So why hasn't Kawhi gotten any flack for colluding?

[Lunartic]

Can someone explain whats wrong with "colluding" ? I'm not a fan of the NBA becoming less competitive but Leonard just wanted to play at home with a fellow great player. He didn't stack the deck like Bron did with Miami or Durant did with Golden State.

The league is probably at it's most wide open its been in years.

Rockets
Bucks
Philly
Lakers
Clippers
Nuggets/Blazers

All have a shot at getting to the finals

Leonard has paid his dues to the Spurs and Raptors. He gave them the ultimate prize and when it was time to leave, he left.

Spurs fans are understandably unhappy but get over it. He was a crucial part of winning you a championship. And for all the posters attempting to portray Leonard as just a cog in the wheel that won that title, why are you so vitriolic if he was so unimportant? I can't imagine being too upset if Kris Dunn of the Bulls asked for a trade to his homestate team.

Furthermore, answer this; If the Spurs decided to trade Leonard against his wishes for Doncic and KP, would you have the same angst directed towards the Spurs GM? Why is it so utterly dreadful for a player to request a trade to another team after paying his dues, but so fine if the team trades them mid-contract for an upgrade? Why can't players ever upgrade?

"bu- but he led the team on by lying about his injury!"

There's zero evidence that he was healthy and painfree. This is evidenced by his constant rest days with the Raptors and how quickly his body was breaking down during the postseason.
Even if you believe he lied about his injury and sat out the entire season out of protest, okay fine, that's the worst thing Leonard has done.

Raptors fans have absolutely zero reason to hate him. He came, he conquered, he left. Your team wasn't winning anything, ever without someone like him. Chuckrozan wasn't winning you anything. You guys need to retire his jersey. Not only did you guys win a Title but you beat literally the greatest team ever assembled (with some key injuries), it's one of the great post season runs in NBA history and it's all because of Leonard.

[Bigfactsstackz]

Can someone explain whats wrong with "colluding" ? I'm not a fan of the NBA becoming less competitive but Leonard just wanted to play at home with a fellow great player. He didn't stack the deck like Bron did with Miami or Durant did with Golden State.

The league is probably at it's most wide open its been in years.

Rockets
Bucks
Philly
Lakers
Clippers
Nuggets/Blazers

All have a shot at getting to the finals

Leonard has paid his dues to the Spurs and Raptors. He gave them the ultimate prize and when it was time to leave, he left.

Spurs fans are understandably unhappy but get over it. He was a crucial part of winning you a championship. And for all the posters attempting to portray Leonard as just a cog in the wheel that won that title, why are you so vitriolic if he was so unimportant? I can't imagine being too upset if Kris Dunn of the Bulls asked for a trade to his homestate team.

Furthermore, answer this; If the Spurs decided to trade Leonard against his wishes for Doncic and KP, would you have the same angst directed towards the Spurs GM? Why is it so utterly dreadful for a player to request a trade to another team after paying his dues, but so fine if the team trades them mid-contract for an upgrade? Why can't players ever upgrade?

"bu- but he led the team on by lying about his injury!"

There's zero evidence that he was healthy and painfree. This is evidenced by his constant rest days with the Raptors and how quickly his body was breaking down during the postseason.
Even if you believe he lied about his injury and sat out the entire season out of protest, okay fine, that's the worst thing Leonard has done.

Raptors fans have absolutely zero reason to hate him. He came, he conquered, he left. Your team wasn't winning anything, ever without someone like him. Chuckrozan wasn't winning you anything. You guys need to retire his jersey. Not only did you guys win a Title but you beat literally the greatest team ever assembled (with some key injuries), it's one of the great post season runs in NBA history and it's all because of Leonard.

Cause he obviously became the teams best player after the 2014 season

[PKABOOICU]

I hate Kawhi for not coming to the Lakers because they're my team, but I respect Kawhi for a few things-

1. I love the way he plays on the court. He's one of the few superstars who knows his limits in what he can and cannot do. He's just a "sound" overall player.

2. He got traded, and he helped deliver a Championship to the Raptors, which very likely may be the only ring they ever win.

3. Coming to my Lakers would have made the league totally unfair, and he knew that. He didnt want that. He wanted to "lead" a team to a championship. He knew he was gonna be 2nd or even 3rd fiddle to Lebron/AD because he's not as outspoken. He wouldnt have gotten the respect he deserved here....a lot like what happened to Pau Gasol during his tenure in LA.

4. For his brand and legacy, the Clippers just made more sense. He has an opportunity that he stands for. He can deliver the franchise's first ring here. If the Lakers and Nike are the top dogs, he's just the type of person who would rather have the Clippers and New Balance....hes content with it, and he's up for the challenge.

[SFour]

But he IS ring chasing! I'm not sure why people don't see that as WORSE when he has 2 already....but he totally is ring chasing.

If he was REALLY ring chasing he would've joined the Lakers......KD was a ring chaser when he joined the stacked 73 win Warriors. If Kawhi joined the Lakers to form a superteam then I would consider him a real ring chaser.

He joined a way better team than the lakers.

Lebron-AD-Kawhi would've been an automatic championship, similar to the KD Warriors (only injuries would stop them).....Kawhi isn't guaranteed a championship on the Clippers.

[XxIronChainzxX]

Can someone explain whats wrong with "colluding" ? I'm not a fan of the NBA becoming less competitive but Leonard just wanted to play at home with a fellow great player. He didn't stack the deck like Bron did with Miami or Durant did with Golden State.

I'm going to stop you right there. One, most people think LAC are the favourites to win. But two, Kawhi tried to get a better star to team up with him: KD. He's just not been successful. Three, the issue with players colluding is that it **** over teams and their fanbases.

[dhsilv2]

If he was REALLY ring chasing he would've joined the Lakers......KD was a ring chaser when he joined the stacked 73 win Warriors. If Kawhi joined the Lakers to form a superteam then I would consider him a real ring chaser.

He joined a way better team than the lakers.

Lebron-AD-Kawhi would've been an automatic championship, similar to the KD Warriors (only injuries would stop them).....Kawhi isn't guaranteed a championship on the Clippers.

We'll just have to disagree then.

[SFour]

He joined a way better team than the lakers.

Lebron-AD-Kawhi would've been an automatic championship, similar to the KD Warriors (only injuries would stop them).....Kawhi isn't guaranteed a championship on the Clippers.

We'll just have to disagree then.

So you think the current Clippers team is better than a Lakers team built around Lebron-AD-Kawhi.....the Clippers aren't a superteam right now...whereas the Kawhi Lakers would've been a superteam, which is why I didn't want Kawhi to go there because it would ruin the league once again.

[dhsilv2]

Lebron-AD-Kawhi would've been an automatic championship, similar to the KD Warriors (only injuries would stop them).....Kawhi isn't guaranteed a championship on the Clippers.

We'll just have to disagree then.

So you think the current Clippers team is better than a Lakers team built around Lebron-AD-Kawhi.....the Clippers aren't a superteam right now...whereas the Kawhi Lakers would've been a superteam, which is why I didn't want Kawhi to go there because it would ruin the league once again.

Again disagree...not sure what more to say here. A team with 3 max players and zero bench, zero depth, and 3 stars where I don't expect to see all 3 together in the playoffs is far from "super". Add in I hate the fit for those 3.

[Lunartic]

Can someone explain whats wrong with "colluding" ? I'm not a fan of the NBA becoming less competitive but Leonard just wanted to play at home with a fellow great player. He didn't stack the deck like Bron did with Miami or Durant did with Golden State.

I'm going to stop you right there. One, most people think LAC are the favourites to win. But two, Kawhi tried to get a better star to team up with him: KD. He's just not been successful. Three, the issue with players colluding is that it **** over teams and their fanbases.

Leonard/KD < KD/Curry/Dray/Klay or Bron/Wade/Bosh

So my point stands, if Leonard wanted some uber-stacked team he would have joined the Lakers. He wanted a very good team in his hometown. The Clippers are not the unquestionable favorites to win the title. Check out the vegas odds.

Colluding in the sense of wanting to choose your workplace and when the time is right, actively pursuing that? I understand breach of contract by way of refusing to dress or putting up 2fga and playing poorly. It's akin to saying employees shouldn't apply for other jobs because it screws over the stockholders of the current company. You may not like it, but there's nothing inherently wrong or unethical about wanting to work elsewhere.

[Sandman88]

We'll just have to disagree then.

So you think the current Clippers team is better than a Lakers team built around Lebron-AD-Kawhi.....the Clippers aren't a superteam right now...whereas the Kawhi Lakers would've been a superteam, which is why I didn't want Kawhi to go there because it would ruin the league once again.

Again disagree...not sure what more to say here. A team with 3 max players and zero bench, zero depth, and 3 stars where I don't expect to see all 3 together in the playoffs is far from "super". Add in I hate the fit for those 3.

As opposed to what?

PG, Lou will and Trezz?? with no play-makers. Clips are mad overrated. Especially with the injury concerns surrounding their 2 stars.

[Lunartic]

We'll just have to disagree then.

So you think the current Clippers team is better than a Lakers team built around Lebron-AD-Kawhi.....the Clippers aren't a superteam right now...whereas the Kawhi Lakers would've been a superteam, which is why I didn't want Kawhi to go there because it would ruin the league once again.

Again disagree...not sure what more to say here. A team with 3 max players and zero bench, zero depth, and 3 stars where I don't expect to see all 3 together in the playoffs is far from "super". Add in I hate the fit for those 3.

Lebron is an ironman and always shows up for the playoffs, Leonard with enough rest is one the great of all time playoff performers and AD has been healthy as of late and shown up big in the postseason.

Those three, surrounded by some vets taking minimums and ringchasers would easily dismantle the NBA. Who would be able to beat them?

[XxIronChainzxX]

Can someone explain whats wrong with "colluding" ? I'm not a fan of the NBA becoming less competitive but Leonard just wanted to play at home with a fellow great player. He didn't stack the deck like Bron did with Miami or Durant did with Golden State.

I'm going to stop you right there. One, most people think LAC are the favourites to win. But two, Kawhi tried to get a better star to team up with him: KD. He's just not been successful. Three, the issue with players colluding is that it **** over teams and their fanbases.

Leonard/KD < KD/Curry/Dray/Klay or Bron/Wade/Bosh

So my point stands, if Leonard wanted some uber-stacked team he would have joined the Lakers. He wanted a very good team in his hometown. The Clippers are not the unquestionable favorites to win the title. Check out the vegas odds.

Colluding in the sense of wanting to choose your workplace and when the time is right, actively pursuing that? I understand breach of contract by way of refusing to dress or putting up 2fga and playing poorly. It's akin to saying employees shouldn't apply for other jobs because it screws over the stockholders of the current company. You may not like it, but there's nothing inherently wrong or unethical about wanting to work elsewhere.

Those teams don't exist. If Kawhi + healthy KD are on the Clippers, that team facerolls the NBA. No one is even close to them. He's failed to rig the game through circumstances, not for lack of trying.

NBA players aren't office workers. They get paid tens of millions - hundreds of millions as stars - and work in an entirely different economy under a collective bargaining agreement. They don't get to choose where to go except in very limited cases, and undermining the league for personal glory is absolutely sanctionable.

Also, this gloss about Kawhi wanting to go home only exists because the Raptors won the title. Until that point it was mainly about how Kawhi wanted to win, and even Doc is on the record that all Kawhi cares about in their meeting is winning.

Millionaire NBA superstars aren't office workers. Analogies to that are silly.

[Yogatti]

NBA players aren't office workers. They get paid tens of millions - hundreds of millions as stars - and work in an entirely different economy under a collective bargaining agreement. They don't get to choose where to go except in very limited cases, and undermining the league for personal glory is absolutely sanctionable.

Also, this gloss about Kawhi wanting to go home only exists because the Raptors won the title. Until that point it was mainly about how Kawhi wanted to win, and even Doc is on the record that all Kawhi cares about in their meeting is winning.

Millionaire NBA superstars aren't office workers. Analogies to that are silly.

Kawhi was a free agent and he chose to play with the Clippers in live in LA.

[SFour]

So you think the current Clippers team is better than a Lakers team built around Lebron-AD-Kawhi.....the Clippers aren't a superteam right now...whereas the Kawhi Lakers would've been a superteam, which is why I didn't want Kawhi to go there because it would ruin the league once again.

Again disagree...not sure what more to say here. A team with 3 max players and zero bench, zero depth, and 3 stars where I don't expect to see all 3 together in the playoffs is far from "super". Add in I hate the fit for those 3.

Lebron is an ironman and always shows up for the playoffs, Leonard with enough rest is one the great of all time playoff performers and AD has been healthy as of late and shown up big in the postseason.

Those three, surrounded by some vets taking minimums and ringchasers would easily dismantle the NBA. Who would be able to beat them?

3 superstars on 1 team = superteam.....that should be fairly obvious. Doesn't matter how top heavy they are, especially when Lebron is the king of recruiting buyout players and colluding with teams like the James Jones' Suns.

[Lunartic]

Those teams don't exist. If Kawhi + healthy KD are on the Clippers, that team facerolls the NBA. No one is even close to them. He's failed to rig the game through circumstances, not for lack of trying.

That is not my point. My point is that parity has somewhat been restored with the fall of the Miami 3 and the more recently Snakey + friends. Those teams were able to dominate the league and only really lost due to injuries/father time.

Leonard and PG can't take over the league like those teams did, partly because other teams have improved and partly b/c they aren't good enough. Being in the West also presents problems.

NBA players aren't office workers. They get paid tens of millions - hundreds of millions as stars - and work in an entirely different economy under a collective bargaining agreement. They don't get to choose where to go except in very limited cases, and undermining the league for personal glory is absolutely sanctionable.

It's contract work. Leonard was a free agent and thus, free to choose where he goes.
PG requested a trade. OKC could have easily said nope but instead they received a treasure trove in return, which is exactly how the NBA is supposed to work.

Also, this gloss about Kawhi wanting to go home only exists because the Raptors won the title. Until that point it was mainly about how Kawhi wanted to win, and even Doc is on the record that all Kawhi cares about in their meeting is winning.

Leonard was discussed wanting to go home to LA when he was on the Spurs. We all want to go home. Lebron did, Wade did, Curry said he wants to, etc. Obviously winning is important as well, perhaps more important. Does not change the fact that he could have gone to any team in the NBA, some of which already had superstars to play with. He chose his hometown.

Millionaire NBA superstars aren't office workers. Analogies to that are silly.

Really? I had no idea. Clearly you are unable to see the comparison I am making in terms of an employee wanting to leave his company. Players have zero obligation to fan's feelings, only to the contract they have signed. There are mechanisms to deal with players that breach contract. Leonard did no such thing.

[XxIronChainzxX]

Those teams don't exist. If Kawhi + healthy KD are on the Clippers, that team facerolls the NBA. No one is even close to them. He's failed to rig the game through circumstances, not for lack of trying.

That is not my point. My point is that parity has somewhat been restored with the fall of the Miami 3 and the more recently Snakey + friends. Those teams were able to dominate the league and only really lost due to injuries/father time.

Leonard and PG can't take over the league like those teams did, partly because other teams have improved and partly b/c they aren't good enough. Being in the West also presents problems.

NBA players aren't office workers. They get paid tens of millions - hundreds of millions as stars - and work in an entirely different economy under a collective bargaining agreement. They don't get to choose where to go except in very limited cases, and undermining the league for personal glory is absolutely sanctionable.

It's contract work. Leonard was a free agent and thus, free to choose where he goes.
PG requested a trade. OKC could have easily said nope but instead they received a treasure trove in return, which is exactly how the NBA is supposed to work.

Also, this gloss about Kawhi wanting to go home only exists because the Raptors won the title. Until that point it was mainly about how Kawhi wanted to win, and even Doc is on the record that all Kawhi cares about in their meeting is winning.

Leonard was discussed wanting to go home to LA when he was on the Spurs. We all want to go home. Lebron did, Wade did, Curry said he wants to, etc. Obviously winning is important as well, perhaps more important. Does not change the fact that he could have gone to any team in the NBA, some of which already had superstars to play with. He chose his hometown.

Millionaire NBA superstars aren't office workers. Analogies to that are silly.

Really? I had no idea. Clearly you are unable to see the comparison I am making in terms of an employee wanting to leave his company. Players have zero obligation to fan's feelings, only to the contract they have signed. There are mechanisms to deal with players that breach contract. Leonard did no such thing.

I'm not going to respond piecemeal. Parity being restored is an accident, not the intention. The intent was to create a superteam: it simply failed for lack of interest. Kawhi does not get credit for being worse at it than LeBron or KD, anymore than LeBron gets credit for being worse at it than KD.

An NBA player is not a contractor. I mentioned the CBA for a reason: it actually governs the nature and type of contracts and contractual obligations that can be set up, and that is ignoring the franchise element of the NBA and the general role of the league office in regulating team and player behaviour in the league's interest.

PG was under contract, and there is clear evidence that Kawhi, having agreed to a deal in principle with LAC, had reached out to PG to convince him to demand a trade to LAC to form a superteam. There are gaps in the NBA tampering rules, but even if it wasn't a breach legally, it's certainly one 'ethically' by the rules were arguing re player collusion.

The NBA isn't designed to permit players to conspire with one another and to hold teams hostage. It's the inevitable consequence of the current set up, but talking about it as an intended feature of the league is absurd.

It's why the Spurs were up in arms about the Kawhi situation to start, as were the Pacers about the Lakers obvious attempts to solicit PG.

Finally, yes, your analogy to office work is absurd. They are not employees leaving a company when they switch teams. At best - and this isn't a good analogy - they're switching departments. Leaving the company is quitting the NBA, and those players can actually do what they want (subject to terms in their NBA contracts that apply on departure).

[XxIronChainzxX]

Those teams don't exist. If Kawhi + healthy KD are on the Clippers, that team facerolls the NBA. No one is even close to them. He's failed to rig the game through circumstances, not for lack of trying.

That is not my point. My point is that parity has somewhat been restored with the fall of the Miami 3 and the more recently Snakey + friends. Those teams were able to dominate the league and only really lost due to injuries/father time.

Leonard and PG can't take over the league like those teams did, partly because other teams have improved and partly b/c they aren't good enough. Being in the West also presents problems.

NBA players aren't office workers. They get paid tens of millions - hundreds of millions as stars - and work in an entirely different economy under a collective bargaining agreement. They don't get to choose where to go except in very limited cases, and undermining the league for personal glory is absolutely sanctionable.

It's contract work. Leonard was a free agent and thus, free to choose where he goes.
PG requested a trade. OKC could have easily said nope but instead they received a treasure trove in return, which is exactly how the NBA is supposed to work.

Also, this gloss about Kawhi wanting to go home only exists because the Raptors won the title. Until that point it was mainly about how Kawhi wanted to win, and even Doc is on the record that all Kawhi cares about in their meeting is winning.

Leonard was discussed wanting to go home to LA when he was on the Spurs. We all want to go home. Lebron did, Wade did, Curry said he wants to, etc. Obviously winning is important as well, perhaps more important. Does not change the fact that he could have gone to any team in the NBA, some of which already had superstars to play with. He chose his hometown.

Millionaire NBA superstars aren't office workers. Analogies to that are silly.

Really? I had no idea. Clearly you are unable to see the comparison I am making in terms of an employee wanting to leave his company. Players have zero obligation to fan's feelings, only to the contract they have signed. There are mechanisms to deal with players that breach contract. Leonard did no such thing.

I'm not going to respond piecemeal. Parity being restored is an accident, not the intention. The intent was to create a superteam: it simply failed for lack of interest. Kawhi does not get credit for being worse at it than LeBron or KD, anymore than LeBron gets credit for being worse at it than KD.

An NBA player is not a contractor. I mentioned the CBA for a reason: it actually governs the nature and type of contracts and contractual obligations that can be set up, and that is ignoring the franchise element of the NBA and the general role of the league office in regulating team and player behaviour in the league's interest.

PG was under contract, and there is clear evidence that Kawhi, having agreed to a deal in principle with LAC, had reached out to PG to convince him to demand a trade to LAC to form a superteam. There are gaps in the NBA tampering rules, but even if it wasn't a breach legally, it's certainly one 'ethically' by the rules were arguing re player collusion.

The NBA isn't designed to permit players to conspire with one another and to hold teams hostage. It's the inevitable consequence of the current set up, but talking about it as an intended feature of the league is absurd.

It's why the Spurs were up in arms about the Kawhi situation to start, as were the Pacers about the Lakers obvious attempts to solicit PG.

Finally, yes, your analogy to office work is absurd. They are not employees leaving a company when they switch teams. At best - and this isn't a good analogy - they're switching departments. Leaving the company is quitting the NBA, and those players can actually do what they want (subject to terms in their NBA contracts that apply on departure).

[Jcity08]

I hate Kawhi for not coming to the Lakers because they're my team, but I respect Kawhi for a few things-

1. I love the way he plays on the court. He's one of the few superstars who knows his limits in what he can and cannot do. He's just a "sound" overall player.

2. He got traded, and he helped deliver a Championship to the Raptors, which very likely may be the only ring they ever win.

3. Coming to my Lakers would have made the league totally unfair, and he knew that. He didnt want that. He wanted to "lead" a team to a championship. He knew he was gonna be 2nd or even 3rd fiddle to Lebron/AD because he's not as outspoken. He wouldnt have gotten the respect he deserved here....a lot like what happened to Pau Gasol during his tenure in LA.

4. For his brand and legacy, the Clippers just made more sense. He has an opportunity that he stands for. He can deliver the franchise's first ring here. If the Lakers and Nike are the top dogs, he's just the type of person who would rather have the Clippers and New Balance....hes content with it, and he's up for the challenge.

Raptors get a playoff spot: "Raptors are a treadmill team"
Raptors make the playoffs 5 years in a row: "Raptors will never go deep in the playoffs"
Raptors got to the ECF twice: "Raptors will never get to see the Finals"
Raptors get to the Finals: "Raptors arent winning a championship"
Raptors won a championship: "They very likely won't win another"
....
If the Raptors win another championship: "I said they weren't going to win another but now I'm 100% certain they wont win another because reasons(unsubstantiated bull****)"

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

It's crazy to think that this off-season, Lebron basically pulled Davis out of NO and Kawhi pulled George out of OKC.

The league has a major problem on it's hands.

That's not a problem, that's a good thing. We don't need another Kevin Garnett wasting his entire career away and finally getting 1 ring only for his body to break down the following season. As long as the league is balanced, its perfectly fine. Kevin Durant to Warriors is bad, the battle of LeBron/AD vs Kawhi/George is amazing.

That's what free agency is for, this isn't that.

This is different, these are guys under contract. This isn't a good thing, this is something else.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

It's crazy to think that this off-season, Lebron basically pulled Davis out of NO and Kawhi pulled George out of OKC.

The league has a major problem on it's hands.

That's not a problem, that's a good thing. We don't need another Kevin Garnett wasting his entire career away and finally getting 1 ring only for his body to break down the following season. As long as the league is balanced, its perfectly fine. Kevin Durant to Warriors is bad, the battle of LeBron/AD vs Kawhi/George is amazing.

That's what free agency is for, this isn't that.

This is different, these are guys under contract. This isn't a good thing, this is something else.

LeBron vs Kawhi the two greatest small forwards of all time are facing off in the same city during the western conference finals and both have equal sidekicks. That's not a good thing? You shouldn't be watching basketball than. The best players should be on the best teams! As long as there's not a heavy favorite like 2017/2019 Warriors and the league is still unpredictable.