in NBA history honestly. But even still, he's at worst a top 10-15 player of all-time. His resume is pretty decorated and is far more impressive than Curry. Steph had a higher peak, and not many players aside from Jordan, Wilt, or Shaq were as dominant as he was offensively in 2016, but his failure to get one FMVP in 3 attempts is a huge blemish. His playoff runs also tend to be less impressive than his regular seasons. I also think Kobe is incredibly overrated on defense, because he has way more all defense selections than he should. But he was an elite defender when he was young, and Curry, while not bad by any means on D, will never be anything aside from maybe slightly above average on D.

So yeah, I like Steph's game more, but right now this is definitely Kobe. I don't see Curry putting together anymore 2016 runs or winning anymore rings at this point unless Giannis goes to GS in 2021

Kobe won 3 rings playing with prime Shaq, a top-5 player all-time.

[ProcessDoctor]

Not a Kobe fan at all, but his two-way impact gives him the edge. Steph is the better offensive player, but the gap isn’t big enough to say he’s greater.

[PistolPeteJR]

How can people even vote Curry here? Those who did either didn’t understand the original question or have absolutely no respect for longevity and CAREER.

The question was not “who will end up as being greater than the other”. Geez guys, come on.

It’s Kobe right now and it’ll take Curry having a few more terrific seasons before this is a discussion.

FWIW, I think Curry has a good chance of overtaking Kobe in the AT rankings when all is said and done with his career, and I really don’t like Kobe. Respect to an ATG though.

[PistolPeteJR]

I think Kobe is one of the most overrated players in NBA history honestly. But even still, he's at worst a top 10-15 player of all-time. His resume is pretty decorated and is far more impressive than Curry. Steph had a higher peak, and not many players aside from Jordan, Wilt, or Shaq were as dominant as he was offensively in 2016, but his failure to get one FMVP in 3 attempts is a huge blemish. His playoff runs also tend to be less impressive than his regular seasons. I also think Kobe is incredibly overrated on defense, because he has way more all defense selections than he should. But he was an elite defender when he was young, and Curry, while not bad by any means on D, will never be anything aside from maybe slightly above average on D.

So yeah, I like Steph's game more, but right now this is definitely Kobe. I don't see Curry putting together anymore 2016 runs or winning anymore rings at this point unless Giannis goes to GS in 2021

I agree with most of what you said except for the ending. I could definitely see Curry having similar regular seasons to ‘16.

[OdomFan]

Kobe was great on both ends of the floor so him. If Curry improves at defense than maybe but I find that highly doubtful.

[NZB2323]

I'll take Curry's peak over Kobe's, but Kobe has so much longevity on Curry.

Curry has made 5 all-NBA teams; Kobe has made 15.

[Impuniti]

Who the hell knows who is going to be, we need to see what Curry does in the next few seasons. As of right now, it's clearly Kobe.